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A transforming beam of magical rainbow energy!

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
14:09 / 21.08.09
Well, that's one - but I think that's not exactly the way it would have to work, except maybe as a demonstration that it is of interest to any potential users (and nostalgia or habit are not good recruitment points, unfortunately). Let's say a workable wage is $70,000 a year. So, in order to make Barbelith a workable proposition, Tom would have to be able to pay himself that wage out of funds generated by Barbelith. Unless over 7,000 people are prepared to pay $10 a year from a standing start, that isn't plausible, so one would need to get enough seed funding to pay that as an annual wage. Unless you're Ev Williams, that level of capitalisation needs a business plan, and I'd be pretty surprised if Barbelith as it stands would attract that level of investment. So, it's circular.
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
14:24 / 21.08.09
Even if nobody ever posts again, there's a fair amount of virtual strip-mining that could be done, re-digesting old threads for modern consumption and cutting chunks out of the body of the 'lith like carrion crows sucking the marrow from it's corpse or Dr Frankenstein harvesting the premier cuts of the dead for his creation... wait, my rhetoric is colouring the business plan- chop up the corpse of barbelith as sell it as content to finance a new board

I could very seriously envision a beautiful coffee-table book with "Best of" essays and arguments taken from barbelith, illustrated with some of the beautiful artwork that's been posted (All with permission, of course). Disinfo and nerve have both done it... The money made could fund the resurrection or new project from Tom. I'd shell out $50-$100 for such a book...

Tom: Call Taschen!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
14:24 / 21.08.09
Incidentally, gamma dude, I gave this some thought and I'm glad to say that I've identified the nice.

1) Toksik/Life Critic likes having fights on the Internet - you don't have to go back five years for that - a month ago, he responded to this thread on the difficulties of someone experiencing comment demoting on YouTube by going over to YouTube, finding an unrelated video and getting into a fight in the comments section. Nothing wrong with that - a good fight can clear the sinuses, and the makeup loving can be terrific - but it means Barbelith must be quite frustrating due to the lack of activity and thus fight-justifying moments. So, it must be nice to have one.
2) Futher, T/LC (which I think we all need sometimes - see what I did there?) seems to particularly like having fights with me - until that possibility presented itself this thread was not of interest. This must also be frustrating, esp. since my conversion to niceness, so that must be a frustration-relieving surprise also.
3) TLC also likes getting the last word, in the sense of posting repeatedly to places on the Internet until the endurance of any other voice is broken. This, I believe, counts as a win. Now, this _must_ be a bit frustrating with me, but hopefully it will be frustrating like the scene with the shower mitt in Stephen King's Pet Sematary - ultimately resolved in an enormously pleasurable fashion. I'm trying to get the conditions in place to do this now.

So, with just a bit of cooperation, I think we can make this a genuinely nice experience for all parties.
 
 
HCE
14:40 / 21.08.09
Please note the thread summary: "If you had access to this domain name, and the large—if slightly disconnected and maybe slightly disintegrating—community of people who have been here over the years, what would you want to do with it?"

This is sheer fantasy. How exactly would any of us, Tom included, have access to the people who have been here over the years? Everybody has their own list of people whose posts have been most interesting or useful to them in the past, so adjust the names for yourself, but I couldn't get illmatic, plumsbitch, alas, deva, persephone, flyboy, seth, et al. to all come be smart and interesting someplace on a regular basis if I tried, and I am willing to bet I have as much goodwill with them right now as anybody.

Do you really think all you need to do is send an email saying the board is fixed, or there's a new board, and everybody will come rushing back? Why do you think you can make money out of Barbelith when you can't even get anybody to post here? I understand that people are sentimental about the place, but this line of discussion sounds a little quixotic.

I mean, if you want make plans to maybe (or maybe not!) deliver a one-time kick to a dead horse in a year from now, if Tom has time, despite having been warned not to get your hopes up, by all means, go for it.
 
 
grant
17:51 / 21.08.09
Let's say a workable wage is $70,000 a year.

I am sooo doing it wrong....
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:02 / 21.08.09
Well, pluck a figure from the air, bearing in mind living costs. More than you can get from adwords, essenntially,
 
 
grant
18:31 / 21.08.09
Definitely.

Even reddit.com, oh mighty democratizer and free everything from the masses, is a subsidiary of Conde Nast - it seems like that kind of patronage is the only way to make a living at this kind of thing.
 
 
Spaniel
21:17 / 21.08.09
In addition to the money, I imagine Tom would be looking to do something interesting and challenging. Subscription Barbelith doesn't sound much like that
 
 
jentacular dreams
21:32 / 21.08.09
Are you saying that mediating flame wars for the next 35 years wouldn't be exiting?

Currently Barbelith is a message board. It does not need to pay someone a full time wage so they can oversee every mod request (how would we cope when they're sleeping?). It needs an active poster base and empowered mods who can moderate, ban, and maybe handle admissions on the side. Even if Tom's vision for a new iteration of the site moved it forward to the point where someone was needed to personally and actively oversee the board and it's content, there's no reason why it would need a $70K salary allocated to it. He could employ someone to do it for half that.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:04 / 21.08.09
I don't think you understood what's being said, GG. I'd suggest you look at it again. It's not about costing x dollars a year - it's about taking up time. Tom could certainly employ somebody to maintain a (currently non-existent) functional site - for that matter, he could employ somebody to build that (currently non-existent) functional site. But why would he? For one thing, that's not an interesting technology project - Grant's board and Liminal Nation both use off-the-shelf technology to run not-for-profit message boards.

As you say, a community site needs at a minimum an engaged user base and empowered moderation, to which I would add a functional technology base to automate routine functions (for example, admissions), a hardwired process for non-routine functions (banning users, appointing new moderators) and the possibility to adapt its technology to changing circumstances - for example, admissions didn't just fall off a cliff: it was changed as a response to changing circumstances. The fact that it then fell apart is because this community lacked this fifth necessity. At present, Barbelith has none of those things. In a year's time, it might have three of those - empowered moderation, a functional technology base to automate routine processes and hardwired processes for non-routine functions - although without a user base it seems pretty pointless, and without the possibility to adapt its technology to changing circumstances one will end up at some point in the future with another broken community - Tom would need either to change his life path or his modus operandi regarding code access, and both of those likelihoods have already been covered.

I think HCE's post pretty much sums up the broader issue:

Please note the thread summary: "If you had access to this domain name, and the large—if slightly disconnected and maybe slightly disintegrating—community of people who have been here over the years, what would you want to do with it?"

This is sheer fantasy. How exactly would any of us, Tom included, have access to the people who have been here over the years? Everybody has their own list of people whose posts have been most interesting or useful to them in the past, so adjust the names for yourself, but I couldn't get illmatic, plumsbitch, alas, deva, persephone, flyboy, seth, et al. to all come be smart and interesting someplace on a regular basis if I tried, and I am willing to bet I have as much goodwill with them right now as anybody.

Do you really think all you need to do is send an email saying the board is fixed, or there's a new board, and everybody will come rushing back? Why do you think you can make money out of Barbelith when you can't even get anybody to post here? I understand that people are sentimental about the place, but this line of discussion sounds a little quixotic.

I mean, if you want make plans to maybe (or maybe not!) deliver a one-time kick to a dead horse in a year from now, if Tom has time, despite having been warned not to get your hopes up, by all means, go for it.


Although, further, I doubt that anyone would want an email saying "Barbelith is back!" sent out to every email address that has ever been registered, not least because the only reason those email adresses were gathered was for password recovery and, subsequently, banning, and nobody was invited to agree to receiving service updates, which would make it some species of spam, no matter how well-intentioned. It's a matter of some concern that the Barbelith applications email address is currently collecting a load of people's email addresses along with personal information (grant, it would be useful to change that wiki entry, if we're assuming that admission is going to be fixed at some point between a year's time and never).
 
 
Tsuga
00:30 / 22.08.09
I'm still confused by the thread title:
A transforming beam of magical rainbow energy!
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:37 / 22.08.09
Pretty cure rainbow therapy?
 
 
Evil Scientist
08:19 / 22.08.09
I assumed Care Bear Stare.

I always assume Care Bear Stare.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:03 / 22.08.09
Great minds, dude.
 
 
Quantum
11:42 / 22.08.09
See the bespoke thread on the care bear stare as the likely inspiration for thread title (pics obvs.)
 
 
Char Aina
12:16 / 22.08.09
Ah, Headmaster Haus, in full effect. Do try to get your facts straight, though, Sir. It rather harms your unassailable authority figure roleplay when you fuck that up.

Perhaps you could stop pulling things out of your arse over which you wish me to argue? I don't see why you want to give me any reason to return, however nonsensical.

I'm especially concerned at how sexual you make this fantasy of aggression of yours. Please stop that, if your compulsion will allow nothing else.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:21 / 22.08.09
You see, Gamma G? All is well with the world!
 
 
Char Aina
12:36 / 22.08.09
You see? I defame, and he defends!

You are pathetic, Haus. You are a troll with a vocabulary, little more.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:52 / 22.08.09
Dude, I'm sorry. I need to get out to a party soon, but: you did go to an unrelated Youtube video and get into a fight, you didn't post to this thread until there was an altercation involving me, and then only to attack me rather than to post ontopic, and you're currently in the last word death spiral. My intention was not to defame, only to describe.

It's totally cool - people are people, and sometimes they get a bit crazy; I am big enough to acknowledge that the long history of quote us unquote (not in a sexual way, I hasten to add), including the way you hassled (from my and their highly subjective viewpoint, of course!) people who are not just my friends but people I love and revere, has probably made me a little cranky when you arrive in threads to attack me.

So, time to make a better universe! I apologise if my metaphorical palette was displeasing to you. And if it makes you feel better about this whole situation to call me pathetic (other Barbelith word of the week, along with "quixotic"!), please do go for it. Here, just as a sign of good faith, have the last word. I really hope you can find it in yourself not to make it too rude or mean.
 
 
HCE
16:11 / 22.08.09
Maybe the last word can be 'ergodic' -- another Barbelith favorite.
 
 
pony
17:20 / 22.08.09
I'm kind of confused about the inability to un-break the board for less than a full-living wage with which to support Tom. I understand it in terms of the idea of a renaissance 'lith in a year or whatever, but in the meantime shouldn't there be a very basic "let's fix the critical problems, then perhaps we make things filled with rainbow energy when we get the time/cash" imperative?

As I understand it, the "broken" comes down almost completely to inability to ban, hence the inability to let new people in, hence the slow death. Is there any particular reason Tom has been unwilling to give ONLY NICE THINGS and Randy the ability to ban? I get that it's a major responsibility that he might have wanted to be solely responsible for, but obvious that hasn't work.
 
 
grant
21:43 / 22.08.09
(grant, it would be useful to change that wiki entry, if we're assuming that admission is going to be fixed at some point between a year's time and never).

I'm not entirely sure what to fix it *to*... the registration message also goes to a Policy thread and not the wiki, so editing the first post over there would be the first thing to fix.

If that's currently possible....


----

I do wonder what would happen if Tom did decide to delegate banning authority right now. Not much at first....
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
02:26 / 23.08.09
It's a non-question, essentially. It can't be done without a change to the technology base, and that change to the technology base, as was covered in the first post to this thread, is not going to happen until at least a year in the future, assuming that nothing of a higher priority comes up. Fixing the immediate problems is within the set of things that won't happen in the near future if at all, essentially.

He needs not to be responsible for the community, as he says, and he isn't in a position to make anyone else responsible for it. For banning, it isn't a question of delegating authority - that's effectively been done, albeit in a slow and inefficient way -but of putting in place a new technology. New technologies are not going to be put in place, so whether or not you think it would be an easy fix, it's functionally an unrealistic one, as is any fix not based on the technical setup of the board right now. This is a basic and self-evident truth, and if it isn't clear at this point I don't really know what more can be said.

(Also, banning isn't the only missing link - the admissions system doesn't work, and ways to fix that might themselves make banning non-meaningful. At this point, it's not sensible to suppose that these issues can or will be resolved - hence my desire to get a firm ruling on which kind of broken the system ought to be.)
 
 
pony
03:42 / 23.08.09
Regardless, this sort of "we need Tom full-time or we're doomed!" thing seems unrealistic. Most of the people still floating around have seen "technology base" issues on other websites, and have seen them resolved in a relatively quick and effective manner. I think MeFi is decent example of this sort of ongoing tech evolution happening in a smooth fashion in an ongoing way, without huge budgets.

If Tom wants to say "I don't have time and don't want to be responsible for this," I totally understand. It's his site, and we should respect that. However, the idea that the letting people in/kicking people out issues are just technologically untenable at the moment just doesn't seem to mesh with what people experience on other portions of the web, money issues or no.
 
 
Quantum
10:19 / 23.08.09
Looking at the post directly above yours it says "New technologies are not going to be put in place, so whether or not you think it would be an easy fix, it's functionally an unrealistic one"
Does that clear it up at all? The problem is not that nobody has invented the internet technology to ban or admit people to message boards, the problem is (see first post) no technological changes will be taking place for a year at least.
New technologies are not going to be put in place.
 
 
Quantum
10:24 / 23.08.09
It's not that "we need Tom full-time or we're doomed!" it is that Tom has the keys to the Batcave, all we can do is rearrange the giant coin and T-rex, maybe try on the old Robin outfits and polish the batmobile remembering past glories.
I don't think all this talk of living wages for Tom etc. is helpful, at the moment my approach is to frolic around the Monument painting pics of care bears on the cave walls.
 
 
deja_vroom
11:07 / 23.08.09
(What was the origin for that T-Rex, anyway, anyone knows?)
 
 
miss wonderstarr
11:23 / 23.08.09
"The T. Rex comes from an adventure on "Dinosaur Island" (Batman #35, 1946)."

Wikipedia: Batcave
 
 
deja_vroom
15:23 / 23.08.09
(Thanks, miss.)
 
 
Quantum
08:51 / 24.08.09
Ah, Dinosaur Island, the Batman equivalent of the Barbarian Wisdom thread.
 
 
Evil Scientist
11:34 / 24.08.09
Great minds, dude.

Always five moves ahead, it's like a game of chess. Played by T-rex's, in zero-G, in the dark.
 
 
toughest, fastest, fatest
11:46 / 05.11.09
Maybe I'm being dense, but why not just set up a brand new message board, using phpbb or something equally easy, and archive the current boards via a link on the new one?

Hey presto you have a new board, complete with new registration capability and banning ability.

The tech is not the issue - what seems at issue to this outsider is that a community is stagnant and dying - it could be saved, by combining a new board with an extra (Grant M related or not) hook to bring people in, maybe a blog, maybe a portal - neither would be technologically difficult or time consuming, it would be the work of a few hours to set the whole thing up.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:01 / 05.11.09
Go for it!
 
 
toughest, fastest, fatest
12:37 / 05.11.09
Well, tell you what if enough people want me to I will, if enough people to make it worthwhile (enough being a number to be determined by us on this thread right here) reply then I will register a new domain name, set up a forum and a linked blog that tries to stay true to the themes on Barbelith - I'll give it a new name, and stick a link to this board on it.

But as I said it is not as simple as the tech - it requires a community which you cannot simply will into being with technology - is there enough of a Barbelith community left to make a days work setting this up worthwhile?

Founding members would also have to take responsibility for spamming (er promoting) the site across the internet in a bid to get recruits, to build a sustainable online community you need to a constant stream of new members to replace natural wastage and keep discussions fresh. Of course that creates new problems as older members get frustrated by the repeating of what are to them old arguments...

I think evidence shows that most online communities have a natural life span, especially if like Barblelith they deliberately restrict membership to a self selecting minority.

So if we did go away from here and create something, it would be a new thing - it would not and could not be Barbelith MKII but something new.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:50 / 05.11.09
Barbelith didn't restrict its membership to a self-selecting minority, fyi. Otherwise, go you!
 
  

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