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DOCTOR WHO! SEASON...um.....thirtyone (No Spoilers)

 
  

Page: 12(3)45678... 9

 
 
■
14:50 / 19.04.10
Why would xenophobic, self-centered, impossibly arrogant creatures give a damn about human sense of practicity and aesthetics in their design

Two words: Hugo Boss.
 
 
imaginary mice
15:50 / 19.04.10
Also, did anybody got the names of the new Power ranger Daleks? I only got "Supreme" (the white one)

Posh, Sporty, Baby, Ginger and Scary
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:21 / 19.04.10
I like that this Doctor is a bit angrier than the one before*. And not so infallible in his plans.

You say that, but I get the feeling that Gatiss didn't know what to expect from Smith, in terms of characterisation, and wrote it as if it was a Tennant-helmed episode. Imagine Tennant in the same situations, saying the same lines, and it probably works a bit better than it did. Also, Amy's solution was a very Donna solution, right down to the particular use of language.
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:44 / 19.04.10
Agreed on the Amy-Donna comparison, but while Tennant would be all hight and mighty and judgmental about his righteous anger, Smitt simply plays it plain angry. I like it better this way, actually.
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:50 / 19.04.10
Still not over the bowtie, minded.
 
 
Mistoffelees
06:36 / 20.04.10
Anyone else wondering about a possible connection between Amy and River Song (Silence in the Library)?

Russell T Davies describes her as "one of the most important characters we've seen in the series." And there is speculation she might be Amy's mum, future self, clone, etc.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
10:51 / 20.04.10
I missed that possibility. Where was it mentioned?
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:13 / 21.04.10
Supreme

Strategist

Scientist

Drone

Eternal

No idea what an Eternal Dalek's duties would compose.

Personnally I felt the episode was pretty average. I get that they want to keep the Daleks as a presence in the show, and I quite like the chunky technicolour new look for them but, even with the year off I still feel they're over-used.
 
 
Mistoffelees
09:50 / 22.04.10
I missed that possibility. Where was it mentioned?

I got this from discussion on Rotten Tomatoes and io9.

The quote is from the River Song wiki.
 
 
Dead Megatron
23:41 / 22.04.10
No idea what an Eternal Dalek's duties would compose.

I'm guessing restoring the race in case the Doctor brings them to extinction again?

But, yeah, I wouldn't mind a couple of dalek-free seasons.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
09:08 / 23.04.10
Ah, yes, thanks. Where are you reading speculation that she may be connected to Amy?
 
 
■
22:53 / 23.04.10
You know what I want? Remember when everyone was dissecting New X-Men and poring over every detail and making the only sense possible out of what everyone else was saying was confused nonsense? When the world went "Bwuh?" over a sudden shift forward to several hundred years in the future. Yet somehow a coherent story came out of it right here and nowhere else?

That's what I want, no, NEED from you lot over the next two weeks. I was always a few weeks behind then, now I'm a bit ahead and keeping my mouth shut. However, I want to see the new equivalent of Triplets, Haus, Ganesh and, even frigging Flyboy rip apart these next two episodes and try to make sense of them in a bigger context. The first one may be not so hard, the next...

As Fly once so eloquently asked, I shall now shut the fuck up. Again.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:12 / 24.04.10
Well, that's the first time I've ever used the BBC's online complaints form.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:34 / 24.04.10
What for?
 
 
■
17:57 / 24.04.10
A weeping angel got loose and came through the telly.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:07 / 24.04.10
"Coming next: Over the Rainbow"

Right over the top of the fucking cliffhanger climax, obscuring the screen, pulling the audience out of the fiction and, in five words and one completely unsuitable graphic, destroying any tension and excitement that the episode had built up to.

I'm not an imbecile. I'm perfectly capable of pressing the guide button on my remote if I want to know what's coming next. Or, perish the thought, waiting for the show to end before finding out for myself. I don't need to have it screamed in my face for the last twenty seconds of the programme that I actually tuned in to watch and that I was previously enjoying.

Here was me thinking that the BBC had become retarded enough with the constant use of idents in the top corner of the screen on their digital channels. But no, they've got to brand - and, in the process, ruin - everything as much as they possibly can.

Pricks, basically. Patronising pricks. I really hope the people who worked on the show kick up a proper stink about it, because otherwise this'll happen every fucking week. "New look Saturday!" remember.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
18:17 / 24.04.10
@ Spatula - I have the impression it only happened in perhaps the London or England region, as BBC Wales and BBC Scotland didn't get the interruption at all.

There's always the repeat on BBC 3 tomorrow...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:45 / 24.04.10
Right, well I'll be watching it on iPlayer in future, then. Although I'm wary of that, too, because it often appears to be the shows ripped from the live broadcast, complete with voice-over announcements during the credits sequences, so this shit may well still be present on the version available through that service.

It's pissed me off enough that I can't remember anything else that happened in the episode. That's twice Graham Norton and his talent show awfulness have managed to inadvertently fuck around with the Who experience. Maybe it's a rite of passage for new incarnations of the Doctor, or something.
 
 
■
22:23 / 24.04.10
I didn't see the DOG, as above, I don't think they showed it in Scotland, but that's just awful. I was upset as they went and spoiled a bloody cliffhanger with the next episode trail. A great cliffhanger, too.
Just stop it, you numpties. It was a great speech (itself spoiled months ago) followed by one of those moments where you think "how on earth can they get out of this?" followed by the classic "scream" leading into what should have been a week of feverish playground speculation on what happens next, so that when the solution is revealed everyone's brains go "eep!".
Please, BBC, don't show us a "coming up", it helps only unimaginative morons.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:35 / 25.04.10
@Spatula- ah, right. I watched it on tvcatchup, and for some reason assumed the fucking thing wouldn't have been on the TV broadcasts (no idea why I thought that, to be honest; it makes no sense).
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:28 / 25.04.10
Okay, the episode itself. Again, I felt that Amy was left somewhat adrift in the script, probably because of the return of River Song. We've rushed headlong into the Amy/Doctor relationship and it feels as though not enough groundwork has been done, especially in comparison to the previous companion relationships.

On the whole, I think this episode could have done quite nicely without River's presence. I'm not too sure what she brought to it that other characters couldn't have and her interaction with the Doctor felt off. I was a bit worried before the thing had started, anyway, that the combination of Weeping Angels + River Song = Stephen Moffat's Greatest Hits. It wasn't, thankfully - beyond a couple of crowd-pleasing moments of dialogue repetition from their previous outngs - and the Angels were used brilliantly, but things betweeen River and the Doctor lacked the chemistry that they had last time around.

Kind of stuck as to what else to say. The environments were fantastic - this series' CGI backgrounds have been far superior to any of the previous ones, both in terms of artistry and believable solidity. Smith was more or less back on form after last week's blip.

The cliffhanger was spoiled a bit by going on for roughly three seconds too long, making it fairly obvious what the Doctor's solution is going to be.

Moffat's in danger of tying himself in logical knots, playing with timelines as he is. Apart from introducing an element of Data Syndrome to the series - that is, we've already seen River as old as she's ever going to get, but the actor is never again going to look as young as she did during that first appearance - there's the question of why River didn't know what adventures the Doctor had already experienced with her in Silence in the Library. Given that that was the only time she ever met his tenth incarnation, either the portraits in her book aren't all that good or the two of them are never really going to be all that close to each other.

Also a little confused as to why nobody's tried attacking the Weeping Angels by, y'know, hitting them with a chisel or pushing them off one of the many big drops in the maze. You can't kill stone? No, but smashing it into tiny little pieces is hardly a task.

Being picky, I know. I liked the episode a lot, but the BBC stinkyness has made me focus on the negatives.

One thing that *was* a big problem for it was the way that we've now got the Weeping Angels talking. Entirely unnecessary, removes a huge chunk of the fear they generate - if you can communicate with something, it suddenly becomes a lot less frightening than if its purpose is entirely alien and unknown - and was basically a surprisingly lazy clone of the 'data ghosts' idea from, yep, Silence in the Library.

It was all fairly great as a tea-time version of Aliens, though.

(On which note, that's why the Daleks are now completely shit and boring - series one of New Who did the Alien thing, having humans in a base being terrorised by a single, unreasoning, terrifying slaughter machine, then did Aliens at the end of the series by bringing in an entire army of them. There's nowhere you can go after that - one is no longer a threat and an army is a repeat of what we've already seen. Hence stupid redesigns. Dalek/human hybrid from Daleks in Manhattan? Dog Alien from Alien 3.)
 
 
Feverfew
19:58 / 25.04.10
'Angered'.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
23:53 / 25.04.10
We've rushed headlong into the Amy/Doctor relationship and it feels as though not enough groundwork has been done, especially in comparison to the previous companion relationships.

Yeah, I remember thinking something along those lines early in the episode when Amy is remarking on how differently Song treats the doctor--"no one ever" does this or that, "no one ever" says this or that to him. How would she know, exactly? Unless there's a lot they're not showing us, she's only gone to two places with him, and one of those places she didn't do squat but run around and look worried until she had a couple lines of dialouge that saved the day.

I have a feeling the words "perception filter" are going to be used a lot this season to explain away minor plot holes.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
17:38 / 01.05.10
The "walk like you can see" bit was just dumb, but the rest of that was fantastic, though I can see some people here aren't gonna like that ending...

Moffatt's carrying on stealing stuff from all the right places- this time from my favourite ever episode of the Twilight Zone, with the astronauts who've survived the crashed pod and one by one vanish from existence. (Plus the gravity trick from Revelation Space- think there's been a lot of Reynolds-loving going on somewhere, what with that and the whole star whale thing).
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
23:45 / 01.05.10
Barbelith, you have failed me. I thought the Who thread would be the one place where people might still hang out.

I shall await the delivery of the lemon-soaked paper napkins among the skeletons of my fellow travellers with dignity.
 
 
iamus
02:01 / 02.05.10
Haud yr horses, I'm coming back to it. I just got fired the other week is all and I haven't had time to be posting since. Will be posting next day or so.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:23 / 02.05.10
Ah, cheers Stoatie. I knew I'd seen that "being erased from reality" idea somewhere before, but I couldn't place it. I've obviously not absorbed any of the Reynolds novels, though, because despite having read them all I've not been drawing those comparisons.

I hope that's the last time we see the Weeping Angels. Not only have we had them communicating with the Doctor, we've also now seen them moving. That's, like, both their frights removed. I got the feeling that that was the point, though, that Moffat had decided to get shot of them and so went the whole hog. Won't stop somebody else bringing them back in future, though.

I liked loads of things about that episode, although some of the editing was jarring. Things like the Doctor suddenly being out of the Angels' grasp and running off into the forest, without us seeing him wriggle out. Happened a couple of times and felt like a couple of seconds of the scene were missing each time.

I just realised something. I can't remember how the Doctor, Amy and River got out of the hole they were in at the end - the Angels got sucked into the crack, and then the next thing we see is our heroes standing on the beach, with a bunch of priest/soldiers? What happen?

So, the crack in time. I worry about this. It's a fantastically cool idea, something rewriting history and reality, but what it leads to and how it's handled is tricky ground. Moffat's dealing with the hangover from the RTD/Davies years, trying to fix the damage done by an increased reliance on continuity and highly visible worldwide threats, that much is clear. And that's all to the good.

But we also know that he follows fan discussion and speculation about the show online, and one of the things that has come up every now and again in various places is the idea of starting over, of going back to year zero, getting rid of all the continuity crap by having a clean slate. And that's what this seems to be hinting at. How do you deal with the problem of everybody knowing about the Doctor, the Daleks, the Cybermen, etc? Well, we used to ignore it. And then Davies felt that he needed to explain it by saying that people only remember what they want to. That only works so far, but once the idea's been introduced into the series you can't ignore it any longer. So what else can you do *apart* from erasing everything and starting from scratch?

I hope he's got something surprising up his sleeve. He's certainly not short of ideas - this episode threw a new one into the mix every five minutes, and they nearly all worked.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
12:26 / 02.05.10
The thing that interests me about this is the Doctor going back into his own timeline again to mess with stuff.

You know when he leaves Amy with the squaddies (including one of the guys from Dog Soldiers) and then comes back briefly to tell her to remember what he said to her when she was seven? Why was he wearing his jacket? He'd lost it to the angels and at no stage throughout the rest of the episode was he wearing it. Except there.

There's some wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff going on. Or Moffat made a continuity error. And I doubt that, somehow.

Lovely touches in this - the soldiers using muzzle-flash to buy the Doctor time; Amy counting down simply because the angels thought it would be "fun" and the "comfy chairs" line.

I also like the Doctor flying by the seat of his pants more - he's less omnipotent and more brilliant under pressure.

It looks great and Smith was assured yet again. Iain Glenn was solid too - I hadn't really cared about him much up until the end, but he sold me the noble sacrifice stuff brilliantly.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
13:34 / 02.05.10
Really loved these two episodes. (A whole cavern full of Weeping Angels? How effective and creepy is that?)

River Song just gets more and more interesting. Whom did she kill? Matt says it's the Doctor at some point in the future, but I am not sure if I buy that. What is the Pandorica?

Also, thanks to Moffat for addressing something that has been bugging the holy crap out of me for a looong time. "Okay, okay, how come NO ONE remembers a giant Cyberking menacing Victorian London? I dunno about you, but surely, that would have made the history books!"
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:48 / 02.05.10
There's some wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff going on. Or Moffat made a continuity error. And I doubt that, somehow.

Seems too small of a moment for it to be intentional. I didn't even notice it.

If you really want to retcon it, though, you could say that the angels that were holding the jacket got eaten by the crack inbetween those scenes, so never existed to have hold of it in the first place.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
20:57 / 02.05.10
Seems too small of a moment for it to be intentional.

That's what I thought when it was initially mentioned. Then I watched the clip and there seemed to be an element of foreshadowing.

If you have iPlayer, check out the episode from about 17 minutes in. There's something jarring about the Doctor's dialogue for it to be completely in context.
 
 
■
23:29 / 02.05.10
Holy crap, that's exactly the sort of thing I always miss, and was asking for above. The hair is calmer, there's the jacket and the unexpectedness of the hands coming back in. There's also suddenly more echo on Doc Matt's voice, and a forehead kiss that means those two or three lines suddenly mean a lot more to him. It's not a continuity cock-up, no way. This is what I love about this: there is an overarching big Bad-Wolfy style arc, but that's the really obvious stuff. There's so much more going on in the background you have to pick up on which is more interesting.
It was the way that the disappearing people were not so heavily emphasised as the main adversaries, the Angels, that got me. People suddenly never existing? Isn't that a hugely significant statement about all sorts of things (even if it has been done before here and there)? About how the suffering of people we've never met matters less to us, understandably, than the ones we have. Maybe.

What could be scarier than an almost omnipotent scary alien than simply suddenly having reality rewritten so that you weren't killed in battle but never were there at all?
It's about underlying , hidden threat being much, much worse than the obvious one.

And the filthy, filthy line about "getting you sorted out right now" after the "Oh yeah... no, still not getting it" was great, I thought. Then again, I have said that I quite liked Coupling, so I may be projecting.

Also, Tardis in your own bedroom. WANT.
 
 
■
23:33 / 02.05.10
Damn, just realised that my bit after the bedroom scene that says 'Next Time 40"' means you have a 40 second trailer jump on me... off to iPlayer!
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
02:55 / 03.05.10
The hair is calmer, there's the jacket and the unexpectedness of the hands coming back in.

Anyone notice the guy's got some effing gnarly hands? I was quite surprised.

I had noticed the big shift at this scene (didn't catch the jacket, kudos to you all), and hadn't really thought anything of it aside from the strange intimacy of the moment that seemed out of place, and the fact that his lines about what he told her when they first met were never referenced again in the episode. I figured it was bad editing, or maybe an attempt to portray the doctor as still viewing Amy as a seven-year-old girl who is a little frightened. That seemed to fit in with his confusion during the bedroom scene, in my mind. But I like your explanations better I think.

Anyway, lots of fun lines in this episode, the "comfy chairs" bit was nice. I think they obviously want us to think it is the Doctor that River Song has killed in the past/future.

The bedroom scene was handled better than I imagined it would, actually. I had been expecting it since the first episode but it didn't go down like I imagined. The doctor's confusion was charming (was it? I thought so, anyway, but I'm a sucker for that sort of thing) and it was fun seeing Amy being aggressive and the Doctor scrambling.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
10:52 / 03.05.10
Okay, I'm starting to buy into this idea now. If it turns out that is was just a continuity error, though, I'd like to say now that you'll all have ruined this series for me, because the possibility that it isn't has got me thinking all kind of awesome things and none of them will ever come to pass.

So. We keep on getting reminded about fairy tales. You've got the whole 'Raggedy Doctor' thing, you've got Peter Pan and Wendy, the notion of fairy tales has been mentioned explicitly in Confidential *and* within the scripts themselves (the end of this episode, "The Pandorica! That's just a fairy tale." "Aren't we all?") And, of course, Pandora's Box itself.

I can't shake the idea that the Pandorica is going to turn out to be a repository for stories, for myths and their inhabitants. And it's creeping dangerously close to metafiction, but Amy's created a fairy tale herself, in the form of the Raggedy Doctor. And then other stuff, which is serious fanwankery on my part and I'm not going to go into any further yet, through fear of embarrassing myself about as completely as is possble.

My idea based on precisely no evidence, of course.

(Btw, the little laugh Smith gives after he says "The Pandorica!"? That's the one I'm talking about. Best. Doctor. Ever.)
 
  

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