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Girls Aloud

 
  

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Regrettable Juvenilia
16:58 / 31.12.02
Do you like Girls Aloud's 'Sound of the Underground'?

I knew I loved it early on, and here's why: because that song title, in all its startling disingenuousness, seems to exist almost solely to drive certain kinds of music snob insane with misplaced righteous anger.

"Gah! How can they even *use* the word 'underground'?? They're a MANUFACTURED pop band! They were on TV, and the *public*, the mindless brainwashed ignorant masses, were allowed to vote who got into the band! They look like the kind of girls you see in shopping centres, with white high heels and very conditioned hair! That's not underground! My Coldwater Suplex Records are underground. My compliation CDs of every good unreleased bootleg from the 60s and 70s are underground. My Godspeed You! Earnest Canadians records are underground. MANUFACTURED POP BITCHES are not underground! These people are killing music."

It's the same reason I love Pink (how *dare* she dress a bit punky or gothic? how dare she try to 'pretend' to be a bit rock now? she used to make R&B records! you know, like black people!), the same reason I love Britney's cover of 'I Love Rock'n'Roll' (oh, just picture the disgust on those rockist faces, picture the Just-Not-Getting-It-ness... it's like Dread Pirate Crunchy said: "outsmarted by Britney").

Oh, and of course because there's some freaking great tunes involved.

If Pop is the new punk (and it is, it is), then purists are the new parents. They are there for one reason only: to be annoyed.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
18:26 / 31.12.02
Whoa, hold on there, Flyboy. There's a lot more to 'punk' than just annoying older people, and you know that. Is DIY only for squares now? Is that what yr really trying to say?

I really wish people would get over this dim "music is rebellion!" bullshit, especially people who really ought to know better.

Music really is for everyone, and there's no shame in liking pop, and there's nothing wrong with enjoying the same things that your parents or (gasp) people even older than them liked.
 
 
Jack Fear
18:39 / 31.12.02
Fuck yeah. I'm all about Django Reinhardt right now. Gypsy Swing is the real New Punk, and all of you except Rothkoid are a bunch of fucking poseur cunts.
 
 
Our Lady of The Two Towers
20:49 / 31.12.02
What about that TATU video eh, eh! Lots of camera friendly lipstick lesbianism and neither of them die at the end of it, though they may catch their death snogging out in the rain like that...

To paraphrase Bjork I could get annoyed but I've 'got bett-ah to doooo.'
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
22:55 / 31.12.02
Jack: thass' right. Hardline with three fingers, a cheroot and a waxed moustache.
 
 
Old brown-eye is back
23:55 / 31.12.02
FlyB, at the risk of adding yet another layer of bullshit to the discussion, doesn't all this make you a kind of Pop Music, anti-hater snob? What about the posibility that the purists secretly exist soley to get on the nerves of self-checking Internet smart-arses. How punk would that be?

Is the GA single any good? I haven't heard it yet.
 
 
rizla mission
10:25 / 01.01.03
Well at least they've had the decency to change the title slightly after a word with my lawyers..
 
 
that
13:14 / 01.01.03
Tis awful, the GA single. Bo-o-oring. Extremely. Their voices are pretty far down in the mix, too. Having not watched Popstars: The Rivals for more than a few minutes at a time(Fame Academy was better), I don't know whether they can actually sing. But someone seems to think they're better off not being heard.

Pink's alright though. And I like the way she dresses...
 
 
bio k9
19:20 / 01.01.03
I find Pink so annoying that I actually like her too.
 
 
deja_vroom
13:43 / 02.01.03
I consider myself to be on the alt-rock side as a fan, and I can't say I'm *annoyed* or *infuriated* by acts such as Pink, Girls Aloud or whatever.

I just don't consider them important enough to produce the smallest blip in my radar. They're out there somewhere making non-significant things (and a lot of $), will be forgotten in 2 years or less, a new wave of the same insipid stuff will be produced, and the wheel will be turning again... I mean, why bother?

So, liking plastic pop now is *outrageous*, huh? I'm shocked, I really am. Kids these days...
 
 
The Natural Way
14:15 / 02.01.03
I keep on enjoying the sheeeeeeeeeeeit out of Pink, but that Girls Aloud tune is dull. But not as dull as that fucking 'Sacred Trust' business.
 
 
_pin
20:32 / 02.01.03
I like the song. Except for the song part. The like the music. I just wish they wouldn't sing. Because they're shit.

And dude... Pink is too. Some good songs... most not good. Hope you're not letting yr taste slide in all this Look! Pop! excitement.
 
 
No star here laces
09:42 / 03.01.03
Ummm, the "song good songs, most lame" argument cannot wash. Apply this to all your albums and find how many remain. A good artist is someone who produces a couple of bona-fide classics in their working life (and that's songs, not albums). The odd unbelievable genius will produce more, but they're pretty rare...
 
 
Seth
10:16 / 03.01.03
It could be argued that someone who is only interested in pop as it re-experiences itself in a cross-section of artists and genres is as much of a purist as anyone else.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:25 / 03.01.03
It could, it could... eh?

Would anyone believe me if I claimed this thread was a piece of magic designed to purge the 'shiny pop kid' persona I've been wearing for much of 2002 in preparation for a new one to emerge?

Well, anyway, I think my mistake in starting this thread was forgetting that there aren't actually that many of the kind of people I was thinking of here - most people are smarter than that, so by adopting a position that's almost a parody of my own (y'all know I love obscure shit too), I fell down...

However, I still think there's a point here, and Jade has helped me out somewhat by demonstrating the tendency to position 'manufactured' pop music as an un-music, located somewhere outside of the boundaries of what qualifies as 'real' music/art, which of course had been done before with hip-hop, dance, punk, rock'n'roll... That's where the similarity lies, but I need to give this more thought.
 
 
suds
11:16 / 03.01.03
i love flyboy. i like the girls aloud song and think the girl with red hair is cute, but cmon, pink? pink sucks. she can't sing very well and the dude lady from 4 non blondes writes her songs! pink whinges even more than coldplay! i used to hear the pink album all the time when i was working at hmv and i can honestly say that it's depressing as any indie rock shite.
 
 
arcboi
11:41 / 03.01.03
I've still yet to hear the single although by most accounts it's somewhat better than the boy's effort. Hurrah the girls!

As for "manufactured music" - it might come as a shock to the music fundamentalists, but all music is "manufactured". All of these ubiqitous guitar bands who are "real" artists aren't serious enough. They're using instruments that other people built! It's only "real music" if you've built your own instruments. And written your own songs. And not used a producer. And done it for the "art" and not the money. And not been influenced by 50-so years of popular music that other people wrote. And something.
 
 
deja_vroom
11:46 / 03.01.03
I think *un-music* defines perfectly what’s being sold. It’s an aggregate of image, style and behaviour wrapped in accessible song formats. Just as punk, of course, or any other pop musical style of the last century. The difference is the weight of each of those elements(of image, style, behaviours, music) in the equation. I don't have to point out the difference between a Dead Boys gig and a Boyz II Men gig, have I?

What prevents me from paying more attention to this phenomena is the fact that they’re meant to be ephemeral, and it feels like I would be investing my time and, more importantly, money, in something that wouldn’t last or be remarkably meaningful to my life. We all still sing songs we heard ten years ago, from our favorite bands. We all felt gutted when those bands broke up, and so on, and so forth. The shiny pop thing feels much more like intercourse with a prostitute. Nothing wrong with that, it’s just not that fulfilling. Or perhaps I1’m just old and grumpy.

I didn’t mean to sound patronizing, it’s just that… Justin Timberlake… you could be doing something so much better with your time, learn to knit, or whatever. Ok, sorry. Shutting up now.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
12:24 / 03.01.03
A while back we had a thread about 'indie guilt', but I never thought that topic really tackled that concept nearly as well as this one does. What is up with this phenomona of folks who grew up "indie" in the 90s suddenly renouncing their old tastes and overzealously championing mainstream pop?

If you take a few steps back, it seems so incredibly reactionary; it reduces something as broad and beautiful as music to dim binary oppositions - white/black, new/old, 'relevant'/'irrelevant', pop/indie, fun/depressing, real/fake, shallow/deep, and flips cool and uncool around a million times over. I'm just sick to death of this, it's everywhere, not just on Barbelith. Look at ILM, for christ's sake - heroin addicts : methadone clinics :: post-indie pop fans : ILM!

Music is a lot bigger than this, and it means a lot more than "POP RULEZ! INDIE SUX!" and "INDIE RULEZ! POP SUX!". Clinging to these phoney binary oppositions is shallow and lazy, and you all know it.
 
 
deja_vroom
12:52 / 03.01.03
Ok, let me get this straight. I'm not making value statements here. All I'm saying is that act pops such as the ones mentioned in this thread are meant to be ephemeral from their inception. It is that way because they're built in the frenzy of fads, and fads fade away just as the main target market (13-yr old kid and girls) grow up. New pop bands will arise as the stars themselves get old, and the old ones are forgotten.

I'm saying that, because of this fact, they can be interesting to me in a sociological approach, if I get interested in investigating the mechanisms involved in the process of marketing a certain style/young sex-icon to a broad audience. It might give me a certain insight on the tastes and interests of the masses, but that's where it stops.

The marketing people, the designers, the PR people involved in the process of marketing these popstars see them more as products than artistic acts (to do otherwise would minimize their profit margin). Why should I, who have the money and (supposedly) the right to choose where to invest it, do otherwise?

[edited for wonkisms]
 
 
Seth
23:20 / 03.01.03
I may get shot down for this, but I'm resolutely not going to champion pop music. Now, pop music can mean a lot of different things - my meaning here is music that already has a large audience, and can readily be accessed without having to feel the need to own it oneself.

Five years ago I decided that, as a general rule, I would not go out of my way to own any music that I could hear on TV, in a club - bear in mind Southampton clubs - on the radio, on a jukebox, or round a mate's place. I consider that music to be public access. It's not that I didn't like it, I just prefer it to be something I come across by accident, which enhances my appreciation no end. It's partly a reactionary stance against the fact that a lot of people told me I needed to like certain stuff, as if it belonged to some kind of hallowed canon of material that was beyond reproach. I had no problem with the artists concerned, just that it seemed everyone was intent on recycling the same old influences over and over and over again.

So I went after new experiences, trying to find music that hadn't been meticulously documented and spat at me at every opportunity. Bear in mind that I mean new to me. Something that I'm discovering for myself will be old hat to a great deal of people - the music that I perceive to be *canon* is dictated by my local environment, and can be very different to that of other people.

The music I'll shout about is usually fantastic stuff that's new to my experience. Pop has enough champions. It's not that I dislike it. It's just that I won't always give it space in my record collection, and that it's pointless trying to enthusiastically introduce people to stuff they've already heard.

A reminder that my definition of pop is that of the first paragraph. In the original sense, everything listed in this thread could be termed as pop. But that's just my perspective from behind my stack of Morton Feldman records.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:45 / 04.01.03
Hater.
 
 
Seth
10:53 / 04.01.03
Lover. I'm selective about long-term partners but have the odd flirt or fling with a beautiful tune that's a fraction of my age.
 
 
The Strobe
11:57 / 04.01.03
To go back to Girls Aloud: no, I'm a hater. I cannot stand the fricking track. That said, it does have that whole surf-guitar thing which is rather seductive... but than swathes it in shit so deep I can't bear it.

You can go back to the big-discussion thingy now.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:06 / 04.01.03
You know, I've always disliked the term "hater", because it comes from this warped and delusional feeling that if someone doesn't like you or something, there's something wrong with them. I can't understand the point of focusing on people who dislike you/something you like so much - it's just a silly waste of energy, don't you think?
 
 
Quireboy
16:19 / 04.01.03
I like that on popbitch someone claims that Girls Aloud have become such demanding divas that their stylists call them 'For Crying Out Loud'. Other than that they're vile, but I like Pink despite the fact she's just Pret a Manger or Starbucks compared to Britney who's McDonalds or Pepsi (or should that be Coke seeing she never quite got the hang of that $50m sponsership deal).
 
 
The Falcon
16:38 / 04.01.03
You know, I've always disliked the term "hater", because it comes from this warped and delusional feeling that if someone doesn't like you or something, there's something wrong with them. I can't understand the point of focusing on people who dislike you/something you like so much - it's just a silly waste of energy, don't you think?

Ah, but the haters are many. And Missy/So Solid/Puffy/DJ Godfather are but few.

Haters are people who focus on disliking things/people - that's the waste of energy. Calling someone a hater takes a mere second, and they are then dismissed.

I like GA - nice Sugababes angle. BUT! Not as good as 'Cry Me A River'. Oh Chustin...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:40 / 04.01.03
People who use the word "haters" = projecting.
 
 
Old brown-eye is back
22:28 / 04.01.03
Girls Aloud, Britney etc the musical equivalent of Pepsi? Quireboy, you hater, you.

Mr Bitchlaces - regarding the rarity of pop geniuses, you've obviously been listening to the wrong shit. (Why only singles and not albums, by the way?)
 
 
Jackie Susann
01:43 / 05.01.03
Because albums are boring and for old people?

As for Flux's question - why so many ex-indie rockers seem over-invested in pop right now - I think there are a bunch of reasons. I think pop has just been really good for a few years now - better than it was for most of the 90s, at least - in large part because the division between black (urban) and white (pop proper) is breaking down and reinvigorating both genres. Even Herbert said something this year about it being a worry when the new Britney single is more interesting than most experimental music. And given most radio playlists, your taste tends to be self-reinforcing; if you start liking pop music and listen to more of it, you're unlikely to hear alternatives (just like you won't hear much *nsync on indie radio).

Second, indie is basically aimed at a young demographic, and I kind of assume that people have always passed onto mainstream pop after an indie period - but the net, and forums like ilm, have catalysed post-indie-pop-fandom into a quasi-subculture. Is there anything sadder than a middle-aged guy in a Ramones T-shirt? Tastes change, and the "aggregate of image, style and behaviour" you want from your music changes with it. At some point, indie rock fans stop needing to distinguish themselves from the kids who beat them up at school?

Of course, none of this addresses Flux's point that breaking things down into a pop/indie binary is self-defeating and reductive, but I'm not sure (outside arguments like this one) that's what people are doing. Almost nobody agrees where the dividing line is anyway - are the Vines, Avril, So Solid, the Strokes, Jay-Z, Wu-Tang, etc. pop or indie? It's a subjective judgement in a glut of micro-genres and hallucinated mainstreams.

I haven't heard the Girls Aloud track, though - I think we miss out on most of the English Popstar acts in Oz. But have you guys heard Selwyn (huge Aussie r&b star who was rejected from the second series of Popstars because he didn't fit with the judges' "concept")?
 
 
A
11:37 / 05.01.03
Heaven forbid a middle-aged guy should wear a Ramones shirt! Who ever heard of such a thing? No-one past their mid-thirties should dare do anything as foolish as wearing a t-shirt bearing the logo of a band whose music they enjoy, especially if the band is as as passe as the Ramones. I mean, there's not even any post-underground irony there, is there? The things we hip young fashion-police-officers have to put up with, I tell you.
 
 
rizla mission
11:59 / 05.01.03
Is there anything sadder than a middle-aged guy in a Ramones T-shirt?


a middle-aged guy NOT in a Ramones T-shirt?
 
 
rizla mission
12:01 / 05.01.03
Anyway, the Ramones are the fucking definition of "pop"..
 
 
pointless and uncalled for
12:05 / 05.01.03
There is no new punk, punk is the new homogeny.
 
 
Seth
12:23 / 05.01.03
Saying that "something is the new something else" is the new dip-shittery passing for critique. Which doesn't even begin to point out that your post is utter rubbish.
 
  

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