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Son Of Barbannoy

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Less searchable M0rd4nt

10:52 / 23.05.08

Oh, we've booted one or two out of the airlock of late.

15:43 / 23.05.08

Yeah. It's not an immediate thing, but the process we have in place now would appear to work. It's a much cut-down version of the one that was proposed a while back, before we had what we thought was a working ban button: discussion is had as to the merits of the proposed ban and the reasons for the proposal, either Haus or me-san then contacts Tom, pointing to the discussion thread and requesting the ban. Tom contacts the other of the two of us who didn't contact him in the first place, asks if we've got any problem with the ban request, then gives El Fucko the heave-ho.

Only, I think we're now not bothering too much with the discussion part of it. Not to the painful extent that we were previously. Notification of intention to ban in Policy or a request to ban in same, deadline on dissenting voices, then email to Tom as appropriate. Bye-bye M. Tosspants.

Regrettable Juvenilia

16:07 / 23.05.08

Could you do me a favour in that case, and ban me?

My Mom Thinks I'm Cool

16:20 / 23.05.08

Could you do me a favour in that case, and ban me?

I've never understood these requests. if you're at the point where you're willing to ask others for a ban, are you not at the point where you're willing to scramble your own password and save the board the fucking effort?

not sure if you're meaning to be taken seriously, here, but every time a poster asks this I think "huh?"

16:22 / 23.05.08

The sad thing is, I think a thread for MI posters to discuss women we like (and a similar thread for FI posters to discuss males) might be interesting. It might even allow us to interrogate the ideas we have about (wo)men we like/admire/are sexually attracted to in terms of how consistent they are with other areas of our political, philosophical and religious outlooks.

For example, I like and admire strong, physically tough women. But part of the reason for that is that I'm a masochist of sorts and find such women sexually attractive. So is admiring such women a genuine act of commitment to feminism and equality or is it just an act of reductive sexualisation via the male gaze?

These are the kinds of ideas I'd like to explore in a thread about the kind of ladies we like, but now I feel constrained because the guy who proposed that thread did so in a really wanky way, and I'm loathe to start a thread of my own on this topic for fear of being seen to pick a scab.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

16:25 / 23.05.08

Maybe fire one up in the Headshop, which would open it up to easier discourse about the Whys? I'd certainly post to that.

17:07 / 23.05.08

Walking on eggshells is annoying. Honest discourse shouldn't be tiptoed around as long as some guidelines are followed: No sexist, racist, mean shit... We should want to talk about stuff without trying to hurt or offend. Even about maso/sadist tendencies, if one has them.
It's touchy, talking openly about sexual attraction, fetishes and kink.
As example, here in Canada there is an openly gay musician named Ashley McIssac - Amazing fiddler - who was severely critisized for speaking to the press about how he enjoys giving & recieving golden showers. That in itself was controversial to most Canadians, but he spoke about being 19 and with his 17 year old (Technically underage)lover. He became a pariah and lived in obscurity until it blew over and he made ammends (Somewhat...)
Now, I feel if Ashley was straight, and posted on Barbelith, he's get jumped on because it would be seen as a "Power game", unhealthy and demeaning...
Pleasepleasepleaseplease don't get me wrong: I do not want in any way shape or form open up a "What's PC" debate. I don't.
But I do want to post about stuff which potentially may offend without fear. If I offend, I'll look deep and hard at my memes and think of why it may be offensive. I will most likely apologize and move on. Maybe I'll learn something new and change my ways. Maybe I'll just agree to disagree. But I don't want to constantly second guess and censor myself for the sake of "what if..."
I say if you want to start a post about what type of person turns you on VV, go for it. It's all fair.
... if it's honest and not done in a way to purposely piss people off, that is... Just be prepared to face the potential slings and arrows, and if you're wrong, admit it.

17:11 / 23.05.08

That's an attitude I agree with.

Better just to vomit on the table and get started cleaning up than spend all day bellyaching.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

17:20 / 23.05.08

Now, I feel if Ashley was straight, and posted on Barbelith, he's get jumped on because it would be seen as a "Power game", unhealthy and demeaning...

Would it? What is "if Ashley was straight" doing in there? My experience on Barbelith has been that--douchespray aside--it's tried to be a fairly kink-friendly and kink-aware place where atacking anyone's sexuality, gay, straight, or any other flavour, has been frowned upon. Heavy hetflirting is generally discouraged, but a relationship would not be judged more harshly just because it involved a male and a female rather than a same-sex couple.

17:57 / 23.05.08

Sorry, I'm probably just reading things into it... I was generalizing again, thanks for pointing it out.
I have noticed (elsewhere, mind you) that the dynamic in gay couples are treated (and judged) differently that the dynamic in a hetero couple in many cases. I guess people think that since gay couples are not a majority, things are different for them, and stereotypes are formed.
My (dumb) assumption is that most people feel that way and I was pre-judging what I thought was the "Majority".
In an effort to get my thoughts out quick, while they spin in my head, i can be less than eloquent.
And sometimes douche-y.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:07 / 23.05.08

I think that there is an argument for parsing het relationships somewhat differently than same-sex relationships, simply because the dynamic between women and men in society is different than that between men and men. It's not a position I'm entirely in agreement with, simply because there are a lot of ways in which a relationship between two men or two women can become unbalanced (eg. income differential, wide age gap, able-bodied/PWD relationship, class differences, just off the top of me head), and a lot of ways in which the societal inbalance between men and women can be rectified in a relationship between a man and a woman.

Aside from cases of manifest abuse and damage I'd only find a D/s relationship with a male Dom and a female sub problematic if it was specifically framed as being "in the natural order of things," with submission being the proper role of women generally, rather than being framed as "we get off on this and we're happy, your kink is okay too."

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:13 / 23.05.08

...it's also worth pointing out that in most spaces, it's gay or otherwise non-normative relationships that are treated with suspicion and attacked. Being part of a space that was at one time a lot more queer-normative has been good in terms of rectifying that. If that queer-normativity means that at times certain sexual choices that overlap with my own are subject to a more thorough interrogation than I might previously have been used to, I'd consider that a small price to pay for the broadening of my horizons.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

18:13 / 23.05.08

There tends to be a lot of pressure from outside to define same-sex partners in terms of, say, "who's the woman and who's the man," (which has to do with masculinity/feminity and sexual position, blandly enough). That pressure is usually released, at least in my relationship in extremely flexible, shifting identification for the purposes of comedy and usually based on context -- probably one of the more benign and beneficial purposes of camp humour that stops us having to explain for the umpteenth time that we don't, you know, actually define our relationship in those terms...

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

18:23 / 23.05.08

See, now I'm back to really wanting that SBR forum...

18:25 / 23.05.08

See Mordant! You were able to frame that so elegantly where I couldn't even spit it out.
I was trying to say that for some people an M/F Sub/Dom relationship is always unhealthy and an experssion of what the M will unconsiously see at the "Natural order of things". In some cases this may be true, especially through a Freudian lens...
Again, I think I was trying to pre-empt critism; second-guessing my second-guesses. It's hard to tell if people will be open minded or rabid. Sometimes it's 50-50.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:28 / 23.05.08

You might want to have a look at some of the discussion on the topic that's occured in the Headshop.

20:10 / 23.05.08

Could you do me a favour in that case, and ban me?

PM me your login and password and I''ll bin them. At the moment, I'm sorry to say that your return to the board is pissing me off pretty mightily. There are still people here - a dwindling number, but they are here - who continue to make efforts to turn the place around. All you've done since coming back is piss and moan about how shit things are, while making no effort to add anything of worth.

If you're going to troll the place - which *is* what you're currently doing - then you might as well leave again. If you're going to request that you be banned, then I'll ask you for the means to lock you out myself or I'll contact Tom and ask that he kills your suit. I did the same with Fungus of Consciousness and I'm not about to leave myself open to accusations of shifting the goalposts for different people, depending on how long I've known them or how much they may have contributed to the board in the past.

Try and make a difference or leave. Or, as I say, PM me or Haus your login details and we'll help you with that.

Not happy that I'm feeling the need to say this, either. Ball's in your court now.

20:43 / 23.05.08

I just want to say from my tupence pov: yeah Flyboy's recent pissed off and complaining behaviour has turned from very valuable reminders of standards to a bit of a pain (when keeping in mind how valuable, interesting and thought-provoking he can be in his contributions, and he decides to just piss instead of piss-and-contribute).

I say this because I really prefer he'd come back with a bigger participation, specially after reading old threads (and I'd love for Ganesh to return as well, even if by the use of extreme force, but oh well...). Things like Glenn I don't even talk about because, well... what's the point, really? I'm not a mod or a member of the lith's golden age, but I just want to say I'd find more than understandable if folks eventually decide it's Hammer Time.

Glenn Close But No Cigar

23:18 / 23.05.08

Stop....

Hammerstein!

Can't touch this...

ONLY NICE THINGS

23:38 / 23.05.08

Yes, well. I'm not hugely discommoded by Glenn's need to demonstrate that his 2:1 from Durham University of Central London is at least as good as a first, really, given how much time he spent as treasurer of the Arthurian Society, or indeed Flyboy's intermittently amusing descent into madness. However, if anyone who is feels like requesting that either of them might have happier lives if they were banned, could they please do it? We might at that point get a bit of forward motion.

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

03:37 / 24.05.08

PM me your login and password and I''ll bin them.

Eff that. He's been here long enough to know how to scramble his shit himself. Why does he want to be kicked out? The door's over there, buddy.

Kali, Queen of Kitteh

05:36 / 24.05.08

(briefly assumes the guise of the wizened old person with the pipe and rocking back and forth on the rocking chair, nodding sagely)

I, myself, always decline about these sort of motions...but weeeell, I have to say: let them hang themselves by their own rope. If they are determined to continue these sorts of action, we've done too little already.

(now assumes current guise)

If someone wants to "quit" the 'Lith, you don't need any of us to do it.

Anna de Logardiere

09:28 / 24.05.08

I think we should ban Flyboy, Randy, Haus and Kali. Then we could have a m************ party!!!! Yo!

Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero

14:50 / 24.05.08

However, if anyone who is feels like requesting that either of them might have happier lives if they were banned, could they please do it?

Missed that. I don't see the reason to ban Flyboy. If he doesn't like the place after all his friends have left, he's welcome to follow suit. He doesn't need to be kicked out, and I don't like the drama he's indulging in by asking to be banned.

17:36 / 24.05.08

If someone wants to "quit" the 'Lith, you don't need any of us to do it.

Some sort of support group might be necessary, though.

ONLY NICE THINGS

22:54 / 24.05.08

I think you've missed the point, TG. He's not asking to be banned because he believes it would happen. He is asking to be banned to illustrate his belief that it won't.

01:22 / 25.05.08

If you're going to troll the place - which *is* what you're currently doing - then you might as well leave again.

Why should he leave? Flyboy on bad behavior is still better than Glenn on good behavior. If you want to be fair, make a list and work your way down it. You'll have a ways to go before you get to Flyboy.

03:07 / 25.05.08

I feel like my post kicked off (or at least contributed) in mangling Flyboy's posts with Glenn's type of trolling in my weak attempt to justify why I was making the effort to mention Flyboy's recent contributions in my post and not Glenn's -- when they're not even in the same league even by a longshot.

And it might have given the impression that I find Flyboy's input to be more annoying than I was trying to convey. I was just trying to say that it's a shame he feels he must only rant (/act on) how shitty the state of the lith is (and the occasional leash pullings) like his recent inputs - when we know how interesting he can be beyond that. Didn't mean he was anything even near bannable, or any genuine annoyance.

Hope I made myself clearer just in case, and didn't screwed up or read things in the wrong way due to my lack of sleep.

03:13 / 25.05.08

At the moment, I'm sorry to say that your return to the board is pissing me off pretty mightily. There are still people here - a dwindling number, but they are here - who continue to make efforts to turn the place around. All you've done since coming back is piss and moan about how shit things are

I don't know, man. You have, arguably, made some fairly inflammatory anti-Barbelith statements yourself, recently.

I'm not going to go 'link'' to them here, because Tom Coates presumably still reads this thing occasionally, and I dare say he's had enough, by now.

08:44 / 25.05.08

No, go on. Link to them. The difference would be that I've not made my every post for the last twelve months a complaint about the people on the board, that my complaints are generally about the technology behind the place rather than sweeping generalisations about the members and that I'm still playing an active part in trying to improve the place.

If lots of people think there's a direct comparison between my posting and Milton's, then they're free to say that. If it's just you, AG, then I'm perfectly happy to carry on in just the way I have been.

10:09 / 25.05.08

Okay. Well this may or may not really count, what with Pete being a designated buster, but still, I suppose he had feelings too;

In my new 'don't give too much of a shit' mode, I'd considered going scorched earth. But then I gave up, what with the not giving too much of a shit.

Fuckus of Nonsense should be the first to get thrown overboard, obviously.

(I'd rather not get into this though, to be honest; your instincts about trying to keep the old ship afloat are the right ones, I think.)

10:26 / 25.05.08

Call me a fool if you like, but I think if we all made an effort to direct our ire/barbed humour towards trends in society in general, rather than those as manifest by some lone character who might not have realised what ze was signing up for, then this place might still have legs.

Alternatively, I suppose we could carry on tearing strips off each other, in the name of making Barbelith beautiful and perfect.

I don't mind either way, but shouldn't somebody?

Less searchable M0rd4nt

10:34 / 25.05.08

For someone who doesn't care either way you don't half talk a lot. It's a bit like the way you don't care about environmentalism or feminism, isn't it; a cool and stylish indifference that for some reason needs to be broadcast repeatedly, just in case one or two people might miss how much of a toss you don't give.

10:57 / 25.05.08

So your example is me suggesting that somebody who'd done nothing but be an idiot on the board should be banned? Somebody who, ten seconds later, and presumably without reading my post, asked to be banned himself? Brilliant.

I'm perfectly happy to carry on behaving in precisely the same way that I have been, thankyou. I have absolutely no doubt that you'll do the same, considering that you've never shown the slightest interest in doing anything else.

Anna de Logardiere

13:02 / 25.05.08

Actually Randy I don't think you should continue to behave in that way because what you are doing here is as derogatory to the board generally as Flyboy has been recently. There's little difference between whining about the lack of functional capacity that barbelith has and outright aggression towards someone for that whining when you really get down to it. You're not solving any problems, you're whining too so if you want to be this pissed off towards him then stop doing it publicly and making everyone else feel like all this place has is an endless list of problems. In fact could all of you just stop doing that because you're creating more problems than a troll or functionality issues.

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