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Banning Discussion: Claris Dancers

 
  

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Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
08:10 / 21.06.07
Or indeed people who seem to become more motivated about the issue of treating people who spout racist or sexist bullshit fairly than they do about anything else.

Not anything else, you know. It's just that on Barbelith I can count on people to take racist/misogynist-nonsense spouting posters to task. You, for instance. You do it with more energy and efficiency that I ever could. So instead I do my best to make sure that even bastards and assholes whom you think don't deserve it get a fair deal, because I think that's important, even on a message board, and I don't always see anyone else doing it.

No, we don't have an outlined code of conduct. We do have a pretty common baseline of shared values, as you say, which to me means we are able to say "Fuck up again and you're gone". If we have in fact told someone that, and they fuck up again, well then we're all good aren't we.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
08:11 / 21.06.07
Out of interest, TG, is this what you do? Start PM conversations with people who have just got weird about women and try to counsel them into a functional relationship with Barbelith? Might I ask how that's going?

Not well. But you know, try and try again and all that. I remain optimistic.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:12 / 21.06.07
I hear you, man. I gots the shotgun. You gots the briefcase. Right?

 
 
illmatic
08:18 / 21.06.07
In-deed.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
08:19 / 21.06.07
I don't get that reference, so I'm going to assume that it's fitting and appropriate and funny.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:20 / 21.06.07
Sorry, I've moved to have that deleted - it was just a joke about The Wire (greatest show on television ever). I'm sure your motives are good, Tuna Ghost.
 
 
illmatic
08:21 / 21.06.07
Leave it there, man. Flyboy don't scare.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:23 / 21.06.07
Nah, man. The game don't have to be played like that.

(Okay, I'll stop now.)
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:32 / 21.06.07
Fly, are you doing that "assuming everyone watches the same TV programmes as you" thing again? 'Cos I'm lost if it ain't Big Brother or Doctor Who, to be honest.

I USED to always be an "apologist", or at the very least as optimistic as Tuna Ghost. Unfortunately, paranoidwriter managed to kill any empathy for trolls I may have once had. (I also have a deep-seated hatred of Libertarianism, but I'm trying not to let that affect my judgment).

Can we just ban CD and then have pie and maybe a bit of a dance?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:33 / 21.06.07
We do have a pretty common baseline of shared values, as you say, which to me means we are able to say "Fuck up again and you're gone". If we have in fact told someone that, and they fuck up again, well then we're all good aren't we.

Except that we don't give holocaust deniers a second chance. We don't give aggressive homophobes a second chance. We didn't actually give Shadowsax, our closest comparison point, a second chance, in the sense of delivering a "formal warning". We tried to with 33 and Paranoidwriter.

The one chance we do give people is often incredibly long and drawn-out, but there is no rule, written or uwritten, that everybody gets a second chance, after a first chance which culminates in a formal warning.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
08:38 / 21.06.07
I don't feel that my post was much of an exaggeration, no, more like an explosion of pent-up GRR at being told to play nice with Qwiks and related.

I don't expect you or anyone else to "play nice", only to give them a chance to explain their actions or apologize or to announce that they're going to shut the fuck up and just watch how Barbelith operates. They may not choose to do this, and this may mean we have to listen to one final rant before someone gets the boot, but honestly I listen to stupid offensive shit all day from people around me in real life when I don't have an entire message board full of clever people who agree with me on these issues. So I don't think asking you to put up with one more post from an idiot gasbag on a message board where just about everyone agrees with you and is interested in your mental well-being, all in the spirit of fair play, is demanding too much from you.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
08:43 / 21.06.07
Let's be nicer to Tuna Ghost. Qwik should be banned but I'm not getting an apologist vibe from TG, I'm getting an attempt to be a pleasant person vibe and there's nothing wrong with that. This stuff is unacceptable but that doesn't mean we shouldn't preserve our own humanity and kindness and TG hasn't even suggested that Qwik shouldn't be banned.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
08:45 / 21.06.07
Except that we don't give holocaust deniers a second chance. We don't give aggressive homophobes a second chance.

Yes, because of our shared values.

We didn't actually give Shadowsax, our closest comparison point, a second chance, in the sense of delivering a "formal warning". We tried to with 33 and Paranoidwriter.

I had thought his banning thread was a formal warning. It functioned like one, except it was incredibly long and exhausting.

The one chance we do give people is often incredibly long and drawn-out, but there is no rule, written or uwritten, that everybody gets a second chance, after a first chance which culminates in a formal warning.

Hey, fine by me. I was unclear whether or not CD was made aware in the past that if he fucked up again he was out the airlock.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:46 / 21.06.07
Let's be nicer to Tuna Ghost. Qwik should be banned but I'm not getting an apologist vibe from TG, I'm getting an attempt to be a pleasant person vibe and there's nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, I can totally see where TG's coming from. That used to be my strategy too. It never worked, and I'm too tired now to bother, as, it would appear, are a lot of us, but TG clearly isn't, and we shouldn't give him too hard a time for trying, really.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
08:47 / 21.06.07
... I'm getting the sense that the frustration that we feel towards this ignorant person who has come on to barbelith is being directed at one of our members, simply because he feels we should try in one, last ditch attempt. If we allow that frustration to be misdirected it creates an unpleasant space for all of us to inhabit and that's a sad thing so I think let TG try and we should try not to get pissed at him because he still has some compassion and energy.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:49 / 21.06.07
TG: Dude, I'M AGREEING WITH YOU. My comment about being told to play nice WAS NOT AIMED AT YOU. It was aimed at the kind of comment that AG made in the Barbannoy thread, and similar past annoyances. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding but I don't know how I can be any clearer.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:50 / 21.06.07
Anna, I totally agree with you.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
08:54 / 21.06.07
Holy shit Strangers, my bad. I feel like a heel now. I need to go to bed. Will do so now.


We don't many people to reach out to bastards, one or two is fine, and I hope that even if (or when) I get worn out on this stuff someone else will be willing to try.
 
 
Closed for Business Time
09:10 / 21.06.07
Kick. Shit. Out.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:18 / 21.06.07
I had thought his banning thread was a formal warning. It functioned like one, except it was incredibly long and exhausting.

Ah - OK. I think I misunderstood you. So, the banning thread functions as first warning, it provides a right to reply, and after that right to reply (which CD has) is taken up or waived, one can boot or not. Fair enough.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:43 / 21.06.07
We don't many people to reach out to bastards, one or two is fine, and I hope that even if (or when) I get worn out on this stuff someone else will be willing to try.

Incidentally, this is a bit of an irritating statement. Essentally, it's a form of white knight syndrome. It implies that somehow other people in this thread have forgotten fairness in the rush to judgement, and thus that there is a need for one good man (usually) to stand up for these virtues. This leads to Policy camping, as we have seen with Mathlete and Paranoidwriter in the fairly recent past - intoxicated with the unexpected aura of being taken seriously that posting in the Policy confers, they posted again and again, increasing the volume as the returns in consideration and respect diminished, fuelled by the sense of being the stand-up guy in discussions about episodes in which they had not been involved.

Personally, I think that many of us did the fairness a year ago, back when Qwik was telling us that he was glad Andrea Dworkin was dead (she also, presumably, claimed to have been raped to gain power over men, in order to gain an unfair advantage) and we did not immediately move to have him airlocked.

If you want to pick these cases up when they reach the Policy, that's fine. Clearly it fulfils a function for you and it might also fulfil a function for Barbelith. If you want to engage in private correspondence with offensive and trollish posters in the hope that they can be redeemed, or at least made aware of their right to reply, also fine. However, it is worth being aware that this means you are coming in at a different place from those who have been engaging since 2006.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:05 / 21.06.07
Flyboy Given the length of time it will probably get to take Tom Coates to notice that this conversation is happening

Just to say that I did PM Tom yesterday evening to alert him to this thread. Of course, this relies on the idea that he even logs in regularly any more or checks his PMs.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
12:21 / 21.06.07
Perhaps someone should email?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:23 / 21.06.07
I'll email him along with the latest applicants. How long should we leave it before bringing him in, and how much discussion?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
13:34 / 21.06.07
I don't think we have anything to discuss, the only question is do we wait for Qwik to respond again?
 
 
Quantum
14:18 / 21.06.07
Let's not. He could just stop posting for a year. I can see what Tuna is saying about bad posters keeping quiet, but anyone can read the board whether they're a member or not.

I suggest we change the title to "Banning discussion: Claris Dancers", amend the topic summary accordingly, and go from there Haus

Yup. This is clearly a CD banning thread.
 
 
illmatic
14:27 / 21.06.07
I agree with Anna. I would find it theoretically interesing to hear from Qwik why he bothered joining a board that is so at variance with his basic beliefs, but practially, I could live without this. No reason not to ban immeadiately.
 
 
Tuna Ghost: Pratt knot hero
17:16 / 21.06.07
That was supposed to read "we don't need many people etc". Don't know if that makes it any less irritating.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:36 / 21.06.07
Oh, I got that. You keep on keeping on, TG. If you weren't doing it, somebody else would be, and probably will be. The white knight can provide a useful check on the process, although I don't know how that functions in the face of this much lack of ambivalence.
 
 
Char Aina
22:51 / 21.06.07
So, the banning thread functions as first warning, it provides a right to reply, and after that right to reply (which CD has) is taken up or waived, one can boot or not.

To be clear, that's about as much 'due process' as I was after.
 
 
Spaniel
10:16 / 22.06.07
Ban bum bam
 
 
Sibelian 2.0
11:31 / 22.06.07
Ban Ban Bo Ban
Banana Fana Fo Fan
Me Mi Mo Man...

BAN!

This has been a public announcement from the "Twerp-Free Barbelith Campaign".
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
11:46 / 22.06.07
Another one here for the "get the eviction outfit ready" crowd.
 
 
petunia
11:50 / 22.06.07
Go away now Claris Dancer
wear a blindfold on the highwaaay
take your crap on race and women
It's eviction day todaaaay
 
 
Evil Scientist
13:17 / 22.06.07
Sorry can't add to this discussion, on way out of door to airport. CD's shown no willing to change since he was last active on the board, he contributes nothing of worth that I am aware of. Ban.
 
  

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