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Girls Aloud

 
  

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haus of fraser
14:30 / 15.11.04
Anna,

My same argument would exist for christina and for chris martin- they have been employed for their talents as musicians above their looks- hence looking a bit ropey is a bit more forgivable than it is for GA. (although the rabbit face thing is quiet funny)

Just on an aside almost all of Christina Aguilera's recent videos have been shot by David Lachappelle one of the worlds biggest photographers- many would hail him as one of the most desirable video makers in the world today ( i think he was the 2nd most played director on MTV Europe last year- after Jake 'beyonce' Nava) Maybe the fact that she looks a bit wrong in the videos is a feature rather than the bad craftsmanship of GA? Much like there was a fuss made over Madonna's new looks in the 80's and early 90's Christina (like it or not) seems to be playing the I know that i used to be miss voice of america but now i'm gonna be what ever I want. Be it bitch from the block or Marilyn Monroe wannabe - its part of her PR.

On the misogynistic tip i do regret my (ugly ginger) wording on Friday because it only undoes my arguements- however I would feel the same way with a dodgy hair piece/ outfit/ tan on a blue/ westlife/ one true voice video for the same reason- the package is reliant on the looks of the band rather than their talents. The only reason I haven't made that comment is firstly- i haven't noticed that in one of their videos, and secondly this isn't a blooming thread about any of those bands...

Jack,
I thought we got over most of the nasty stuff on Friday- if not I'll apologise again, it all got a bit silly and i (probably rightly) got my wrist slapped for being out of line. Lets leave the backbiting behind.
i haven't and i don't think anybody else has said

"that's not real music - this is killing real music - try listening to some real music"
This thread isn't about the new single no- its about Girls Aloud in general- thus making my recent comments relevant as I am discussing there current single.
If it helps I'd probably refer to members of a male band as 'the ugly one' too. Certainly not intended to be read as misogynistic more as flippant- once again if you read them in that way I apologise.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:52 / 15.11.04
Copey, your post on the previous page is both circular and contradictory. You state that appearances are more important in the case of Girls Aloud than most bands, and yet when the evidence appears to contradicts this - ie, if we accept that one of them looks 'ropey' - you decide that they are failing in the area which in their case and only in their case holds such importance. Might it not suggest instead that their appearance should not be judged as being a more important factor than in the case of other bands?

You use the example of Michelle McMannus by way of contrast - the person voted for by the public because they loved her vocal talent v. the people handpicked by cynical industry scouts - despite the fact that McMannus and Girls Aloud are the end products of two different series of the same show.

i haven't and i don't think anybody else has said "that's not real music - this is killing real music - try listening to some real music"

How about the enormous false dichotomy being set up by Glumbit, between people who spend their time hard at work in the studio, working away, for a long period of time, doing hard work, work work work, serious work, Protestant work, and people who, horror of horrors, tour the country and are liked by children? (Incidentally, I have read that the new album features songs co-written by members of the group, so I'm afraid that your idle little prejudiced conjectures are at least in that respect incorrect, chum. Moreover, since when was the time it took to write or record music an indication of its quality? A week in the studio sounds great to me - you might not make Kid A, but that's not always the intent, is it?)

Or how about the ever-pervasive idea that music somehow has more integrity if it's being sung by the same person/people who wrote it? God, is that one still going around after years of blah blah Elvis blah blah Motown yada yada yada Bacharach etc?)? "why else wouldn't the song writers front their own outfit?" - There are hundreds of reasons why a song writer might not want to also front a band! There have always been people who were writers not performers throughout the history of popular music! You might as well ask: "Why would a scriptwriter not direct, produce and play all the roles herself?"

These are all variations on the same dismal theme.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:02 / 15.11.04
[mentioning Christina Aguilera is an] excellent addition to the trishafication of barbelith chat. top.

Do me a favour and explain how mentioning another artist in the same genre as a comparison (and explaining the relevance of the example) is in any way lowering the tone...
 
 
_Boboss
15:37 / 15.11.04
hahahahahaah - it's the 'two words' bit that's trishaesque, not surprising that you of all folk missed that. GET OVER IT and all that. heeheheheghe


more funny names. thank god we can rely on you to keep the debate up to a requisite level( it's your thread, remember? MY THREAD! WAAAH! WAAAH!). so the music is created on a franchise model and the mcworkers at the front sometimes get to decide how many slices of onion go into the bun. great. tasty music could come out of this, but the crucial thing your less than pretty romo rhetoric misses is that if someone doesn't like it, that doesn't make them a stodgy dadrock fan like you seem to insist. they might just like food with more flavours, more interesting or new combinations of flavours. your happiness with such unsophisticated categories (i.e. you, girls aloud fans, 'proper pop' fans in general not past the adolescent tribalism that makes them insist their opinions must be right vs. those hairy haters dlt-style rockbeasts who disagree) might make it easier to ignore the weirdo looks you get off the mums who notice you queuing to buy the same cd as their children. but it doesn't work as a means of dismissing criticisms of the band. being pop isn't enough any more. when the melody maker printed those articles that made such an insurmountable impression on you, the battle was won. the rocking horse was painlessly shot, and here you are still beating it all these years later. people will get frustrated with you for that, and you'll have to stick your neck out defending girls aloud, which is just a really, really funny way to lose your cool. not funny for you, for you it must be dreadfully humiliating, i just mean funny for me.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:05 / 15.11.04
Was there any point in that post, whatsoever, Gambit? As far as I can tell the only coherent points were:

1) There are several reasons why one might potentially dislike Girls Aloud
2) Flyboy is a weak, cretinous fool whose mind was warped permanently by some issues of the Melody Maker in the 90s which interviewed the Spice Girls.
3) If Flyboy keeps disagreeing with you, he's just going to look stupid.

1) seems self-evident, 2) pointless, 3) self-serving and a tad subjective. As usual, it is easier to insult people than discuss ideas. And for God's sake, people, paragraphs. They are there to make reading easier, and frankly round here constant reader needs all the help he or she can get.

Meanwhile, can I dial it back to Christina Aguilera? I am out of touch with the young people's music, but I'd put her far more in the Girls Aloud camp than the Chris Martin camp. Does she write her own songs these days? Originally she was "the Latina Britney", yes? That is, a product offering to fill a particular niche, then remarketed as sort of "bad Britney". Where she is now, apart from underneath a truly mind-mangling perm, I know not.

I can see the idea that, if Girls Aloud are a multimedia presentation involving an attractive look, shiny videos, songwriters, producers etc (leaving aside for a second that one could say that of pretty much all popular music), then a failure to meet the requisite standards in the video might be judged a failure in a way that it might not for Momus, say, because Momus videos are not expected to get heavy rotation. On the other hand, does that *oblige* the listener to take into account the video as well as the song? If there are many different ways to dislike Girls Aloud, might it not also follow that there are many different ways to *like* Girls Aloud?
 
 
haus of fraser
17:45 / 15.11.04
despite the fact that McMannus and Girls Aloud are the end products of two different series of the same show.

Not so; pop idol was Mcmanus made by 19 management- pop stars was Girls aloud made in the UK by London weekend Television- different shows different selection proccess. The 'scouting for looks' thing doesn't happen in Pop Idol thus opening it up to a wider selection of wannabes than the Pop Stars show.

My original point was that by setting this system where you gotta look good as a standard when standards slip is it a sign that the coffers are short?

Also I know we've kinda got side tracked by this issue but the song is pretty bad too- We all seem to agree on this.

Incidentally, I have read that the new album features songs co-written by members of the group, so I'm afraid that your idle little prejudiced conjectures are at least in that respect incorrect, chum

yup and if they do make it as marvelous pop song writers then i stand to be corrected- i read that they had co- written one song on the new album too (though not one of the singles). I would be suprised if that happens but I'm not as prejudiced as you'd think to say 'well they turned it round- who'd have thought it!' After all the Rolling stones started out not writing their own material and i'd surely have egg on my face in that battle! However for every Stones there is a Victoria Beckham - and I remember seeing her perform one of her own tunes on Parkinson - funnily enough the record label didn't see fit to release that single either- it wasn't a pretty sound.

I don't want to take into account your own enjoyment of their other singles Flyboy - god knows I've learnt my lesson- you are entitled to that!

I was calling into question their durability over time- not yours or anyones obligation to like the music. They've got a shit/boring/ uninspired/ unremarkable (delete as appropriate) single with a cheap looking video- is there time up? You don't seem to think its up- sadly i doubt i'll buy the album, but let us know as and when it arrives on your thoughts, life in the old dog yet? Maybe we should follow its time in the charts- I am willing to be proved wrong, and won't feel too shitty about it.

Maybe the other reason why I got the impression that GA were on their way out. I read an article a couple of months back that more series of Pop stars/ Pop idol were in doubt after the recent flops of Mcmannus, Gareth, One True Voice and hearsay- the market was becoming too flooded and bands weren't making high enough returns for their labels? Do we want more of these shows- much as i've enjoyed other series, the current x factor hasn't dragged me in- are they fading? are we gonna have respite from wannabe tv (maybe this requires a whole new thread- say whether you think we should start it and i will?)
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:49 / 16.11.04
...if they do make it as marvelous pop song writers then i stand to be corrected...

OK, trying not to be so antagonistic...

Arrggh... WHY? Why do you stand to be corrected if they show songwriting nous? This is the question. Let's leave Gambit to blether on without the aid of punctuation or proper syntax. Engagement is good. We like engagement, and do not wish to be seen to disincentivise like motherfuckers.

This 'singer/songwriter as God' schtick pretty much started with the Beatles. It should have ended with them. Flyboy's already thrown out Elvis and Motown as probably two of the biggest examples of why this is the case. How many of the hits he sang on did Elvis write? Why should we care? How about country, folk and blues, older genres with a rich history of live and recorded versions of other peoples material, the oral tradition therein?

FYI, the reason some of you are getting 'indie snob'/'dadrocker' comparisons isn't because you dislike Girls Aloud - it's because of the reasons that you have stated that you dislike Girls Aloud, which are indistinguishable from the arguments put forward by 'indie snobs'/'dadrockers' the world over. All music is a product. Every time one of your heroes plays a gig, releases a single or has a photo taken of hirself, they're marketing that product. The only difference between them and Girls Alous is a question of scale, and also likely their deluded opinion that they are different in a major, qualitative way from Girls Aloud. They aren't, they just have a sufficient veneer of 'credibility', which in itself is a facet of the way they, and artists like them, have been marketed over the decades since the Fabs. Every time you trot out the tired old 'songwriter is God' argument, you're repeating a forty-year-old marketing strategy and toeing the party line of a hundred record company executives who realised that if the product combined songwriter/musician/singer, maybe even producer and album cover artist too, why not, they would have to pay a lot less people. In the States, singers etc have been referred to as 'recording artists' for decades, from Sinatra and the rest of the rat pack, via Elvis, the Motown stable, through to the pop divas etc of today. They record and front material to be sold to the general public.

There is an argument to be made concerning the concept of authenticity and whether it has value in a discussion on an aspect of 21st century pop culture (and Girls Aloud, as a manufactured pop group voted into being by the public by consumption via mediated experience and kept afloat by the continued support of the public, in marked contrast to their erstwhile rivals One True Voice, definitely qualify as one of the more interesting aspects of 21st century pop culture) but you aren't making it one example is hip hop, and the untouchable credibility of the lyrical MC who raps over music largely based around samples of music previously written and recorded by other people - that's a dissertation on authenticity waiting to happen).

Why does it matter whether Girls Aloud show themselves to be decent songwriters? Fucksake, Robbie Williams writes at least half of the songs he releases (all melodies, all lyrics, a lot of riffs and arrangements), but he don't get tickled with the credibility feather... (oh, we on that again... )
 
 
_Boboss
12:21 / 16.11.04
oughter be more careful really. go on, edit post, no-one noticed.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:50 / 16.11.04
Actually, on the singer/songwriter tip... I am suddenly minded of the 6ths, who are a group made up of the necessary people to provide the backing music and vocals for songs written but not performed by Stephin Merritt. Merritt also had a female singer performing his songs on the first two Magnetic Fields' albums, because he couldn't sing for toffee. So possibly this is not really about indie so much as about rock... a kind of artisanal approach where you varnish the table you've made...
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:11 / 16.11.04
Okay.

but surely there is a difference between the wholesale marketing onslaught of bands like GA and their ilk, and musicians trying to make enough to continue what they are doing. Not all people crave fame and stardom, but aim to make enough to survive. You say you don't care who's behind the music, and Fly's Motown assertation is a great example of how a factory line ethos can still create often wonderful music.

I really don't care as much as you assume about whether the girls sing thir own songs but I do find them, as a product, less than the sum of their parts. Their voices are stage school perfunctory, and they retain a generic Hollyoaks look. The production is often interesting, and they haven't resorted to saccharine RnB balladeering a la The Sugababes, which is another point in their favour...yet I still find it cold, calculating 'pop' music - the ladies themselves have no distinctive charisma (unlike maybe Missy or Kelis).

And it does affect me that they've come out of Pop Idol or whatever, because i find that show to be depressingly artificial and mean-spirited. You don't feel this way, it's clear, and I'm not claiming moral superiority here, as you are simply seeking 'shiny danceable pop tunes'. Fine. But I still reserve the right to dislike them and not be dismissed as a fucking dad-rocker. You accuse people of not engaging with the debate, but your recourse seems to be to sling the words 'boring', 'charmless', 'pointless' at those who don't march in line with your POP FUN! ethos. Deliberately antagonistic, and often just plain rude.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
13:12 / 16.11.04
Oops. Whole thing wasn't meant to be in itallics.
 
 
_Boboss
13:31 / 16.11.04
see i reckon the suga babes are okay - there's an icy, detached vibe to their sound, and their tracks never over-announce themselves, just generally have a good hook and chorus. they don't have the dev from coronation street histrionics that ga's screechy singalongs do. plus they look a bit like aliens.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:00 / 16.11.04
I suspect I feel about "Freak Like Me" and "Hole in the Head" as Flyboy felt about "Sound fo the Underground"...

but surely there is a difference between the wholesale marketing onslaught of bands like GA and their ilk, and musicians trying to make enough to continue what they are doing. Not all people crave fame and stardom, but aim to make enough to survive.

It might be worth looking at how much Girls Aloud have actually _made_ from their pop career so far. I am going out on a limb, but I suspect it is likely to be a lot less than Chris Martin. As I understand it, Girls Aloud are likely to be on a monthly wage, which may seem high to us but is a lot less, among other things, than it would be if they had the writing credit on their singles. The stage school/pop band path seems to me far *more* artisanal - you learn a trade, you get a job, you work for a living until your bosses no longer believe your contribution to be valued, you get sacked.

the ladies themselves have no distinctive charisma (unlike maybe Missy or Kelis).

Not to go on, but how about Christina Aguilera?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
14:56 / 16.11.04
How about her?
 
 
Haus of Mystery
15:00 / 16.11.04
And why do people keep mentioning Mr Coldplay, as if he's the other option. I have less time for that band than GA, and I'm fully awarre of the fact that they are an equally packaged and sold product.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:23 / 16.11.04
MacGyver:

Meanwhile, can I dial it back to Christina Aguilera? I am out of touch with the young people's music, but I'd put her far more in the Girls Aloud camp than the Chris Martin camp. Does she write her own songs these days? Originally she was "the Latina Britney", yes? That is, a product offering to fill a particular niche, then remarketed as sort of "bad Britney". Where she is now, apart from underneath a truly mind-mangling perm, I know not.

I can see the idea that, if Girls Aloud are a multimedia presentation involving an attractive look, shiny videos, songwriters, producers etc (leaving aside for a second that one could say that of pretty much all popular music), then a failure to meet the requisite standards in the video might be judged a failure in a way that it might not for Momus, say, because Momus videos are not expected to get heavy rotation. On the other hand, does that *oblige* the listener to take into account the video as well as the song? If there are many different ways to dislike Girls Aloud, might it not also follow that there are many different ways to *like* Girls Aloud?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
15:26 / 16.11.04
Gambit, the only thing I could get out of your last-but-two post is a bundle of strange contradictions. On the one hand you're accusing me of dividing music and music fans into "unsophisticated categories", yet in essence you're doing the same thing.

And as Jack points out, you keep repeatedly insisting that criticising a band like Girls Aloud doesn't automatically make you a boring old Q reader - fair enough - but the next moment, you're talking about "the weirdo looks you get off the mums who notice you queuing to buy the same cd as their children". Now I'm sure any attempt I make to engage with that point is going to get a "haha it was a JOKE" response, but really - I don't what's worse, the idea that what other people (and their mums) think about my music taste should shame me, or the idea (still unexplained despite requests) that if kids like it too, there's something wrong with adults who like it... (What about comics? They're just for kids, aren't they? Any bloke in his twenties who buys them must be a bit weird, eh?) No matter how humorous you think you're being, you're still falling back on the old idea that there are certain kinds of music that it is not acceptable to like for people of a certain age - that anyone who deviates from this should be embarrassed. A concept of credibility based on fear of shame... Now that's what I call "less than pretty".

Maybe the other reason why I got the impression that GA were on their way out. I read an article a couple of months back that more series of Pop stars/ Pop idol were in doubt after the recent flops of Mcmannus, Gareth, One True Voice and hearsay- the market was becoming too flooded and bands weren't making high enough returns for their labels? Do we want more of these shows- much as i've enjoyed other series, the current x factor hasn't dragged me in- are they fading? are we gonna have respite from wannabe tv (maybe this requires a whole new thread- say whether you think we should start it and i will?)

I much preferred X-Factor when Peter David was writing it. It was never the same after they killed poor wee Jamie Madrox.

But seriously - that is interesting about the different shows/selection processes, which is something I wasn't aware of -to a certain extent I agree with you, in that the 'reality tv contest' model for producing new acts will probably follow the same pattern as every other model: ie, one or two bands/artists will genuinely capture the public imagination, most will be pushed by the record company to increasingly little avail and be unceremoniously dropped, then the record companies will get obsessed with something new... But for the bands who have won the public over already, that shouldn't be a problem as long as they keep producing stuff the public likes.

Eh, more I want to say here, but I'm out of time - just to say that MacGyver, I've got no problem with you thinking that Girls Aloud are less than the sum of their parts, or not liking them in general. But to a certain extent I think the ideal of the struggling artist who doesn't want fame or fortune is still being fetishised at the expense of the reality of most people's record collections - ie, most music most of us own will have been produced, I would confidently guess, as a result of motivations and processes which are somewhere in between the polar opposites of "wholesale markering onslaught involving people who just want fame and fortune" and "struggling artist who only cares about the music and getting by". And I would also guess that when it comes down to it, we don't base our choices of what we buy or listen to on the basis of which pole we think was closer - and God, not should we, because a) our information in that regard is usually extremely flawed, and b) in the end, it really is how much we like how the music sounds that matters.
 
 
_Boboss
15:56 / 16.11.04
it was late in the day. 'you're not arguing with those fucking geeks are you?' said my lift home. 'they're not... ah never mind i'm coming.'

all excellent points as ever flybs. but but but - why WOULD someone in their twenties like something that's been a) specifically produced for and b)bought in overwhelming quantities by pre-pubertal children? (a and b, i think you'll agree, invalidate the comic books comparison) i find their music, as i've said histrionic and screechy, add to that simple, boring... they appeal to kids, who've heard less music than me, whose tastes i find slightly impenetrable given the massive biological and psychological differences between us. enjoying that music then, mystifying, but fair enough...defending the coolth of that music to the hilt? just not the kind of thing i can imagine would be worth the time of anyone not avoiding their homework.

so all my criticisms of ga are personal value judgements, but nevertheless the forementioned histrioncs etc. don't impress me in the least. they're things that scream 'pissy pop' at me in fact. it would embarrass me to be caught buying a girls aloud record that i couldn't honestly say was being bought for a younger relative, that's just my interpretation of preferable adult behaviour, and so i remain unable to see the worth in defending them so aggressively. why 'should' (not my word) adults and children listen to you're a certain, rather committed and idiosyncratic kind of pop fan, so i ain't saying you only like ga because you've not had the pleasure of hearing north and south, because you probably have.

for the record, that sound of the underground track ain't too bad but the twang guitar disappoints me because i fear it means we won't be seeing the self-sparkly trainers of bands like shampoo in the hit parade again. the love machine one though sounds like it's designed for torturing people with hangovers. can't remember any of the others, that's gotta be at least as much their fault as mine.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:36 / 17.11.04
It invalidates a comparison to a lot of comic books nowadays, but not to the JLA cartoon, or the Powerpuff Girls, or ice cream, or Philip Pullman novels or... y'know... anything that kids like and adults do too. Not that I spend *all* my time on some kind of crazed magical fantasyland sugar high, but it has its place. If GA don't do it for you, then that's fine, but I really will defend to the death the idea that "but it's for children!" should never, ever be a good reason to abstain from listening to something.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:49 / 17.11.04
MacGuyver: see, your most recent post engages with and acknowledges the arguments, so, you know, it's all that and ice cream on the side.

And I really don't mind or care that you don't like Girls Aloud. Asserting that it's common sense that eny fule nos that GA are wanky balls for kids, that manufactured pop is The Devil and that adults should be ashamed that they like it : that's the argument I was objecting to. Like it or not, that is the dadrocker argument, and it isn't part of a debate, it's a reactionary and often wilfully ignorant and unexamined position. Usually taken by Tories (ducks for cover).

Gambit: like Fly says, lots of things are intended for kids, but enjoyed by adults. This doesn't invalidate an adult liking them. Whatever you may choose to believe, a certain cajun X-man was the product of an era in Marvel comics where the target audience was pretty much entirely twelve-sixteen year old males into adolescent power fantasies...

Haus: For me, Aguilera fits more into Madonna's place in the scheme of things. Both were anxious to be seen as more credible, more of a 'creative artist' with the career longevity that can come with that , and it's possible Xtina'll pull it off - she's putting in the footwork, which is something that Spears isn't really interested in doing, for example. I may not agree with the signifiers of authenticity that she's surrounding herself with to shift her status within pop culture, but I can't argue with a young female pop star having more input and control of her career and the way she's represented and packaged - that's more a feminist issue, though. As long as she still presents great songs, that's all...
 
 
_Boboss
11:56 / 17.11.04
cajun dadrock then -

'just a couple of credence tapes'

woo yeah back in the baaayooo
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
18:19 / 17.11.04
You realise though, that by supporting these bands you're basically sucking hairy corporate dick?

Supporting reality TV projects supports the growth of disturbing cultural trends in the same way giving Starbucks or McDonalds your time and money leads to very dodgy shit. Like Simon fucking Cowell and that goldigger off the Osbornes, or bollocks like HEAT magazine.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:25 / 17.11.04
Hello, Dudley. Who makes your trainers? Who makes the clothes you wear? Who makes the television programmes you watch? Is it me, or did the Mars Volta sign to Universal?
 
 
The Falcon
23:33 / 17.11.04
Some people like sucking dicks.

Not me, but some people.

GA have some good songs. The new one is not, nor was it ever, a good song. 'My Prerogative' is good, too.

Gumby's right about those MM articles though; made a big impression on moi aussi. For the better.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:41 / 18.11.04
It's been disputed whether the power during an act of oral pleasuring really does belong to the donor or the recipient: therefore, some would argue that by liking a band such as Girls Aloud I am in essence allowing corporations to suck my hairy dick.

Which is fine, as long as I imagine the corporation in question is female. I would not want to be confused with one of teh gays! I am glad Dudley has alerted me to the fact that liking certain music makes one a gay. And a capitalist.

Seriously, as Haus implies, pointing out the fact that one is complicit in capitalism and helping prop up corporations when one participates in the music industry as a consumer is all well and good, as long as you apply the same standards/principles across the board, and don't allow your own personal aesthetic taste to dictate what you think is evil and corporate and what you think is okay. So even before we get onto the issue of whether there's any point to boycotting music on the basis that you'd be complicit in corporate capitalism without also taking the same approach to everything else you buy (coffee, shoes, computer games - if you do do all that, Dudley, then good on you), you'd have to make sure you weren't buying any music made by a band who were signed to a major label, or a subsidiary of a major label... Which might be laudable, but your record collection is going to be the poorer for it, IMHO.
 
 
_Boboss
09:54 / 18.11.04
flyboy, your dick really shouldn't have hair on it.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:59 / 18.11.04
Unless capitalism has a moustache.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:31 / 18.11.04
Please don't say things like that, Haus. It makes it hard to enjoy the music without certain... images. I'm not homophobic or anything though.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:33 / 18.11.04
It's just the images... They get stuck in your head.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:18 / 18.11.04
And in capitalism's moustache.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:04 / 18.11.04
I'm not talking about capitalisim, chummers. I'm talking about the overgrowth of this sickeningly bland Celeb/Corporatised culture that reality TV and reality TV bands are, in part, fueling.

It's perfectly reasonable to attack Girls Aloud for being a part of this.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:13 / 18.11.04
Oh and for fucks sake, when did I make any kind of value judgement on homosexuality?

(Just to make it clear to flyboy and his radical conscience: an entirely valid lifestyle with no moral value or deficit attached to it, which I consider to be in equal standing to hetrosexual behaviour)

If I was to substitute "sucking dick" with cunilingus, would that be OK?

And can I just make this point clear again, so you don't all run around like headless chickens the next time you post: I am criticising the cultural effects of Girls Aloud, not their economic impact.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:19 / 18.11.04
Hello, Dudley!

You seem to be confused about what the word "corporate" means. It means:

Of or relating to a large company or group

A large company like Universal records, to whom The Mars Volta and Busted are both signed, or Microsoft, which might have supplied the operating system your computer is using, or AOL Time Warner, which produces many of the comics you love.

You seem to be confusing that with an aesthetic (and also, one suspects, a moral) quality. That is, you believe that the Mars Volta, say, are not corporate because they do not seem to you to sound corporate, whereas their labelmates Busted probably do. That is not a practical distinction. Perhaps you need another term to use instead of "corporate"? How about "thing I do not like"?

So, you could tell Flyboy that by listening to Girls Aloud, he is sucking the dick of a thing you do not like. Or, to avoid the tedious idea that sucking cock is somehow an act of submission and weakness, why not tell him that by listening to Girls Aloud he is listening to a thing you do not like? I'm sure when you put it like that he will understand entirely the error of his ways and burn his CDs.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
12:37 / 18.11.04
Hello Haus!

My god, you've got it! Yes, I don't like the asthetic of Girls Aloud, which in some ways takes on Corporate aspects: big marketing push, been focus grouped to buggery (oh no! I said buggery! CLEARLY I HAT TEH GHAYS). I don't give a flying fuck if Mars Volta sign to a label - they lived on a pittance in their last band, and it would be nice if they could make a living out of it, or at least enough to return from a tour to attend the funerals of dear friends back down Texico way.

This is because The Mars Volta don't boost Heat Magazine's circulation everytime they're photographed in public, and they've never been the centrepeice of god awful television. TMV don't seem to be a part of a cultural movement to the furthest extremes of bland celebrity pisspuddling. I've not bothered to buy a radio or a TV since I moved to halls, haus, and it's party because of this sort of thing. Hence, I have what I feel is a valid objection to Girls Aloud.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:56 / 18.11.04
I've not bothered to buy a radio or a TV since I moved to halls, haus, and it's party because of this sort of thing.

Sounds like a party to me, certainly.

So, since you don't have a TV or radio, and presumably you don't read Heat magazine, how exactly are Girls Aloud ruining your life? Are you working on the assumption that people who are reading Heat would otherwise be reading the Consolations of Philosophy and writing sonnets? Not the way it works. In my day, people would read the Picture Post or The Strand. The gossip may have been more rarefied, but it met the same need. So, is it simply that it upsets you that these people exist at all? If so, you should probably boycott the Mars Volta, because they are corporate. Corporate, and I can see this is going to be a stumbling block, means:

of or relating to a large company or group

Universal have signed the Mars Volta because they believe the Mars Volta have the potential to advance their corporate aims, either through adding credibility to the brand or by making money for the company. Therefore, the Mars Volta are part of a process which ultimately rewards and encourages the promotion of Busted. I realise that this idea is not likely to make much sense to you, since the Mars Volta combine their robot lion ships specifically to fight the evil plans of Busted, but there you go.
 
  

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