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ONLY NICE THINGS
06:20 / 19.08.09
I have nothing but NICE THINGS to say, Jade. In fact, I just went back to read your contributions to the "Passion of the Christ" thread, to remind myself of why I love you, and I have to say I have not laughed so hard for quite a while. And the bit where you left at the end! Five years ago! So glad you're still around, man.

(Oddly enough, I was chatting to a former barbeloid only yesterday, who mentioned that for her money the reason people left was not a shortness of time - although it's great that you're working, man! - but contributions like those to that very thread. It is, in a very real sense, the circle of life.)
 
 
deja_vroom
12:37 / 19.08.09
How pathetic (also appropriate), that the best you can do is nuzzle through 5-year old threads to dig up something to throw at me. Poor Haus, the person who wrote those misguided posts is no longer here, and left no address, so I can't really forward your message. But by all means, keep having fun in 2004*.

Also worth noticing that when Barbelith started losing its more important/oldest members and the activity started dwindling down, I wasn't even here. The ample assortment of shitstorms raging in several fora certainly (the really big ones, which required dedicated Policy & Help threads) didn't need my help (talk about taking water to the river...) So... maybe your friend just didn't share your sense of humor?

* - I'll gladly answer for anything I've said here since I came back, of course.
 
 
Char Aina
13:30 / 19.08.09
For the record, shit like pulling people up for five year old issues put off a few barbeloids I've spoken to.
Headmaster Haus, one chap said. Lovely chap too. Shame he's gone.

Still, you have done really well with the place. Keep up the good work.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
15:17 / 19.08.09
I'm sure that I'd have ONLY NICE THINGS to say about your friends, Toksik! Just as I have ONLY NICE THINGS to say about the joy Imperator de Jade (or possibly the dude who used to be Imperator de Jade, either in terms of an exchange of suit ownership or some sort of Damascene Paul/Saul conversion and transformation of the inner man) has brought me!

Seriously, I'm just trying to compliment people here. I'm just trying to say NICE THINGS! After so long, being able to make me laugh my tiny toes off seems to me to be a wonderful gift, just as your contribution is so... so admirable, you know?

I love you, man, and I'm so glad you've got the Barbelith you wanted out of this. The only question I'd like to see resolved now is whether you can bring all your friends back to play in it, just like at the end of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.
 
 
deja_vroom
15:31 / 19.08.09
Boo fucking hoo.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:11 / 19.08.09
Man, some people do not make it easy to be nice to them. Why so sad, D_V? You aren't that dude, and we can all look back and laugh at that dude's misguided views for the comedy fun they now represent. Tragedy plus time, as they say.

Anyhoo, we're wandering offtopic - I think the only thing we're still waiting for on this thread is a response from Tom re: opening/not opening. Operta or the other one, as they say in this beautiful, sunny (actually pleasantly overcast) state.
 
 
Char Aina
16:20 / 19.08.09
He was your friend too, chap. I'd hope you'd have nice things to say about him. Actual nice things, maybe even, not the condescending prickery you're currently calling nice.

But hey, my contribution, etc. I'm not in a position, etc. I'm sure my friends would be just as lovely as me, etc. If only I could read, etc.

I'm sure you have better things to do than talk to me, though. A fulfilling hobby, perhaps.
 
 
Char Aina
16:21 / 19.08.09
Anyhoo, we're wandering offtopic

lol
 
 
deja_vroom
16:23 / 19.08.09
Why so sad, D_V?

I'm very amused by how this all played out, actually. Your magic must be working, it was all rather nice...
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:26 / 19.08.09
Man, I just don't know how to be nice enough for some of the sadness in this room. It feels maybe like some people need a hug my arms are just too tiny and small to offer.

CURSE MY TINY TYRANNOSAURUS REX ARMS! CURSE MY HUGE HEAD AND TINY ARMS!

I'm sorry you had to see that, guys. Sometimes it's hard to be nice. Sometimes you just have to keep trying, keep trying to be nicer.

Check it out, Toksdude! I'm trying to create a situation where I'm not here any more. Won't that be nice for you? Isn't that worth a little smile? And maybe everyone can come back and frolic among the vine-covered columns, and death shall have no dominion. Won't that be lovely?
 
 
Char Aina
16:44 / 19.08.09
As I said, condescending prickery. If nothing else, it certainly suits you.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:54 / 19.08.09
I just don't know what to say.

I'm going to go and have a sad little walk, now, and try to come back nicer.
 
 
Char Aina
17:04 / 19.08.09
You do that. I'm sure it'll do as much good as anything. Remember to check if you need milk or bread before you go out.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
21:52 / 19.08.09
Jesus christ you two just make out already. For fuck's sake.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
21:57 / 19.08.09
Alright, just so we're clear--in a year or so, Tom may try to revamp what's left of Barbelith, but nobody is going to be here anymore, and it won't be worth it anyway because a board can't really function as a board without an active administration of some kind. So where does the admissions issue fit with all this? Haus said something about the choices being between a zoo and a monument, which doesn't square with the above description.
 
 
Tsuga
01:06 / 20.08.09
Really? It's reductive, but basically you just said it:

nobody is going to be here anymore= monument

admissions issue= zoo

with the current state, that is.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
01:22 / 20.08.09
yeah, so, what happens in a year when (if) Tom starts working on the site? In either case? Are we planning for this, or are we just sort of letting whatever's going to happen...happen?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
05:29 / 20.08.09
I think we mentioned this above - Tom seems to have got to thinking that unless there was a way to get funding for Barbelith - to make it more like a day job - the revamped version, if and when it came into being, would have the same problems - there would be no way to guarantee ongoing support in a timely fashion - if, for example, something catastrophic happened as happened with applications/banning/etc on this iteration of the board. So, I think at the current time of writing, the after-a-year revamp is a slightly more abstract prospect than it was even previously.`So, plan for this not to happen.

Looking at the current technology, one can either have nobody coming in, so the number of members at the moment is the maximum possible number of members, or you can have everyone let in, which means no protection against trolls, stalkers and weirdos ever again - not even the limited abilities currently available. Those are the two options, and I don't think at this point it's possible for anyone other than Tom to express a preference, but if he makes a choice that choice will continue for the remaining life of Barbelith, essentially.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
05:44 / 20.08.09
Oh! And I found a NICE THING! Toksik was calling me a condescending prick back in 2004! It's right here, after he thought Flyboy wasn't saying NICE THINGS about ammunition.

Now, this may not seem like a nice thing at first glance. In fact, it might seem like quite a mean thing. But think about it - it means it's OK to follow people's personal arcs over years and years, because, at least for some, those arcs are totally consistent and unchanging. Which means that it's actually quite nice to look back over people's work and see their emerging consistency, or at least their soothing regularity in the ways they seek to write off their fellow man.

Like I said, it's the circle of life!
 
 
deja_vroom
11:05 / 20.08.09
>>>>>>(...)it means it's OK to follow people's personal arcs over years and years, because, at least for some (...)<<<<<

I like this clause. It is a very nice clause.
 
 
jentacular dreams
11:06 / 20.08.09
[cross-post with deja vroom]

Maybe. But that hardly excludes yourself, and bringing up 5 year old arguments encourages a certain consistency of interactions between then and now. Perhaps we could all just say nice things from now on, and deal with the topic rather than our respective issues with one another, which are no doubt excacerbated by our collective frustration with the current state of play?

My question though would be, how timely would administration have to be? If the board is going to generate enough revenue to support Tom as a day job, how would this be possible? It strikes me that both advertising and subsrciption models require a membership base large (probably demonstratably large, i.e. actively posting) to possibly preclude the high signal:noise ratio this board has attempted to pride itself on, and which no doubt would be one aspect which we'd like to carry forward into a new iteration.

So is it even possible for some future board to recognisably embody those aspects of this board's culture that we'd like to see maintained, and generate enough self-funding to guarantee freeing up some of Tom's time, without affecting his career goals?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
12:21 / 20.08.09
There's no way that Barbelith is going to be self-funding. Let's just forget that idea, it's not going to happen, not unless the three or four people who still appear to be getting something of value out of it can somehow manage that between themselves.
 
 
Char Aina
15:54 / 20.08.09
Why should my assesment change? The subject of it hasn't. To paint me as the same man as I was in 2004 because I haven't stopped calling that unchanging spade a spade is laughable. The spade has remained the same, not the eye watching it dig.

Writing you off has never been my plan. If you had stopped being a condescending prick I wouldn't have thought to call you one again.

Unless you were referring to your own actions? Have you written Deja Vroom off?
 
 
Quantum
16:41 / 20.08.09
If the board is going to generate enough revenue to support Tom as a day job, how would this be possible?

Pay-Per-Lith? Scheduled flaming events where we all chip in on a Thursday evening to watch a snipfest between posters A and B?
 
 
Quantum
16:55 / 20.08.09
Perhaps a tithe for every time you pass off something you read here as your own?
 
 
Quantum
16:59 / 20.08.09
More ads? T-shirts and mugs? A by-subscription email newsletter that cherrypicked the best content each week and sent it to you?
(Actually, I could do that last one for free as long as we keep the list size under ten thousand people- not a problem I suspect.)
 
 
Mistoffelees
19:23 / 20.08.09
A forum that makes money? Sounds unlikely, especially for Barbelith. Most fora I visit aren't stand alone, but are part of a site (movie review site, for example). I know that some blogs are profitable, so Barbelith would probably need that kind of traffic. Even with GM himself busily sigiling away, that would be quite the challenge.
 
 
Spaniel
20:41 / 20.08.09
I think we should keep in mind that Tom's a bloody expert on webby issues, and that were his proposal to come to pass we'd be looking at a very different set-up.
 
 
Quantum
20:53 / 20.08.09
Well, I was thinking that some websites make money, and Barbelith is really a website - although we self-identify as a forum we are actually a place on the internet, I mean, it ends in .com after all and does the things that websites do (renders html, has logged in users, hosts images etc.) so actually you could argue it has the monetary potential of any website.
Let's see, where is the value in Barbelith? In terms of cold, hard, cash?

Well there's the people- having a commmunity of people (or even a list of email addresses) is an asset that could be realised- after all Tom could sell everyone's email address as data to unscrupulous spammers.
But I'm pretty sure he wouldn't, which we're all glad about obvs.

So then there's the infrastructure- Barbelith could be the new Flickr or whatever, and fulfil functions like hosting images or blogs or whatever but again, non-starter as it's leased from someone elses servers I believe (also many other sites do all those things for free, there is already a Flickr for example) so that's not a moneyspinner.

So then there's the content- Bingo! That's where the value in Barbelith is, in the words we've all written over the years, in the conversations we've had and the commentary we've generated. I mean, you could scour the internet for years and never find anywhere with a better resource of info and opinion on Jenny Everywhere, Political Correctness, Bleach etc etc. it's the content that is worth anything.
Of course, getting money for content is a task, but the newspaper industry seems to manage. Take a look at some other websites that make money by displaying or generating content, how do they do it?

Even if nobody ever posts again, there's a fair amount of virtual strip-mining that could be done, re-digesting old threads for modern consumption and cutting chunks out of the body of the 'lith like carrion crows sucking the marrow from it's corpse or Dr Frankenstein harvesting the premier cuts of the dead for his creation... wait, my rhetoric is colouring the business plan- chop up the corpse of barbelith as sell it as content to finance a new board! Nuff said!
 
 
Proinsias
22:10 / 20.08.09
Is there anyone who is actually any good at dredging up stuff that was posted years ago on the lith?
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
22:19 / 20.08.09
Is that a joke? That sounds like a joke.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
22:32 / 20.08.09
Of course, getting money for content is a task, but the newspaper industry seems to manage.

Ahem.
 
 
Tsuga
01:19 / 21.08.09
There's no way that Barbelith is going to be self-funding.
Again, certainly not in its current state. If, for some reason, Tom decided to make this his job and purpose, perhaps there could be a way. Maybe a higher-quality version of metafilter, or some novel new format. But, whatever, really. Unless and until it happens, this is all idle chatter and speculation. Which, don't get me wrong, I'm fine with; at least more than three people are posting.

Tom said: You all seem pretty disappointed with what Barbelith has become - I cannot blame you - and so my recommendation would be to find new projects, new places to talk and play. Which sounds easy enough, but it seems like it took a long time and a good deal of effort to cultivate the culture of this place with nothing but a bunch of words. You don't just go out and find something like that, do you?
 
 
Spaniel
07:58 / 21.08.09
QD, Tom might decide that the content is where the money (and love) is, but I stand by my point. The idea that he would opt to give up his day job to run a sponsored and/or subscription based yet fairly straightforward message board strikes me as barmy for all kinds of reasons, but mainly because it would never fly. The concept needs sauce, and the sauce would almost certainly require a radical rethink even if the end goal was to showcase/produce wonderful content in the Barbelith vein.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
10:35 / 21.08.09
I, for one, would pay for access to Barbelith. Even though I don't post as nearly as often as I used to, I honestly can't imagine my life without it.
 
  

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