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Doctor Who Season Four - spoilers and speculation

 
  

Page: 1234(5)67

 
 
Seth
09:48 / 11.12.07
In a glorious, impossible, perfect world they'd get Yoji Enokido to take over as showrunner. In fact in heaven he'll write all television, full stop.
 
 
DavidXBrunt
10:02 / 11.12.07
Even Last of the Summer Wine? It's not heaven if Roy Clarkes not writing Summer Wine.
 
 
Lama glama
10:33 / 11.12.07
Oops, misread who was taking over what position. Never the mind then.
 
 
Lama glama
21:32 / 14.12.07
I'm the Doctor. I'm a Time Lord. I am 903 years old and I'm the man who is gonna save your lives and all 6 billion people on the planet below. You got a problem with that?

Squee-rific trailer up on Youtube now. It looks like VotD is going to be a cross between the Poseidon Adventure and any other number of disaster movies. Except with Kylie Minogue and a wee little red alien.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
00:17 / 15.12.07
Y'know, I don't care I'm Yank. I pretty am in heart with the Who Advent calendar.

Ahem.

As you were.
 
 
FinderWolf
03:07 / 15.12.07
why would that trailer have gotten removed? was it a bootleg or something? (seems like an odd concept; a bootleg TV trailer)
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:13 / 25.12.07
Wow. That was amazingly bad. That reached new levels of appalling. Why did this have to be written by the man who wrote 'Aliens of London', 'World War Three' and 'Tooth and Claw' and not the man who gave us 'The Parting of the Ways', 'Love and Monsters' and 'The Sound of Drums'. A few nice character moments but mostly mawkish dreck. When you've got Debbie Chazen of all people being given a better part than Kylie Minogue, something has gone seriously wrong with Christmas.
 
 
Shrug
18:26 / 25.12.07
They crossed that fine line between lazy storytelling and um... really lazy storytelling.
Also, I think I may have seen this one before.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
18:48 / 25.12.07
Why does the website still have time on the countdown clock?

(Initial reports of disappointment thus far make me sad.)
 
 
Triplets
18:48 / 25.12.07
Yeah, having downed some Christmas pud (now a bit cold, as if all the life had been drained out of it) I'm revising my opinion from "good, I suppose" to "a bit shit".

Don't get me wrong, this was classic New Who but there was some incredibly dodgy stuff in there. The Doctor's "I'm 903" speech, the gender and racial politics which seemed to suggest that if you're black or a woman your chances of surviving are slim to none[1]. Dozens of movies with black characters saying "it's always someone like me who gets it first!!" later and we're still seeing black characters get it first? Moving on, hot on the trails of the Season 3 finale we get another Christ the Doctor image with DW and his angels carrying him up to pierce the heavens.

Jesus. And not in a good way!

Last of all, off the top of my head, the prannying about by the fake Queen mum. I've got no love for the royals but "thank-yew Dawktah!"? The shit? And that newspaper guy stickin' abaht for his lurv of the good ol' Queen-mam, sir. Pure nationalistic masturbatory tosh.

There were good bits. Kylie was bloody good as starstruck Astrid. She may not win awards but she's come a few thousand miles from Street Fighter. I did, also, like how they didn't let the Doctor get toooo gurny-wangsty over Rose or Martha. Just a quick nod to them existing and moving on.

The final fifteen minutes with the Companion Go Team (Kylie, Greedy Guy and Richard Bucket) was great, and showed how much the Doctor inspires the people he comes across.

But, yeah, the bad far far outweighed the good.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:51 / 25.12.07
Hmmmm, possibly designed with people who've had a few christmas drinks in mind, I think. And taken in the light of something that isn't supposed to be thought about too much, I reckon it was enjoyable enough, but nothing special. Still I have to say I enjoyed the little flashes of James Marsters on the Torchwood ad after the show more than I enjoyed the show. But that's just me I guess.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
18:54 / 25.12.07
Oh and I really want Clive Swift to be the Doctors new companion now. After a series of young women from 21st century earth, I think a confused older man from space with odd ideas about Earth would make a nice change.
 
 
Kali, Queen of Kitteh
18:55 / 25.12.07
Man, this is upsetting.

And I'll have to wait a bit before I can find someplace that's downloaded it.
 
 
Triplets
19:00 / 25.12.07
the Torchwood ad

I know! Robson from Jerome's going to be in it! Isn't it exciting.
 
 
Feverfew
19:08 / 25.12.07
Dammit, I missed the Torchwood ad. Youtube is, I suspect, my friend.

Lord, though, but it was bleak, wasn't it? When you have Geoffrey Palmer shoot someone in short order, it's rarely a portent of happy times, although it would have made an interesting episode of "As Time Goes By".

I'm still undecided, but I'm intrigued by the sheer amount of death on show; first, all the passengers not within safe areas; then, all the passengers in safe areas, except, of course, for those with The Doctor, and even then those one by one until you're left with The Character Least Likely To Be Rooted For and Clive Swift with his made-up degree...

Still, "Allons y, Alonzo!" was worth a brief grin.
 
 
ghadis
19:19 / 25.12.07
the gender and racial politics which seemed to suggest that if you're black or a woman your chances of surviving are slim to none[1]. Dozens of movies with black characters saying "it's always someone like me who gets it first!!" later and we're still seeing black characters get it first?

Well, they did twist it a bit to have a comedic, FAT, black character bite the bullit first, with his comedy fat wife to pointlessly follow him shortly after (ok, she was saving lives but couldn't she have just bounced the Halo off the bridge with her funny belly?)

It was pretty dreadful. I kind of enjoyed it in a way whilst watching, being full of xmas cheer and all, but it was way too long and some of the dodgy stuff was just way too much.

I guess they were trying to make comments on the nature of sexual and racial and body politics in big Hollywood movies. Which could have been great but i think they fucked it really big time.

Although i admit to a growing feeling of excitment when i thought the Titanic was going to crash into Buckenham Palace at the end in an Independence Day way. But they bottled that. To the great joy of Bernard Cribbens (getting his Dr Who pension of course!) And he's back in the new series i see!! Along with other oldies. (Such a shame about Roy Castle and Bonnie)
 
 
ghadis
19:24 / 25.12.07
Plus there were one or two pretty good lines. I liked all the stuff about badly researched Earth. Eating Turkey people on xmas etc. And Kylie in a forklift is pretty cool.

May be my new pet phrase of 2008. 'Kylie in a Forklift'
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
19:30 / 25.12.07
I guess they were trying to make comments on the nature of sexual and racial and body politics in big Hollywood movies. Which could have been great but i think they fucked it really big time.

Agreed. I do think there's something interesting there, in that the characters who died, whilst death prone in Hollywood are exactly the characters one might have expected to survive in Doctor Who; and that they are the ones the Doctor and possibly RTD himself would have wanted to survive. However because subverting our expectations of what might happen in Doctor Who leads to exactly what might happen in a really bad Hollywood production happening, it fails pretty badly.
 
 
Triplets
19:30 / 25.12.07
Yeah, Kylie in a forklift was awesome (and will be an awesome suit). That was SO her "Ripley in Powerloader" moment. Get away from him you head!

Futurama did the badly researched Earth far better and far earlier, however.
 
 
Shrug
19:30 / 25.12.07
I guess they were trying to make comments on the nature of sexual and racial and body politics in big Hollywood movies. Which could have been great but i think they fucked it really big time.

I'm not sure if they were striving for any kind of layered commentary wasn't the fat lady sacrificing herself a re-hash of that self-same scene in the Poseidon Adventure? It was all pretty reminiscent.

Kylie was great, though, so glad Madge didn't want the gig.
 
 
Triplets
19:35 / 25.12.07
God, I don't want to sound like a moaning arse on today of all days but... I think the thing that fucks me off a lot about Kylie's death was it was so lazy.

She's a big name pop star, no way they were going to get her to sign on for more than a Christmas special and, fitting someone her status, they have to give her a bit of a explodey, heartfelt exit. Or did they? Why not have the Doctor fly off with Astrid for more adventures, only have her gone by the time the 4th season starts properly? No real explanation ever given beyond a faraway look. He just steps out of the Tardis alone, status quo returns with Minogue confined to Christmas Continuity Closet, and it leaves the option for her to come back for another special down the years.
 
 
Triplets
19:37 / 25.12.07
Great line before 2007 finishes, though:

"I'm not a loser!"
"You couldn't even sink the Titanic!"

I am the grin.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
20:38 / 25.12.07
Did anyone else get the impression that RTD wrote the last scene of season 3, with the Titanic coming through the TARDIS wall, with absolutely no idea of how the story was going to follow on from that? "I know, Titanic in space, we'll say it's a space ship on a vacation cruise, we'll say everyone is aliens even though they all look totally human and as far as we can tell their society is exactly the same as ours"

It didn't even seem bigger, as the Chrimble shows had been, for better or worse, replace Kylie with a regular actress, cut out several scenes which seemed to be in there just to pad things out (the abortive shopping mission, Tozen's wailing over hubby, the scenes with the Doctor trying to bring Astrid back, or chatting with Mr Bucket by the TARDIS afterwards) and you'd have had an episode that would have gone in the middle of a season and no-one would have cared about.

And I don't think we have to care about the fat couple buying it, the captain, the stweard, the cooks and the technician bloke all bought it first. There just seemed to be a lack of enthusiasm all round. Even that awful scene with Kylie on the forklift was badly staged.
 
 
Lama glama
21:28 / 25.12.07
I'm surprised by the negative reviews to be honest. It wasn't especially cerebral or even approaching RTD's earlier greats like Utopia, Gridlock or Parting of the Ways, but it was enjoyable Christmas day fare. There were some nice thematic moments, the Doctor yearning for control over the fate of those around him, harks back to his talk with Jack about the heart of the TARDIS potentially creating a vengeful god.

With the various returning characters next year, it's interesting to see that RTD will possibly not be squeamish when it comes to showing that a companion's return might have negative consequences, what with Astrid's resurrection being bittersweet.

I liked that kind of stuff, along with the Doctor clicking his fingers to command the angels, "take me to your leader" (which the 9th Doctor already said), the music, direction and overall production values were all fantastic.

What didn't work, was forcing every character to have a mysterious or interesting background. Even though the episode was extended all of these characters didn't have enough space. Also cringe inducing was the Queen and admittedly, Bernard Cribbins' character (who incidentally will be in several episodes next year).

Kylie was okay, she didn't detract from my enjoyment too much, but she was very bland. She had no warmth (compare her icy facade with Billie Piper or Freema Agyeman's warmth and energy and she comes up looking abysmal). Most criminal of all was her zero chemistry with David Tennant.

Overall, it was more even and enjoyable than last year's Runaway Bride, but nowhere close to The Christmas Invasion.

And finally, trailer talk:

Very zesty, after last year's lacklustre effort. Looks like it's going to be an RTD era "best of" season, with visual cues (industrial corridors, returning aliens, arch female villains, Judoon-esque Sontarans) we've seen before remixed into a glossy techno-charisma 13 episode edit. Roll on!
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
21:33 / 25.12.07
I really enjoyed it. I especially liked the "London's dangerous at Christmas so everyone's fucked off" stuff.

Mind you, I always had a soft spot for the Poseidon Adventure.
 
 
Lama glama
21:39 / 25.12.07
Also, the new theme tune is certainly exciting. A little too aggressive, possibly, but nicely different. It doesn't seem to match what the opening visuals are doing anymore though.
 
 
ghadis
22:01 / 25.12.07
You are all out of your Santarized heads!!

It was rubbish and the only thing that may save the Who universe is.....Dr Who=



I may be Santapissed but i hope so. For 2008. So much...
 
 
ghadis
22:04 / 25.12.07
Maybe for 2009 then!

CRIBBINS FOR XMAS 2010!!!


Now that is my next tattoo!!
 
 
Hydra vs Leviathan
23:17 / 25.12.07
Well, that was... good and shit, IMO. Shit for the reasons already mentioned above (fat, poor, mixed race couple = MUST DIE!!!1!!), shit for the lazy death of Kylie (why even bother with all the Astrid = anagram of TARDIS hype if all she was is a one-shot character who dies in a vaguely Pullman-esque bittersweet way?), and shit for the villain being yet another rent-a-cripple Davros knock-off.

(Dammit, i was hoping for the D-Man right up until Kylie knocked him off the edge... OK, it was obvious Max whoever-it-was was going to be the bad guy, but the Max face could have been a mask...)

OK, i've always had very ambiguous feelings about the disabled characters (and actors) in Who. Davros had a kind of... grungy, schlocky, pseudo-epic kind of oldschoolhooror melodrama to him that made him transcend the bitter-crip-villain archetype a bit, and also i liked the fact that, unlike so many other disabled or disfigured characters in sci-fi, he wasn't rebuilt into something more physically powerful than he was before, a la Darth Vader, Robocop, etc, but remained disabled relative to normal humans and physically vulnerable, while still displaying the classic supervillain ability to survive near-certain death on multiple occasions - but the increasing numbers of knockoffs of him following the same lazy cliches, and with pettier and pettier motivations, just seems to suggest to me that it has become nothing more than a very dull, not to mention potentially offensive, stereotype (with its corresponding tragic-sacrificial-hero stereotype in little red alien guy doing his redemptive Vader thing).

Anyway, digression. I liked the blatant homage to both the second and third Alien films jammed into one scene. First obvious Alien(s) reference in Dr Who? I liked the vaguely Douglas Adams-ish feel of it (didn't Adams write or co-write some project that was loosely based on the "Titanic in space" idea?). I actually think Tennant Doctor might be better at comedy/parody Who than "serious" sci-fi Who. I actually liked Kylie's acting (she felt more like an old-school Who companion than like a Rose or Martha substitute). It would have been good for the Doctor to have had a not-from-present-day-Earth companion IMO. I liked the whole thing where they landed on Earth and it wasn't even certain what era it was (could have been taken over by the Daleks/Cybermen/Autons/whoever, or everyone killed in some mysterious space plague, or anything), and then the explicit referencing of previous episodes.

Still, i'm not sure whether or not for me the good stuff was overwhelmed by the ungood stuff. Meh. They could have at least trashed Buckingham Palace as they flew over it...

But, the trailers... Mummies? Vampires? Ood again? Someone trapping or controlling Ood? Could be interesting - wonder if there's going to be a link drawn between Pyramids of Mars and The Satan Pit?
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:43 / 25.12.07
Having come to the conclusion some time ago that I no longer have anything in common with the vast majority of Barbelith posters, especially when it comes to films/tv/music/games/comics, I'm not at all surprised at the hatred for what I thought was a very good episode indeed.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:45 / 25.12.07
Also: what's that old cliche about people jumping straight onto the internet to moan about something they've seen on television before they've even let the end credits finish?
 
 
ghadis
01:50 / 26.12.07
BOXING DAY CRIBBINS LOVE1111
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:55 / 26.12.07
Oh give over Dupre.

I think Llama has nailed down the two main problems with the story, Kylie didn't really get enough development early on and it was too busy.

I'm interested that several people have said they thought it was better than 'The Runaway Bride'. I'm no Catherine Tate fan, but I thought that held together a lot better.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:57 / 26.12.07
Hey, I didn't think it was shit at all.
 
 
ghadis
10:15 / 26.12.07
Well, i thought it was mostly shit with some good bits. But then i think Dr Who is mostly shit with some good bits anyway so i'm not really a fan. Also missed the end credits, as Randy pointed out, so i guess i might have missed something great there.
 
  

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