You saying Elton John isn't serious?
(I was going to try here for the whole "as decorum = 'Appropriate social behavior' and we are society, so define appropriate how we like" thing, but a definitions match with a Haus would be a foolish thing indeed.)
(and you, Flyboy, don't pretend your name isn't too close to 'rocketman' for comfort...)
But anyway. If a serious .t you would like...
Ban.
It is a little bit sad, because Claris said such nice things before about being sorry, taking time out to make sure his arguments hold water, being careful not to say the wrong thing in front of people, etc.
But then he went and did precisely the sort of thing we told him he'd need to stop - he tried to carry on with an offensive and painful argument that had little basis in reality. He did research, this time, but his research was woefully blinkered (comically so, really) and obviously informed by a desire to hold to a point, rather than see if the point has any validity.
As other people have said, i don't think Claris is a Bad Person. I'm sure he is quite nice, quite funny, loves his wife etc. But nice people can say horrid things.
In the past few years, people on Barbelith have become less and less willing to put up with the sort of thing Claris has been saying. They are tired of it. This could be seen as a negative thing, but don't think so. This place counts as 'safe' for a lot of people - it is one of a few places (on the internet or IRL) that they can expect not to be confronted with the kind of crap they have to put up with day-in day-out elsewhere. If, in defending that 'safety', we have to block out a few people, i think that is acceptable. This is not an IRL society - there is no need for a fully inclusive agenda.
I can understand the desire some people have to try to change a person's views; we all want to help. However, we are using a medium which makes such change very difficult. As we work in text, we must rely on the reader to:
a. be willing to read what we write.
b. be willing to 'drop their guard', 'loosen their reality tunnels' - they must want to let whatever they are reading have the opportunity to sink in and change what they think.
c. follow through on any change they find happening to their world view.
Basically, it's wholy up to the reader to read what has been said, absorb it, and process it. If a reader can't be bothered, then it's incredibly easy to change tabs on the browser, go watch a film or whatever.
Having tried at various times and in various places to argue with people who hold bigotted views on the internet, i have realised that it nearly never works. There is a certain effort required to hold false views, which means a person holding them must have some investment in doing so. If they feel the need (caused by pride, fear, etc) to invest in these views, it is unlikely they will change them because of a piece of text on what is one of the most fly-away media.
This isn't to say that it never happens but, as has been said, we aren't paramedics. We have no duty to help people who do not want to change.
I'm not sure that Claris doesn't want to change, but i am sure that the current 'change' is so slight as to make me doubt that he can engage in this place without making people uncomfortable, angry, or just tired.
Maybe in a while, he might have realised something nice, changed in a good way and become a person who can engage in a way that is suitable for this place. That would be lovely, and he should feel free to reapply if this happens.
Basically, what i said in the song.
As for the shit or get off the pot comment; you may or may not be aware, Claris, that Tom is the only person on the board who can actually enact a ban. As he doesn't frequent this place very often, it sometimes takes a while for a ban to take place. Think of it as us waiting for the laxatives to take effect. Sorry if this prolonged wait is causing any distress. |
