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BARBELITH: PERSONAL AND GLOBAL WORKINGS

 
  

Page: 12345(6)

 
 
Papess
20:40 / 30.05.05
I just want to say at this point that this all came about because of my objection to using the Egregore Barbelith once again. Where has that group working gone?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:21 / 30.05.05
I very much hope that you will understand that I am approaching this from the position of observer.

Firstly I will make my position clear so that you understand that I am unbiased. I have followed this thread from the beginning. I was never involved with the transducer or with any of the workings that you are discussing in this thread but I followed these workings from the beginning.

This thread has become circular, both of you are repeating yourselves and understandably becoming frustrated with one another.

These are the facts that I can ascertain:
Seth has made it clear that
1)he was not involved with the transducer other than as a consultant
2)that Strix asked him to consult on the matter,
3)that it was in no way his intention to detract from the Peace Mango working
4)that he is sorry if you felt that was his intention.
5)that he is willing to start a thread asking for help wrt the transducer and the best course of action that can now be taken concerning it.

The question then Strix, is what precisely do you want from him? Bear in mind that he has offered to start another thread focusing on the transducer, which considering that you feel he has influence is the best possible thing that he can do.

Strix you feel
1)that the transducer is producing negativity
2)that you have not been supported
3)that you have had to take sole responsibility for the transducer
4)that you have been slandered
5)that the best course of action is to contact people individually (as suggested by xyu)

I understand that you are desperate for some help, that is coming across clearly in your posts. You have already accepted the best course of action is to individually ask a number of people originally involved to help you, would you like a new and less confused thread calling for help as well? That would seem more practical then asking people to continue to follow this particular argument.

I agree with you that those who were involved with the transducer and are still around should at the very least discuss this sensibly with you. There is a responsibility that comes with magical workings of any kind to step up if other people involved feel they are reaping bad effects. I would also suggest that you explain specifically the negativity that you have experienced and the effects of that negativity, not for purposes of emotional blackmail but because this will help people to consider the need that you feel. Trouser the Trouserian's article is certainly something to explore with a fine tooth comb as it seems to be a way of reducing this down to something manageable.

The fact that you feel you have been slandered is beside the point when you are addressing Seth who has not slandered you to the best of my knowledge (I feel that frustration is rather different from slander). In fact he stated that he liked you. Seth, perhaps it's time for you to step back from the thread?

I hope that you don't take offense, I am not judging either of you, I think this is a conversation started with the best intentions but propelled by negative emotion and I hope that I have helped rather then hindered you as that is definitely not my purpose in contributing to this thread. I also hope that no one else thinks I'm stepping on their toes. You are both valued members of this board, neither of you has done wrong but I don't think you are hearing each other's agitation and perhaps you should consider taking a step back and thinking about the problems outlined here with a clear head. To that aim a new thread would be a good idea.
 
 
Seth
21:24 / 30.05.05
I started reading the last three posts, but it's nothing that hasn't already been answered before.

I'm done with this. I've said all that's needed.
 
 
Papess
05:26 / 31.05.05
I understand that you are desperate for some help, that is coming across clearly in your posts. You have already accepted the best course of action is to individually ask a number of people originally involved to help you, would you like a new and less confused thread calling for help as well? That would seem more practical then asking people to continue to follow this particular argument.

Yes, I do agree with that.

I agree with you that those who were involved with the transducer and are still around should at the very least discuss this sensibly with you. There is a responsibility that comes with magical workings of any kind to step up if other people involved feel they are reaping bad effects.

That just needs repeating.

I would also suggest that you explain specifically the negativity that you have experienced and the effects of that negativity, not for purposes of emotional blackmail but because this will help people to consider the need that you feel.

I intend to do this in the thread dedicated to solving the issues regarding Transducer.

Trouser the Trouserian's article is certainly something to explore with a fine tooth comb as it seems to be a way of reducing this down to something manageable.

I will definately give it a read.

The fact that you feel you have been slandered is beside the point when you are addressing Seth who has not slandered you to the best of my knowledge (I feel that frustration is rather different from slander).

The only reason it is relevant is because it has been stated that people "lost interest" in Transducer. Did they really, or were they wary about being connected with me in some way? I think it is highly plausible that people didn't do anything further with Transducer because of that slander. (I also never implied that slander was from Seth.) It would be a shame if the irresposiblity to do anything regarding Transducer stemmed from such ridiculous politics.

BTW, most of that slander did come from one person on the board. Eventually that someone accused me of cursing them, which was certainly not true. However, people might have been influenced by such accusations and the fact this person was so down on Tranducer, perhaps because they were biased about me.

With that said, I didn't think that if I started a thread to work out the issues regarding Transducer, that anyone would feel inclined to work with me or ze. Hence, I asked for assistance. I was accused of leading the Peace Mango working for personal gain, what I am not certain, but I didn't want to risk being accused of such a thing by drawing attention to myself with yet another thread started by me.

Gah! [sarcasm]The fame and glory I have recieved due to the Transducer working has propelled me to such great heights. Please, save your applause and just send me money.[/sarcasm]

In fact he stated that he liked you.

Uhm, pardon my cynicism, but people have told me they loved me and have betrayed me before.

I hope that you don't take offense, I am not judging either of you, I think this is a conversation started with the best intentions but propelled by negative emotion...

It is this constant negativity that crops up around Transducer that concerns me. I certainly don't take offence to your response, and I don't feel judged by you either.

...and I hope that I have helped rather then hindered you as that is definitely not my purpose in contributing to this thread. I also hope that no one else thinks I'm stepping on their toes. You are both valued members of this board, neither of you has done wrong but I don't think you are hearing each other's agitation and perhaps you should consider taking a step back and thinking about the problems outlined here with a clear head. To that aim a new thread would be a good idea.

Yes, it is. I am sorting out the details of it on paper first.
 
 
Babooshka
08:54 / 31.05.05
BTW, most of that slander did come from one person on the board. Eventually that someone accused me of cursing them, which was certainly not true. However, people might have been influenced by such accusations and the fact this person was so down on Tranducer, perhaps because they were biased about me. - May Tricks/"Strix"

I find it very interesting that you accuse me of "slander", May, since you've basically regurgitated every concern I originally brought up to you in 2003 with regards to the Transducer on the last two pages of this thread without crediting me. The theory that the Transducer feeds on ill-will and dissent between members of this board was actually mine. It's amusing to see you come around to my way of thinking on the matter.

As for my accusation of your working Magick against me being "slander"; Rex concurs that it happened:

My main problem with you May is you claiming I participated in stalking Ierne using Magick. This was against my knowledge and wishes. I had no part in your ‘spell’ you placed on an innocent, stop claiming I did. I have never practiced witchcraft in my life. I resent your claim and find it libelous. – Rex, as 'libelouspursuit'

(I took the precaution of screencapping the post, but upon reflection I've taken it down as of 12 June 2005. It's superfluous to requirements at this point.)

Your present state of sad affairs – which seems to solely pertain to you and not "others who worked with the Transducer" – has all the earmarks of misapplied power returned to its sender with force. Why you insist on blaming anyone else but yourself for the results of your actions...I neither know nor care at this point.

There's a thread still on this forum which might clarify matters, for those considering working with May magickally on her current problem. Here. It's four pages long, but well worth the read if one seriously intends to devote their personal, psychic energy to a complete stranger based on her carefully constructed text on screen. Caveat Emptor.

– Ierne/Babooshka
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:02 / 31.05.05
I never got involved in either of these workings at the time cos I don't really think large scale peace workings are particularly effective. I think I said as much at the time.

As far as I remember, both of these workings were a reaction to the feelings of global distress following September 11th. People were frightened by the global situation that seemed like it could escalate into God knows what.

What happened: Two different large scale peace workings were attempted by the board.

Result: There was a war.

Conclusion: .....
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:19 / 31.05.05
I don't understand why shutting the transducer down involves devoting personal, psychic energy to Strix. We're talking about turning it off, not feeding it. It is becoming more and more clear to me that the best way to draw a line under this unfortunate series of events, that happened quite a long time ago btw, is to rid the forum of this thing.

This thread has gained a general air of hysteria that is being fed into. If I moderated this forum I would lock it now. Ierne, you are not helping in any sense. Strix stop focusing on slander, the more you do so the more you create your own atmosphere of negativity. You're dwelling on things that are better left to scab over.
 
 
Papess
16:27 / 31.05.05
Really? Ierne. You come out again, simply to slander me.

What the fuck do you have against me? I NEVER cursed you. Rex knows it. He is just making shit up in order to slander me further. You were a lovely person to work with before and during the Transducer working. You started in on both REX and MYSELF afterward. So, are you suddenly trusting his word now that he has turned against me? Because it suits your purpose?

What I sent you was a choice. Be nice or leave us alone. Where is the hex in that? I was trying to protect myself, and Rex, plus MOD3. I sent you THREE, count them, THREE, PMs. No more.

You also made accusation about Transducer, care to clarify that? You made all sorts of accusations about me; such as I have something personal to gain from Transducer. You never clarified that.

Also, that screenshot is now in a PRIVATE POST to someone's livejournal. Maybe you want to review your own ethics. Or are you Rex? The whole thing doesn't seem likely, that Ierne would even give a damn to read mine or Rex's lj. I want to get to the bottom of this.

******************************

Nina, the salnder is important, because something happened to the Transducer workings because of it. IT IS EFFECTING ME. First off. Maybe that is not good enough for anyone. Maybe people feel comfortable with that. I don't.

You are also right Nina, that it doesn't make sense that people who use Transducer would think they are working with me. However, people here run a little on the superstitious side, and it was not only myself that was slandered, but Babs here, also suggested to everyone that I had somehow tainted the Transducer.

*****************************

I am sick of this. I want to settle this. This is now no longer just about the Transducer, it IS most definately personal. I want it settled, I want answers and I am not going to shy away from defending myself.

Or else I might just draw the conclusion that Barbelith (the board) is about hurting and destroying people, and they should just quit whining and adapt.
 
 
Papess
16:46 / 31.05.05
BTW, Nina, I suggested a long time ago that we dissolve Transducer because I saw this coming.

Can you tell me also, why you suddenly feel this way, Nina? Is it because of the messiness? That is a good reason for people to shy away from working with it, since I lead the working. Especially since it was suggested that I did something to manipulate it. I saw this coming way back then which is why I wanted others to involve themselves so it wasn't identified with me, because it SHOULN'T be.

If someone were to suddenly imply that Impulsivelad (no offence meant to Impulsivelad) had tainted Gek or IMP, I know that I would think twice about using those servitors.

I want resolution. I want to clear my name and the status of Transducer.

Gypsy Lantern: Can we prove that our workings were the cause of the war?
 
 
Papess
17:49 / 31.05.05
Also, before anyone decides to lock up anything or delete it, i request that people don't opt for this. I will conclude then that there is certainly somethig that people wish to hide. However, in order to save this thread further rot, I have started a thread for Transducer here.

For personal issues with me, I will start another thread.

If, it is decided it is best to clean this thread up, (which, I couldn't blame anyone for wanting at this point) I would like to suggest that all posts be put in an archive thread for further reference.

Thank you.
 
 
penitentvandal
18:50 / 31.05.05
For the record, I participated in the original Transducer workings because I felt they were necessary. In the short term, I feel the Transducer achieved it's stated goal (it was actually launched during the Afghan war, which ended a little while later), but I felt there was no real need in prolonging it beyond a certain point. Unless a servitor is of personal use to a magician (i.e. a self-protection servitor), I feel it should be banished after a certain point, and even then there's nothing wrong with a little weeding occassionally. I certainly wasn't influenced by any comments about people on this board, slanderous or otherwise.

I think I concur that it's probably time to put the Transducer to bed. It doesn't seem to be working and it may even be being harmful. Let's face it, if we employed a person who acted like that, we'd give 'em the sack, wouldn't we? So I say we sack it.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:20 / 31.05.05
Can you tell me also, why you suddenly feel this way, Nina? Is it because of the messiness? That is a good reason for people to shy away from working with it, since I lead the working.

That doesn't strike me as a good reason to avoid shutting something down when you originally set it up Strix. For the last few pages this thread, all of your posting has steadily been characterised by a type of hysteria. I do not direct this purely at you Strix but an object like a transducer is best viewed analytically when you feel it has failed. The analytical response is to step back, stop thinking of it personally, focus purely on the object. You and Ierne have been facing off against each other for a long time, it has become a personal fight and it will and indeed is corrupting this thread and will do so beyond reason. This thread is about personal workings not personal slander. You have a choice to engage with that slander, which we have already heard your defence against or to overlook it. As an observer I would suggest that you overlook rather than continue to attend to it. The majority of people will probably only want to refrain from commenting on rather than getting involved with this fight. I certainly have no interest in it whatsoever. I couldn't care less about either of your views on what may or may not have happened quite a long time ago. Any form of address that you take, any attention that you pay to past comments will only further discourage people from shutting down the transducer because they will perceive you as someone responding only emotively. You have chosen to continue to contribute to barbelith, there is no problem with that but I should seriously consider whether you feel there's any need to continue this fight, an old fight, something that will not be resolved and indeed whether it is in your best interests to do so. This only calls attention to a reason that you feel led to people abandoning this working. Step away from this thread, look away from the past, start a new thread detailing only what you believe needs to be done, why it needs to be done, how it can be done and what will come of shutting the transducer done. Focus on the transducer.

I would lock this thread for all of the reasons related to the above and because I would rather it was locked then deleted. When a thread in a forum targetted purely towards the subjects that the Temple forum engages in degenerates into a thread about the perceived disturbance between two people I do not think that thread should continue.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
19:22 / 31.05.05
And just to clarify, by 'best interests' I mean wrt your emotional state, it is not in anyway a threat.
 
 
Olulabelle
19:35 / 31.05.05
I think that a Temple moderator not directly involved in Peace Mango needs to contact all those still on the board who were involved in it, to see if they can agree to perform something similar to Mordant's approach (*see below) in releasing themselves from it. I am suggesting each person do this individually since there obviously seem to be a few problems with any kind of group appproach.

Then I think this thread needs locking. I don't know what we can do with the beginning of the thread and for discussion on global working; perhaps we can start a new thread which links to this, but which should only be for relevant replies.

Discussion on Peace Mango could continue to happen in the new thread Strix has made, although I'm not sure of the value of a public knicker-wash for anyone concerned. Perhaps any further discussion of who said what, and when, and why could happen by PM if it's so crucial, although personally I think everyone should take a deep breath and try not to retaliate to what they percieve to be online criticism.

Nina is right. This is going round and round with no resolve, and is doing no-one any good. I think that the most important thing is to resolve the critical issue in the thread - the dissolution of Peace Mango. We do need a Temple mod to initiate this, someone not involved in the original creation. Any offers?

*"Pretty much what I'd do at the end of a healing sesh, I suppose; I just decided that I was no longer connected to it, and to be on the safe side I picked up my imaginary ceremonial sword and sliced through any imaginary ties."
 
 
Papess
19:38 / 31.05.05
I am going to use my new thread to address the Transducer issues.
 
  

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