BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


Harry Potter And the Deathly Hallows - Speculation and SPOILERS Thread

 
  

Page: 12(3)45

 
 
Mono
17:56 / 23.07.07
Dobby's death was the saddest, for sure. But I kept picturing him as icky-Dobby-Doctor from the Who finale this year.

And I have too much Snape-love not to have gobbled up his entirely predictable plot stuff.
 
 
Feverfew
18:04 / 23.07.07
It wasn't bad, overall, but I'm really not sold on the coda, and the amount of death (why does everyone get proper mourning other than Hedwig? "Rowling in Owl Hate shocker"?) was just getting odd by the end of it. I mean, I get the whole "The battle of Hogwarts really is dangerous, people do really die, it's not just people poncing around playing with their wands" ethic, but the off-screen deaths mentioned already just... bother me.

It is going to be fairly nightmarish to render unto celluloid, also. I can see much snippage in the future, especially all the time spent travelling around Britain.

I enjoyed it, and was annoyed, in fairly equal measure, but afterwards, the ending and the coda had left me feeling rather flat, somehow.
 
 
EvskiG
20:39 / 23.07.07
Loved it, but agree with FeverFew about the truly excessive killing.

(Especially Hedwig, Fred, and poor Colin Creevy.)

Talk about overkill. Literally.
 
 
Mark Parsons
21:11 / 23.07.07
Loved it from start to finish.

Very bummed that Snape died, but that was a given, and he got his flashback scene and redemption. Most fascinating characer, IMO, with Dumbledore coming in second.

RE coda, don't forget that we jaded big folks are not the target audience. younger fans will LOVE the coda, IMO.

Fred's death was the most shocking, Remus and Tonks also but as they happen off camera, less so. Collin's death seemed excessive: let's have one more on the ground. But still, wars kill people, etc.

What about dangling threads? i read elsewhere that JKR seemed to be hinting that Dudley had secrets (or rather Petunia). I do not recall this from HBP (6) but does anybody else?

I would love to see a book about the Founding Four Wizards, and a Snape centric book too. Wonder if she's ever go back? I'd assume that Harry has run his course, but the world she made is so fascinating, it's a shame to leave it fallow forever.
 
 
Mark Parsons
21:14 / 23.07.07
I would say that the coda could have been a bit longer, perhaps with Harry reminiscing the night b4 his kids (unseen) go off to Hogwarts. Still, i guess he's rewarded with family, which was one of the strengths of the series. Always loved the Weasley Family.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
21:33 / 23.07.07
Ultimately everyone becomes a Weasley. Thrilling. They are the wizard world's super-infection, consuming all oppostion...

I could very easily see JKR producing a sequel predicated on the promise about Gryffindor's sword being returned to the goblins, perhaps going unfulfilled.

I also liked the idea of Dumbledore's Army as being removed from the conrol of the big three, with Neville/Luna/Ginny forming a second triad.
 
 
Mark Parsons
23:40 / 23.07.07
I also liked the idea of Dumbledore's Army as being removed from the conrol of the big three, with Neville/Luna/Ginny forming a second triad.

Yes, then Longbottom could become a Che Guevera-style revolutionary and Potter would come back to uproot the viva revolution gone awary, all in the name of tradition and so forth. Peeves could do the Castro role.
 
 
wicker woman
03:04 / 24.07.07
I keep trying to picture Harry, Ron, et al. in their mid-30's, and I keep coming up short. The movies have pretty much ruined me for picturing the main three, at least, as anyone other than Radcliffe, Grint, and Watson... can't really picture Danny boy with any more hair than what he's showing off in Eqqus

Overall, I absolutely loved the book. Creevey's death was a bit overdone, to be sure, but the others seemed to fit. Fred's death was a shame, even though I'd seen at least one of them dying coming a mile away. Pissed about Lupin and Tonks, to be honest. "Let's rush off and help, consequences be damned!" I think their deaths were done off-camera in order to give that feel that not everyone, including the heroes, always gets a dramatic or heroic death.

Loved the absolutely mundane feel of Voldemort's death. All the buildup, all the menace throughout 7 books, and it comes down to 10 minutes of circling one another and a backfired spell. ^_^
 
 
Tryphena Absent
07:51 / 24.07.07
Well Voldemort was ultimately a moron so the nature of his death wasn't exactly surprising. I think the same can be said for Tonks and Lupin, particularly Lupin who lost some neural pathways after Order of the Phoenix.
 
 
Katherine
12:48 / 24.07.07
Why do they both have to fight and risk their lives, when they just had a child? Just seems to be very irresponsible and careless.

I think this would have been because they were heavily involved with The Order and by this time they wanted to fight for the right for their child to grow up in a world where Voldie & Co didn’t rule. Remember in the book could certain members of Tonks family were not too pleased that she married a werewolf even though Voldie had some in his ranks. To be honest I can’t remember the bit where Tonk’s parents died though, who was looking after the child then? I thought the grandparents were doing that whilst Lupin and Tonks went off to fight?

Rowling has said that this would be the last Harry Potter book but that does leave it open for other Hogwarts books and stories of the other main characters. I don’t think she will left the world too much alone as she is slightly overprotective of the whole thing.
 
 
Dark side of the Moonfrog1
13:49 / 24.07.07
Just realised something... If Harry was born in 1981, this latest book is actually set in 1998 - nearly ten years ago. Interesting...
 
 
Tryphena Absent
14:12 / 24.07.07
Tonk's dad is killed by Death Eaters when he's running but her mum is looking after the child.
 
 
Dark side of the Moonfrog1
15:29 / 24.07.07
Really??? Ah, that puts my mind at rest knowing that little Teddy Lupin was raised safe and sound by Granny Tonks.
 
 
Elijah, Freelance Rabbi
19:05 / 24.07.07
What I found most interesting about the entire series is how killing Lily doomed Voldemort from the start. That's what protected Harry, and also what turned Snape.

I liked the last bit where Harry tried to turn the whole thing into a rescue mission, but Voldemort refuse to be rescued. Off to whimper in the train station for you then.
 
 
Quantum
23:16 / 24.07.07
this latest book is actually set in 1998

Yeah, that made me laugh. While all this is going on, Cher is number one with Believe for seven weeks, and the touching Christmas scene where they found the Potters grave is set when Chocolate Salty Balls was about to hit the top spot in the UK charts.
 
 
Liger Null
02:17 / 25.07.07
I actually didn't mind the coda so much. It was a predictable but effective end to the storyline; those characters deserve a little mundane happiness after all the horrible crap they had to go through.

What was the deal with the little flayed baby-thing at King's Cross? Dumbledore was all, "Don't mind the whimpering baby-thing, you can't save it." And Harry obediently ignored it without further demand for explanation. Did I miss something? What was that thing?
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
02:29 / 25.07.07
I think it was the bit of Voldemort's soul that was in Harry, which Voldemort had just killed.
 
 
Liger Null
02:55 / 25.07.07
Thanks, I figured that was the case, but it just wasn't spelled out to my satisfaction.
 
 
Mistoffelees
07:32 / 25.07.07
his latest book is actually set in 1998

Actually, it´s 1997. At the graveyard, the headstone says his parents died "31 October 1981". He was at least one year old at the time, so he was born 31 July 1980.

They´d had "Candle in the Wind" pouring out the windows at Godric´s Hollow, and Puff Daddy´s "I'll Be Missing You" in the summer, the poor sods.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
16:29 / 25.07.07
So, because I only read 'Half-Blood Prince' once and don't remember the details too clearly, does J.K. ever explain exactly WHY Snape is the Half-Blood Prince and what that means?

Despite the fact that things obviously happen in the first half of the book I thought things didn't really properly start until about halfway in, and could have done without the whole 'stages in the quest' thing and Harronone arguing amongst themselves and breaking up and then coming back together again , I don't know why Harry didn't settle each argument with "Well, I've turned out to be right every time in the last seven years." If they are going to waste pages arguing about whether the Hallows exist I'd rather they didn't do it in a book called The Deathly Hallows thanks.

Once Harronone arrived in Hogsmeade and the story shifted from quest to action was when I thought J.K.'s writing was at it's strongest and it's odd that she's spent the majority of her time over the last ten years not writing to her strengths. I did like Snape's story and his hatred of Harry for what he saw as his father's arrogance (although all the people who dislike Harry say he's arrogant, it might have actually helped if J.K. had actually written him being arrogant occasionally, a more selfless hero it would be hard to find).

And of course Lupin was going to die, he didn't do anything other than show people a photo of his son. He was terribly shortchanged, though I think I'm basing that on film Lupin rather than book Lupin. Poor Thewlis.

So, a fairly good book. I just hope the kids that started reading books because of Harry Potter don't stop now and go on to other authors and discover better stuff.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
16:47 / 25.07.07
So, because I only read 'Half-Blood Prince' once and don't remember the details too clearly, does J.K. ever explain exactly WHY Snape is the Half-Blood Prince and what that means?

Silly title he gave himself because he was 1) Half-blood and 2) The pureblood side (his mother) was named Prince. Basically it was an adolescent way of giving himself importance.
 
 
Feverfew
17:21 / 25.07.07
And of course Lupin was going to die, he didn't do anything other than show people a photo of his son.

Oh god, you're right. That's the equivalent of turning up in a war film and saying "What ho, chaps! This is my last sortie before I retire and move home to run a pub with my best girl, Maisie!"

(Shamelessly glommed from an old Punt and Dennis sketch, but it's true... Just like the one who says "Alright lad, before this I used to play centre forward for Bolton!" - legs blown off.)
 
 
Mistoffelees
17:38 / 25.07.07
offtopic

though I think I'm basing that on film Lupin rather than book Lupin. Poor Thewlis.

What´s the matter with his roles anyway? I´ve seen him die in most of his movies expect The Big Lebowski. He might aspire to form a club with Samuel Jackson and Steve Buscemi.

/offtopic
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
19:44 / 25.07.07
I just hope we don't find out that Teddy has a lightening scar on his arse and that Lucius Malfoy is missing presumed dead...
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
14:47 / 26.07.07
Can someone tell me how Draco Malfoy ended up?
 
 
Mistoffelees
15:07 / 26.07.07
When the Evil One was killed, almost everyone partied in the great hall, except for Draco and his parents who sat there, ignored by their former enemies. 19 years later, he brings his Son Scorpius (?) to that famous red steamtrain and is apparently on peaceful terms with Potter and his ilk.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
16:58 / 26.07.07
So no redemption?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
18:26 / 26.07.07
The Malfoys actually do have a sort-of-maybe redemption.
 
 
Foust is SO authentic
21:06 / 26.07.07
Umm... could I have some details?
 
 
Mistoffelees
21:18 / 26.07.07
No, what I´ve written is pretty much it. At the train station, Parent Harry and Parent Draco give a nod to one another from afar, and that´s it.

I believe, the "good guys" acknowledged that the Malfoy family had finally understood, that LV was only interested in himself and that they just went along out of fear. But since they didn´t change sides even at the last moment, there could have been no redemption.
 
 
Shiny: Well Over Thirty
04:21 / 27.07.07
I think Papers has nailed it. Within the world of Harry Potter I think the Malfoy's realization that they care about their family far more than they care about conquering the world or wiping out the mudbloods and going neutral is supposed to be at least semi-redemptive.
 
 
Katherine
07:06 / 27.07.07
To be fair Draco's mother was asked to check Harry's body to see if he was dead. She didn't give the game away he was alive which she could have done after asking if her son was alive so I think she at least had a passive rebellion part.

Also it is apparent in parts of the books that Draco's family (apart from Bellatrix) were really regretting being part of Lord Vol's plans and games. Unfortunately remembering the way that no-one who left the Death Eaters survive, I think it was more a case of they couldn't get out of it and so going though the motions to stay alive.
 
 
Morgana
12:39 / 27.07.07
Within the world of Harry Potter I think the Malfoy's realization that they care about their family far more than they care about conquering the world or wiping out the mudbloods and going neutral is supposed to be at least semi-redemptive.

Ah yes, and exactly that's what is getting on my nerves about the coda, or as someone put it before: Everyone's become Weasley, at the end. Of course, realising they really love their familiy is a big step for the Malfoys, but is having a familiy generally the greatest step for all mankind? It certainly is for Harry, as he's never had the chance to live with his parents, but what about the rest of the wizarding world? I didn't think that Ron and Hermione were of the family-kind, e.g. - wouldn't it have been more fitting if they travelled around the world for intellectual and other adventures?

The other thing that's annoying me is about the Hallows: So having them all means to be master of death. So Harry had them all, or at least two of them, when he set off to let himself be murdered - as we didn't know the bit about the Elder Wand's true master, then (at least I hadn't worked it out). Of course I reckoned that by reunion of all three items, Harry would indeed be able to conquer death - and we could have been spared that strange stuff with his mother's protection living on in Voldemort, about which I somehow missed the point. I mean, why intdroducing all that Deathly Hallow-stuff, when at the end they are not really important for the final battle?

I liked the fact that the old Snape-Lily-theory proved true, though, and especially that "look into my eyes"-dying-scene, which nearly seemed like an reminiscence to some weird Harry-Snape-slash - though perhaps unintentionally...

The Harry-is-a-Horcrux-story was quite obvious to me since the last book, though I would have thought, that when his attack on Harry went wrong and Voldemort felt himself disembodied, he had no time to direct his soulpart into the intended object and put it into Harry, instead. That would have explained his idea that he had to kill him himself - to redirect his precious soulpart into some other vessel. Seems unlikely that he didn't feel his soul being ripped in two for a seventh time - also six horcruxes seemed to be more than dangerous, so how could he afford losing another bit of his soul at all?

The part I don't really get is what exactly is, in Potterverse, happening to the deads. Are they supposed to live on forever in some kind of otherworld, similair to the ghosts, but not on this side of the veil, anymore? What about that veil, Sirius fell through, anyway? Is ist just a metaphor for the connection we have to the loved ones who passed away? When Harry used the stone, he was the only one who could see the people he called, because, as they said, they were part of him. So are they just memories, or are they still thinking for themselves? "Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?"

Time to get philosophical?
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
15:18 / 27.07.07
Ah yes, and exactly that's what is getting on my nerves about the coda, or as someone put it before: Everyone's become Weasley, at the end. Of course, realising they really love their familiy is a big step for the Malfoys, but is having a familiy generally the greatest step for all mankind? It certainly is for Harry, as he's never had the chance to live with his parents, but what about the rest of the wizarding world? I didn't think that Ron and Hermione were of the family-kind, e.g. - wouldn't it have been more fitting if they travelled around the world for intellectual and other adventures?

Well, part of the problem with the coda is that it's nineteen years later, nearly two decades we have very little clue to-- it's quite possible that the Harronione went off to have further wild adventures once Voldepants was dead, but we don't get to see it, so it just looks like they jumped right into making babies while the Weasley clan managed to absorb and consume all pure-blood and mud-blood lines except for that small enclave of the Malfoys. It tends to lead to a rather mixed message. Family isn't necessarily the most important thing to them, especially given Ron was always trying to make himself noticed rather than sinking into the sibling voids, but after nine years or so of adventures, they decided to have families. All at the same time. Ginny and Hermione even coordinated their birthing.

Hmm, this is why the coda just doesn't work for me. It brings me right out the narrative and enters into the fanfic realms. Can one write one's own fanfic?

I sort of imagine that with Voldepants dead-dead-dead, the trio went off to Australia for an Outback Magical Adventure, possibly dropping into the dreamtime for a bit, and sought out the Senior Grangers in order to restore their personalities and bring them home.
 
 
Keith, like a scientist
19:21 / 27.07.07
Hmm, this is why the coda just doesn't work for me. It brings me right out the narrative and enters into the fanfic realms.

That sums up my feelings about the coda, as well. It's just a bit too shippery for me... and that battle was so immense and tragic I need some sort of follow-up that shows me more tangibly the outcomes. Harry going to work at the Ministry as an Auror, dealing with something, then going home to his family, would have been a nice scenario that would show us his family, his peaceful life, and give us a glimpse at the world post-Voldemort.

And can I say again... the kid's names... oh my...
 
  

Page: 12(3)45

 
  
Add Your Reply