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DOCTOR WHO! SEASON...um.....thirtyone (No Spoilers)

 
  

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Evil Scientist
07:39 / 23.06.10
DM, is there a spoiler on the end of that link? Warnings might be an idea if so.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
09:13 / 23.06.10
Nah, it's an uncanny science link, is all.
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:59 / 23.06.10
If there were, I'd have said so. You can go there, it's... safe-ish.
 
 
Evil Scientist
06:41 / 25.06.10
NASA is screwing with us!

It was bad enough when they shot down the Beagle over Mars.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:49 / 26.06.10
How did the Doctor get out of the box, so that he could give Rory the sonic screwdriver to let him out of the box with?

Fairly massive plot hole, that, which is a shame, because apart from that the episode was fantastic.

More River Song next year? Bah. She's getting on my nipple ends now.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
18:06 / 26.06.10
I thought that was fabulous.

And I thought it was Moffat doing exactly what RTD was notorious for only doing it better.

More later when our friends across the water have recovered from Ghana and downloaded the ep.
 
 
the Doctor
23:17 / 26.06.10
Brilliant.
Just brilliant.
And THAT scene from the last Weeping Angels episode... yeah, brilliant indeed!
 
 
Soldier of the Green
01:29 / 27.06.10
Fantastic episode and a great season by Moffat.

How did the Doctor get out of the box, so that he could give Rory the sonic screwdriver to let him out of the box with?

Standard time-travel paradox here, and I agree it's an unsatisfying solution. However, unlike "The Parting of the Ways" where this type of paradox was the climax of the season, this episode had so many more intricate and interesting pieces.

Just awesome!
 
 
Dead Megatron
02:00 / 27.06.10
The Doctor does seem to violate the causality corollary in which information has to be acquired first by some other mean before it can be given to one's past self quite often, but other than that, speaking more in a plot-devising than science-abiding way, I love the way this series ended by explaining itself backwards in circular fashion, going so far as to explaining what seemed as plot holes in previous episodes. Scifi writers are really refining the time-travel paradox cliché to an art.

Also, now that the first series is over, I can honestly say I like this Doctor better then the previous. While Tenant played Doc10 as somewhat arrogant, self-righteous and self-piting, Smith plays Doc11 as just plain weird, curious and compassive. Less emo-y, more nerdy...

The partialy-restored Dalek was cool.

Does Rory remember his two-thousand-year long "plastic period"?

Looking forward for the Christmass special...
 
 
Spatula Clarke
08:53 / 27.06.10
When the Tardis appears during the wedding reception, you can hear Rory explaining it to Amy's mum in the background and remembering events himself - "I was plastic. He was the stripper at my stag do".

The Dalek showed exactly the same thing that the Cyberman did last week: when there's only one of them, they're *far* more threatening and frightening than when there's loads of them. Also when they're not coloured like fucking Teletubbies. I hope this change in threat level, from the epic to the more intimate, is carried through to future seasons.

Also hope Smith signs on for more than one more season. River killing the Doctor feels far too obvious (I'm leaning towards Rory being her target now). And, on River, there's a slim chance that she won't be so annoying next time around - if we get to see her early in her relatonship with the Doctor, we should be able to lose the smugness and the increasingly irritating repetition of the word "spoilers".
 
 
Triplets
11:18 / 27.06.10
That's what I was thinking. The writers have painted themselves and Kingston in a bit of a corner right now with Future!Song because she's stuck as a mysterious femme fatale that (for obvious reasons) we can never learn anything about. Once we catch-up/meet up with Present!Song for her first time it should feel a lot better. Although I will quite miss the aeon-spanning chessmistress daredevil we've come to know so far.

Also Rory as Longinus, the Eternal Centurion (Millenion?) was brill and neatly gave us the 'oomph' moment that showed exactly why Amy loves the little nebbish. He dragged a big metal cage through burning London for love's sake!

Top chuckle: "It's a fez, I wear a fez now".
 
 
Spatula Clarke
11:31 / 27.06.10
The other thing that they've forced themselves into with River Song is having her timeline be rewritten - Moffat's been making out that she spends years with the Doctor, but that can't happen, for obvious reasons, so something's going to have to happen to wipe that timeline out. He said in Confidential that next series is the one where we find out who she is, and once that mystery's been explained there's basically no point to the character any longer.
 
 
e-n
16:35 / 27.06.10
Did I miss something ? Why did the tardis get pulled to Amy's wedding day and explode in the first place? Was that the "silence will fall" bloke or was that part of the league of who villains plan? How could they do this now when they haven't in the past?
At the end there I thought I heard the doctor say something about that mystery still had to be solves. Still over it, just confused.

Methinks I need a rewatch.
 
 
e-n
16:36 / 27.06.10
Oh and if Amy's folks ceased to have ever been how did she get born?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
17:26 / 27.06.10
The silence and the exploding Tardis are being covered next season - the Doctor said as much at the end of the episode.

People 'never having been born' when pulled into the light from the cracks has pretty much been accepted as taking effect primarily - if not purely - in terms of the memory of them disappearing, *not* the physical or causal evidence of their existence. Otherwise, after Rory's death the Doctor wouldn't have the wedding ring and Amy wouldn't have gone off with him in the first place, after the removal of the Weeping Angels River, Amy and the Doctor wouldn't be stood on the seashore, Amy wouldn't have created the Raggedy Doctor dolls, etc. In effect, there wouldn't be a story.

The Tardis appeared at Amy's wedding because she remembered it. I'm surprised that you didn't understand this, because it was covered in the dialogue quite extensively during that sequence. The Doctor tells her, when she's seven years old and sleeping in bed, the story of his life - the crazy old man stealing (sorry, 'borrowing') a magic box, which is old and new at the same time and so very, very blue. Then, when River leaves Amy her Tardis-shaped diary at the wedding reception and Rory mentions "that old wedding saying" it triggers the suggestion that the Doctor planted in her brain - something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue. Amy pulls the Doctor and the Tardis back into existence by remembering them - "nothing's ever forgotten, not totally, and anything that can be remembered can be brought back".
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:03 / 27.06.10
Which leaves the question on how did River Song remember the Doctor - or enough of him to remember meeting Amy by extension - and why wasn't that enough to bring him back to begin with

oh, wibbly wobbly timey wimey...stuff
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:06 / 27.06.10
I'm going with 'she came back in time from the future in which Amy had brought the Doctor back, all this guff being preordained'. Sort of, time can't really be rewritten, it was always going to be rewritten anyway.

One more paradox in the midst of all the others doesn't make much difference, I think.
 
 
e-n
01:53 / 28.06.10
Regarding the tardis and Amy's wedding day I meant why was the tardis pulled there with River BEFORE it was destroyed. Guess I meant the day before her wedding, not the magic reappearance with the dapper doctor during the reception. That was plenty clear.
 
 
Triplets
13:46 / 28.06.10
The Doctor even went to Glasto
 
 
Spatula Clarke
18:35 / 28.06.10
Regarding the tardis and Amy's wedding day I meant why was the tardis pulled there with River BEFORE it was destroyed. Guess I meant the day before her wedding, not the magic reappearance with the dapper doctor during the reception. That was plenty clear.

Oh, right. I *was* wondering.

I think the question of why the Tardis had been thrown to that particular date to blow up was one of the things in the list of unsolved mysteries that the Doctor reeled off right at the end of the episode. If not, it could probably be explained away as a result of the sentience of the ship - it knew that it had been set on self-destruct, so decided to locate that destruction in the sky above the one planet that it knew the Doctor would want to protect / the planet he was incarcerated on.
 
 
iamus
12:04 / 29.06.10
The Doctor even went to Glasto

He did! I was on mushrooms at the time in the middle of a bloody euphoric, religious experience!

Just back and just watched it last night with a bottle of wine. There was nothing about that episode that was not amazing. Thoughts to follow. Fucking bath first though.
 
 
Dead Megatron
09:00 / 30.06.10
I thought the music sucked. But hey, I wasn't on mushrooms, that would've helped.

And why was the Doctor dressed like Captiain Jack Harkness?
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
15:45 / 01.07.10
This tries to give us hand figuring out those messy bits.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
16:52 / 01.07.10
Bah. I was hoping that would have an answer to the paradox, but I can't see one.

What's Planet One? Did I miss something?

I've been watching The Brain of Morbius this week and on the commentary track, Peter Hinchcliffe mentions how Dudley Simpson had a great way of writing compositions that played underneath the action, increasing whatever mood was being created by the visual elements, plot, acting, etc, but never overpowering them. He's right - in these older stories, the music manages to be suitable enough that you barely even notice it, it melts into everything else so well.

Which is basically the opposite of Murray Fucking Gold. While he's been less of an annoyance this series than previously, he stank up the opening scenes with Amelia in the museum something rotten. YOU LAUGH NOW THIS IS A FUNNY MOMENT LISTEN TO MY MUSIC ITS THE CUE FOR YOU TO LAUGH AT THE FUNNY MOMENT THAT IS HAPPENING NOW. He also managed to remove all dramatic and emotional tension from the scene with Auton Rory and Nearly Dead Amy - as soon as the Doctor plops into being, we're back to the LAUGH NOW THIS IS FUNNY music/shit, despite one of the three characters being on the verge of death and a second believing that she's already dead, and it's his fault.

Although, talking of fault, the blame for this can't rest at Gold's feet alone. It's the director (and producer?) who has ultimate say on volume levels, musical interuptions, etc.
 
 
■
19:21 / 01.07.10
I want a Murray Gold commemorative vuvuzela.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:46 / 01.07.10
It'd sound marginally more subtle than the noises he usually produces.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
20:49 / 01.07.10
Marginally more subtle.
 
 
iamus
01:33 / 02.07.10
I'm not that down on Murray Gold to be honest. I think that he overpowers stuff every now and again, but honestly, the only point that really sticks in my head is from waaaaaaay back in season 2 during the Cybermen 2-parter. Right at the end, there an EMOTIONAL MOMENT outside the Tardis that loops the same overpowering theme ever 25 seconds. Apart from that, and the odd bit here and there, I don't have many problems with the dude. Much as I love you Spatch, I think you've got a tendancy to get caught on the little bits of annoyance and let them spoil your good times.

The Doctor in the Fez bit was, to me, perfectly played. The death of Amy and the hopelessness of Rory is the big crescendo to the last episode. From the start of this one, everything takes a left turn. We've already had the pre-credits where we know The Doctor has escaped and Amy is alive, even if we don't know how. When we're back in that scene, we know that things are brewing just outside of Rory's awareness. He asks for a ridiculous miracle, we KNOW one is coming, the music builds to it in tandem with our expectations and feelings as music should do (not building with the onscreen action, because we're not in an action scene, we're at the turn of an emotional one) till BOOM!.... The Doctor's there with a fez and a mop pulling the whole brain-fuck of what's about to come into what is currently. Gold recognises that's where the audience is and plays it accordingly. The levels are a different matter altogether and out of his hands. It sets up a playfulness that goes hand in hand with The Doctor's attitude. When things are bad and about to close in around him he goes mental and angry and desperate. As soon as the situation gains wiggle room he bounces back into the most irreverent person there.

Also, I notice the music in each episode for only two reasons. A: I find it incongruous or overbearing. B: It's at the forefront on purpose, as a tool of the TV medium, to ram home feeling that I already have. I get A from Murray Golds stuff, and I get B. But overwhelmingly, I don't notice it at all and just enjoy the show. And to me that means it's doing its job proper.


I really loved that episode. Was the total vindication of what I was hoping would be pulled out of the bag. There were bits I'd second-guessed, to a very partial degree, but it was proper Moffat in a "look how clever I am" sort of way. I've seen the guy interviewed and in person he does come across a bit as "I am very clever. Look at me", but when he does it in his writing it comes out totally in service of the story. There's just enough information seeded into what came before to set out the emotional roadmap of where he's taking you, but you'll never be able to guess the route you're going to take over the last five miles until its been taken. After it has, there's no other way you could imagine arriving where you are.

That's why I'm confident about River Song too. I don't think the writers (i.e. Moffat) have forced themselves into anything as much as they probably have a really good story to tell about her. If you think the story has now to be forced, then that means there's a million percent more room to surprise you with what actually happens. The Doctor lies. Maybe River does too. Maybe she does it for similar reasons and that's where the respect comes from. Maybe not. Who knows? Who gives a fuck until they tell it?

At the end of the day, I'm 100% certain I'd like to see her story told under the tenure of one writer who I really respect (and who invented her and has been her sole writer so far), than a series of writers/producers who are worried about continuity and pouring their own ideas in and diluting the character.

I've read superhero comics.


Can I just say.... Something old. Something new. Something borrowed. Something Blue.

Hahaha! Did I not laugh out loud and click my fingers and drum my knees at this point! From the moment he wakes up in the Tardis loving the fact he's escaped this all became the most delicious icing on the cake. What a sublime little moment that was pushing on from The Doctors speech next to little sleeping Amy (and Matt Smith's best moment in a pretty-much impeccably performed role). You could say that Amy Pond has been underwritten during the series, but it might be more true that she's been underplayed.

I like Karen Gillen. She has a really good feisty and smart onscreen energy, but I'm not sure she plays much more than the scene that's in front of her. She could, conceivably, play the same lines in such a way that gives the character much more continuity over the series. The startup of her damaged, four-psychiatrist self dovetails brilliantly with the ending, and how The Doctor manages to heal the universe and her (for this story, they are in... um... thematic resonance with each other) at the same time, but there could have been a greater continuity in how that was expressed over the whole season. But that's also true of the rest of the writing, and I'm also not an actor with my first big-break, playing that over several episodes of different genre, shot out of order with each other, so I'm cutting slack.

Generally speaking. I thought that was bloody fantastic. And was everything that Moffat does about playing with expectation, only stretched out over a season rather than two-parter episodes.

Loved....

Rory's transformation from the ineffectual character who is going to be resurrected into the heroic boyfriend who got ressurected in a very different manner than expected. At the start he was always dragging along behind Amy's 12-year obsession with the man who left her. At the end, he has far more experience than her on what it's like to wait for someone and proved his love more unconditionally than The Doctor ever could or would. That was a brilliant turn for the character and I can't wait to see him in the next series.

Also loved...

Showing how a typical RTD orgasmic monster buildup can be turned so completely into a situation that is true, left-field and satisfying.


I thought the music sucked. But hey, I wasn't on mushrooms, that would've helped.


Yeeeaaaahhhhh. But it helps more if you like the music first. Listening to music you hate while on mushrooms is a pure shite idea.

Also, it's the Doctor Who theme. I like Doctor Who.

And its theme.
 
 
iamus
02:05 / 02.07.10
Also...

The paradox of The Doctor getting himself out of The Pandorica is alright with me because I laughed at exactly the same paradox of The Doctor stealing Early Amelia's drink to give to a thirsty Later Amelia and only tried to intellectualise it later. If they want to explain his escapology paradox by something to do with The Silence in next series, fine. If not, then it's all good with me.


I think that Planet One in the link is an easy way of saying all bets are off after the locking of The Doctor in The Pandorica at the end of the last episode. Same way that putting desert penguins in the museum lets the story take liberites with certain amounts of previous history as long as it retains a certain amount of internal logic.

Actually, that's one of the things I really liked. Gives enough slack to be able to play with the continuity, but still works hard to gove an emotionally and intellectually satisfying conclusion.
 
 
iamus
02:10 / 02.07.10
And I thought that by simply calling the thing The Pandorica, every single member of the audience immediately and unequivocally believes there's something terrible in there waiting to get out, and not ice-versa.

Also that The Doctor's description of what it might have been constructed to capture perfectly matches the stories his enemies would tell about him.
 
 
iamus
02:22 / 02.07.10
Sorry... Vodka.... Finally....

As for River, if there's one thing Moffat does well, it's sparky and volatile relationships. The differences between lovers and how they hit against each other, drawing these people together against better judgement. Look at Coupling. Or Lynda and Spike in Press Gang. Imagine that on a universal scale, with the foil for a character who is pure kindness and moral absoluteness. The kind of woman that drives The Doctor crazy is not going to be easy to pin down. She's going to do some stuff that drives him mad, and the stuff that drives him mad is going to be pretty big.
 
 
iamus
02:35 / 02.07.10
 
 
Poke it with a stick
12:44 / 03.07.10
@ Spatula, iamus

Planet One is the planet the Doctor and Amy go to to translate the oldest writing in the Universe - River's little spot of graffiti.

I missed it the first time around.

Can I just add to iamus' gushing and slightly inebriated prose to say that I loved the little pre-credits section of The Pandorica Opens and especially the scene where River gets hold of the Vortex Manipulator - A Vortex Manipulator still attached to the wrist of a time agent.

Nice little allusion to Captain Jack without descending into one of RTD's stunt casting explosions.

Incidentally, anyone playing the Adventure Games?
 
 
■
13:49 / 03.07.10
I tried the first game, it ran like treacle so I gave up during the first cutscene.
 
 
Poke it with a stick
15:02 / 03.07.10
Cube - did the same for me so I lowered the resolution of the graphics and it ran at a decent speed. Controls are a bit shonky, but it's fun.
 
  

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