Haus for the time being I am going to postpone answering the big post of yours which copypastes flyboy's first post.
You have suggested making another thread, it's up to you.
Firstly, the context.
From my (obviously limited) experience of women, women tend to like mostly shitty music. was preceded by a large paragraph giving props to female MCs I like, (including What What aka Jean Grae who BTW is one of the most original MCs I have heard in the last 10 years.) It was followed a day later by this clarification: From my (obviously limited) experience of women, women tend to like mostly shitty music. And by obviously limited I mean as obviously limited as about anyone here, we know max a few hundred women each? and there are a few billion (or so I have heard). (That is, I was aware I cannot generalize and say [all] "women like shitty music") I have known women who do not fall into the shitty music category. I am confident that there are social circles where most if not all of the girls have a profoud feeling for good music. In London I have been to dub parties where there were lots of women dancing and enjoying what I also consider to be very good music. (so I acknowledged clearly that I both know and have observed women who do not have shitty taste in music, and therefore it's pretty clear that I don't believe [all] "women have shitty taste in music".)My point was: that women are not encouraged to appreciate certain aspects of music. Subsequently, fewer of them like [what I consider] good music, and this is very evident in certain genres, especially 'black' genres, where their role is 99% of the time only the singer, and not a musician or behind the mixing boards. This applies especially to more militant or battle-oriented forms of music. Now you can agree or disagree but I do not think this falls into the category of misogyny.
I will agree that it was phrased quite badly.
Let's leave it at that, because anyway right now I am unsatisfied with both positions, thanks in part to your criticism of the implications of 'hardcore fan' (which I acknowledge) and second to something else I have been thinking about.
It is problematic for me to draw a divide between 'those who love and appreciate music' and 'those who consume it without respect or sensitivity' (i.e. what I previously called 'shitty taste').
The reality is much more dynamic.
Thinking introspectively, at times I have also consumed music without respect or sensitivity.
An example: I like to dance. Sometimes when I danced, I was kind of pushing myself into dancing without 'really wanting to', without 'really feeling it', but for various reasons I did. Other times I danced and it was very special, even life-changing. I could say that the latter was a celebration of life and of unity with other dancers. But the former wasn't, it was alienated, and in fact a few times even made me feel physically ill afterwards.
I can apply this same rough model to simply listening to music. Music has uplifted me, given me energy, given me epiphanies, relaxed me, made the hairs on my back and arms all stand up, it has made me cry or laugh, brought a big smile to my face. Sometimes though it has been like a numbing opiate, joyless and escapist, tapping my foot mechanically.
This same applies to the actual creation of music, some musicians express vitality, honest expressions of the human condition, others are formulaic, unimaginative, inhuman and mechanical. And I also know this from practical experience when playing an instrument, because I have felt both states.
And I have played with other musicians and 'felt' them, sometimes the room is full of energy, you can physically feel it. Sometimes they are unimaginative posers and hence boring musicians and the atmosphere is dull.
So "The implication, I think, being that you can only be sensitive and respectful to good music, so that if you are properly sensitive and respectful, you only like good music" is pretty accurate. Personally I can only dance or listen in that 'special way' if the music is also that 'special'.
As to what constitutes that 'special' 'good music' I can only hint, not point, it seems beyond words for me right now. I think it has a lot to do with energy, but thats not a very useful word at the end of the day. It is up to a point subjective, but not totally.
And I think it is tied intrinsically to social conditions, including the effects of ideology on the artist, listener and music industry.
"I think this "respectful/sensitive" and "unconsidered/consumerist" dichotomy is basically silly"
I think the dichotomy exists and I can base this on my own experience. More accurately, it is a continuum, and the dichotomy just makes it easier to discuss about.
You are also correct that it is possible that I simply 'just don't get' HOW to respect or be sensitive to a certain song or genre (your example with Randy Newman). Constant self-critique is important, listening to new sounds, changing. But some songs are objectively terrible I will stand by that, and I apologize if anyone is offended because they enjoy artists who I consider objectively terrible...
Flyboy: What has led you to the conclusion that the latter is more common?
God told me.
-bruno |
