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Doctor Who Season Four - spoilers and speculation

 
  

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ONLY NICE THINGS
12:56 / 26.12.07
As ever, I don't think hatred is a good term to use to describe people not liking something. Having said which, I didn't think this was bad at all, and actually I'm not sure at this stage if we were all watching the same programme; I'm a little confused by some of the criticisms. The jaunt to Earth unnecessary? Mr Cropper's innocence of Earth history and customs was a big human note in the story, as was the Buckingham Palace set-up, Astrid's desire to see new worlds, the teleportation schtick that was required for Kylie's finale - I could have done without the wavy Queen at the end, which was a farce too far for me, but the Cribbins and the joke about how something ghastly happens to London (well, Cardiff) every Christmas were nice touches. Storytelling 101, really.

Also, this being Who, does one not just sort of expect that most aliens will look basically like normal-sized humans (or like the hardest-working actor in BBC cult television, Jimmy Vee)? It was a bit odd that there was no attempt to whack in some sort of justification - you know, they are a primordial offshoot of humanity, descendants of the Atlanteans who fled Earth, that sort of thing- but, you know, it's a children's programme, not blooming Stargate. I would have preferred to have had them as humans, in some period between now and Cassandra time, visiting the old (but still populated) homeworld, but RTD has clearly decided he wants the Christmas specials to happen basically at Christmas of that year, so that's a constraint on the story.

The Kylie death was a bit Children's Film Foundation, and the falling effect really overused - was Debbie Chazen's death foreshadowing, or just a limited shooting budget? - but I thought she had done good work up until then. Geoffrey Palmer roxored.

My main issue, apart from it not quite being able to work out whether it is a children's show or not, which bedevilled the third series also, was that the plot required a more than usual level of deus ex machina - Security Override One, of course, Bakaetc having an EMP bomb in his chest, and the bit where the Doctor convinced the robots that as a stowaway he didn't need to be killed - which was either clever or stupid, I suppose. It's not quite a deus ex, but the Host defaulting to the Doctor's control rather than Midshipman Frame's was profoundly irksome. Again, this is easier to buy in a kids' show.

In true Poseidon Adventure style, I was expecting the nasty posh bloke to sell them out or abandon them with the sonic screwdriver, but having the Go Team moments and then having him as a rather ambivalent survivor at the end (has he learned anything? Is he a better person? Is he gloating at the end, or just remarking on the strangeness of life) worked well for me. Sometimes Kylie dies and Smarmy lives, and they are both lives worth preserving.

I think you'll be OK, Kali. It's not a favourite episode, but it's not bad. I was quite tickled also to find that the cyborg-hating, class-riven world of Stowe actually has stricter corporate homicide laws than we do.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
13:08 / 26.12.07
Actually, Haus, I've got to tell you that out of everyone's reaction towards this episode, I think yours is the most thought-out and concise. It makes me regain the eagerness I still have for it. I watched the first 10 online last night and didn't want to have my whole perception be: "Well, all my Barbe-mates think this is shit, so I guess I should watch it for the sake of being a fan and not expect anything nice."

Nope, now I watch it with less-jaded eyes. Thanks.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
14:13 / 26.12.07
Personally I wouldn't even go as far as saying I disliked it. Just that I didn't like it nearly as much as quite a lot of episodes of New Who, and that this dissapointed me, since I was hoping the extra long, Kylie staring Christmas extravaganza would be one of the most fantastic episodes of the show. Was okay though really, just not fantastic in my opinion.
 
 
Lama glama
15:20 / 26.12.07
And the public seemed to enjoy the episode. It reached 15 million viewers towards the end, with a 55% audience share. The trailer looks like it contains bits and bobs from the first 6 episodes or so.

The first episode, "Partners in Crime," features the lady who used to be in Corrie sporting a sonic pen.
"Planet of the Ood," and the Pompeii episode also feature in the trailer, with those rocky aliens presumably being the villains. Tim McInnery is in the trailer and it looks like he might be a somewhat nasty character in the Ood episode.

Agatha Christie's episode has that giant wasp I'd reckon, and the Helen Raynor Sontaran romp is also featured. It seems like we'll have a more diverse visual texture next year. Planet of the Ood seems to feature snow, which we've never had outside of the closing moments of The Unquiet Dead and the Christmas specials.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
15:25 / 26.12.07
it was my least favourite of the Xmas Specials, and as many here I thought the bad bits shadowed the good.

i'm a fan of THE POSEIDON ADVENTURE and have also been of these new WHO series - my first contact [heh] with the mythology since the Peter Cushing movie. but this felt sloppy and forced - maybe too many spent on CGI and scenery and not enough on the script itself.

9th Doctar Eccleston had issues with Genocide. the Tennth will have his with dying\parting companions. Kilye's death was completely unnecessary. and she looks older than i thought, eh? then again: doing well for a surviving 80s singer.

wondering how the chemistry between him and Catherine Tate will work out...
 
 
teleute
16:19 / 26.12.07
This is a lengthy but quite interesting Times article regarding the development of the Christmas Doctor Who episode first published a couple of weeks ago, tracking the development of the whole show over a year. There were two things that it illustrated to me - firstly that the creators do see the show as children's entertainment (whilst acknowledging its wider appeal), and secondly that they had absolutely no idea where the show would be going other than they had a Kylie and were going to use her.

Apologies to those who may have already read it but I found reading it a second time after watching the show yesterday actually more interesting than the show itself, which left me feeling somewhat indifferent (unlike previous episodes such as Blink).
 
 
Spaniel
16:20 / 26.12.07
was that the plot required a more than usual level of deus ex machina - Security Override One, of course, Bakaetc having an EMP bomb in his chest, and the bit where the Doctor convinced the robots that as a stowaway he didn't need to be killed - which was either clever or stupid, I suppose. It's not quite a deus ex, but the Host defaulting to the Doctor's control rather than Midshipman Frame's was profoundly irksome. Again, this is easier to buy in a kids' show.

I gotta say, that's exactly the stuff that got on my manly manly chest hair. I may be wrong - I never pay nearly enough attention or commit enough Whoverse plot points to memory to be able to back up this thought - but it seems to me that this kind of convenient, whimsical storytelling has bedevilled the show in its new incarnation. That and it being The End of the Universe DANGER! a few times a season - another problem that would be ameliorated by arguing that it's for the kids.

I dunno, like Ghadis I'm not really a fan so I always feel like a killjoy when I turn up to moan, and it's not like I can't see what people get out of it, or that I never enjoy it - that Blink episode rocked all the cocks.

You know I'm 100% sure there is a Who lurking out there in storyspace that would punch all my buttons.
 
 
The Strobe
18:45 / 26.12.07
Nope, didn't like that one bit. Well, I liked Clive Swift, and I liked Tennant, and Kylie wasn't terrible...

but Russell Davies was just fucking awful. I mean, that "cyborg rights" moment?

Davies takes the show in a sentimental direction - which would be OK if he didn't make the Doctor so blimming sentimental to do so. And all those speeches. It just felt so clumsy and heavy-handed.

I quite liked the villain, though; at least the big-reveal of the big bad was OK.

Also, despite the aceness of Clive Swift... he was still involved in too many of the umpteen endings.

Season 4 preview looked OK, though. So that salvaged the last thirty seconds.
 
 
Spaniel
19:30 / 26.12.07
What was good about the very obvious been there done that a million times "have you met Davros he's a lot better" villain again?
 
 
The Strobe
20:18 / 26.12.07
It was more the "oh, look - a life insurance scam!" or therabouts plot device making its way into Who.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:19 / 26.12.07
Not quite life insurance, though - if he wipes out the Earth, the board of Max Capricorn will be sent to prison for mass murder. Which I like, because I suspect that this is what Russell T Davies thinks must happen in such situations, but actually makes Stowe far harder on corporate malpractice than Earth. Which I like.
 
 
H3ct0r L1m4
08:37 / 27.12.07
 
 
Evil Scientist
17:23 / 27.12.07
Entertaining Christmas viewing, and (in my opinion) far more entertaining than last year's offering.

Formulaic and derivative well okay, but still enjoyable for that.

Fansquee for the Host's "Robots of Death"-a-go-go voices.

Viewer's quote however goes to my Mum: "So the Doctor only takes pretty girls as companions these days?" (after watching the Doc shoot down Mr Copper's offer of joining him on the TARDIS).

I think that would of had a bit more credibility if the whole world didn't know he'll be picking up Donna seconds into the next season. Okay I exagerate, but still.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
22:38 / 27.12.07
Just finally finished watching it (I don't do Bitorrent, so I have to go to my usual means for things that don't air over here).

Ahem. I liked it better than The Runaway Bride, but nowhere near as much as The Christmas Invasion.

I have to agree on some of the points made by other posters. The killing off of the obvious minority lower class was hamfisted and very disappointing as they were extremely likable characters and much more interesting than the nasty capitalist snob. (I know one shouldn't do a lot of soapboxing in these things, but really, he deserved to live? I don't care about RTD's line of "He's not the one you would have chosen to live, is he? Of course, if you could choose who lived and who died, that would make you a monster.") The villain was really quite laughable and the whole bit with the Doctor snapping his fingers and ta-dah! The Host wing him up to the bridge. Groan-inducing. Don't really see much a Ripley moment in Kylie's heroics, honestly. I see why you might think that, but not so much. The bit with the Queen rushing out and saying thanks and Merry X-mas? Well, bless, it was complete farce and camp. And made me shake my head. I did like Astrid's "second" death. I liked the Doctor's bit saying, "You're not falling, Astrid. You're flying." I thought that was sweet. Wasn't fair Mr. Copper didn't get to be a Companion because he wasn't wearing fuck-me boots. He would have been a good'un.

So not as terrible as I was led to believe, but certainly could have been a bit better.
 
 
Lama glama
23:24 / 27.12.07
I watched it again today, and what I liked and didn't like became a lot more pronounced.

It really doesn't handle that large ensemble very well, does it? Season 2's "Satan Pit" and even s3's "42" managed their casts far more admirably. Everybody seemed shunted to the side and their personalities were only wheeled out when it was required for them to do a bit of exposition or a grand death scene. I know it's a trope of disaster movies, but some more character development would have been nice.

Clive Swift was the best thing about it. His performance was warm, funny, perfectly executed. I demand Mr Copper fan fiction!

Kylie's performance on the other hand was even more bland on a second viewing. I know she hasn't acted since The Street Fighter movie, but there was no fluidity to her performance. She delivered an emotion and then just detached herself from the scene, letting her face go blank and no longer adding any nuance or minor details to her character's behaviour. Little things like character stance, poise, fidgeting etc, go a long way and Kylie invested none of those things into her very one dimensional role. Catherine Tate had a similar amount of screen time in last year's special but brought so much more to the role. She had comic timing, moved wonderfully and looked like she was interacting with the material at all times.

Maybe Kylie's non-interaction was a failure on the director's part, but James Strong usually delivers visually and gets strong performances from his actors even risible episodes like last year's Dalek two parter. And heck, even in Torchwood's "Cyberwoman."

Still though, the episode is a lot of fun. Not as rewatchable as The Christmas Invasion, but full of quirky ideas, occasionally fantastic direction and superb Murray Gold music.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
23:29 / 27.12.07
Honestly, I don't know what the fuss is about. I never expected Kylie to properly act in this anyway. She does her bit as a blonde cutie foil to the Doctor's dark handsome quirkiness and that's about it. Expecting anything more is sort of folly when you think about it.

It's really along the lines of this shitty thing we do here in the States with our tv shows: stunt casting.
 
 
Olulabelle
19:46 / 28.12.07
I think that's maybe why it wasn't so gripping as lots of the other episodes. I just don't think Kylie is a very good actress and I didn't feel moved. I probably would have if it had been someone better (not Catherine Tate) and then I think the whole show would have been more successful.

I read the Times article posted and it really seems like the whole reason for the episode was Kylie mania, like Russell Davies had just forgotten he was supposed to be writing a Dr Who episode because he got lost in the delight of having Kylie in it. Which is a coo, I suppose, but only if the episode works. Otherwise better off without her.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
20:47 / 28.12.07
Exactly, Lula. The whole episode does really have this weird sort of "Yay! We have Kylie! Uh, we have to write an episode now, don't we? Crap." feel to it. As though Voyage of the Damned wasn't written until AFTER she was cast, not before. I suspect that if it was written before she was, RTD would've scrapped the script or postponed for some other time and written something else that seemed more her speed.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
21:02 / 28.12.07
It was great! Much better than this website!
 
 
■
22:27 / 28.12.07
letting her face go blank

I don't think she needs let it, and that was always going to be the problem, really. I enjoyed it, but there were many moments (esp the finger-clicky and the "I'm the boss" bits - whatever happened to the humility Dr Dave admired in Dr Pete?) that made me squirm.
Mind you, I was watching it in my parents' bedroom away from the rest of the family (without having seen a preview for a change), which brought back happy memories of the last time I watched TV there, which was Who towards the end of the McCoy era. So, yes, glad the tradition is there but, no, not a great episode by any stretch.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:14 / 28.12.07
What you may not be getting, though, Kali, as one unfamiliar with our ways, is just how much of New Who is stunt cast. In that episode alone the Captain and Cropper were very well-known comic actors from highly successful series. Catherine Tate, Simon Pegg, Mark Gatiss, John Simm, Penelope Wilton and of course Billie Piper were all big British light entertainment names before being cast in Who. Kylie is exciting, but she isn't unique.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
23:20 / 28.12.07
Why, blimey, I have never heard of a single one of those actors.
 
 
Triplets
00:35 / 29.12.07
Burn.
 
 
Triplets
00:36 / 29.12.07
For those not keeping track; Kali is a self-proclaimed anglophile. Trufax.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:57 / 29.12.07
Well, there's anglophilia and there's anglophilia. A familiarity with Keeping up Appearances or Ever Decreasing Circles would be very difficult to obtain and not very profitable. The point is merely that Doctor Who is a mass of stunt-casting, because all sorts of English actors want to be on it - John Simm said, I think, quite openly that he appeared in it specifically to be the coolest dad ever. So, having Kylie may well have been exciting, but it wasn't outside the bounds of possibility - I was more interested in Derek Jacobi, because it isn't really his demographic in the way it is Billie's or Kylie's.
 
 
ghadis
01:02 / 29.12.07
Kylies performance is the least of my problems in this latest Dr Who adventure. I think she can act very well. Anyone who remembers her,as Charlene, nearly tearing Jims ear off in an early episode (poor Mike!) of Neighbours will back me up. She's got some acting chops on her!!

It's just the rest of it that was shit.
 
 
Triplets
01:22 / 29.12.07
Having come to the conclusion some time ago that I no longer have anything in common with the vast majority of Barbelith posters

Oh woe is YOU, Randy D.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
01:27 / 29.12.07
Has someone put smilex in the water lately? It's like a full moon in here.
 
 
ghadis
01:29 / 29.12.07
Did anyone see the Xmas Dragons Den??!!
 
 
ghadis
02:04 / 29.12.07
I was going to post another Bernard Cribbins pic but i've decided not to. I'm not sure what to do with it now.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
06:28 / 29.12.07

CRIBBINS IS ANGERED BY YOUR AMBIVALENCE!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:30 / 14.01.08
Rich Johnson is reporting the news that Chris Chibnell has been snaffled up by CSI: London which, if true, is great news for Doctor Who.
 
 
Lama glama
18:38 / 14.01.08
Yeah, it gives Helen Raynor that step up the ladder she needs!

In other Who-related news, Phil Collinson (producer) is rumoured to be leaving at the end of this year to take over as Executive Producer on Coronation Street.
 
 
jentacular dreams
01:43 / 19.01.08
A second viewing later, thought I'd add my two penneth. Sadly they are mostly negative with respect to the last two christmas specials, both of which I thought were far superior. Not that I didn't enjoy it, but that I largely had to switch off my critical facilities to do so.

Voyage of the Damned just felt *rushed*. Rushed in it's storyline, rushed in it's execution. Runaway Bride had pace (got to love the chase), but never felt so unbalanced. Maybe it's just a side effect of the re-edit VotD went through (still not sure if this edit was too long or two short for the story they had), maybe it's because the plot of tRB allowed it to establish that something was very wrong right from the get-go. But it didn't hang together so well for me. The re-edit may also explain why he chemistry between Astrid and the Doctor was a bit poor, as many have mentioned. Donna (no matter how annoying she was) and the Doctor had much more of a rapport, especially when Lance was included. Astrid didn't seem to be all that much of a character (were they were so excited about having Kylie they forgot to write her a character?), and a lot of the main cast seemed a little more two-dimensional than I would have liked, especially rich boy and Bannakaffalatta-adjective/verb/noun (that and the 'information' pre-vox of the Host were much more annoying than Donna). Alonzo's rapid recovery from being shot. The less said about Corporate Davros the better.

I can't help but feel the writing was a bit underpants gnomes. They seemed to always have A and C sorted out, and I get the impression they then had to scratch their heads a bit to come up with B. Titanic + ? = earth in danger. Villain sabotaged ship to crash into the earth because ? = thing the doctor must foil. Astrid dies to save the doctor by ? = emotional impact (there was no reason she had to stay in that forklift truck as it went over the edge). But there were a few nice nods to the Poseidon Adventure, and Douglas Adams, and surprisingly far fewer to Titanic, which hopefully means that the episode will at least age well.

And finally, internal consistency seemed way off. 5000 credits = 20 years worth of debt repayments, whilst the final scene states that 1 million GBP = 50 million credits, implying that the Van Hoffs can only afford a fiver a year (not a glaring plot error but pretty annoying for anyone with a head for figures, and also RTD clearly has no idea of how credit cards actually work). Host can be knocked out by the EMP (but cyborgs can't?), but the first time this is used, one recovers after a minute or two, but this isn't considered a worry. Use of psychic paper for whimsical trips to earth, but no thought of using it when trying to convince steward to believe the doctor. Next highest authority etc etc. OK maybe this is the pettiness of my inner (and indeed outer) geek speaking*, but things like that should be picked up somewhere along the line? Of course the other christmas specials had their own issues (where in the hell had the Racnoss empress been for the last 4 billion years), but nothing that struck me as forcefully as this year's episode.

Mind you, it's still Dr Who, and whilst I've tried to just keep my comparisons to the previous christmas episodes, I can't avoid the squee factor of the last half season skewing my expectations a little. There were also a lot of good aspects to it obviously, most of which have already been covered upthread (poorly researched earth history, deserted London etc), and I'd really like to see Clive Swift's character again. But whilst some episodes seem to be aimed at both younger and older viewers, I felt I would have enjoyed this one a hell of a lot more 10 or 15 years ago (you know, before I became dead inside). Still, anything that winds up christian voice can't be such a bad thing!

* One thing that really is my inner geek speaking is that the falling effect includes no acceleration, which is why it never looks convincing.
 
 
Lama glama
14:22 / 01.02.08
Just a heads-up to fans in the UK that there are going to be season 4 trailers in specific cinemas for all of February. They're apparently airing with Cloverfield, Juno and Rambo, if you want to catch one of them.
 
  

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