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DOCTOR WHO! SEASON...um.....thirtyone (No Spoilers)

 
  

Page: 123(4)56789

 
 
■
14:14 / 03.05.10
I think you're right. There's something of dream reality shot through the whole series so far. That gravity leap really doesn't make sense when you think about it, and the whole logic of the Angels doesn't quite work. But there's no time to think about it too hard until the morning. It's the power of nightmares, the crack in a bedroom wall that's scarier than anything. I'd bet Moff knows his Paperhouse and is drawing on it (must watch that again, been a long time).
Also, Little Red Riding Amy making her way through the treacherous wood is possibly in more danger from the man who might be hairy on the inside than the Angel-wolves. And that danger made her, for want of a better expression, hot for him. To the extent that she's willing to throw away the fairytale wedding to the upstanding but a bit useless prince to the pirate who just swung in through the window with a sonic cutlass between his teeth.
So, yes, dreams and nightmares and possibly even pocket universes (sorry, charged vacuum emboitments, I want a reference to CVEs, dammit!) and Sleeping Beauty
This is why I love this so much. I can't imagine trying to pick apart any RTD episodes by alluding to Angela Carter.
And I still bloody love Angel Bob even if he is an echo of Silence in the Library. The voice acting was brilliant.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:30 / 03.05.10
Oh god.

Somebody just reminded me of something else, from the first episode, that could potentially tie into this.

So if you don't want SPECULATION BASED ON STUFF SEEN SO FAR potentially spoiling a surprise later on down the line, look away now.

In the first episode, the Doctor appears to Amy when she's seven. Then he buggers off with a promise that he'll return in five minutes' time. Only, he doesn't. He returns twelve years later.

Then, after their little adventure, he gets filled with excitement about the new Tardis interior decoration and buggers off again, leaving Amy standing in the garden. Again. When he eventually returns to pick her up, another two years have passed.

Watch that scene again. It threw me the first time I saw it and I thought that something was going on in it. But then I figured, nope, just crappy editing again - the editing has seemed off to me in all the episodes so far, yeah? Second time I watched it, I decided that yep, it was definitely just an editing fuck-up.

Doctor disappears in Tardis and leaves nineteen year-old Amy in the Garden. Then we get a cut to her sitting on her suitcase in the same spot when she's seven, in the daytime - remember, when he left her, it was night. The Tardis engines sound and she looks up with a smile on her face. Then we cut an immediate edit to adult Amy in bed, waking when she hears the Tardis engines.

First time of watching? I thought, hang on, he *did* return to her when she was seven, she just forgot all about it. Then the jump straight to her as an adult made me think that I'd got it wrong and what they were trying to show was her having a dream about waiting for him as a child, and that dream mixing in with the reality of the Tadis engines as it appeared outside her (adult) bedroom. Second time of watching, I convinced myself that this was the case, and that they'd simply fucked up an attempt to show her having a dream.

But now, with this new scene, that's maybe not the case. At some point in the future - most likely during the last two episodes - the Doctor will end up jumping back into Amy's timeline and planting the seeds of *something* in her head, to help deal with whatever's coming. And the crack is either the consequence of that meddling, or the problem that he needs to solve by doing so.

And I'm still trying to stop myself from thinking that it's got something to do with an alternate reality that Amy's over-active imagination has created.

How do you know it's a duck pond if there aren't any ducks in it?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:40 / 03.05.10
And, of course, Moffat's demonstrated with River Song that he likes the idea of getting funky with timelines.

On which note, her line about "you, me, handcuffs. Must it always end this way?" was a bit odd, because, sure, the last time they parted handcuffs were involved, but that event hasn't happened for her yet. So expect to see that referenced in the final episodes, too.

Noticed some speculation elsewhere about River being the Doctor's mum. Possible. Certainly more interesting than "his wife". Personally, I'm still not convinced that Moffat knows who she is yet, in much the same way that Davies clearly had no idea who the deus ex machina female Time Lord in that last Tennant episode was, other than a potential tease for other people to pick up and run with.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
14:49 / 03.05.10
Also, back on the fairy tale thing, I just watchd that particular scene from episode 1 again and I've finally realised what it is about the music this series. It's Danny Elfman, innit? I mean, it's not *actually* Danny Elfman, but it's blatantly invoking the scores that he's written for his collaborations with Tim Burton.

Sorry for the third in a row, but you never know if or when an edit's going to go through here nowadays, so...

Oh, and where I said above about Amy sitting on her suitcase in the middle of the night during that wonky scene? I was wrong. It's daytime. It was night when he left her. So if that's a memory, it's a memory of something we've not seen yet.
 
 
■
15:10 / 03.05.10
Hmm. Who showed her how to fly a Tardis? Could be one of the other renegades we've met before (War Lord, Monk, Rani, Master), but somehow the line about learning from the best doesn't ring true there. Pretty much all the Time Lords we've met, with the exception of Romana, have been bad 'uns. Unless we consider that she was knocking around with the Master as an accomplice. The faceless bunch who weren't all stayed on Gallifrey. So, at some point in the Doc's future, her past, there's probably another "good" renegade Time Lord knocking around. Possibly an ally of the Doctor's who she ends up killing.
Hmm.. Romana, CVEs, pocket universes. Ooh, the speculation. Who exactly was Susan's dad, anyhow, and why did the Doc end up looking after her? The RTD daughter might be a reasonable partner, I guess, so perhaps whoever she ends up palling around with? I only ask as there's that pretty carefully avoided question about his children in ep 2.
 
 
iamus
16:32 / 03.05.10
You wanted obsessive fan-deconstruction cube?

How do you know it's a duck pond if there aren't any ducks in it?

That's an exchange from the first episode that never quite sat right with me when I was watching it. It wasn't really a joke, and it was really oddly placed, brought up and then dropped straight away. The exchange, from memory (and I DID watch this a LOT before the second ep came on), is something like...

"And WHAT is that?"
"It's a duck pond"
"Then why aren't there any ducks in it?"
"There's never been any ducks"
"Then how do you know it's a duck pond?"
"Is it important?"
"I don't know. Why would I know?"

Then he kind of collapses due to post-regenerative stuff and it's totally dropped. It also comes at the point where The Doctor is in free-associative brain overdrive, looking for anything that might be important. Just after this, he has the moment where he realises he's just seen something and missed it and then does that Martixy 360 scan thing.

There was something about that that just seemed odd and out of place. Kind of left it there, but now it's been deliberately referenced again. Is it that there's never been any ducks? Like there's never been any Daleks? Like there's never been any clerics watching Amy in the woods?

Skipping back through the iPlayer thenow, just as the clerics run off to get excised from time...

"Cracks. Cracks in time. Time running out. No couldn't be. But how is a duck pond a duck pond if there aren't any ducks? AND she didn't recognise The Daleks. Okay, time can shift. Time can change. Time can be rewritten. Ah. Oh!"

Spatula: Then, after their little adventure, he gets filled with excitement about the new Tardis interior decoration and buggers off again, leaving Amy standing in the garden. Again. When he eventually returns to pick her up, another two years have passed.

That's something that I picked up on too. It's something that's edited in a way where it's easy for the audience to infer the sequence of events, but there's the possibility that The Doctor has been up to all sorts in that wee bit.

He knows from Prisoner Zero that there's something up with the cracks in space and as soon as he's sorted stuff with The Atraxi, he's off again. There's a shot of wee Amy hearing The Tardis, and then we're back to where we think we're meant to be.

When Amy finally gets back into The Tardis, she asks The Doctor why he picked her out of everyone. He tells her there's no reason and that it's just that he's lonely and needs a bit of fun. She asks if that's all and he says aye, it is. Right in front of a stinkingly obvious picture of the crack in her wall on the Tardis display monitor.

He knows something here that he's not letting on, and it's very possible his time away has not just been spent on a quick trip around the moon.

So when they're in the forest and things are about to start getting erased from history there's this little exchange...

"Remember what I told you when I was seven."
"What did you tell me?"
"That's not the point"

What is the point then? The fact that Amy doesn't remember it happening, I reckon. Like she doesn't remember the Daleks. I picked up on that, but totally missed:

Why was he wearing his jacket? He'd lost it to the angels and at no stage throughout the rest of the episode was he wearing it. Except there...

...There's something jarring about the Doctor's dialogue for it to be completely in context.


That. And I think you might be bang on the money. I think The Doctor here might not the same one who just left her. He just might be the same one who went off for the jaunt around the moon in a new Tardis, or perhaps more likely, possibly one from later. It happens just after he says that he always comes back, and that's a line that's been heard before. Specifically in this kind of context. He's also got an urgency about him. Like there's something else very important going on that hinges on Amy getting a handle on her time-weirdness. I think there might be a link here to the season finale.

Y'know, Cracks in Time are closed by swallowing things that are *breath* chronologically-anomalous enough. Like The Doctor or River Song, both of whom are going to be there at the Pandorica. But someone here is stranger than both of them.


Also....

There's something else going on in the first episode (and others) that may be classed as spoiler because it is VERY subtle (You'd need an insanely keen eye or a good grasp on history), but it is all there and is likely to become important soon, since we're heading back to Leadworth. Can't pretend to have found this one myself...

[+] [-] Notreallyspoilerbutsensitive


And there's never been any ducks.
 
 
iamus
16:45 / 03.05.10
What is that on River's monitor when they're talking about how to close the cracks in time? The Doctor's is showing a forest scene, but River's looks like a big, skipping eye that's watching her.
 
 
■
16:48 / 03.05.10
Nice. I did read the semi-spoilery bit before, but forgot about it. For some reason I fully expect the answer to involve the old riddle "What's the difference between a duck?"
 
 
iamus
16:49 / 03.05.10
And The Doctor says the Cracks are going to keep eating until they can feed it a complicated enough space-time anomaly.
 
 
■
16:56 / 03.05.10
River's looks like a big, skipping eye that's watching her.

ooh, really? let's see. I wonder if that ties in with my theory that the thing The Doctor tagged as Prisoner Zero, in fact, wasn't, and that the weird orphan kid in the empty house is. hmm. No, I think the eye thing is supposed to be two circles failing to intersect as she tries to get a lock on with the teleport.
Ooh, what's that number in the background? 091987? Karen Gillan was born in 1987...
 
 
iamus
17:04 / 03.05.10
:P

You might be right about the monitor, there.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
17:08 / 03.05.10
Slightly off topic but, do you think Moffat is going for proper full-on homages to fairy tales in his episodes?

I mean, The Eleventh Hour was, as he's said, Peter Pan, with the ageless hero inviting the girl in her nightie off for adventures where she should never act like a grown-up.

Then you have The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone as Red Riding Hood - what big eyes the angels/Amy has, what big teeth the jagged grin of the crack in time has (I'm mangling Moffat's description of it here) and the little lost girl making her way through the forest.

Thinking about kids and fairy tales and imagination I'm suddenly reminded of a Morrison JLA story where a kid has to remember the heroes in order to free them from Starro the Conqueror's power. And if The Doctor's seemingly out-of-time entreaty of Amy that she remember something of him when she was seven could be important, or vital.

Also, from the series trailer (at the end of The Eleventh Hour), is that Bill Nighy popping up at one point because, obviously, that would be made of win.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
17:54 / 03.05.10
Yes, that would be Bill Nighy, so win for everyone!!

I too noticed the time discrepancy in The Eleventh Hour but had totally forgotten about it until the post, oh, about three posts previous. Thanks!

I was never sure in the first episode that it was taking place during our time; the discussion here makes me pleasantly less sure. If Amy is getting married in 2010, when the Doctor regenerated, the TARDIS whipped back to the late 90s, maybe?
 
 
iamus
19:31 / 03.05.10
If Amy's getting married in 2010 then that still puts Rory at around 10 or less when he became a registered nurse. If that was earlier in time, then the phone he was using should have been a lot older too. The Doctor said that the cracks in time are where there's two points of space and time pressed together that shouldn't have touched. Is it possible that things have been smashed together?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
20:08 / 03.05.10
God, I hope so. Though the Internet is ever unreliable, I read today on the Doctor Who wiki that the 1990 year on Rory's ID was a cock-up and should be disregarded. I, however, like the theory presented and will not.
 
 
iamus
20:34 / 03.05.10
Oooooh. Where does it say that?
 
 
iamus
20:36 / 03.05.10
And this is off topic, but I've totally been rewatching Moffat's Press Gang for the first time since I was wee, and I urge everyone to do so too (link to first two seasons). It's beyond brilliant and often snort-out-loud funny. Best show ever.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
20:41 / 03.05.10
Scroll down, please.
 
 
iamus
21:00 / 03.05.10
Aha, thanks.

I don't believe that either.
 
 
■
21:42 / 03.05.10
Ooh, I think it would be wrong for me to watch Press Gang again, as I had enormous crushes on most of the female cast when I first saw it 20 years ago.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
22:29 / 03.05.10
iamus: I didn't mean to infer that I think there's anything going on with the missing two years. It *is* a time machine, after all, so if he wanted to go off an piss around with her life then there was nothing stopping him from returning in the correct year. And he doesn't actually know Amy at that point - he doesn't know that the crack wasn't just a one-off, because the other examples haven't appeared to him yet - so he wouldn't have any reason to go fiddling yet. I was just mentioning that bit to point out which scene I was talking about.

Plus, it's the Tardis. He's never been able to control it properly.

I hadn't thought about there being ducks in the duck pond at some point in an alternate timeline - for me, the referencing of that line in the latest episode was hinting at something else.
 
 
■
22:49 / 03.05.10
Wouldn't it be fantastic if the closing music for the finale was Lemon Jelly's Nice Weather for Ducks?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
23:29 / 03.05.10
Doctor disappears in Tardis and leaves nineteen year-old Amy in the Garden. Then we get a cut to her sitting on her suitcase in the same spot when she's seven, in the middle of the night (actually, in the morning, as you note later on.--TG). The Tardis engines sound and she looks up with a smile on her face. Then we cut an immediate edit to adult Amy in bed, waking when she hears the Tardis engines.

Holy crap, I forgot about this. Not a dream, but a half-memory of something that may or may not have happened due to timey-wimey whatever? I would be surprised if this isn't the case.

Good catch on the fairy tale bits, I hadn't even put that together yet.
 
 
iamus
00:42 / 04.05.10
I hadn't thought about there being ducks in the duck pond at some point in an alternate timeline - for me, the referencing of that line in the latest episode was hinting at something else.

What do you reckon it's hinting at?
 
 
iamus
00:45 / 04.05.10
And he doesn't actually know Amy at that point - he doesn't know that the crack wasn't just a one-off, because the other examples haven't appeared to him yet - so he wouldn't have any reason to go fiddling yet

He's probably not gone off and done anything major here, but Prisoner Zero has mentioned the cracks and the Pandorica. And that there's stuff The Doctor doesn't know. At the very least, he knows there's something up with Amy and wants to keep her close. The Tardis monitor's crack says as much.

I think yez are right though, that there's something more to that quick scene where little Amy hears the Tardis engines.
 
 
iamus
00:48 / 04.05.10
Ooh, I think it would be wrong for me to watch Press Gang again, as I had enormous crushes on most of the female cast when I first saw it 20 years ago.

Hehehe. So did I. I'm pretty sure Julia Sawalha as Lynda Day was one of, if not THE first TV crush I had. Honestly though, it really is as good as you remember it, if not better. It's fantastic watching Spike and Lynda firing one-liners at each other until one or the other breaks. Only the first two seasons there, but the boxset is lined up for my birthday next month.
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:56 / 04.05.10
Notreallyspoilerbutsensitive

I won't be specific but listen to the damage reports coming in at the end of Victory of the Daleks. If you know your Blitz history (Blitztory?) you might spot something out of place there too.

Just as it was refreshing to have a Companion like Donna who's just a really good mate for the Doctor I think it's also a nice change to have one who isn't just mooning over him and is quite forward about wanting a little bit more than Daleks and Space-Whales from their relationship.

I thought the Angels didn't really come across as much of a threat compared to how they were in Blink. The Crack In Time seemed to take out more of the soldiers than the Angels did.

My visions of a battle scene lit only by intermittent flashes with soldiers just vanishing as the Angels displace them back in time was not to be it seems.

I'd have preferred the Angels not to be shown moving. After all we're watching them too.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
11:32 / 04.05.10
From io9:

(Speculation has it, the Pandoricum is a space where everything that's been swallowed by The Crack goes, and when it's opened, everything spills out.)

Aside from the misspell, curious speculation.
 
 
iamus
15:04 / 04.05.10
I'd have preferred the Angels not to be shown moving. After all we're watching them too.

Totally. I think that was a large part of the cleverarity in their scaresomeness.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:44 / 04.05.10
Aside from the misspell, curious speculation.

I dunno, Kali - it seems very upside-down to me. Surely the Pandorica *is* the crack - the crack is the evidence of the Pandorica opening. Otherwise, we've got two big, equally unexplained things tied into each other, which doesn't make any sense from a plotting point of view. If that were the case, the only suitable way for the Doctor to fight the big bad at the end would be by showing it a copy of the LOL WUT pear-face gif.

iamus, re: duck pond: What do you reckon it's hinting at?

It's one of the reasons I've talked myself into Amy's imagination playing a part in this series' big, hidden plot thread. How do you know it's a duck pond if thre aren't any ducks in it? Well, maybe it wasn't. It doesn't matter. It is now, because somebody said it is.

However, in view of all the inconsistencies that people are pointing out, the possibility that it's *all* to do with time-flddling is much more likely.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
18:11 / 04.05.10
Very true, Mr. Clarke. I think we all agree that whatever the Pandorica is or isn't, it's all to do with "time-fiddling" (a term I quite like) and Amy is at the center of it. I trust Moffat to play it out much better than his predecessor would've.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
20:46 / 04.05.10
Seen on a knitting forum (yes, really) by my better half and reproduced here for our fevered and ill-judged speculation:

"I was pondering the idea that Leadworth is Amy’s lead casket and that taking her out or disturbing her inside it has somehow caused the crack, much like storing a radioactive substance behind lead slows down the progress of it entering the environment…which naturally leads to the question, who put her in there and why? At the moment I’m entertaining the idea it was Rory, who has kept her like Beauty is kept by The Beast, in an idealised fantasy world of pretty duck ponds and sub post offices only to marry her and bind her to him forever- but only if she chooses freely, the classic fairy tale caveat. Or perhaps her mysterious unseen Aunt? Or even her parents? Could Amy Pond = Kal El?"

Which actually ties in with what I think might be behind the Doctor's imploring Amy to "remember". Is she the way to bring it all back?
 
 
■
21:15 / 04.05.10
Ok, so do we have shades of Bluebeard going on? How many corpses does Rory have in a cupboard somewhere? Or is it the blue box that holds a terrible secret?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
09:32 / 05.05.10
I find it hard to believe Rory is evil but then you never know what lurks behind people's faces.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:35 / 05.05.10
A secret face. With a beard. And the beard is crying.
 
  

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