BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Kill Bill - Tarantino's Latest

 
  

Page: 12(3)45

 
 
diz
16:42 / 18.10.03
I suppose what he's really good at is taking the good things from all the movies he likes and putting them together into one.

i don't see this as a negative. to me, this sort of makes him a sort of film equivalent of a hip-hop DJ, building new songs out of pieces of old songs. sampling is really probably the defining technique of our times, to me.

That takes skill, despite the fact that he really doesn't seem to have any original ideas of his own.

no one has any original ideas of their own. it's all about new combinations and mutations.
 
 
diz
16:43 / 18.10.03
very nice wallpaper, CameronStewart! thank you!
 
 
CameronStewart
21:44 / 18.10.03
And here's a drawing of Gogo Yubari for good measure.
 
 
Seth
22:02 / 18.10.03
Good God Cam. That's awesome. Do you mind if I make it into a T-shirt?
 
 
CameronStewart
22:26 / 18.10.03
Hmmm. Contact me privately about that....

cms @ cameron-stewart.com
 
 
Sexy Legendary
13:19 / 19.10.03
saw it last night.

style over substance? confusion between samurai and ninja philosophies? cheesy dialogue?

don't honestly give a shit. first film i've been to see in ages where i've resisted the temptation to drain the old weasel halfway through.

favourite multiplex filler movie in a long, long time.

go see and make your own minds up, i reckon.

oh and cam: am loving the kb illustrations. any plans for daryl hannah w/ red cross eye patch? oh and i can't wait for seaguy.
 
 
illmatic
18:21 / 19.10.03
Cameron, that's awesome. I may tattoo it to my forearm. Saw it last night, abolutely fucking great. I felt before I saw it that I might want more backstory, but given the cartoony feel, I didn't find it necessary. I thought the tension and use of pace in the film was masterful. Unlike the huge fight scene in Matrix Reloaded it didn't get boring. Whil I can appreciate the arguement that he's derivative, Tarentino seems to have a love for pop culture and a way of packing it back that's just perfect. I found the cliff hanger the most frustrating thing ever as I wasn't expecting it. Arrrggghhh!!

Wiggle Your Big Toe

Isn't this a homage to a John Wayne film? Anyone know which one?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
18:27 / 19.10.03
I love this movie. It's been released at exactly the right time- I can never get over Tarantino's ability to catch an atmosphere. The lack of speech felt like a commentary of the present as well as this big silly reference to Hong Kong, Chop, Chinese martial art comedy... it even had a big nod to the head to those ridiculous Z movie Ninja films from the late '80s.

Uma Thurman was perfect, so was everyone else and woo! blood! blood! everywhere. The control scenes were my favourite bits, Seth mentioned four years and I adored that. The chat with the little girl, the... oh, I just loved it. I want more.

I have never seen a Japanese film become an American film and Tarantino's achieved that. I don't think it's insane to say that I think he's the only director atm who could.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:31 / 19.10.03
Oh man, I just saw this with Todd last night, and I loved it. I wasn't expecting much, and it totally blew me away.

It could be one of the most deadpan, absurd, ridiculous, and strangely beautiful films ever made. I'm dying to see the next one.

In terms of cinematic violence, it made the second Matrix movie look like even more of a joke. It never felt less than exciting, it always felt visceral, and it never made violence seem painless. It was pretty much as good as it gets.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:32 / 19.10.03
Also...

Gogo : Kill Bill :: Boba Fett : the original Star Wars trilogy
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:40 / 19.10.03
Oh, and I don't really agree that this film was all about 'image.' It is quite beautifully shot and the images on screen are consistently well composed and everything looks great, but that doesn't seem to be the entire point.

I think the whole thing is essentially a comedy. Am I alone in feeling that way? I'm pretty sure that Todd and Lolita Nation would agree with me on this. It's a joycore movie, that's for sure.
 
 
Seth
20:57 / 19.10.03
I'd say it's a comedy, yeah. And like all the best comedies, the humour is only part of what's on offer.

The guy that Go Go stabs in the groin in that bar: that's the same guy from Wild Zero, isn't it? He's kinda funny looking, the Japanese Steve Buscemi.
 
 
rakehell
04:18 / 20.10.03
This sounds really bitchy and it's not supposed to be, but if I had never seen any asian cinema I would have though this movie kicked arse. As it was, I was left feeling somewhat hollow.
 
 
illmatic
07:09 / 20.10.03
Rakehell: Well, perhaps you should start a thread with some recommendations?
 
 
Seth
07:16 / 20.10.03
rakehell: that only works if you ignore all the elements that have nothing to do with Asian cinema (many of the camera moves, the script, the soundtrack, some of the acting styles, the narrative devices). I don't mean to sound bitchy, though - it's not like you've selected your reading of the movie and glossed over any elements that didn't fit the pattern.
 
 
Jack Vincennes
11:28 / 20.10.03
I loved this -as everyone else has said, it looked amazing from start to finish. It wasn't just the obviously amazing things either (the fight scenes, Uma Thurman in yellow motorcycle leathers) -all the details were lovely as well. Particularly liked the proprietress at the House Of Blue Leaves slipping around the bloodstained floor in her heels...

As has been mentioned, the fights, and in particular the first in the film (I thought) were very visceral -even though they were obviously meant to be showy, there was still the impression that every time someone was hit it was actually painful. And Go Go terrified me. But then, I'm easy to terrify, and hence probably not the most sensitive of litmus tests when it comes to this kind of thing.

The anime was gorgeous too. I think I need to stop now, or I'll just list every scene in the film.

"That's what you get for hanging around with Yakuza! Now go home to your mother!"
 
 
Tryphena Absent
12:26 / 20.10.03
I love the way the film kinda mixes American determination with the staples of Japanese cinema... Gogo and Hattori. And on the pain/comedy front, those shots of Sophie crawling around on the floor with one arm while the houge fight scene went on!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
13:12 / 20.10.03
Gorgeous wallpaper, Cameron.

Went to see this last night with mono and Boy in a Suitcase... and it rocked. HARD. That was a truly joyful moviegoing experience- like watching eight or nine of the best movies ever all at once. And the fact that all around you could hear sudden intakes of breath and whispered exclamations for once didn't mean that people were shagging in the row behind you- it meant they were enjoying the movie.

I'm just pissed off it's gonna be at least a week until I can afford to see it again...
 
 
Ethan Hawke
13:37 / 20.10.03
You know the only thing that could make Vol.2 better? Zombies. Maybe a Zombie Lucy Liu. Dammit, I want more Lucy Liu! It's just not fair that she had to die so soon.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:18 / 20.10.03
Isn't the Bride sort of a zombie?

I wish there was going to be more Lucy Lui too. Darryl Hannah et al don't seem nearly as compelling as Orin Ishi I, eye patch notwithstanding.
 
 
The Strobe
16:54 / 20.10.03
Mmn. That was fun. Visually, five stars; overall, four. I really enjoyed it - to me, it had the feel of manga in many ways: lots and lots of detailed action covering relatively small amount of plot. The episodic set-up is nice, though, as it allows Tarantino to cover his plot pretty fast, and concentrate on the action.

Mmn. Action. The boy can direct action. Great editing, great eye for action and sequence, and (unlike the already-mentioned-Matrix Reloaded), NONE of the action scenes seemed to long. Great acting all around - it may be a pastiche of older Oriental movies, but the acting from both West and East was top notch - special props go to Uma's bottom lip in the House of Blue Leaves. So much conveyed in little facial tics.

Hurrah for gore, too. I felt the violence was well handled. It's not cartoon violence; it's real violence with cartoonish results. The attack on the Bride, and the Buck's-head sequence are the two really jarring moments - and full credit to them too, because they damn well ought to be jarring.

Oh the anime. I want a full-length O-Ren anime, now. Perfect - as Seth said, incredibly beautiful, and what depiction of blood.

I think the press is always sometimes unfair to QT; he might have captured a particular moment in the nineties, but he's a good all-round filmmaker: good eye for action, the previously-demonstrated good ear for dialgoue, and I am a big fan of Jackie Brown, both as movie and as adaptation. Kill Bill is a very solid, very enjoable, and immaculately constructed movie. QT cares about his visuals, his details, his soundtrack, and that care comes over.

It's a shame the two halves weren't left together; the film is edited very well and never feels like a film chopped in two, save for the fact the Bride is halfway down the list. I know 200 minutes is a long while, but given the large chunks of violence to break up small doses of plot, I don't think there'd be too much for any sensible audience. So I have to reserve full judgment until Vol. 2 comes out. Until that time: a very, very good movie. I love it when that good ol' 18 certificate is used to its full potential.
 
 
Quimper
17:31 / 20.10.03
I'm amazed by this flick. Just like Winston Wolf, totally f*cking cool. What I really liked was admist all the gore and revenge and merciliessness, there was this underlying respect and honor between the characters—Vernita serving coffee, not killing The Bride in her sleep, O-Ren's apology, the Hattori/Bride conversation. Beautiful stuff.

Scenes I really hope we see: how the Bride became part of Fox Force...um, the Deadly Viper Squad and what happened during her month of training.
 
 
Spaniel
19:59 / 20.10.03
And at least one of your wishes will be answered.

Volume 2? I'm pretty sure we'll be heading further into spaghetti western territory.
 
 
The Strobe
21:15 / 20.10.03
Oh yeah - visual synchronicity: dead-Gogo, blood pouring out of eyes :: dead-Lady-Deathstrike, adamantium pouring out of eyes. It just struck me hard, round the head.
 
 
Spaniel
22:29 / 20.10.03
Elle and Budd, they're another kind of bad. Very different from ORen et al - truly a bunch of horrid bastards. I doubt anyone will be disappointed.

Christ, I'm rereading the second half as I type. Bloody good, and quite differnt tonally.
 
 
Spaniel
22:49 / 20.10.03
Oh yes, Pai Mei, er... very, very nasty.
 
 
at the scarwash
23:07 / 20.10.03
I'm kind of amazed that this film has avoided a savage Peruvian Death Squad style critical hatchet job so far. My thoughts on it are not organized enough to say very much, but since no one else seems to be opening up on it like a climactic Peckinpah shootout, I'll try my aim.

Yuen Wo-Ping: Totally fucking wasted. The sheer volume of the killing makes watching the damn thing a chore in the first place, and when 60% of the interest of a fight scene for me lies in the choreography, a directors insistence upon filming half of the fights in tight closeup kind of kills it for me. Also, Kill Bill is probably the most boring thing I've ever seen Yuen do. Nothing lives up to Fist of Legend in my opinion for just fucking jizz-in-your-pants awesomeness, but we're not dealing with athletically-trained actors, right? Well, he did a lot better work with Crouching Tiger.

Which Brings me to Gordon Liu. Also totally fucking wasted. Having Gordon Liu do a cameo in your kung fu tribute flick is like having Ornette Coleman sit in on kazoo with your high school woodwind ensemble. So why give such an icon this ridiculously short amount of screentime, and waste him in a few seconds of rather dull fight choreography?

Talking about dialog and character development is really fucking silly. It is a revenge play, and it does that job admirably. I do think it's interesting that all of Lucy Liu's acting (aside from her boardroom decapitation rant) is done by a bad cartoon. Considering how much time is devoted to her in the script, Oren Ishii doesn't have very much screentime of importance. Also, the obvious parallels between Oren and the Bride's quests for revenge are not even touched upon, a source of dramatic tension that really could have been exploited to great effect. I'm not asking for modernist narrative storytelling here--just take advantage of what's right there in front of you in your own god damned script, Quent.

Tons of offensively stereotyped characters. I know it's a cartoon with real people, but the amount of originality put into them takes up approximately the amount of space between one line of coke and the next, that being most likely where they were concieved. Buck who likes to Fuck? Texas boy. You know they're all a goddamn bunch of borderline necrophiliacs who live in trailerparks and do meth (which, unlike cocaine, does not make you a smarter or a better person). And he's from Huntsville, see? Where us barbarous Texans put people to death by lethal injection, for those three of you who didn't catch that scathing political broadside, hot from the benzedrine-polished decks of the S.S. Tarantino.

I don't even want to touch Vivica Fox. How she sleeps, I don't know. The women in this film are not even cartoons of women. They are the deranged abstractions of the fantasies of a B cinema-addled 12 year-old who got dropped on the head a couple times too many as an infant.

Wow. Reading back over that, Kill Bill is starting to sound kind of good.

I will say that there were moments and lines and scenes that I enjoyed. Boy's got skills, when he stops to think about things. Darryl Hanna's split screen assasination attempt in the hospital was a very special piece of filmmaking. The soundtrack was super hot. "That tall drink of cocksucker ain't dead" was almost witty in context, as was the array of sunglasses of the dash of the sherriff's car. The Seijun Suzuki feel of the entry into Tokyo was nice, if not really revolutionary. I feel like I know what Tarantino was trying to do here. I would have really loved to see the movie that he thinks this is, because I love the same filmic archetypes that he does. I can feel around the edges of what he was trying to create, and I think it was a really good idea. It just came out misshapen, stillborn, and dull.

And he uses way too much coke. There is no other excuse for this sort of thing. If I was snowed-in like Vermont in January when I saw this, I would have been hooting like a rabid mandrill, or some other like-minded primate. I'm sure that's what the editing room sounded like: "*snnnrrggt* OHMIGODIMSUCHAJEENYUSSSS!!" If you'd told me before that QT was just hyperactive and exciteable, I would have bought it. After seeing Kill Bill, I feel sure I know who needs a new septum for Christmas.
 
 
Spaniel
23:17 / 20.10.03
God, I repent. I feel so stupid.

Or maybe not...

Altogether now, bring on the fucking joycore!
 
 
CameronStewart
04:34 / 21.10.03
>>> Having Gordon Liu do a cameo in your kung fu tribute flick is like having Ornette Coleman sit in on kazoo with your high school woodwind ensemble. So why give such an icon this ridiculously short amount of screentime, and waste him in a few seconds of rather dull fight choreography?<<<

You're aware, of course, that Gordon Liu plays *another* character, the white-haired Chinese master Pei Mei, in Volume 2? His total screentime across the two films won't be "ridiculously short."
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
11:48 / 21.10.03
Roger Ebert doesn't just understand the greatness of Kill Bill, but he also seems to have a pretty solid grasp of the Joycore too.

Key bits:

"Kill Bill: Volume 1" is not the kind of movie that inspires discussion of the acting, but what Thurman, Fox and Liu accomplish here is arguably more difficult than playing the nuanced heroine of a Sundance thumb-sucker. There must be presence, physical grace, strength, personality and the ability to look serious while doing ridiculous things.

..

There is a sequence in which O-Ren Ishii takes command of the Japanese Mafia and beheads a guy for criticizing her as half-Chinese, female and American. O-Ren talks Japanese through a translator but when the guy's head rolls on the table everyone seems to understand her. Soon comes the deadly battle with The Bride, on a two-level set representing a Japanese restaurant. Tarantino has the wit to pace this battle with exterior shots of snowfall in an exquisite formal garden. Why must the garden be in the movie? Because gardens with snow are iconic Japanese images, and Tarantino is acting as the instrument of his received influences.

By the same token, Thurman wears a costume identical to one Bruce Lee wore in his last film. Is this intended as coincidence, homage, impersonation? Not at all. It can be explained by quantum physics: The suit can be in two movies at the same time. And when the Hannah character whistles the theme from "Twisted Nerve" (1968), it's not meant to suggest she is a Hayley Mills fan but that leakage can occur between parallel universes in the movies. Will "Volume 2" reveal that Mr. Bill used to be known as Mr. Blonde?
 
 
Mystery Gypt
18:59 / 21.10.03
roger ebert uses the concept "leakage between parallel universes?"

i'm impressed.
 
 
at the scarwash
20:21 / 21.10.03
Okay, so I didn't read the script. Just riffing here. So that tosses out my point about Gordon Liu.

I'm having a problem also with the fusion between the Bushido ethos espoused by several of the characters with the Sergio Leone-style amoral antihero. It can be opined that Leone was building on the Ronin archetype developed by Kurosawa, but his characters son't seem to really abide by any particular code. Eli Wallach gets left in the desert in The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly when Clint gets tired of him. I feel like these two morality systems are sitting together in the main characters of Kill Bill in a very disjointed and undeveloped way.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
20:32 / 21.10.03
Roger Ebert = probably the best critic in America. He's a smart guy. Don't let the fact that he's on tv and somewhat famous fool you. He's an excellent writer, and a brilliant and fair critic.
 
 
Spaniel
08:22 / 22.10.03
I feel like these two morality systems are sitting together in the main characters of Kill Bill in a very disjointed and undeveloped way.

Only out of interest, I cannot be swayed, can you give examples? When and where does this tension manifest? At what point does it become problematical for the character?
 
 
at the scarwash
19:25 / 22.10.03
I guess for me the point that really brings the bushido/amorality tension out the most is the lack of any evidence of sympathy between the characters of Oren and the Bride. Oren has had a similar tragic history, and we see no awareness of that in her comportment with the Bride. We assume that they function under similar "codes." Honor and circumstance dictate that they kill each other, I suppose. But I think that some indication of their mutual awareness of their shared circumstances would have helped tame this contradiction for me.
 
  

Page: 12(3)45

 
  
Add Your Reply