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Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men #151 (Spoilers...WTF!?)

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21:31 / 14.01.04

Ok... to dissect this a little more:
We have Kick (Tattoo smells a secret lab of it in the Riot arc), we have the future apocaylptic version of the Beast, we have the Weapon Plus plant within the mansion (Dr Sublime ran Weapon Plus who may or may not be John Sublime's father/brother/uncle etc), we have Beast trying to put Emma back together totally consumed with paranoia that he's under suspicion, John Sublime knew Emma's fracture spot after that episode in his office when she was punched on her nose (it never really was explained how Esme controlling Angel knew where to shoot Emma to break her).

There's more but its all vague conjecture. There must have been connection between the Weapon Plus program and Magneto (nano-sentinels etc) and a connection had been mentioned between Sublime and Cassandra. Not forgetting who was after Xorn ( ie Magneto) in his fake Chinese prison.

Also we have TWO Sublimes...
John Sublime:
Leader of the U-men a group of humans who wanted mutant abilities by taking their body parts. See Germ Free Generation TPB for more info.
He was basically a cult leader specialising in body modification with religious (we shall inherit the earth kinda stuff) overtures.
Presumed dead after Martha (the brain in a jar) made Emma drop him out of his office window. Recently presumed alive in Weapon X where Chamber is out to find him.

Doctor Sublime:
Appears in Assualt on Weapon Plus as the mastermind behind the program (sorta). Its only a name but it connects one of the first arcs to one of the last arcs.

There is very little we actually know about either John or Doctor Sublime.

Its late and my mind is rushing at a million miles an hour now.
I'll come back in the morning with more theorising.

I just hope this is a real spoiler cus I'd be quite disappointed if he wasn't Sublime now!

21:39 / 14.01.04

At the same time I am actually hoping that its not some big: "ah Beast was Sublime ALL ALONG!" moment... like with Magneto.

It would destroy another of my favourite characterisations.

00:04 / 15.01.04

John Sublime appears to be alive, judging by a preview of Weapon X I accidentally saw today.

Just so you know.

10:18 / 15.01.04

Hmm, it appears that full and expansive responses to comments by myself and anyone else who doesn’t think this comic is very good appear to be absent, instead dismissed out of hand with the use of the word ‘haterz’, which is rather lost on me, though it does appear to suggest that the person it’s applied to hates everything as a matter of course, which seems a bit personal.
What a pity.

14:40 / 15.01.04

OK, now that the spoiler/speculation is out - are we saying that Beast has ALWAYS been Sublime for most of Grant's NXM? Or that, at a specific point, they switched places or Sublime took the Beast's place?

I think far more likely is that in the future of "Here Comes Tomorrow," the Beast we know & love is dead and somehow, at some point, Sublime got some Beastie DNA and injected himself with it, just like they said he has access to pretty much all mutant powers/DNA/combos.

00:02 / 16.01.04

Perhaps Sublime is a para identity created by Beast/The Beast/Apocalypse

00:14 / 16.01.04

DaveBCooper:
I think it's more an issue of people simply feeling 'To each their own'. If you don't like Morrison's writing on the X-Men, you are most certainly not alone (and no, I don't mean the newsarama or x-fan or herorealm people) - I don't think it can be argued that it doesn't have significant flaws as it stands.

But your post is largely an opinion one, to which people can only reply with 'I agree!' or 'I disagree!'. It's a bit disengenuous to put down folks on this thread because they didn't respond to your thoughts, though I may be reading into it a bit oddly.

01:37 / 16.01.04

Hello, My name is Oblivion and I´ll like to introduce myself to the forum.
Anyway, lets get on topic, the question is not what´s happening but..what´s going to happen?
If Xavier is retired and Cyclops doesnt want anything to do with the
x-men..how will they restart the academy, how is all this going to affect our current timeline.

any rumors?

02:46 / 16.01.04

Could the two Sublimes be the same person? IIRC Dr Sublime is bald, and when John is thrown out the window, his toupee comes off. Also, John is the head of Sublime Pharmaceuticals: quite possible he is a Dr or somehting, and that it even may have been acknowledged in the script.

Love the idea of John being future Beast. Why graft mutant body parts, when you can grow your own mutant bodies. And if that Apollyon the Destroyer bloke is flying around with the Third Species symbol on his chest, it could mean that the U-Men are in charge or very influential.

13:54 / 16.01.04

Oblivion: There are SEVERAL potential people who could start up the academy withoout Cyclops' help. The student body is tighta nd would only need a strong role model to cling to in order to establish a new school. Storm, Nightcrawler, or maybe Beast would be the right person in that case.

Brett: The advantage of culling mutant parts for human transplantation is you simultaneously get rid of one potential threat and build several loyal minions. It's win/win. In Apocalypse's strategy, it also builds competition for the who's fittest game. The strongest mutants will avoid being culled, and strong humans will respond favorably to transplantation. If Apocalypse also engineered Sublime Pharmaceuticals, then Kick also kills off weak mutants and accelerates crises caused by "disaster" mutations.

I'm in love with the Horsemen idea and Apocalypse as the toxic aggression. if it doesn't come out later that the Sentinels are Pestilence, Weapon Plus is War, Magneto is Famine, and that Phoenix is Death, we ought to compile an annotated version of the run that characterizes the role of each in the story.

I'm VERY interested in the motivations of the Homo Perfectus of the future. It's obvious they're practically unstoppable, and serve a "misunderstood" purpose. I'd be surprised if it actually ISN'T Hank McCoy in white fur. How do you suppose Henry plans to "save" the human genome from extinction? Perhaps by using nano-sentinels to graft mutant genomes into their DNA? Then isn't everyone SLIGHTLY transhuman? Beast becomes Sublime by circumstance, not possession

17:06 / 16.01.04

Interesting tid-bit:

The Beak of Here-comes-tomorrow is actually the Grandson of the Original Beak (as per his interview in WIZARD).

Could this BEAST be a decendant of the "original?"

I'm liking the idea that this BEAST is actually the result of someone using the stolen DNA database on themself.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:41 / 16.01.04

Well, if I ignore the fact that I used to read X-Men comics some ten years ago then this isn't awful. I've quite liked Morrisons last few issues and this one from a character-led point of view but as an action story it's still all over the place. When he's reaching towards the climax Grant often writes as though he's thinking 'aaah, I explained everything in that issue that came between 144 and 145, so I don't need to rehash it here!' I'm dubious as to whether he's going to tie everything from his run up into a scheme that makes sense before he leaves, all he has to do is have these future X-Men go back to The World, put everything in reverse and go back in time to today, he doesn't need to explain why certain X-Men are still alive in the future, he doesn't need to explain why Beast is evil, he doesn't need to explain what was in Wolverine's files, he doesn't need to explain... and so on. Selectively ignoring 40 years of convuluted history I can accept, not explaining something you wrote six months ago...

So, ignoring pretty much all the X-Men is about or stood for (So Xavier has made his resignation official. So all the mutants in the world will have to learn for themselves how to use their powers, and we could have the sort of apocalyptic future which makes Days of Future Past look like MASH with a laugh-track? Nice one baldy.) this was a fun issue. For future issues I predict that as Morrison reaches the event horizon of his own implausibility there will be actual pages left blank in which, like with all the off-screen action that we haven't seen the for the last year and a half, we'll just have to guess what's going on. The last issue will be completely blank.

20:12 / 16.01.04

Well, it's not the first time (and probably not the last) that Chuck has stepped down. As for the future of the School, we'll have to sort out the present, first. I'm sure this dystopian future will get "burned away", but how far back will this burning go? To the end on #150? Or, maybe to where Xorn is addressing the class, provoking Dust, and everything hits the fan?

E

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:29 / 17.01.04

It's a real shame, because if Grant went back to writing comics like he did three or four years ago then I'd be really interested to see him continue on the title, with Chuck retired from the frontline of X-action (maybe working behind the scenes in X-Corp, another idea from his first few years that Morrison seems to have forgotten about) and the X-Men becomming what he said they were going to be, a mutant search-and-rescue unit, with perhaps Cyclops and Emma as it's main runners, he for the action, she for the school side...

Doesn't that sound like it would rock? Shame we're not going to get it...

Matthew Fluxington

16:54 / 17.01.04

Somebody else might do that, Flowers.

I think it's a shame that Grant didn't stay for longer to flesh out all of his ideas, but I don't mind that he went for the X-Men's Greatest Hits approach. In a way, it could be better that he planted all of the ideas and didn't follow through - it means that it gives something for future writers to play with. He's done a lot to change of the direction of the franchise as a whole, which was part of the intention to begin with.

20:13 / 17.01.04

I doubt Grant planned on leaving Emma in complete charge of things, anyway. Look at what a Frost Administration has lead to in the current storyline. Maybe at some point she'll grow enough to be able to, but the Cuckoos had her pegged, "all shiny surface with nothing, underneath", "just nasty jokes and cleverness". She doesn't seem to have learned anything, since.

Or, to put it another way, as funny as the leads on Ab Fab are, would you want those two characters in charge of anything important? Emma pretty well IS the Joanne Lumley character.

E

Regrettable Juvenilia

15:58 / 18.01.04

Sometimes I read these threads and wonder if I've been reading the same comic. If you really think Emma is just nasty jokes and cleverness after issues #139 and #150...

A

02:54 / 19.01.04

Yeah, you're totally overlooking the cleavage.

Seriously, though, there are still three issues to go, and i'm sure that at least some of these dangling plot threads will be tied up in those. If they're not, then I'll start getting all grouchy on the internet.

04:33 / 19.01.04

Yeah, I read those issues. They explain how her screwed up childhood has made her the way she is, but she doesn't seem to have grown any, since. Her attitude and comments in 151 show that.

E

Our Lady Has Left the Building

12:17 / 19.01.04

Go easy, Cyclops has had problems for forty odd years...

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