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Barefoot Doctor gets a kicking

 
  

Page: 1234(5)6

 
 
Goodness Gracious Meme
17:28 / 27.07.05
Urban Warrior? I don't think so.

*This* is an Urban Warrior, fucko.

 
 
mondo a-go-go
22:18 / 27.07.05
More authentic than sexy, though probably Whisky Priestess will be along in a moment to disagree. Sexily.
 
 
Charlie's Horse
23:06 / 27.07.05
I made the mistake of reading the last page whilst drinking a glass of soy milk. Sexily, of course, with all the appropriate slow sips and drawn-out lip licking, but I was too busy sobbing with laughter and spraying it out of my nose.

Fortunately, it was still a very sexy moment, just a trifle more bukkakesque than I'd planned.
 
 
Madman in the ruins.
09:23 / 31.07.05
Ditto the above with Coffee.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
10:41 / 28.01.07
Aw, shame.

The 'Barefoot Doctor'... ...has been forced to issue an extraordinary statement admitting to having sex with ex-patients in the past...

'They were fans, people who would say, "I love your writing and you are so sexy" and in a weak moment [you say], "That's nice, tell me about you..." It wasn't coming from sick people asking for help. What they are doing is trying to twist it around to make it look like that. It's very similar to if you were a fan of a pop star.'


Tumshieheid.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
10:46 / 28.01.07
I don't know about anyone else, but I find this part-

They were fans, people who would say, "I love your writing and you are so sexy"

makes me incredibly pessimistic about the human condition.
 
 
Ganesh
10:55 / 28.01.07
It would seem, then, that the way ahead for doctors wishing to shag their patients without reprisal is to acquire some small measure of 'celebrity'. Because then it's okay.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:29 / 28.01.07
To be scrupulously fair, Ganesh, he isn't a doctor. Never has been. As such, unless there is a British Unqualified Fake Medical Association, he can't really be struck off anything.

Well, I say that. I suppose he could be struck off a bridge or a narrow mountain pass, in strict correctness. But I don't think that would be very loving.

So, was he a bareback doctor?
 
 
Triplets
11:31 / 28.01.07
Well, we know he was a barenaked doctor.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:42 / 28.01.07
Things I like:

1) The Observer is quick to point out that it no longer employed him at the time he was sexing up the damaged, as if their prescience and wisdom had motivated them to think "better drop the Webfoot Doctor - our statistical analysis model suggests he's going to start getting high on his own supply within three years.

2) Doctor Barefoot himself claiming that the sex only happened after he had stopped practising. Stopped practising what exactly?
 
 
Ganesh
11:48 / 28.01.07
Yeah, I'm well aware of his not-a-real-doctorness. What surprises me is that he himself doesn't seem to be making that point in his defence; instead, he's making a somewhat iffy distinction between people-who-want-treatment wanting to shag him and people-who-don't-want-treatment wanting to shag him for reasons not connected to his 'doctor' status (his 'celebrity' being, presumably, entirely disentanglable from any sort of claims of being a provider of 'therapy'). Exploiting people as a 'celebrity' is readily distinguishable from and more acceptable than exploiting people as a 'doctor' - or so his argument appears to run.

As justification, this wouldn't work for doctory doctors and, as the linked article suggests, increasingly it may not work for complementary 'doctors'.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:08 / 28.01.07
Well, quite. I think it's just important to state as often and as loudly as possible that he is not a real doctor.

I'm surprised he isn't claiming that his semen has ayurvedic healing properties, myself.
 
 
Ganesh
12:13 / 28.01.07
I doubt it's long enough for internal kidney massage.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
12:14 / 28.01.07
Shit. That vial I got of eBay cost me a tenner too.
 
 
Tsuga
12:22 / 28.01.07
Those kind of live probiotics only work fresh, anyway. Delivered internally through just about any warm orifice.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:27 / 28.01.07
And let's not forget "sexily".
 
 
Mourne Kransky
12:28 / 28.01.07
i.e. whilst rotating in a clockwise motion
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:39 / 28.01.07
Yeah, I'm well aware of his not-a-real-doctorness. What surprises me is that he himself doesn't seem to be making that point in his defence

I suppose he can't, really. "Yeah I shagged my patients but it's all right--I'm a big ol' FAKE!" isn't much of a defence.
 
 
Ganesh
12:41 / 28.01.07
I suppose he can't, really. "Yeah I shagged my patients but it's all right--I'm a big ol' FAKE!" isn't much of a defence.

It kind of is... but it's possibly not one he'd relish.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:59 / 28.01.07
It is a defence in the sense that a real doctor* could get done for this, and BFD** probably can't. Also in the sense that a real doctor*** actually DOES something--studies for years, provides treatments that are proven to be effective, makes oaths and binding legal agreements not to shag patients etc--and therefore has more responsibility than BFD****. But I'd argue that from a purely ethical perspective it's one of the shittest defences ever.




*Unlike BFD

**Not a real doctor

***Which BFD isn't

****Still not a real doctor.
 
 
Ganesh
13:07 / 28.01.07
But I'd argue that from a purely ethical perspective it's one of the shittest defences ever.

Well, yes, no argument there. "They wanted to shag celebrity-me rather than pretendy-healer-me" ain't too hot either.

Wonder what ol' Barefoot's up to these days?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:24 / 28.01.07
So, was he a bareback doctor?

I really fucking hope not. I'd hate to think of BFD* spreading his seed around and creating a hideous tribe of half-BFD, half impressionable Gawd-help-us progeny. Oh shit, they'd all be Indigo Children, wouldn't they..? Well, bang goes my hope of a restful sleep tonight.



*You know real doctors, yeah? Well he's not one!
 
 
Triplets
13:36 / 28.01.07
Bare Faux-Doctor.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
13:56 / 28.01.07
'It wasn't coming from sick people asking for help.'

As if ...
 
 
Alex's Grandma
14:37 / 28.01.07
But what am I talking about? Negative energy, I guess.

Negative energy = bad.

For a reasonable consideration, I, or one of many charming assistants at "Grandma's Centre For Buddhist Healing", will be able to cure you of what ails you, you negative people.

It'll only hurt for a little while, honest.
 
 
penitentvandal
20:07 / 28.01.07
HA HA HA HA HA

I was going to try and write a serious, considered reply here, but, just...

HA HA HA HA HA

Honestly, what a prick.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:15 / 28.01.07
The only reason I am not HAHAing also is just that, well... much as I like watching the smarmy quack squirm, there's the civilian casualties to consider. People who, while doubtless deeply stupid and probably very annoying if you met them, haven't actually, you know, burned down an orphanage or anything, have had the BFD's* winkle in them. Imagine the shame.



*BFD != MD
 
 
penitentvandal
20:23 / 28.01.07
Yeah, when you think about it seriously, obviously, it's actually disgusting and exploitative and, frankly, he should be sent to prison for it, the dishonest, manipulative bastard.

But on the other hand, he's right up bad karma creek without a chakra to commune with, so it's that that I'm laughing at.

I always knew BFD was Outer Church all the way through, though, the git.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
20:41 / 28.01.07
They were fans, people who would say, "I love your writing and you are so sexy"



Picture yourself sitting under a large, friendly tree, leaning up against its sturdy trunk. Looking up at its many branches, you notice the leaves are actually BASE FLATTERY
 
 
penitentvandal
20:47 / 28.01.07
Don't you dare compare that hideous bastard BFD to that morally upstanding friend of humanity Gaius Baltar, you cad!
 
 
Alex's Grandma
21:02 / 28.01.07
People who, while doubtless deeply stupid and probably very annoying if you met them, haven't actually, you know, burned down an orphanage or anything, have had the BFD's* winkle in them. Imagine the shame.

I think that, maybe, when you say that kind of thing about the BFD's alleged indiscretions, you're possibly tapping into a lot of negative energy from a past life, which you need to let go of.

I sense that there a lot of positives in your world - there many, many positives in everyone's world, unless they say bad things about the BFD, in which case, there aren't.
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
21:31 / 28.01.07
Exploiting people as a 'celebrity' is readily distinguishable from and more acceptable than exploiting people as a 'doctor' - or so his argument appears to run.

So, is your contention that, if you are either a doctor, a faux-doctor or a "celebrity" (whatever that is defined as), then shagging people necessarily equals exploiting them?

That seems kind of dodgy to me - after all, the people involved, however gullible and (allegedly) "vulnerable" (which is one of those words that people tend to define to mean whatever they want it to mean), are all consenting adults.

The whole "it's unethical for doctors and patients to have sexual relationships with each other" thing is highly contentious for me anyway (and feels rooted in a rather puritanical, anti-sex concept of ethics). It also seemingly leads to some rather bizarre situational ethics - for example, if you are the only doctor in a small village, and everyone there is your patient, you aren't allowed to have sex with anyone in your village. Or, if your spouse is a doctor, and you have an "embarrassing" health problem, perhaps in a part of your body that you don't feel comfortable with anyone other than your spouse looking at or touching, but according to this ethical system ze is the only doctor not allowed to treat you...

I'm very aware of the power-relationship issues, but i also tend towards the opinion that it's impossible to have any sexual relationship entirely without power issues, and therefore that such relationships are better off with power acknowledged than with power unacknowledged (yes that's probably stepping into the territory of several Head Shop threads).

The logical conclusion of your ethical position would seem to be that all doctors, all faux-doctors and all celebrities should remain celibate...

I think shagging his "patients" is about the only thing that the "Barefoot Doctor" does that i don't despise him for...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:45 / 28.01.07
What you say has merit, but I think you need to read the article a bit more closely. The BFD didn't just happen to end up in sexual situations with people he just happened to have met in the normal run of his life. He actively predated women who'd come to him for help. At least one woman contacted him as a therapist, with a view to obtaining help for her condition, only to find that he started putting the moves on her. This was a guy exploiting his position.
 
 
Ganesh
21:55 / 28.01.07
So, is your contention that, if you are either a doctor, a faux-doctor or a "celebrity" (whatever that is defined as), then shagging people necessarily equals exploiting them?

Not sure about the second two but it's certainly the GMC's contention that shagging one's patients equals exploiting them.

That seems kind of dodgy to me - after all, the people involved, however gullible and (allegedly) "vulnerable" (which is one of those words that people tend to define to mean whatever they want it to mean), are all consenting adults.

Legally, yes, they very probably are. As my patients would be if I shagged them.

In the context of markedly imbalanced power dynamics, "consenting" is also something of a slippery term.

The whole "it's unethical for doctors and patients to have sexual relationships with each other" thing is highly contentious for me anyway (and feels rooted in a rather puritanical, anti-sex concept of ethics). It also seemingly leads to some rather bizarre situational ethics - for example, if you are the only doctor in a small village, and everyone there is your patient, you aren't allowed to have sex with anyone in your village.

I have a certain sympathy for that position, and I think the GMC would too. I think single-doctor practices are pretty rare, these days, and I'd be surprised if the situation arises that often.

Or, if your spouse is a doctor, and you have an "embarrassing" health problem, perhaps in a part of your body that you don't feel comfortable with anyone other than your spouse looking at or touching, but according to this ethical system ze is the only doctor not allowed to treat you...

OMIGOD!! I've applied ointment to Xoc's back!

Again, I think the GMC would have a degree of flexibility here, partly because it's accepted that doctors will occasionally treat friends and family. If it were a regular thing to the extent that one's spouse were not registered with a GP and depended on one for all their medical care, then I'd see that as more dodgy.

The other direction - embarrassing problem patient becomes partner - is somewhat iffier...

I'm very aware of the power-relationship issues, but i also tend towards the opinion that it's impossible to have any sexual relationship entirely without power issues, and therefore that such relationships are better off with power acknowledged than with power unacknowledged (yes that's probably stepping into the territory of several Head Shop threads).

Yes, it is. Perhaps you want to start a thread there?

The logical conclusion of your ethical position would seem to be that all doctors, all faux-doctors and all celebrities should remain celibate...

The logical extension perhaps - although I don't think I've embraced quite the ethical position you've attributed to me, merely commented on the distinction that Barefoot makes in relation to the distinction the GMC makes (and looks like narrowing in the future).

The logical extension of your argument is that it's absolutely fine for doctors to have sex with their patients so long as they're adult and consenting, the power imbalance of the therapeutic relationship counting for nothing.

I think shagging his "patients" is about the only thing that the "Barefoot Doctor" does that i don't despise him for...

I despise him for it, because I think that whether he acknowledges the GMC-formalised boundaries of a UK doctor or a more nebulous 'healer' role, sex with what are essentially groupies carries a whiff of exploitation. For me, anyway.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:00 / 28.01.07
The whole "it's unethical for doctors and patients to have sexual relationships with each other" thing is highly contentious for me anyway (and feels rooted in a rather puritanical, anti-sex concept of ethics).

Neh. Don't really agree with you there. A doctor is alone with his patients, has a lot of contact with their bodies, is in a position of trust and authority. I for one feel a lot safer and more willing to seek treatment knowing that should my doctor get grabby he would face strong sanctions.

It also seemingly leads to some rather bizarre situational ethics - for example, if you are the only doctor in a small village, and everyone there is your patient, you aren't allowed to have sex with anyone in your village.

I kind of don't have a problem with that, really. Yeah, it might be restrictive, but it's not like your village is the last place on Earth.

Or, if your spouse is a doctor, and you have an "embarrassing" health problem, perhaps in a part of your body that you don't feel comfortable with anyone other than your spouse looking at or touching, but according to this ethical system ze is the only doctor not allowed to treat you...

But if a doctor could treat hir spouse, I can see that opening up all kinds of potential for abuse. Misleading the spouse about the nature of hir illness, prescribing inappropriate medication, or acting to worsen the condition out of a desire to control hir or out of malice. Nah, I can see that going all kinds of wrong.

I'm very aware of the power-relationship issues, but i also tend towards the opinion that it's impossible to have any sexual relationship entirely without power issues

Arguably. But the kind of dramatic power imbalance between the doctor and hir patients is fairly rare in the normal run of things.


The logical conclusion of your ethical position would seem to be that all doctors, all faux-doctors and all celebrities should remain celibate...


I don't see how that is the case. If I meet a guy at a party and he just happens to be a doctor, and we hit it off as two adult peers socialising, that's very different than my going to the same guy to help me with a medical condition and having him hit on me.
 
  

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