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The Good, the Banned, and the Ugly

 
  

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..
23:42 / 21.09.03
I haven't posted here in a while, and honestly, I don't have any allegiance to any member or group of members (imaginary or not) on the board. But I found out today(in response to semi-monthly email I sent him) that my friend mod/godog/x/whoever has been banned from Barbelith, along with a few others, including his fiance, who assumably didn't do anything offensive besides being associated with him.

I find myself having to choose my words very carefully now, which is kinda wierd. I'm used to being careful like this on the religious site I post at, not Barbelith. As a safegaurd: if you don't see me reply to this post in the future - then I too have been silenced. (I hope "silenced" isn't too strong a word, like "fascist" for instance, but if I disappear, that's what it would be, no?)

Basically, I just want to say that I know mod in real life, one of the few people who do here, and to say (since he can't do it himself) that in my opinion he said nothing to deserve banishment. He does have the tendancy to fly off the handle at times, especially when he believes he's right, and I believe it's his right to do so.

So what should constitute banning from a freedom-loving board like Barbelith? Spamming would be a good reason imo, but I don't think mod's deleted posts could be considered spam. They were probably a bit obsessive and confrontational, but hey, sometimes people get excited. Was he banned because he seemed to single out Haus as an enemy? He believes it's in self-defense. An idea - how about a thread reserved only for Haus and Mod, so they can duke it out, mano e mano? It would reduce the tendancy to use the word "clique" maybe. And the rest of us could watch on and laugh, or cheer on our favorite opponent. Eventually it might even solve the problem they seem to have with each other. I dunno, this seems like it could've been a better option than booting people out.

So, was it right to ban mod and the others, and why?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
00:00 / 22.09.03
Who else was banned?
 
 
bio k9
00:06 / 22.09.03
If you don't see me reply to this post in the future - then I too have been silenced.

Or maybe you just decided to quit posting and make it look like you've been silenced. You're not gonna fool me twice, Magneto!

Also, was his fiance really a member here? I'm curious because membership has been closed for some time and over in this thread M3 makes it sound like his fiancee has never been to Barbelith:

Of course—without even knowing her—some will now think v. poorly of one of the kindest, greatest, and most beautiful (in and out) people I have ever met (we’ve been together for going on 6 yrs. now) simply because (aside from them being complete idiots) she’s wit e.

If shes a member we've surely "met" her as much as any of you have "met" me, no?
 
 
Char Aina
00:12 / 22.09.03
i know you a good deal better than you know me, however.

would you agree?

you can only really consider yourself to have met someone online if there has been interaction, i reckon. a bit of back and forth.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
00:16 / 22.09.03
Spamming's a good reason, yes? Then I presume he decided to leave out the bit about how he decided to spam this forum? And how he decided to openly go against board policy by using a second suit to continue said spamming when his first hit the daily posting limit? In that case he must also have missed out the bit about asking Knowledge to join him in what I guess was supposed to be some kind of takeover bid for the board which, even if only a joke, was a monumentally idiotic thing to do.

I seriously doubt that anyone else has been kicked off the board recently, other than Andrew and his suits of many colours. Has *mod* even been banned? Not that I'm particulalry fussed either way after the last week, but maybe we should wait for Tom to confirm that's actually happened and that this isn't just another of his attempts to Fuck Shit Up before this turns into yet another of those god-awful "Why'd you kick Knowledge off the bord? He didn't do anything wrong" back-and-forth threads.
 
 
..
01:28 / 22.09.03
Spamming's a good reason, yes? Then I presume he decided to leave out the bit about how he decided to spam this forum? And how he decided to openly go against board policy by using a second suit to continue said spamming when his first hit the daily posting limit?

That was a long time ago no? The modzilla stuff? I don't think it could be called spam, since it wasn't intended as anything more than a statement - as loud a statement as possible, which is mod's style sometimes - it wasn't trying to sell anything, or advertise anything, except sarcastically. If the board found it an act worthy of banishment they would have done so at that time.

Still, I'm not the one to be defending mod here, he himself is, and I could be totally wrong as to what his intentions were with that. And the two suits thing - going against what he probably didn't even realize was Barbelith Law - does it deserve being wiped out?
 
 
Jack Denfeld
01:51 / 22.09.03
I'm sure it's very hard to converse about this with you because you've missed almost everything that was going on. For example, I think you and Dupre are talking about totally different spammings. I think you might find most of your answers in Policy, looking at some of the current threads there.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
01:55 / 22.09.03
what I guess was supposed to be some kind of takeover bid for the board which, even if only a joke, was a monumentally idiotic thing to do.

Totally, especially since NYJC already ownz this shizzy, fool.
 
 
bio k9
02:09 / 22.09.03
Fo-shizzle my Qizzle!
 
 
I The Golden Dawn-nie Darko U
04:30 / 22.09.03
Hi all U language users. I am troubled by the current state of things. I do not know what is going on. Yesterday, a thread I made in the Conversation vanished.

There appears to be conflict. Some people are all down on mod, while others seem to be attempting to defend him. Me, I’m an associate of a friend of his, but this doesn’t make me “on his side.”

Some of U have said he doesn’t contribute value to this community. Others seem to think he does. And there are likely some that don’t give a toss either way or give a toss in a different direction.

I don’t know what to figure. In case you are like me I have collected all mod’s Headshop threads here.

Does he add value to this community or detract from it?

U B the Judge.

Contradictions, Statements, and System

Tell us what you know!..(about Nietzsche)

What is "this"? And does the nothing noth?

Language: speaking about speaking.

Investigating Advertising

Duality, Opposites, and Unities.

Argument vs. Rhetoric?

Sci, Rat, Emp. Or "Where have all the qualia gone?"

Magick and Mysticism

Six Small Degrees

How Do You Know?

Self-affixing...

The Right to Breed
 
 
Tom Coates
07:21 / 22.09.03
--X-- has indeed been banned (permanently / temporarily) from the board, as has 000 which used to be Chrome but had its password sent around to a variety of other people to use as and when they saw fit, Timewave Zero and an Andrew suit. I spent quite a long time talking with Mod, explaining that if he had any legitimate concerns that he wanted to talk about that he could talk to me directly and I would look into it, but he refused to take up that offer, chosing instead to start contacting people left right and centre with a 'revolutionary' agenda which basically consisted of writing shit everywhere and pissing everyone off. After I specifically asked mod to cool things down for a few days, he promised that his suit would be 'dead' for at least three days. During this time, I was forwarded correspondence that during this time he was just writing posts, getting other people to put them online (I might be wrong in this - but I believe sentience's thread was one of these) and continue to try persuade people to join in with his little campaign of rampant infantilism.

I made it clear the other day that I wasn't going to let this board be hijacked, blackmailed or pressured by people name-calling, trolling and spamming, and I meant it. I'll let the members concerned back on the board when they've apologised honestly for their behaviour and demonstrated that they're able to act even vaguely like adults.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
08:35 / 22.09.03
Mayfly:

I just want to say that I know mod in real life, one of the few people who do here, and to say (since he can't do it himself) that in my opinion he said nothing to deserve banishment.

I spent some time with Tom this weekend, and I know that he did this only after considerable agonising. He hates banning people, partly because he feels it indicates a failure of the system of distributed moderation schemes which Barbelith uses, and which he works so hard to refine. Your friend has been way out of court. I'm sorry if that upsets you. In day to day life, I'm sure he's a good citizen, but here, he's become a yahoo.

This thread is an excellent example of how such concerns should be handled. It is also the antithesis of how your friend decided to act. I might point out that banning Mod3's fiancee could be considered an act of mercy - it would hardly be fair to require her to refuse to allow Mod3 to access the board through her suit.

Now, assuming you have an open mind about this discussion, you should look at a few things:

This post sets out your friend's ostensive concerns, which are now a secondary issue. Instead of allowing Tom to investigate, and abide by his ruling (and I say again, he's a scrupulously fair man - and if you don't believe that, there's almost no point in your being here, because he's the rock on which the board rests; if he's corrupt, this project is a failure) Mod3 decided to have a 'revolution' - one which largely consisted of being as annoying as possible.

Tom follows Mod3's posts with two of his own, explaining that he is looking into these concerns, and also including the following:

Essentially, whatever you believe to be the case about this situation - however much you don't like Haus - essentially however justified you feel in your actions, your current actions are not justified.

This was over a week ago. Since then, as you will note, your friend has broken a simple promise to avoid stirring things up for three days. Why on Earth should Tom trust or tolerate him at all?

Irrespective of his initial position, Mod3 crossed the line. He may or may not have had a point about the Haus suit - there's no question that Haus is a caustic and sometimes rude debator. It's even conceivable that Haus and/or others may have abused the moderation system, by accident or design - though the evidence I've seen is against it so far. Your friend, however, made his case in a way which meant that his actions were more obnoxious than the offence he wanted to investigate.

There are discussions now going on about the board and about moderation. The issues in question are getting a serious airing, and they're not being deleted. You might wish to look at:

Let's Talk, Barbelith

How do you moderate?

On Fewer Admins

I'm sorry, Mayfly, but your friend is in the wrong.
 
 
Linus Dunce
09:15 / 22.09.03
Hi all U language users. I am troubled by the current state of things. I do not know what is going on. Yesterday, a thread I made in the Conversation vanished.

Are you talking about that "Iu-Dc"(?) nonsense that you posted, copied and pasted from a PM "someone" sent you? Following that, what am I supposed to think about your lovingly compiled collection of Mod's Greatest Hits? Give it a rest.
 
 
illmatic
09:16 / 22.09.03
I might add that one consequence of Mod's actions, as well as those by Chrome, the "sexless backpacker" etc. seem to me be that the closed membership will probably be to kept in place for the time being, just to avoid the kind of blow up situations we've been having. This is a real shame as to a degree the board thrives on new membership. I think I'll start a thread in Policy on this in a few days, whne things seem to have quietened down a bit.
 
 
The Strobe
09:45 / 22.09.03
Threadrot: when did the Chrome suit change? I remember the original one, which was generally nice and non-offensive afaicr. How the hell did the password get out? Or was there something about Chrome I was missing?
 
 
Lurid Archive
10:00 / 22.09.03
As I understand it, chrome has a certain history, Paleface. Probably not worth going into, though.

This is a real shame as to a degree the board thrives on new membership. I think I'll start a thread in Policy on this in a few days, whne things seem to have quietened down a bit. - Illmatic

Yeah, good idea. We need a better way to deal with these situations.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
10:08 / 22.09.03
I think it's a question of trust and consequence - an almost ubiquitous (ker-ching!) problem in free societies. I'm thinking about it and intend to post on the issue soon - I suggest you all do the same.
 
 
Quantum
13:42 / 22.09.03
how about a thread reserved only for Haus and Mod, so they can duke it out, mano e mano? mayfly

Like The Arena? I tried it, nobody wants to stoop to duelling, everyone is above that sort of thing. In theory...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:30 / 22.09.03


"This is not a first amendment thing, Walter!"
 
 
Tom Coates
15:58 / 22.09.03
Paleface - 000 (nee Chrome, I think) sent a message to me with the password and login name saying that if I didn't close it down ASAP then they were going to send the information to Andrew. I asked them not to, but I believe that they instead sent the details to a few people around the board to distribute how they saw fit pretty much immediately afterwards.
 
 
Hieronymus
16:19 / 22.09.03
"It" being the Chrome suit or "it" being the board?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:07 / 22.09.03
My apologies, may. It seems mod really *hasn't* told you anything like the whole story.
 
 
Papess
18:07 / 22.09.03
I just want to clarify...I am NOT mayfly. In case there may be some confusion in this regard.

Thanx All.
 
 
I The Golden Dawn-nie Darko U
19:17 / 22.09.03
I thought there was something different about the Chrome/000 suit. The insanity did not seem as refined.

For the record, I AM NOT MOD/ZERO/ whatever. I have pretty much laid out my identity for everyone (but here it is again - I am the partner of a certain former member here on Barbelith ) I am not Mod's girlfriend, I am not Mod - in fact, Mod and I have never met IRL and have scarcley talked on the board. When I posted the "message", I had no idea the problems that were going on here, nor do I wish to be really involve, but now Im intrigued. My "honey" has filled me in on the backgrounds of the parties involved and,well, I hope it turns out for the best. Really. I didn't feel it was fair to be deleted without notice but it appears rights are few and far between in this place at this time.

As for my partner,I am pleading with him not to re-emerge on the board
even though it seems taht a few people here are calling him out, to at least say SOMETHING.

Sorry, about the hassle - I plead ignorance to the situation.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
19:39 / 22.09.03
I didn't feel it was fair to be deleted without notice but it appears rights are few and far between in this place at this time.

Oh, good grief. You're not being persecuted.

It.
Simply.
Is.
Not.
Happening.


If you're going to claim that your rights have been infringed, I think you should explain where and why in nice, simple language.
 
 
Mourne Kransky
19:42 / 22.09.03
Can I just say that I am not Keyser Soze.

And since I'm not very Good and haven't been Banned, I must conclude that I'm Ugly.
 
 
..
19:58 / 22.09.03
And I just want to say that I'm not mayfly or El Automatic Antiautomaton, and that I don't really have enough history to take sides here. Pointing out the bannings is about as far as I think I can go in this thread.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
20:03 / 22.09.03
Well, if you're not either the name that suit first gave, nor the name it now wears, who the hell are you? And if you're the same person who posted as 'mayfly', why on Earth would you do that if you had no idea what was going on?

And can this circular nonsense get any more absurd and annoying?
 
 
..
20:12 / 22.09.03
Well, if you're not either the name that suit first gave, nor the name it now wears, who the hell are you?

Honestly, I don't know. But I should add that I'm not el zilcho either (another one of mod's). I'm just a guy doing his buddy a small favour. I do have an idea what's going on. I've read most of the related threads, but I just feel that I don't really know the personalities involved well enough to get too involved. Also, I don't really think mod is totally innocent here or anything - I'm just suggesting that maybe there are better ways to deal with it than banning.
 
 
Olulabelle
20:21 / 22.09.03
...And I am not me and she is not him and he wasn't her nor never will be. *Sigh.* Can someone remind me not to keep reading this thread?
 
 
I The Golden Dawn-nie Darko U
20:38 / 22.09.03
I'm just suggesting that maybe there are better ways to deal with it than banning.

Is it fair for Timewave Zero to be banned because of
a) ze holds suit 2012
b) ze chose not to reveal ze's former ID in public
c) ze's association to Mod?

I received a very heated e-mail from Timewave Zero claimimg that ze was barred due to my posting of the Ic_dU manifesto (which was promptly deleted from conversation) and now ze finds it odd that ze's barred and I am not. (Oops - I better not push it)

So here I am again, on someones behalf asking "what happened" - why was Timewave Zero barred (since we are clear on the Mod thing now).

Anyone?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:50 / 22.09.03
Multiple suit created after Tom had specifically asked, with reasons, people not to create multiple suits. Chose not to reveal who owned it, so that the previous suit could be kept in use if user so desired. A third reason that I am hoping somebody involved will be good enough to divulge, or a friend of his might be good enough to admit.


I think that might provide some thought-starters, but which of those reasons Tom might have chosen I have no idea.

Now, next question is which of these responses is more likely to get these people's views heard and discussed in the long run:

1) Taking some time out, thinking about how they could have handled things better, maybe apologising and attempting to behave like reasonably socially able people in future.

2) If we are being benefit of the doubty, browbeating acquaintances with suits already registered, into continuing to protest their innocence and demand their agenda be pushed forward, without a single pause for thought or reflection.

You may write on both sides of the paper.
 
 
I The Golden Dawn-nie Darko U
21:04 / 22.09.03
Yes, I am aware of the "O.T.Z." fiasco - I be;lieve I still have a copy of the PM inviting me (me???) to join, to which I declined. Not that it was a bad idea, and IIRC you were the inspiration for the project ("a suit of perfection, much like The Haus suit", a merger of minds collected in one suit,blah,blah,blah)

I have also taken the liberty to re-read the threads which this started - "TZ" contacted you to clear Mod's name,no? Is Timewave Zero correct in his statement "...Haus just would not let it go. He's tearing at the pant leg of my suit like a hungry dog even though I took steps to disclose my ID to Tom in private..." (Sorry to quote from private messages in my Email)

See, the thing is, ze is being treated like a troll though there are no public displays of trolling on this site (according to TZ and which I agree) so I am really still unsure of what transpired.

Sorry to take this further but this situation is, for some reason, affecting my ability to sleep at night
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:05 / 22.09.03
I'm just suggesting that maybe there are better ways to deal with it than banning.

But not putting forward any suggestions as to what those better ways may have been, other than the one about dedicating another thread to mod and Haus bitching at each other. Very useful.

Because, of course, the banning just came straight out of the blue and various people here didn't make any attempts to get mod to calm down and see where he was fast losing the plot.

Oh, and the two suits thing? I think it's fairly likely that he knew that it wasn't board policy, seeing as that was the issue that kicked this whole thing off in the first place, and he even started the thread about it.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:08 / 22.09.03
No, there aren't any public displays of spamming here. You know why? Get ready for this one; it might be a shock.

Because spam gets deleted. Message boards are funny like that.

Next week: Andrew keeps on getting accused of having been a nasty, racist, sexist, homophobic little turd, yet I can't find any of his posts. Why is that?
 
  

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