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The Geeky X-Men Thread

 
  

Page: 1234(5)6

 
 
grant
21:06 / 08.07.03
Yeah, you could have visual fun with Nightcrawler and Archangel on the same team, couldn't you? Or at least you could if the Austen hadn't turned Archangel pink again, and given him back the feathery wings, and turned him into a Christ-like figure who heals mutants by the power of his blood. Seriously.



Actually, even pink and feathery is cool - all that angel/devil stuff see?
But the healing thing sounds a little bit like overkill, isn't it?
I mean, he's got freakin' wings, right?
 
 
Seth
22:32 / 08.07.03
Mine was the hand that slew Proteus.
 
 
ciarconn
02:51 / 09.07.03
Actually, it's never been sugested (in Austen's run) that the Juggernaut is mutant, he hasn't been retconned. His powers are still magical in origin, but he seems to be loosing a bit of his power.
A bit more interesting has been how Austen has psychologically given the Juggernaut some depth. He hinted that the relation between Juggernaut and Black Tom Cassidy was, at least, one of domination and submission (with an slight homosexual insinuation). After Black Tom finally rejected Cain, he started facing his problems with his father (Xavier's step-father). And he felt good being in a group, causing colateral destruction, bashing heads, and then having diner with the guys; so he asked Xavier to be admited into one of the X groups.
Also intgeresting is his relationship with Sammy aka Fishboy.
 
 
Professor Silly
05:42 / 09.07.03
Here's one that's always bothered me:

If Wolverine's skeleton is entirely coated in adamantium then shouldn't his teeth look metallic, like that villian in the Bond films or some cheesy rapper?
 
 
Quireboy
10:51 / 09.07.03
Psychological depth and Chuck Austen - not something you tend to see in the same sentence. His portrayal of the Juggernaut - as every other character - has been two dimensional at best.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
11:35 / 09.07.03
dAb, you don't get a no-prize unless you come up with an explanatoin: they used a special white-lacquer admantium on his teeth. I hear the procedure is very affordable in Thailand.
 
 
waxy dan
15:36 / 09.07.03
No, Logan's teeth are false. He removes them on the first Tuesday of every month to enter gurning competitions down the local.



Gimme that no-prize!
 
 
diz
16:39 / 09.07.03
And Wolverines always had bone claws. I think they suck too, but them's the facts.

this was a retcon. prior to "Fatal Attractions," it was always said that the claws were added to his body as part of the Weapon X mods. it was only after he lost his adamantium, and the claws were still there, that it was decided that he had always had bone claws. surprised the hell out of him, iirc.

Austen hadn't turned Archangel pink again, and given him back the feathery wings

Austen turned him pink, but the feathery wings are Lobdell's fault, i think.

i was OK with him turning pink again. i'm OK with pink-and-feathery, and i'm OK with the full-on Apocalypse-modded blue-razor-shooting-death-machine. blue-and-feathery just looked fucking stupid.
 
 
PatrickMM
19:32 / 15.03.06
I've just completed a seven month read of the entire 1974-1991 Claremont X-Men run, and I wrote it up here, which also gives you links to all the reviews of it that I wrote along the way.

Here's an excerpt that sums up my feelings on the run as a whole:

There are two highpoints of Claremont's run for me, one is the Paul Smith era. He only drew about ten issues of the book, but they see Claremont at his most nuanced in building character. Storm is reborn, gets a mohawk and cuts loose. Cyclops meets a mysterious lady named Maddy Pryor, Kitty rebels against Xavier, Rogue joins the team and proves herself, and the best final panel of any issue ever, Wolverine shedding a tear as Mariko says she won't marry him. It's Wolverine crying, how bold is that. And Smith's art is the best in the book's entire run.

After Paul Smith, there was a bit of lull until the next highlight, the period from roughly 200 to Fall of the Mutants, featuring the art of John Romita Jr. This is where most of the ideas for the movie came from, the conflict between mutant and human, the world that hates and fears them thing. It's dark, intense stuff and the Mutant Massacre is Marvel's best answer to Dark Knight Returns. Fall of the Mutants brilliantly resolves the thematic question of the series by allowing the world to see the X-Men as heroes.

If the X-Men had stayed dead, it would have been the perfect end to the series. I don't think there was much left to do with the book after that, and after this point, Claremont generally stays away from mutant/human conflict. There's no way that Marvel is going to end X-Men at the height of its popularity, and it's that popularity that ultimately dooms the book.

I mentioned this analogy back in my original reviews, but I think it holds true. If X-Men was a TV show, Fall of the Mutants would be the series finale, and Inferno would be the movie made a few years later. Inferno, for all of its flaws, is the last time that these characters feel like real people, and you have the sense that real change can occur. Inferno was designed to clear the deck, and it did that too well, resolving so many long running plot points, from then on, the books had no direction. Inferno's treatment of Maddy bothers me a lot, but as a story, it's epic and crazy, playing off years of character history to create a really compelling narrative.

It's not like it's all downhill after Inferno, but you increasingly get the sense of these characters as fixed entities. Back in Paul Smith, it felt like anyone was expendable, and that the characters were constantly evolving entities. Storm of issue 165 is dramatically different from Storm of issue 94. However, that basic conundrum emerged, it's the dynmaic character development that made the book so popular, but to mess with the dynamics too radically could mean alienating the audience. I admire Claremont for trying some different stuff post Inferno, but in his attempt to shake things up, he separated the characters and there was no sense of the characters as a family.

After that, everything moved back towards the status quo, culminating in X-Men #1, when all the marketable characters are brought back together, Xavier is back in the wheelchair, Scott's back as leader, and it's easy to sell the concept to other media. And as Claremont found out with the Jean Grey resurection, it became increasingly difficult to make lasting changes to the characters.


On the whole, it was a fantastic reading experience. It's easy to see why the book became so popular, and also why it went creatively bankrupt in the 90s. However, what's happened since doesn't dull the greatness of most of the work in the run. Marvel should get more essentials going, and get this whole run back in print.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
01:03 / 16.03.06
If the X-Men had stayed dead, it would have been the perfect end to the series. I don't think there was much left to do with the book after that, and after this point, Claremont generally stays away from mutant/human conflict. There's no way that Marvel is going to end X-Men at the height of its popularity, and it's that popularity that ultimately dooms the book.
I like that, good point. Good review Patrick.
 
 
rabideyemovement
14:23 / 16.03.06
Do any of the X-Men still retain the Roma-given ability to hide from electronic surveillance equipment?
Or did the Seige Perilous wipe all that?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
09:25 / 17.03.06
Somewhere around X-Men#1/Uncanny #280 there was a question in the letters page and the editor replied that the power had 'worn off'. I stopped reading it a year or two later so I don't know whether that was ever a plot-point again.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
23:41 / 22.03.06
this was a retcon. prior to "Fatal Attractions," it was always said that the claws were added to his body as part of the Weapon X mods.

Actually Barry Windsor Smith added the bone claws in Weapon X. Wolverine wasn't designed to have claws, but when they were grafting the metal to the bone, they started grafting to previously undetected bone formations. All weapon X did was install some vents so that the Claws would come out without ripping the back of his hands off (instead they just cut through the skin).
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
19:57 / 24.03.06
It's an excellent review, Patrick. You've actually kind of made me want to go out and buy those essential X-Men books.
 
 
Benny the Ball
20:07 / 24.03.06
You should - they are about the best Essentials books on the market. I'd give Essential X-Factor a big swerve though - quite possibly the clunkiest comics I have read... and I've read Youngblood...
 
 
PatrickMM
20:10 / 24.03.06
Thanks Spyder, I'd definitely reccomend the Essentials. For one, they're a lot of content for not much cost, and once Volume 7 comes out in April, pretty much all the important issues of Claremont's run will be collected. If you just wanted to check out one, Volume 4 is by far the best.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
21:05 / 24.03.06
I've been very, very slowly getting the essential Spider-Man volumes (and by "slow" I mean I've bought the first 3 in the last 6 years) but I may grab the first X-Men one when I'm at the comic book shop net week.
 
 
PatrickMM
22:39 / 24.03.06
Make sure you don't get Essential Uncanny X-Men, which is the 60s Stan Lee series. Maybe I just have no appreciation for the silver age, but I couldn't make it through the whole volume. Stick with the Claremont.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
23:48 / 24.03.06
The early X stuff is at the same time great and terrible.

It's really fun reading the stuff Lee was writing when he was either a) really high on something or b) had no idea what he was doing.

My favorite bits include an entire issue where Jean's powers are referred to as teleportation, and this awesome moment of Magneto:

 
 
Are Being Stolen By Bandits
20:51 / 02.04.06
Stan Lee's inability to remember if Cyclops is called "Scott" or "Slim" is also good for a giggle. But really, other than some decent Kirby art (nothing like as good as his work on Fantastic Four, to my mind, but it's still Kirby, and that's got to count for something), the early run of X-Men is pretty inessential stuff. I enjoy some of the Neal Adams-era issues, but really, for me, it all comes down to Claremont and Morrison - warts 'n' all, those two runs represent the quintessential X-Men, and nothing else has ever come close.
 
 
Mario
21:02 / 02.04.06
Not to be _too_ pedantic, but I don't see the problem with the Scott/Slim bit. Slim was just a nickname, after all (one that rapidly became inaccurate, as he gained a standard heroic physique, but that's irrelevant )
 
 
Are Being Stolen By Bandits
21:27 / 02.04.06
The use of 'Slim' as a nick-name for Scott is, I believe, a retcon to retroactively explain away Lee getting the name wrong in one or two of the very early issues. It's something he did quite a lot, back in the early days (understandably, given how many books he was working on, and how disposable the comics were viewed as at the time) - there's a Fantastic Four issue in which the Hulk is consistently referred to as "Bob Banner", for a start.
 
 
Are Being Stolen By Bandits
21:29 / 02.04.06
Not, of course, that it matters at all. It's just something which amused me when I first spotted it.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
14:50 / 03.04.06
Claremont had his slip ups as well though, there is an issue where Peter Rasputin is called Cyclops in the narration when he transforms into organic metal.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
16:38 / 10.04.06
Alrighty, I have a question for the gurus.

When was Amanda Sefton turned into a witch, and if she always was, when was it revealed?

Early in Claremont's long run Kurt and Peter are dating an Amanda and Betsy, but theres no mention of Amanda using magic.

In issue 167 (i think) when Angel is grabbed by the morlocks all of a sudden Amanda is making Kurt a potion to cure his cold, and she says "My mother taught me all about the care and feeding of dragons"

So yeah, when was this revealed/retconned?
 
 
Mario
18:09 / 10.04.06
Uncanny X-Men Annual #4
 
 
Dan Fish - @Fish1k
14:13 / 20.04.06
Apparently 'Comic Creators on X-Men' was released today, it has an introduction by Len Wein and interviews with Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Neal Adams, Dave Cockrum, Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Alan Davis, Louise Simonson, Marc Silvestri, Bob Harras, Scott Lobdell, Chris Bachalo, Mark Millar & Grant Morrison.

Anyone picked this up?
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
09:29 / 23.04.06
I’m finally reading Peter Milligan’s X-Men now that a few collections have been released and as a fan of Peter David’s first run on X-Factor I’m now deeply curious to know what happened with Havok and Polaris between the sudden conclusion of David’s run and the beginning of Milligan’s. I’m especially interested to know what the awful, awful thing that Alex apparently did to Lorna is, assuming this is something that took place before Milligan came on board and is not therefore supposed to be a mystery at this point in the run. I know about Lorna found half crazy in Genosha in New X-Men, but other than that the gap between the two runs is completely blank to me, largely because I’m under the impression that many of the comics using Alex and Lorna during that period may well have been very bad indeed. So if some brave soul who’s endured the Austen run and/or any other relevant books would like to fill me in on Alex and Lorna’s trials and tribulations, so that I can get up to date without actually having to read the books myself I’d be hugely grateful.
 
 
Lama glama
10:26 / 23.04.06
It was during Chuck Austen's run on Uncanny X-Men that most of this stuff happened. Lorna was on Genosha when Cassandra Nova sent her army of sentinels there. The X-Men assumed that she was dead when they visited Genosha months later but were surprised to find a very insane Lorna, possessed by the ghosts of those who died in magnetic fields (just nod and smile).

Anywhos, Lorna eventually rejoined the team and rekindled her relationship with Alex (who had recently returned from the oh-so-90s world of Mutant X in a comatose state, been nursed back to health by a slightly obsessed nurse and taken command of the Uncanny branch of the X-Men). The nurse, Annie, fell in love with Havok and along with her son Carter, the three proceeded to become good friends.

However, Havok and Lorna fell back in love and got engaged. Carter wasn't impressed by this and proceeded to use his telepathic powers to make Havok fall in love with his mother. Havok proceeded to leave Lorna shortly before their wedding, which drove her insane (again). She proceeded to destroy the mansion (again) but was stopped by the now reformed Juggernaut. Carter and Annie left the mansion for some reason I don't care about and that about sums up Chuck Austen's train-wreck with Havok and Lorna.

Can you believe they let this guy go?
 
 
The Falcon
13:36 / 23.04.06
Apparently 'Comic Creators on X-Men' was released today, it has an introduction by Len Wein and interviews with Stan Lee, Roy Thomas, Neal Adams, Dave Cockrum, Chris Claremont, John Byrne, Alan Davis, Louise Simonson, Marc Silvestri, Bob Harras, Scott Lobdell, Chris Bachalo, Mark Millar & Grant Morrison.

Anyone picked this up?


Had a swatch in the shop at Grant's bit, nothing particularly new there. He'd not write them again, apparently. At £15 for maybe two or three 14-15 page interviews I'd be interested in, it was a bit rich for my blood.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
03:14 / 13.06.06
Inspired by PatrickMM and others, I've begun reading through the Essential X-Men volumes. And, because I have an extraordinary amount of free time at work during which I do my best not to go crazy, I've been putting together a comic book review site in the last couple of days. If I actually had anything to do at work, I'd feel guilty, but I don't. Anywho, similar to what Patrick did I'm writing a review of the volumes, except... I have enough time to review every. single. issue. Yeah, I really need to not have this much time. Anyway, my complete review of the first volume is up here now, and I should have a review of the second one up in a week or two.

If anyone cares.

Did I mention I have way to much time on my hands at work? Anyway, the site's still has a few issues I'm trying to iron out (I have no idea what I'm doing), but yes. Any comments people have would be appreciated.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
03:53 / 13.06.06
from Spyder's Giant Size X-Men review
Dude. Professor X is a dick. And I know I’m more prone to saying this than some people, but seriously. Here’s Ororo, living in Kenya, helping people. She’s bringing rains to farmers who need it for their crops. And yes, I realize that the average Kenyan thinking she’s a goddess is probably not the healthiest thing in the universe, but she’s keeping people from starving, for Christ’s sake! So to rescue his precious X-Men, Charlie shows up and does a small amount of mind control (I’m assuming, since his argument for her joining him is paper thin), and whoosh! All those Kenyans get to starve after all. Dick.
True that man.
 
 
PatrickMM
20:00 / 13.06.06
Spyder, I'm loving the reviews. I feel like most people consider the Claremont run a sort of dead work, people will say they liked the Byrne era, but not go beyond that, when in actuality, it's still a very exciting, if flawed work. Some of the early stuff is goofy, but it gets better. I think they've collected through Fall of the Mutants in the Essential books, so if you get those and Inferno, you'll get pretty much all you need of the Claremont run.
 
 
Quimper
15:03 / 14.06.06
Spyder is totally right about the mind control stuff with Storm. It came out a long time ago in Uncanny that Xavier implanted the desire to join him years before he recruited her...when she pickpocketed him as a child before his big initial confrontation with Farouk/Shadow King. He sensed she was a mutie then. She kinda knows but never called him out on it. She just gave him a big speech on morality, but was never like "you piece of shit mind-raper!" which is what i'd be all like.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
19:45 / 01.07.06
Even though it took me a two weeks longer than it should have, I've updated with my reviews on Essential X-Men 2. Huzzah!
 
  

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