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Constantine. Say it isn't so.

 
  

Page: 12(3)45678

 
 
the rake at the gates
14:26 / 13.10.03
what exactly is dated about hellblazer?, i mean he's not exactly screaming 80's,

are you refering to the issue where they have jack london or someone's funeral and ellis implies that constanine was a zeightgeist of the 80's and now is out dated and the new spirt of the age is spider jerusalem, all a bit self congratulating for me, i'ld take constantine over jerusalem anyday

plus the movie will be shit, or good but in no way like the comic, so shit for a adaptation, which is stupid as all they need is a copy of 'dangerous habits' a couple of charasmatic actors and you've got a relatively cheap cult hit on your hands
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:50 / 13.10.03
I actually always thought of Constantine as being more 70s, but living in the 80/90/"whatever we call these"s... the punk kid who never really grew out of it, just became more knowledgeable.

Take your point, though, Nick. However... the potential is there to do a really fucking great Hellblazer movie. Or it WAS. Now it isn't, for a long time. And THAT's what pisses me off.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
16:30 / 13.10.03
Well, y'see, I'm not entirely sure there was the potential for a great Hellblazer movie, in the sense of one which caught the original character perfectly. He's a great character, but the time when John Constantine really shone was when he was a bitpart in someone else's show. He works very well as a kind of inverted version of the Mentor, the Obiwan role - always hinting, never completely helping, always on the make. Then he got his own title and fought the Damnation Army and took on Football Holligan Monsters and so on - very 80s-specific. More and more, however, he suffered from what I tend to think of as Hannibal Lecter Syndrome.

Lecter is the unquestionable centre of Thomas Harris' FBI series. His essential characteristic is that he knows. He is also fundamentally complete. There's no way he can learn or evolve, because he has achieved a kind of perfect awfulness. He's the Obiwan of serial killers; he trains and advises Starling and Graham, and other less friendly characters. Which is what makes him a lousy central character. 'Hannibal' depends in part on the idea that Lecter is in danger. You don't believe it, and you're right not to. [Spoiler for 'Hannibal'] Even when Lecter is chained up with man-eating pigs, he is still sufficiently in control of the situation to begin the process of manipulating someone to save him. By the time Starling arrives, Lecter has effectively saved himself. [End spoiler]

Constantine is much the same. He simply could not die - and more to the point, as long as he was prepared to do more and more ghastly things, he couldn't lose either. All right, his victories were often Pyrrhic in the extreme. But he won. And the thing is, although at first we felt his pain at what he had to do, we increasingly just waited for his spectacular betrayal-as-love which would clinch the game. It's articulated at one point - someone says something along the lines of "You're just waiting for something horrible to happen so that you can do something unthinkable and win".

A character like that is a secondary. You give them an apprentice, and they steal the film. That's great, as long as you give the apprentice some cool stuff to do too, like destroying the Death Star, beating Agent Smith one handed, or catching Buffalo Bill. But try to put the Master in the role of hero, and you're in trouble - you get the second Matrix movie, where the fights are boring because you don't believe Neo can lose in any meaningful way.

I'm actually quite relieved that the Constantine ethos from the comic won't be driving the film. I don't think I want a huge box office movie which pushes the idea that the best - the only - way to win against things which scare you and have terrible consequences is to become more terrible than they are. I'm not sure that's an idea I want floating around right now.

Constantine wins by going nuclear every single time. Let's not, eh?

I think there's a chance that this will be an enjoyable film. It might even be interesting. And in no way does it prevent anyone else from making film-noir with magic - which is what Hellblazer is at heart.
 
 
the rake at the gates
18:28 / 13.10.03
i always found constantine in a mentor role a bit one dimentional, he was there just to move the plot along, in hellblazer you always know he's not going to die but he gets beaten, i'm more interested in the lengths he'll go to to protect himself, the depths he's willing to sink to, not being the all knowing master makes him more human, he shown as a deply flawed human being who pretty much fucks up everyone he comes into contact with. You might not worry if he will survive, but instead how many inersent bystanders will have to pay the price for his victory
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
04:00 / 15.10.03
satanic magic horror? 70's

[only seen well done lately in Dennison Ramalho's AMOR SÓ DE MÃE (LOVE ONLY FROM MOM, or something like that) short movie, which was fucking scary.]

Lovecraftian magic horror? anytime, when well done [in those rare flicks].

Constantine as a character too 80s? not quite, it's like saying Brit is so 80s. well, some producers are betting on KEEN EDDIE at FOX anyway, which is just an american Constantine-like cop in London. but he's not Constantine, so he's always being fucked by people - not the opposite.
 
 
Warewullf
17:54 / 21.10.03
Inital reaction:
Gasp! They let him smoke!

Reality Check:
"Constantine, an American magus recently diagnosed as having lung cancer..."

(From here.)


Graaaalalaalhhhckkkkkkkkkkfuksake.....
 
 
■
18:33 / 21.10.03
[treading water to keep this monstrosity afloat]
Look, Warner must already have some sort of contract with the ideal Constantine. He can (now) do a reasonable brit accent, wouldn't take too long to develop a decent scouse.
Women everywhere want to screw him already. He smokes well, he has the hair(-ish). He can do bastard well.
James Marsters.
That is all.
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
18:36 / 21.10.03
So it's lung cancer again?

At some point they were planning to make it brain cancer instead, which was a shitty idea...

... what was so cool about Ennis' original story was that Constantine got cancer from smoking: something he knew was harmful to his health and he still kept on doing it, and so his disease was an almost righteous 'punishment' - his desperate struggle to find a cure and seeing his options narrowing quickly also struck a cord with me, because i believe a cancer victim would have the same reaction.

I just hope they don't forget what made 'Dangerous Habits' such a universal story.
 
 
Baz Auckland
15:24 / 25.10.03
...I was just looking at the cast list on IMDB, and the actor who's playing Chaz is 17? Odd...

Tilda Swinton as Gabriel seems to work though...
 
 
The Photographer in Blowup
17:27 / 25.10.03
I believe Chas is meant to be some sort of magick rookie whom Constantine is teaching...
 
 
J. White
22:26 / 25.10.03
If they take the "Dangerous Habits" road I hope they don't fuck it up enough where the ending is totally off the wall.

Then again I don't think the First is the part of the Devil in this. Apparently it's Gavin Rossdale of Bush's character of Balthazar who will be Constantine's main nemisis.
 
 
The Falcon
00:02 / 26.10.03
I really think Keanu should play Jesus soon.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:32 / 26.10.03
Checking those links, I'm left with the over-riding question:

TILDA? Ms GERRARD? What the fuck do you two think you're playing at?

Although I'm not dreading it quite as much now I've seen Matrix: Reloaded. EVERY film seems better now. Except Queen of the Damned, obviously.
 
 
Porn Star Justice
20:18 / 26.10.03
It's not that I am huge fan of this guy (his work or his public persona), but when I thought about "Who is the best big name actor to play John Constantine", the name that sprang to mind was Colin Farrell.

Of course he'd need some highlights and his is a bit young, but...
 
 
bio k9
22:37 / 26.10.03
Keanu isn't so bad if they fix the hair.

I'm really looking forward to this, it looks great!
 
 
Poke it with a stick
09:57 / 28.10.03
If they really must get an American (or Canadian) to play Constantine, then why not Kiefer Sutherland? He looks the part (now he's grown out of the babyface he used to have), he can do charming (sort of) whilst still being an evil bastard when he needs to be. Witness the second series of 24 when he flirted with a terrorist's sister whilst killing and torturing a load of bad guys.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
11:34 / 28.10.03
Okay, enough bitching, time to get proactive.
Who WOULD fill the Constantine roles, if not Neo, PVC vampire chick, pretty boy Cobain wannabe et al.?
I'm all for Sutherland, like DisDave said, the guy can pull off evil and charming (Whereas Ted Theodore Logan can barely pull off 'sentient') Colin Farell maybe.
The full cast list goes something like:
Keanu Reeves (John Constantine)
Shia LaBeouf (Chaz)
Rachel Weisz (Angela Dodson)
Gavin Rossdale (Balthazar)
Djimon Hounsou (Popa Midnite)
Max Baker (Beeman)
Shia LaBeouf (Chaz)
Tilda Swinton (Gabriel)
Michelle Monaghan (Ellie)
Pruitt Taylor Vince (Father Hennessy)
Jesse Ramirez (Scavenger)
Larry Cedar (Vermin)

(Funny that somebody bought up James Marsters, his band, Ghost of the Robot, are almost as bad as Dogstar.)
 
 
J. White
14:19 / 28.10.03
It's way to late to be thinking about would COULD play him. Keanu's in and I don't think there's much of a chance of him backing out on this one.
 
 
Hieronymus
17:07 / 28.10.03
Bah. He's too caught up in his 24 fanfare. And they'd have to have him American. The thought of Kiefer feigning an accent of any sort makes my skin crawl.

I nearly threw my remote at the television after watching Dark City.
 
 
Char Aina
17:52 / 28.10.03
ewan mcgregor.

robert carlyle.

tim roth.

in that order.
 
 
Quantum
08:07 / 29.10.03
Tim Roth gets my vote. I still can't believe this is happening, canoe as constantine, eurgh.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:44 / 29.10.03
It won't happen. Not if I kill him. Yes.

Nick: I agree with you regarding your take on a take on Constantine - however, there have been as many takes on the man i comics as there have been writers who used him. Gaiman's Constantine with the attitude of Delano's Constantine seems closest to who you're talking about... And since the two never collaborated, I'm left with the impression from your post that you don't really know a lot about the character or the comics - however, don't know whether this is actually the case (didn't even know you read comics, to be honest).

Would you care to elaborate? I found your post interesting, just didn't quite get the provenance, if you see what I mean...
 
 
Hieronymus
01:55 / 12.11.03
Well it's clear 'Dangerous Habits' is an official template for the movie. How close they stick to it is anyone's guess. This from Superherohype.com:

Sci Fi Wire also chatted with producer Lauren Shuler Donner who said more about Constantine...

"It's not an origin story of the character," played by Keanu Reeves, Donner said in an interview while promoting her next movie, Timeline. "It's 'Dangerous Habits,' if you know the Hellblazer [series]."

"Dangerous Habits," the 1994 graphic novel by Irish writer Garth Ennis, focuses on John Constantine, a magician faced with death from lung cancer, who finds himself straddling the line between life and death, heaven and hell. "We're filming," Donner said. "We're about a third into it. It's come along great. And it'll be out next year, probably, well, at the moment, September."


Part of me feels a bit more at ease that they won't completely cock this up since Donner was one of the people who were involved in the production of X2, one of the better comic to film translations, in my opinion. It's her financial loss if this tanks.
 
 
Char Aina
05:53 / 12.11.03
why, if this film is about everyone's favourite magician, dont we use magick to get a new lead? i know, its a bit late, and i know, they are already a third through filming, but couldnt we get keanu dropped?
maybe visit the producer in a dream and explain that he is meddling with dark forces beyond his ken?
perhaps if one of us, all made up to look like constantine, were to stand over his bed (a la back to the future) that would be enough.
it seems a poor show to just let it happen, y'know?
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
05:56 / 12.11.03
REALLY OBVIOUS WHY-AM-I-BOTHERING SPOILER ALERT (funnily enough, for the new Matrix movie, though with some relevance)
























Duncan said I really think Keanu should play Jesus soon

Seen Revolutions yet? Piano's already played THAT particular JC...
 
 
Char Aina
06:17 / 12.11.03
um.
next time, can you say MATRIX spoilers?
i havent seen it yet, and although i was fairly convinced it was going to be shite, you just confirmed it.

and i'm going to see it today.
 
 
Char Aina
06:19 / 12.11.03
what i was wondering was, will he have a group of young mages in training called the blazin' squad?
 
 
Baz Auckland
02:51 / 19.11.03
Hmmm... Dangerous Habits might not be that bad. The movie database is showing someone's been cast as Papa Midnite though, so I guess they'll throw some of the other characters in somewhere... and I can see them leaving Brendan out, which is too bad.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
07:20 / 19.11.03
Oops... sorry, toksik- I'll request to have that modded.
 
 
Axel Lambert
09:29 / 19.11.03
After seeing "24", series one & two, in just one week, and heard the idea somewhere over here, I can't think of anyone else playing Constantine than this guy:

 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
10:34 / 19.11.03
Nick: I agree with you regarding your take on a take on Constantine - however, there have been as many takes on the man i comics as there have been writers who used him.

Well, yeah, ish. The frame remains the same, as do many of the problems.

Gaiman's Constantine with the attitude of Delano's Constantine seems closest to who you're talking about...

Well, I was thinking of the broad spread.

And since the two never collaborated, I'm left with the impression from your post that you don't really know a lot about the character or the comics - however, don't know whether this is actually the case (didn't even know you read comics, to be honest).

Funny how appearances can deceive, isn't it? I read Constantine from the Swamp Thing through until God knows when, though to be fair I actually started with the early issues of Hellblazer and went back to ST. I think I lost my rag with it some time after Dangerous Habits, although I still pick it up occasionally. I seem to recall it was the Dirty Old Man In the Future run which did it. I think the title needs major work to lift it back to the spooky relevance it had at first.

More generally, I read comics a lot, but rather specifically. Bendis, yes, Moore, yes, Ellis, sometimes, and so on.

But this thread is about the movie, and the movie will be... er... what the movie is. But a noirish, savagely political, bleak and bitter take on life through the lens of a judeo-christian magick world was never really all that likely for a mainstream studio. FilmFour should have done it instead of funding Death to Smoochy with all that remained of the piggybank. Then maybe they'd still be around.
 
 
Hieronymus
12:15 / 05.01.04
And now there's arguing about the sex of angels
 
 
The Falcon
22:27 / 06.01.04
Och, I think this might be alright. Not bothered about Swinton at all.

"The holy grail of adult comic series'"?

Shurely Swamp Thing or Watchemon?
 
 
FinderWolf
17:15 / 03.03.04
Alan Moore has officially distanced himself from the movie (if this aint it cool news report is true):

---


Wednesday, March 3, 2004

Alan Moore distances himself from Keanu's CONSTANTINE! Uh Oh...
Hey folks, Harry here... Many fans were wary of CONSTANTINE the second they called it CONSTANTINE instead of HELLBLAZER. Then when they decided to cast the blonde brit character as Keanu Reeves and make the distinctly British series American... well, that pissed off many, but Alan Moore was supportive... until now, this sounds like it might get really ugly. Here ya go...

----
Hey Harry, Bristlehound here with my third latest and greatest report. This one is such a stunner I can't believe it, but you should because everyone is trying to cover it up.

After reviewing the script and casting of HELLBLAZER, Comic Kingpin Alan Moore has done the unthinkable. He's washed his hand of the entire debacle. That's right- he's instructed DC to NOT credit him as the creator of the character. And putting his money where his mouth is, he has instructed that the royalties that he was splitting with his co-creators goes EXCLUSIVELY to the artists, Veitch and Bissette.

Often we hear about an artist upset that his creation has been butchered but this is the first I can recall where the creator asked that both name and money be rejected. Moore is apparently so upset at the desecration done to Constantine by Producer Lauren Shuler Donner that he is stating that he will never support a film project based on his work again. DC Toady Paul Levitz is running around trying to get Moore to change his position, but Levitz is the one who had 30,000 copies of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen #5 pulped. The bad PR this move could create in the geek community is of grave concern to Warners and DC.

I say if they couldn't get Sting they should have got Ewan. With Neo, I ain't even renting. And if Alan Moore has washed his hands, we all should.

-----
 
 
Sax
09:54 / 05.03.04
Neil Gaiman has weighed in with his take on it.
 
  

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