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Advice really needed...please

 
  

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Saint Keggers
14:31 / 11.04.04
This is why I stick to drinking.
 
 
+#'s, - names
15:14 / 11.04.04
Keith,
Man, this sucks. There seemed to be such hope in your text last night on instant messanger. It looks like you got served. Sorry to hear that. Don't let this ruin your Easter celebration of God's ownly begotten son rising from the grave to prove to us that we can all find eternal love and happiness in the host of our heavenly father.
 
 
pomegranate
15:43 / 11.04.04
keith it's hard to see right now but they are doing you a favor. you don't want to get involved with this girl, you already know what she's like! even if she ever was yr girlfriend, who knows if she'd be off kissing some other dude.
i'm sorry you had to go through all this. stay strong.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:52 / 11.04.04
Dude, she's fucking a man and getting engaged to him and teasing your cock at the same time. Get the fuck away from her before she drives you to suicide and laughs about it.
 
 
warm hearted harlot
20:39 / 11.04.04
Keith, she's using you in the worst possible way, asking you to be her back up?! keeping you on a string just in case her commitment-phobic boyfriend doesn't deliver (which is what she'll continue to do, every now and then dropping you little treats to keep you onside.) Speaking from a female point of view, let me tell you a little known secret: women can be total bitches.
 
 
w1rebaby
20:51 / 11.04.04
What you need is friends who will slap you if you even look like going anywhere near her, secretly block your phone from calling her or receiving calls from her, and perhaps encourage one of you to leave the country.

You should not, under any circumstances at all including dismemberment and impending doom, have any contact whatsoever with this woman again.

It's been said before of course, which is why you need determined friends, or maybe hypnosis or a chip that gives you electric shocks.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:04 / 11.04.04
Man, this shit is better than The O.C.!
 
 
w1rebaby
21:13 / 11.04.04
Surely nothing could be better than that.

Better than The Apprentice, maybe.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:21 / 11.04.04
But it's just like The O.C., except that as far as I know Keith isn't a sensitive thug from Chino.
 
 
w1rebaby
22:11 / 11.04.04
Hmm. I think we need pictures if we're going to make an informed decision here.
 
 
Baz Auckland
00:38 / 12.04.04
I'll join in the chorus of "even if she ends up with you, you could just be the 'boyfriend' instead of 'the other man' the next time this happens!"

RUN AWAY!
 
 
xdfddgd
00:49 / 12.04.04
Keith ur a sad twat.
 
 
xdfddgd
00:49 / 12.04.04
Get a life.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
01:34 / 12.04.04
Another of your friends, Keith?
Or just a wanker?

Seriously, it's been said a gazillion times, and a gazillion times better, but GET THE FUCK OUT. THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE AND THE ROOF IS COLLAPSING.

And this: I really truly don't think she is maliciously and purposely abusing me or using me

is completely fucking irrelevant.

Yup, like pretty much everyone else, I've been there too. And you need to run like fuck.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
02:41 / 12.04.04
i think he is some wanker, yes.

has a bit of a point, though.

get the fuck out is good advice, and that's certainly how i was feeling today on my way to parent's for easter.

i'm never going to just be able to cold turkey drop this girl tomorrow, so let's say "get the fuck out" is a long term goal.
 
 
Mazarine
03:10 / 12.04.04
Keith, you wouldn't happen to have a reason to move anytime in the near future, would you? You need to be at least five or six hours driving distance from this girl. If you can put some physical distance between you and her, well, absence doesn't always make the heart grow fonder. If you're able to be out of her sphere of influence, it'll give you the chance to meet someone spiffy and single.

I see from your profile that you're in Cleveland. Nashville's eight hours away, New York city is seven, Denver is a solid twenty, Seattle is thirty-five. Vancouver is thirty-eight.

Who knows, this could be the start of a magnificent new branch in your life.

If this is not feasable/something you'd want to do, oh well, never mind. Just an idea.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
03:25 / 12.04.04
Why not move to California?

CALIFORNIA!

HERE WE COME!
 
 
Mazarine
04:29 / 12.04.04
Right back where we started from.

Sorry. Couldn't help it.
 
 
Fist Fun
09:59 / 12.04.04
Getting out and dating people and avoiding this girl would be my advice. But loads of others have said similar stuff.
 
 
Morlock - groupie for hire
15:56 / 12.04.04
Been said many times before, but you have to hit 'eject' on this one. Deliberately or no, she's feeding your heart into the cuisinart, and nobody should put up with that.

Save. Yourself. Do it now. Every one of your posts makes it clear how much this tears you up. Start by deciding that enough is enough. Get that fixed in your head, and work from there. The girl is fucked up. In the most favourable light, she's worried her relationship is going to implode, and sending you through hell just so that she has a standby if it does. She does not have that right.
You want to do the right thing, treat her properly, as a friend or as whatever, that's very commendable, but she claims to be your friend too. Let her carry some of the weight for a bit.

*Sigh* From what you've posted, you've done all the right things so far. Well, mostly, anyway. But she's not giving you any kind of support. Do not go to her for this, but if she shows up again playing anything but the platonic friend, sit her down and ask her to explain what, exactly, she wants from you. Accept no bullshit. Make sure her response is solidly grounded in your feelings and her behaviour so far.
Most likely, she'll have about as much success as you've had, thus proving your point. Then explain to her, again, that you need her to shit or get off the pot.

If that still doesn't get the message across, move. Or buy a gun.

Mind you' that's just my opinion.
 
 
Ganesh
16:03 / 12.04.04
It's slightly pointless giving advice here; you have advice in bucketloads. It's taking the advice that's your problem, and no-one here can help you with that.

Perhaps it'd be worthwhile considering whether you have some sort of deeper-seated masochistic/exhibitionistic need to a) still be chasing this frankly dead duck, and b) still sharing the gory (and faintly humiliating) details with us?
 
 
fluid_state
16:25 / 12.04.04
Some of us get to a state where we crave love/affection/positive attention and yet cannot concieve of why we recieve it (for whatever reason; 7/10 people will knee-jerk and call it "low self-esteem", but that's way too simplistic for me). When we want it, we chase it, when we get it, we try to keep it, and when it's kept, it's usually done so on a leash. I dunno; it sounds like this girl is going to keep bouncing between positive stimuli, of which you seem to be the most reliable and consistent. What happens when you get her? You're going to be a paranoid wreck, dude; As mentioned above, how long is it going to take before she starts ditching you for new and more exciting affection? how many nights are you going to be home alone, wondering if/who she's kissing? It's not going to take long for your vast and intimate knowledge of her behaviour to wise you up to some essential questions. And I think you'll be so ecstatic to be with her, so terrified of losing her, and so damn determined to make it work, that you'll spend the next X span of years.... exactly where you are right now. Do what you have to, but do it in an "away"-style direction, before you find yourself waking up next to her, wandering over to the computer, and reposting the last 4 pages verbatim. The worst part is that it will probably all feel new.

I don't know what she needs to treat you like a human being. I have my doubts that you, or any other upstanding and empathic creature can provide it while being so emotionally attached to her.

(disclaimer: this may all be good news)
 
 
Tryphena Absent
16:33 / 12.04.04
Frankly Keith you're screwing yourself up and you're wilfully aiming for emotional self destruction despite masses of advice and your own knowledge that you seek involvement with a woman who wants to marry another man. So I'm going to go further than Ganesh- you should strongly consider yourself a candidate for psychoanalysis.
 
 
Char Aina
16:34 / 12.04.04
Then explain to her, again, that you need her to shit or get off the pot.


she's not the only one needing to hasten her excretion.

just fucking DO cold turkey.
the anticipation of doing so is much more potent than the act itself, and you will be surprised how easy it is once you have.
 
 
fluid_state
17:11 / 12.04.04
You've got five pages of people, relative/total strangers, interested and deeply concerned. Ditch the broad that can't be bothered. And don't bring her here.
 
 
Seth
20:48 / 12.04.04
Keith: i'm never going to just be able to cold turkey drop this girl tomorrow

What stops you? What would your life be like if you could?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:37 / 12.04.04
OK.

This may sound harsh.

That's because it is.

And harsh is what you need right now.

COLD TURKEY.

Do I need to spell that out?

It starts with a "C". Figure the rest out yourself.

Seiously, man... there's two ways of looking at this.

1)- you are fucked up over this. She is fucked up over this.

2)- you are fucked up over this. She isn't fucked up over this.

Do you see where the two models coincide? (Venn diagrams'd do it better, but I can't do them here).

Again, like most people in this thread, I've been there. So I also guess you're probably gonna ignore most advice, as people generally do. Make your own mistakes and all that.

BUT...

please, please, please get the fuck OUT. It'll hurt... boy, it'll hurt like FUCK for a while... but it won't hurt anywhere near as much as the big "Hurt me bad, please" ad you're otherwise sticking on your back.



Although I have to add this disclaimer- Stoatie's relationships ALWAYS end badly.

Disclaimer to the disclaimer- Stoatie never follows his own advice.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:41 / 12.04.04
For the love of God... no, for the love of Keith, please please please get out of this. This woman plainly can't see the almightly mess she's making out of your head.

She doesn't love you, man. She may want to love you, but that's not the same thing. She may not be a bad person, but she plainly doesn't understand the impact her behaviour is having on the people around her.

Cutting her out of your life might seem unthinkable right now, but I guarantee that after a couple of months you'll start to wonder what the heck you were clinging onto.

I've been you. I've been her. It happens.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:41 / 13.04.04
well...yes. getting out would be the best thing. but, cmon, anyone who has read this thread or has been here pretty much knows THAT's not going to happen.

however, i'm pretty sure after overhearing half of a conversation in my car today that she most likely has convinced the tool to move back here and get a new job.

this will not only kill any interest in her, but will also immediately kill our friendship.

evil thought: i've found that i can play this girl as much as she plays me. leave her alone for a bit = phone rings. don't answer phone = invitation. hands off = kissy face.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
01:45 / 13.04.04
also, i'd just like to say that i don't think she is a bad person or even unaware of how this affects me. we've discussed it, and she has said many a time that she feels awful. she has offered numerous times to cut our time together back or off for a time if that will help.

of course, i'm the whiney puss that can't go through it. but i'm starting to develop this amused bitterness over the past day or two. i don't hate her, and i would like to maintain our friendship, but the pedestal is quickly starting to suffer from mold.
 
 
Char Aina
02:26 / 13.04.04
well, you've annoyed me.
sorry, but this is going to be harsh.

anyone who has read this thread or has been here pretty much knows THAT's not going to happen.

so you started this thread in the hopes that we would validate your position of inaction? or what? was it just to get a response, to feed the ego, show yourself that people can be manipulated into caring about this 'keith' you say you are?

i personally am getting annoyed at you for making us invest emotion in you and then demonstrating that you dont even need the care we showed.

its kinda like what you say she does to you.



however, i'm pretty sure after overhearing half of a conversation in my car today that she most likely has convinced the tool to move back here and get a new job.

because she fancies him, and you are not in a position to tell her not to. she is not your wife of an open marriage, she is your friend. it is her business, when all is said and done.

this will not only kill any interest in her, but will also immediately kill our friendship.

i hope so.
but.
is there anything to your side of the friendship beyond frustrated love?


evil thought: i've found that i can play this girl as much as she plays me. leave her alone for a bit = phone rings. don't answer phone = invitation. hands off = kissy face.

and in doing so, you are playing yourself. not a judgement, just a word of warning.


also, i'd just like to say that i don't think she is a bad person or even unaware of how this affects me. we've discussed it, and she has said many a time that she feels awful. she has offered numerous times to cut our time together back or off for a time if that will help.

i'm sorry, but i dont see how this is important. there are people who cause harm even though they say they dont mean to. some of them even mean what they say.

harm is still caused.


of course, i'm the whiney puss that can't go through it. but i'm starting to develop this amused bitterness over the past day or two. i don't hate her, and i would like to maintain our friendship, but the pedestal is quickly starting to suffer from mold.


the initial sheen of your lust/love/crush is fading.
its like when you were a kid and people said you would get over it, but you didnt want to believe them.

personally i dont think you should hate her. i believe much of the problem has been your inability to deal with her rejection, and your need to turn your relationship into one of friendship rather than some girl/some boy who know each other.

you wanted to matter to her as much as she mattered to you, and you thought that friendship might be a way to develop that kind of meaning. that doesnt work.

well done on getting this far, but she still doesnt fancy you. nor will she.






(all of the above of course subject to the usual warning about it being my own very special brand of bullshit, and as such available for your dismissal.)
 
 
Baz Auckland
02:26 / 13.04.04
Time will heal all... or kill all I guess... If your thinking things like the above, it seems you're getting better.

Don't play her like she has played you... that will just make her an evil virus that has infected you with relationship nastiness!

...and don't let this turn you bitter in general... it seems like you're keeping a sense of humour about it all though. Das ist gut...
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
03:04 / 13.04.04
i started this thread out of utter desperation for a somewhat impartial opinion. i got that. realized i was incapable of actually doing what the vast majority of people recommended. then, i left it alone for awhile. until i started weeping like a ninny this weekend, and posted thoughtlessly.

i also probably wanted people to give me tips on how to 'win' the girl. totally dumb, i know.

at this point all i want is to not make an enemy, not be a total shit to her, and learn to go on with my life, and possibly keep a friend, but i know that isn't likely.

maybe this entire breakup and get back together is the kick in the ass i needed. if she was professing her desire for me in the past couple weeks, finally breaks up with the boyfriend, then gets back together a couple days later....well, there's really no hope for me, is there?

and yeah, it's most likely true she doesn't like me at all. not sure what her deal is. maybe just loneliness.

of course, this is total bullshit cause i know how weak i am, and i know how quickly i will crumble and doubt my course the next time some affection is thrown my way.

i need some other affection, i think.

um. toksik, i will go away now if that is what you like. thanks for the advice, and i'd probably remind you that, just like the television, you can turn the internet off when it annoys you. don't necessarily have to do the elvis and shoot it.
 
 
Char Aina
03:19 / 13.04.04
keith, i was afraid you would say that.
i dont want you to go away, i dont hate you, i dont think you are in any way worth less than any of the other people on this site.

toksik, i will go away now if that is what you like.

no, it isnt. don't be a dafty.
babies and bathwater, innit.


thanks for the advice, and i'd probably remind you that, just like the television, you can turn the internet off when it annoys you. don't necessarily have to do the elvis and shoot it.


i know that. cheers for the reminder, but you have missed the gist of what i was saying.(perhaps trying to say)
i was 'tough loving' you, not hating on you.
i genuinely like your online persona, and was concerned for you.

i was annoyed in the same way a parent is when you play with matches anyway, y'know? except that you came to us with the matches first, and said "are these dangerous dad?" and upon being told "yes. definitely" went and played with them anyway.

not only were you warned, but you knew before you were what we would say. after we had said it repeatedly, you still hadnt listened.



i am NOT annoyed ecause you used barbelith to sort out your problem. for my part, it was time willingly given.
i dont mind helping people out if i can.
i'm annoyed because it seems like you are not being honest, either with us or yourself. this lack of honesty has got in the way of fixing this for you, and i am trying to show you that.


seriously, it may sound dumb, but i am saying all i say from a place of love.
i care, and that care is the only reason this topic has bugged me.




so, no.
i cant just turn off the internet, because you are someone i care about. not as much as my mum, sure. but i still care.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
03:34 / 13.04.04
aw jeez toksik, now i feel bad! thanks...means a lot that you didn't take my snottiness to heart and ream me. sorry...i'm in a mildly ornery mood tonight.

here's my problem: i hear the advice, i know it is *probably* correct and what i should do.

i just can't do it. yet. one of my friends keeps saying i can't do it cause i haven't gotten pissed enough. i'm sad, yes, but sadness just makes me desperate and just makes me want to salvage it.

i need some kind of tangible betrayal. for all i know she DOES actually like me and it DOES actually worry her and make her upset (like she tells me). for all i know she is being honest when she says she thinks about me or misses me or whatever.

in any case, she has made a decision to go back to him and that more than anything tells me i have no hope, so it's time for me to get over it and get on with my life.

to that end, i just sent an email to a girl that a friend told me about and said might be interested. i sat on it for the past couple weeks because things WERE going really well with the other girl. but...i have to move on, i have to finally consider that there are in fact other girls out there and this one, my friend, is not the one for me. it will probably ruin our friendship in the end (even though...she says no matter what she will always be my friend because i mean so much to her and she cares so much about me.)

oh well. i will keep you posted if anyone is actually interested.
 
  

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