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Kill Bill - Tarantino's Latest

 
  

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ill tonic
23:32 / 08.10.03
hey Uncle Retro ... how was the ending? Did it just leave you hanging like Matrix 2 or did it feel like a complete package?
 
 
Spaniel
00:03 / 09.10.03
For fuck's sake, have sense.

You know the thing about splitting movies in half? It has fuck all to do with the director.

Flux, I am most assuredly suspect because I'm desperate to see this movie.
 
 
nowthink
11:05 / 09.10.03
has anyone ever SEEN Quentin Tarantino?
That is one UGLY Sumbitch.

That being said, I respect his film-making.
and I want to bang vivica fox,
and lucy liu, and the school girl chick.

anyway-I'll check this out in two days...
 
 
lolita nation
06:42 / 10.10.03
I screened this tonight at my job, and I thought it was amazing. I hate on Tarantino just like everyone else, but I thought there were some really stellar parts of this film. It is extraordinarily violent, but as a genre send-up, it wears its violence well, until the end at least - the film's first three acts are just stuffed with little artificial or "meta" touches - subtitles, voiceovers, flashbacks, slow motion, wipes, dissolves, freeze frames, a cartoon, it's even divided into chapters - you know, all of these conventional shortcuts that stylize the gore... but even all that cheekiness didn't support its last bloodbath for me, which was so long and over-the-top that it made me queasy.

I respect his film-making.
and I want to bang vivica fox,
and lucy liu, and the school girl chick.


i guess there have to be people who want to see it for this & for the gore, & a self-aware movie is not necessarily an intelligent one, but I went in expecting to look down my nose at the "look! chicks fighting!" charlies-angels-type crap and the "shocking" tarantino violence, & Kill Bill may not transcend those modes but it is concerned with them, in what I thought was a well-shot, well-edited way. but I may just be an idiot.
 
 
The Falcon
19:48 / 10.10.03
I think it's cooler if you say it's a Klingon proverb.
 
 
Seth
08:42 / 11.10.03
The Raza

Was this meant to be funny, too? Go back to your desk and write Ruler Zig-zag-zig Allah one hundred times.

an old Klingon proverb

Pretty sure Khan was just a bloke. Human bloke, that is.
 
 
Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo
01:27 / 12.10.03
The line in ST II that Kahn says is "The Klingons have an old proverb. 'Revenge is a dish best served cold.' It is very cold in space."

I liked it.

But I like QT.
 
 
Seth
07:33 / 12.10.03
Fair enough old bean. Been a while since I saw that movie. I guess it also continues the running joke about Klingons appropriating texts from other cultures and claiming them as their own. Because you haven't experienced Shakespeare until you've read him in the original Klingon...
 
 
uncle retrospective
10:08 / 12.10.03
how was the ending? Did it just leave you hanging like Matrix 2 or did it feel like a complete package?

The ending worked much better than I thought it would, there looks to be a change over point in the film and that made a solid enough ending. You do leave the cimena going "Get me the next Vol. Now!"

Oh I meant The RZA. Damn typos.
 
 
CameronStewart
01:22 / 13.10.03
Here's something interesting I noticed when looking at the trailers on the soundtrack cd.



The rings aren't identical, but they're very similar, and thinking back it seems as though there was deliberate effort to show the ring in both shots. Can we infer from this that Bill took part in the murder of O-Ren Ishii's parents? Bill was a student of Hattori Hanzo, so we know he was in Japan, and the anime character looks about how old Bill would have been 30-odd years ago...

Guess we'll find out in Vol. 2.
 
 
LDones
07:29 / 13.10.03
After reading your post, Cameron, I went back and checked the blue-haired man's sword (seen very clearly when sticking out of O-Ren's father's head) - Definitely not the Hanzo sword with the Devil head he's holding while talking to Darryl Hannah. But he does have that young Carradine-ish hair, though.... it wouldn't surprise me. And he might not have received the Hanzo sword yet...
 
 
Bastard Tweed
07:33 / 13.10.03
I just saw this film tonight and my reaction was a curious one.

While I loved the fights, the soundtrack/score, the animation sequence, most of the performances, and much of the design work; I still left the theatre with a vaguely icky feeling, the source of which I couldn't quite put my finger on. It certainly wasn't the violence; I eat up Peckinpah with a big ol' spoon. It wasn't the "volume one" I only get to watch half of the actual movie clause; I kind of enjoy the whole return to serialisation in films, extra cost aside. It took me an hour to put my finger on where the ickiness came from.

It was Tarantino.

He winks like Nic Cage portraying a man with a nervous tic. It was probably the dialogue more than anything else that did it. Yeah, I realise he was doing a tribute to/pastiche of wuxia chop-socky films but for me that's only acceptable in an actual low budget, shot-in-a-flash chop-socky film. At least they have a bit of an excuse. When you've employed artists as skilled as Uma Thurman, Yuen Wo Ping, and RZA doing such bang em up jobs, throwing in dialogue as wooden as that is only jarringly incongruous. Either follow-through on the monstrously superb talent your notoriety and money have provided you or don't bother. Maybe it's just that I've seen enough good films of this ilk (White Haired Bride, a few of the Lone Wolf and Cub serial) that makes me feel working in "genre pastiche" doesn't give one proper justification to dick around with shite dialogue. When your fights are as poetically elegant as the ones arranged by sai Yuen don't you kind of owe it to him to match him stroke for stroke with your writing? Maybe I'm just a snob but I get so fucking tired of the meta-fictive sniggering of, "See, see? I wrote it bad on purpose because I'm so smart and hip, see?"

Oh well. Feel free to gouge away at the shameless upstart that I am.
 
 
saroeb
08:17 / 13.10.03
So looking forward to this, opens here this week.

Going to see it for what it is, with no pre-conceptions, I read all your comments but I'll make me own mind up then report back.

QT was on Jonathan Ross last week and boy what a geek he is hehe he spends his entire life watching movies, a true fanboy so I expect a ton of nerdy film references littered throughout.

Love him or hate him theres no doubting he has talent and I am one fan truly looking forward to another sensational unique experience
 
 
Rage
09:05 / 13.10.03
SEE

THIS

MOVIE

NOW

It's the best film ever made.
 
 
diz
12:52 / 13.10.03
**SPOILERS**

Uma Thurman gets fucked over, hard.

SHE KILLS EVERYONE.

the end - to be continued.

sosososogood
 
 
some guy
13:44 / 13.10.03
Saw this over the weekend - very watchable and magnificently put together. And yet also completely vacant. Kill Bill = Charlie's Angels III. Tarantino = McG. The trademark dialogue is shit; we've got a beautiful two-hour music video and nothing else. Another style-over-substance confection perfect for the Matrix set ... but then, that's not a compliment. I agree with Ebert when he said the film is essentially about its own making and nothing more. Diminishing returns from a one-trick pony stretched across 4.5 films?
 
 
diz
15:35 / 13.10.03
Saw this over the weekend - very watchable and magnificently put together. And yet also completely vacant. Kill Bill = Charlie's Angels III.

i think that, itself, is a pretty superficial comparison.

in many ways, i think a better comparison is to Lola Rennt (Run, Lola, Run). both of them are often dismissed as "style-over-substance confections," but that's completely missing the point.

most "serious" movies are still recognizably descended from stage plays. the appeal revolves around the strength of dialogue, depth of characterization, etc. which is all well and good on most levels. however, it could be argued that there's a misplaced emphasis inherent in that: it's an attempt to work in a primarily visual medium but still judge things in verbal/literary terms.

both Tom Tykwer in Lola and QT in Kill Bill essentially say "fuck all that," and i think they have a good point. film, is, essentially, a sequence of images shown in rapid succession and edited in such a way as to tell a story visually. however good any serious movie with a bunch of people talking can be (and it can be very good), that form is essentially a holdover from the days of theater and fails to fully exploit or understand the nature of film. it's like taking paint, brushes, and canvas and trying to write a novel. you can do it, sure, and it may even be good, but there are so many other possibilities for painting that aren't being explored that way.

Lola and Kill Bill, to me, are examples of a different kind of movie-making, which endeavors to be serious artwork while simulataneously rejecting the traditional literary/verbal paradigm in favor of a more stripped-down, raw cinema that focuses on images and motion, while also grounding the movie in the pure Pop context which really reflects what movies are in our culture. this is not to say that they're the only examples, or the first examples, but they are both good examples.

they are both purely about image, but the whole point is that that's not bad in and of itself. on the contrary, the false notion that cinema can and should solely be judged by literary/verbal standards is the problem. this is a celebration of the image, and it's strangely overdue considering that movies are images, despite the fact that many movie-makers seem to be somewhat ashamed of that for some odd reason.

Kill Bill is a really bold, liberating release from standards which are in many ways poorly suited to a visual medium. it's visual storytelling at its finest.
 
 
lolita nation
16:14 / 13.10.03
Kill Bill is to Charlie's Angels what Pulp Fiction attempted to be to French New Wave, I think. But I haven't seen Charlie's Angels.

Has anyone here seen Truffaut's The Bride Wore Black? I haven't seen it all the way through, but I was wondering if anyone else thought the similarities were really obvious.
 
 
some guy
16:29 / 13.10.03
I don't see much similarity between Lola Rennt and Kill Bill aside from the purely superficial. Lola includes a human element more or less absent from the Tarantino film, which is closer to Charlie's Angels II and the work of McG than anything else I can think of at the moment.

I can appreciate that the film is "purely about image" but in that case the notion of volumes is ridiculously self-indulgent. This sounds to me like a defense of the last resort, because I daresay that fans will object to placing the film closer to the work of McG than Tykwer in the continuum, and are likely to get into discussions of the depth of the story (already painfully embarrasing with the "purely about image" trainwrecks that are the Matrix films). Perhaps Tarantino ought to direct music videos instead?
 
 
gridley
16:41 / 13.10.03
I quite liked it, but found myself dozing off a few times during the scene with the 88 yakuza. perhaps that band should have kept playing during the fight to keep me alert....
 
 
superdonkey
16:42 / 13.10.03
finally something I feel compelled to respond to! (hi)

I saw Cremaster 3 and Kill Bill on the same day. The two movie going experiences were about as different from one another as possible. Overall, I liked Cremaster3, though it tried my patience and awakeness for the first half. Right before the intermission (the decaying horse race) it picked up and brought me back into it. There were so many amazing images it's hard to dislike the movie, even though it really is waaay too long in many places. I'm glad i saw it, even if enjoying it was intellectual work. It's worth it to work for your entertainment/art. KillBill, on the other hand was pure enjoyment from start to finish, again amazing visuals, but you know, linear (by comparison) and fast paced. And ninjas. QT is still in mastery of his powers, and the only thing i wish was different about this film was that it was the full 3 hours. poor GOGO.. I so wanted her to be around for later.

Anyhow, this movie was really perfect for me. it was everything i was hoping it to be.. you can tell he's been really inspired to let loose by the current Asian New Wave (miike, etc), in addition to the older films he is paying homage to. QT is like Miike, in that he can take what on the surface might seem like a very shallow concept (hot assassin babe gets revenge on her former assassin pals) and make something substantive out of it by channeling his own unique style and storytelling tricks into it..

Actually now that I think about it, there were explicitly no ninjas in this movie, everything was bushido..
 
 
mondo a-go-go
17:57 / 13.10.03
aaiiiee, yes! Cameron, that's exactly what I inferred. I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice that.

I enjoyed the film a lot, and it was actually a lot less bloody than I was expecting, probably because all the super gory scenes were filmed in b&w or in silhouette or shown in anime. Actually the opening scene of The Bride's face all beaten and bloody under the cold, grey light was far more disturbing to me than any of the bloody violence that came later, because it was more visceral and real and human than the cartoon violence of the big fight scenes. In any case, compared to what I've seen of a lot of Japanese films, especially yakuza, the amount of blood seemed toned down (and I read somewhere that in the Japanese release all those b&w scenes are going to be full colour, and that there'll be an option to see it that way on the DVD release). To be honest, my anticipation of violence was a lot worse than the violence they actually showed, and some of it was so ridiculous and cartoony as to make me laugh out loud.

I loved the use of music, from the opening chords of Nancy Sinatra's Bang Bang (damn, I want my Nancy vinyl right now), to the Spanish guitar and Latin funk of the snowy fight in the garden (where that damn water fountain kept reminding me how much I needed to pee -- but that in turn made me wonder whether The Bride and O-Ren needed to pee too, and how well do you handle a sword if your bladder is ready to burst?). The audacity of using a style of music that is so entrenched in an entirely different culture than the one you are depicting was brilliant -- though it did kind of make sense to use that flamenco style beat over the start of that fight because it had a similar rhythm, most other filmmakers would have chosen a more traditional piece of music with Japanese flutes and so on.

Some of the background details were just cute, like the Red Apples billboard at the airport, and the Kaboom cereal box.

And splitting it up like that made perfect sense. The length of the film was ideal, anything longer would have been self-indulgent. Seems more to me that the climate was ideal for QT to release the story as two films than just trying to cash in on the "craze for sequels".
 
 
diz
18:54 / 13.10.03
I don't see much similarity between Lola Rennt and Kill Bill aside from the purely superficial. Lola includes a human element more or less absent from the Tarantino film,

ummm, sure. if you say so.

I can appreciate that the film is "purely about image" but in that case the notion of volumes is ridiculously self-indulgent.

it's supposed to be self-indulgent. what movie did you see that suggested subtle Puritan restraint? this movie is a complete orgy of pop culture/"chop-socky" homage, and you can't go halfway on that sort of thing. besides, serialization and sequelization is part of the genre(s) he's working with.

This sounds to me like a defense of the last resort,

how so? the movie has overall been very well received, and it's doing well at the box office. it doesn't need to be defended - it's speaking pretty well for itself. it's merely an attempt to help someone (namely, you) who didn't seem to get it learn to appreciate it.

because I daresay that fans will object to placing the film closer to the work of McG than Tykwer in the continuum, and are likely to get into discussions of the depth of the story

i doubt it. no one is claiming that there's any depth to the story, least of all QT or anyone else involved with it. in fact, the lack of depth is (correctly) being touted by everyone i've seen as one of the strengths of the movie.

(already painfully embarrasing with the "purely about image" trainwrecks that are the Matrix films).

weren't you the one defending the SW prequels? and you call the Matrix movies trainwrecks? i will admit that AotC, while flawed, was superior to TPM, but TPM was a reeking pile of shit, so that's not hard. The Matrix (the first one) is much more solid and intelligent than any of the SW prequels, and Reloaded is underrated.

Perhaps Tarantino ought to direct music videos instead?

perhaps you should move past antiquated notions of a hard distinction between techniques appropriate for serious, feature-length movies and those appropriate for music videos, instead. Kill Bill is intentionally blurring those lines (as did Lola Rennt, to return to my earlier point). music videos have gotten more and more "cinematic" over time, and i would expect to see more movies like Kill Bill in the future. QT's ahead of the curve on that - you seem to be behind it... =P
 
 
EE
20:21 / 13.10.03
The script review in one of the earlier posts shows a chapter missing from the movie. "Yuki's Revenge", which is just after "Showdown at the House of Blue Leaves", apparently has Go-go Yubari's (played by Chiaki Kuriyama, the sweetest, nicest, cutest Japanese teen idol ever to repeatedly stab a fella in the crotch on screen not once but twice) younger sister Yuki deciding to take revenge on the Bride after

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her sister is killed by the Bride. The scene supposedly takes place in L.A. with Go-go's even cuter younger sister going after the Bride with bright pink nail polish, bubblegum and an automatic rifle. If anyone knows where I can get a hold of a copy of the script with this scene in it, I'd appreciate you telling me. I would kill to get this scene in the next volume, but I doubt that'll happen. Maybe if we're lucky it'll be an anime extra on the Kill Bill DVD.

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So how was the movie? Glad you asked! It rocked like a smart monkey playing the accordian: fun as hell to just sit and watch and the music was great too. Although there was some shit-flinging (a smart monkey is still a monkey, after all).

Quick note: I very much doubt anyone will be discussing the depth of the story. It goes as deep as revenge...and that's it. If you understand revenge, you'll have no need to discuss the depth of the story. And c'mon, who doesn't understand revenge?
 
 
CameronStewart
21:25 / 13.10.03
>>> If anyone knows where I can get a hold of a copy of the script with this scene in it, I'd appreciate you telling me.<<<

All you have to do is type the words "Kill Bill script" into Google and a half dozen or more sites that have the original script come up.

I looked at this one: http://nogmeermeuk.tripod.com/billkillscript/
 
 
mondo a-go-go
22:38 / 13.10.03
There's some fun trivia on IMdB.
 
 
some guy
00:21 / 14.10.03
this movie is a complete orgy of pop culture/"chop-socky" homage, and you can't go halfway on that sort of thing.

Actually, I think the film didn't go far enough...

the movie has overall been very well received, and it's doing well at the box office. it doesn't need to be defended

Box office is a pathetic argument indeed. It has done well but not amazingly so, and I'm sure everyone here can run off a list of films that have made far more money in their opening weekends that are generally agreed to be crap.

it's merely an attempt to help someone (namely, you) who didn't seem to get it learn to appreciate it.

Oh please. In my first post I described how beautiful the visuals are. Of course it works on that level. Sadly, it only works on that level, and Pseud's Corner attempts to deflect criticism on the "you didn't get it" tack are just pathetic. Or is McG part of this brave new world of filmmaking?

no one is claiming that there's any depth to the story

Not on Barbelith perhaps (although we've already seen people begin to speculate on backstory - but in your paradigm that should be irrelevent, right?).

weren't you the one defending the SW prequels?

Not as "good films" no.

Reloaded is underrated.

Ah. Now I see where you're coming from.

music videos have gotten more and more "cinematic" over time, and i would expect to see more movies like Kill Bill in the future. QT's ahead of the curve on that

Nope. Kill Bill is his first attempt at this sort of thing, barring perhaps a few choice shots in Jackie Brown. Several years past Tykwer, then. Not to mention the McG crap, or Proyas, or Boyle, or any number of others. Or even the Star Wars prequels. In fact, it's with those films that we see the naked emperor here, because Lucas' own description of what he's trying to do with the prequels fits your description of Kill Bill...
 
 
mondo a-go-go
18:53 / 16.10.03
More fun trivia in this interview with Tarantino. (spoilers)
 
 
--
23:51 / 16.10.03
I saw it today with a bad headache and I thought it was brilliant. Really very well-done. USA TODAY always has these articles about how family-orientated films are making a comeback these days and "R-rated" films are a risky venture. This film is like a big fuck-you to all that. God wonders what Micheal Medved thought about it.

Great soundtrack, good acting, very stylish, very funny. I almost felt like cheering when I saw the good old "Red Apple" cigarrettes ad. And I think its hilarious that Micheal Madsen was one of the Divas. He looked a little out of place.

Uma Thurman was really good too. She just seemed totally right for the part. She really looked great.

Can't wait for part two.
 
 
Locust No longer
03:50 / 17.10.03
I liked the film, even if I do think Taratino's a hack. I suppose what he's really good at is taking the good things from all the movies he likes and putting them together into one. That takes skill, despite the fact that he really doesn't seem to have any original ideas of his own. I don't think I would've paid to see the movie, but I got in free so it was definitely worth it.
 
 
Nietzsch E. Coyote
04:33 / 17.10.03
how was the ending? Did it just leave you hanging like Matrix 2 or did it feel like a complete package?

It left you hanging but at the IDEAL moment to leave you hanging. Like Empire strikes back left you hanging.
 
 
Seth
08:44 / 18.10.03
What. A. Fucking. Movie.

Favourite scene - The Bride in hospital, staring at her hands to discover how long she's been unconscious.

Great fun from start to finish. Brutal, beautifully stylised, hilarious, great action, some of the finest animation I've seen (eat that, Animatrix). Uma's performance is mesmerising (she looks great, too. Never been a fan of her up to now). The final line is jaw dropping. The score is one of the best I've heard - period - and used in all the right ways. Have to see it again soon.

Wiggle your big toe.
 
 
Spaniel
09:14 / 18.10.03
Style over substance? Uh-huh, but what fucking style.

Okay, so it isn't particularly emotionally engaging - there are other ways of connecting with an audience. Aesthetically it's mesmerising, every shot brims with creativity and energy, and, christ, I didn't know my body could produce so much adrenaline.

The showdown at the house of the blue leaves = best duffing up in the yooooniverse.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:11 / 18.10.03
I didn't like any of the official wallpapers on the Kill Bill website, so I decided to make my own.
 
 
Spaniel
14:35 / 18.10.03
Thank you very much, from one Mr Stewart to another.
 
  

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