Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.

Underground > Books, Criticism & Writing >

Harry Potter And the Deathly Hallows - Speculation and SPOILERS Thread

Page: 1(2)3 4 5

08:08 / 04.07.07

Are you sure it was Amazon and not a phisher?

Whoah, good idea! I hadn´t thought of that and have checked that email again; and the links all lead to the real amazon pages, so I dodged the phishing bullet this time.

Tryphena Absent

15:08 / 04.07.07

It's £8.99 pre-order from all the big online shops so I think just get it from wherever.

20:52 / 04.07.07

Oh God, no, it was a joke.
Damn text based medium.
Apologies for confusion.

13:00 / 16.07.07

Voldemort will be killed by Petunia Dursley.

With a 1997 Lincoln Continental.

When he's dead, Harry will lose his powers.

And go back to live with the Dursleys.

LIKE A GOOD BOY.

13:56 / 16.07.07

You laugh; but Petunia is a big plot thread left to be resolved.

Actually, I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone other than Harry ends up killing Voldemort—most likely candidate is Snape—in violation of then first rule of dramatic writing: Thou shalt not take the climax away from thy protagonist.

15:14 / 16.07.07

I'm not entirely joking there - it just occurred to me that that'd be a great, Rowling-esque climax.

The Dursleys save the day after all....

Our Lady Has Left the Building

16:44 / 16.07.07

Doesn't the power of the Dursleys to safeguard Harry wear off at the end of the summer holiday or something? Which might suggest they all die horribly...

16:53 / 16.07.07

Am e only person who thinks it's terribly obvious that Harry is one of Voldemort's horcruxes?

22:27 / 16.07.07

No.

10:28 / 17.07.07

A friend told me that Scholastic (HP U.S. publisher) has set up a hotline for kids to call becasue they fear that the end of book 7 will traumatize loads of 'em. But Google didn't confirm anything...

Tryphena Absent

11:06 / 17.07.07

My favourite Potter fanfiction often involves Harry pulling a gun out of his pants and shooting Moldy between the eyes (because we all know he has good hand-eye coordination). I think I'd be happy if Petunia did that instead.

Elijah, Freelance Rabbi

18:44 / 17.07.07

My favourite Potter fanfiction often involves Harry pulling a gun out of his pants and shooting Moldy between the eyes (because we all know he has good hand-eye coordination). I think I'd be happy if Petunia did that instead.

See: Wizards (Bakshi)

semioticrobotic

19:40 / 17.07.07

Okay, just read that scans of the book have been released on BitTorrent.

Now, this type of "news" is something I typically breeze past. However, I lingered this time and was met with a wealth of information that certainly makes this rumor seem legitimate. Namely, the post regarding the leak directs skeptics to a spoilers page. The spoiler page contains scans of many book sections, including the last page. It also contains chapter breakdowns and bulleted high-priority spoiler lists. I have no way of verifying the veracity of these spoilers; however, I am inclined to accept them based on the multiple modes of evidence presented.

==
I AM GOING TO LINK TO THIS PAGE. PLEASE NOTE THAT IT CONTAINS INFORMATION THAT, IF TRUE, COULD SPOIL THE NOVEL'S MOST POWERFUL SECRETS.

LINK
==

20:11 / 17.07.07

WITH A LINCOLN!

O, sweet victory, you are mine!

semioticrobotic

20:36 / 17.07.07

Aaaaand the link to spoilers is already broken. Wonderful. Gobs of traffic from Drudge and the like, no doubt.

ONLY NICE THINGS

07:17 / 18.07.07

PLEASE NOTE THAT IT CONTAINS INFORMATION THAT, IF TRUE, COULD SPOIL THE NOVEL'S MOST POWERFUL SECRETS.

How to become richer than God writing Diana Wynne Jones fanfiction? Sweet!

semioticrobotic

11:23 / 18.07.07

Er, yea. I think I may have, in my zeal, hyperbolized quite a bit yesterday. Suffice it to say that current Web discourse regarding the scans consists of a continued debate about their authenticity (did someone write a fan fic and take the time to Photoshop it onto pics of the novel?). Nevertheless, I continue to believe they are the real deal.

16:38 / 18.07.07

Apparently the scanner made a mistake by leaving the camera's serial number in some photo ID tags.

08:41 / 19.07.07

Am e only person who thinks it's terribly obvious that Harry is one of Voldemort's horcruxes?

No, that does seem to be a pretty popular notion. I think it's pretty obvious that he's not, though.

In the Half-Blood Prince, Professor Slughorn (when Harry and Dumbledore are examining his memories) describes the creation of a horcrux to Voldemort as a "difficult and trying spell... one of the most trying spells". With that in mind, it's obvious that Voldemort didn't make Harry a horcrux on accident.

But his doing it on purpose doesn't make any sense either. If that's the case, why has he tried to kill Harry on more than one occasion?

It also doesn't fit with the character of Voldemort at all, and I'll be terribly disappointed if JKR takes this route. Again, in HBP, Dumbledore states that Voldemort would likely only entrust his soul to objects of 'special significance'. Why then would he store a piece in the child of a mudblood and a blood traitor? Especially one apparently destined to kill him? Dumbledore also mentions that Voldemort would be unlikely to store his soul in any human being, who could act and think for themselves.

It also doesn't mesh with the portion of the prophecy that Voldemort heard, which is why he went after Harry in the first place.

15:10 / 19.07.07

With that in mind, it's obvious that Voldemort didn't make Harry a horcrux on accident.

I don't think it's quite that obvious. Voldemort is believed to have favored personally significant victims as the necessary "sacrifice" in the horcrux ritual, and Harry (because of the prophecy) is the perfect choice for the final splitting of Voldemort's soul.

If the killing curse was performed at the climax of the horcrux ritual, then Lily's unexpected self-sacrifice could (conceivably) have misdirected the horcrux spell onto Harry instead of the intended object. Given the demonstrated, and previously unexplained, link between Harry and Voldemort, and also the mystery about what actually happened that night (and the "missing" 24 hours that followed), it's not that implausible. The "accidental horcrux" theory doesn't violate any "hard" continuity (that I can think of), and contradicts only educated guesses made by characters who were not present, and were unaware of the horcruxes in the first place.

22:47 / 21.07.07

Is it spoiler time now? I surely can't be the only person that's finished it yet.

Janean Patience

23:15 / 21.07.07

I flicked through to the end in Sainsbury's. Surprised. I really thought she'd...

...is it spoiler time, or what?

Keith, like a scientist

07:07 / 22.07.07

Whoo, that was a quick read. I thought I was crazy for sitting on the couch all day reading it, but I usually do that with any book I'm enjoying, reading for hours. When it turns into 8 hours or so... that's not horrible, is it?

I'm of the mind that since it's release day (past release day now) that full fledged posts discussing the contents is perfectly allowable.

I'll start with one: Oh noes! Not Mad-Eye!

07:51 / 22.07.07

So what happens in the end, then?

I've tried to reach out for a copy at my local Tesco, but the hand seems to keep on finding a slab of lager, instead.

Won't somebody put me out of my misery?

By PM, if necessary.

Ta.

09:10 / 22.07.07

I think we can spoil a bit now.

SPOILERS

Didn't like the cheesy coda (JKR at her most twee), was disappointed that the promised major casualties turned out to be expendable (though not surprised - she always does this), thought the explanation of the outcome of the Harry-Voldemort link was improbable* - otherwise, better than expected. Even though outcome of Snape storyline predictably dull and soppy.

* I mean - shouldn't winning the Elder Wand from its previous master entail actually winning that particular wand, and not a different one?

Dark side of the Moonfrog1

09:44 / 22.07.07

GREAT BIG HIPPOGRIFF SIZED SPOILERS!

...
...
...

...
...
...
Just finished it this morning. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Ended more or less as expected with all the relevant people paired up, sacrificed, revealed as goodies all along. Quite a disturbing amount of deaths along the way, which were more or less handled well. Dobby’s demise I found to be the most moving. Though I’m a little bit annoyed that Lupin and Tonk’s final moments were ‘off camera’, so to speak.

(Now it’s probably only because I share his name, but my biggest concern at the end of the book was what happened to Teddy Lupin in the ensuing 19 years. If I remember correctly, both Tonk’s parents were killed and there’s never been any mention of Lupin’s so what happened to him… Did 17-year-old Harry look after him? Or maybe the Weasleys? Poor Teddy *sob*.)

I know what you mean, Kit-Kat, about the whole master of the wand business. That and the ‘Mother’s protection in Voldemort too’ was still a wee bit fuzzy on the details. Surely if Harry was the master of the Elder wand, when Voldie used the killing curse on Harry in the Forbidden Forest, it shouldn’t have worked, regardless of the ‘Mummy loves you’ spell?

Also, how did the Sword get back in the Sorting Hat after the Goblins took it at Gringotts? Was it *ahem* magic?

11:53 / 22.07.07

Really, the one death that truly bugged me was Fred Weasley's. Not only was it tragically underdone, but I feel like killing one twin and not the other is something simply not done. It's like killing the dog. Plus, I loved the Weasley twins, they had some of the more entertaining bits in the series.

Also, I'm no shipper, but I can't be the only one that wanted Harry to expel Voldemort's soul with the help of Ginny and some tantric sex magic. No?

Okay, I will write more later when I have been up for more than five minutes.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

15:47 / 22.07.07

Hmmmm - that's the one death I totally predicted. I figured if Rowling was going for a bodycount one would survive and the other die anyway. The one death that really affected me however was Hedwig. Most of the human and other humanoid deaths were at least meaningful and heroic, as they got to die accomplishing something, even if off page. Hedwig's death was just a sad, pointless little death really.

Keith, like a scientist

16:34 / 22.07.07

In some ways, I'm kind of disappointed most of my predictions came true in some way. The big three surviving, Snape being good, R.A.B., the locket, etc. It didn't seem like Rowling's style to kill Harry or his closest friends.

Fred's death shocked me, but, yes, Dobby's was the most effecting, I think. His calm act of heroism cinched it, there. Remus and Tonks... Surprisingly cold for JKR. New parents, a small amount of screen time, deaths off camera, are they suppose to be analogues for James and Lily, with Teddy being the perennial orphan finding his home at Hogwarts? I completely expected Hagrid to bite it, though, and she faked us out with it twice. Dude is tough!

The Grindelwald stuff was very interesting.

The coda was insanely twee and probably the worst moment in all the books. I have no problem with showing them 19 years later, no problem with Ron and Hermione or Harry and Ginny, but the kid's names.... oh my god kill me now please. Ron's "It's me. I'm very famous." got a chuckle, though. On the whole, I think I would have preferred something a little closer in time frame for a flash forward. Someone's wedding or something... Could have used a bit more comedown from the battle.

As for Harry and Voldemort, there was definitely a bit too much "Ah Ha! But you didn't know about this, Harry!" and then the subsequent "Ah Ha! But you didn't know about this, Voldemort!" It seemed obvious that there was a bit of Voldemort in Harry, so I didn't mind that part of it, but the long expository stuff with Snape and Dumbledore was a bit much, especially with the Snape so being so obvious thematically. And all the Hallows stuff... while interesting, was... out of leftfield, wasn't it? If they had been mentioned in the series somewhere before, even in a tiny way, it wouldn't have seemed like such a macguffin.

All these complaints aside, I actually did enjoy it quite a bit, and fully intend to read it again straight away, more leisurely. It was appropriately epic, tragic but uplifting, and did a fair amount of justice to everyone.

Tryphena Absent

22:25 / 22.07.07

Yeah spoilers whtevr...

I enjoyed it except for... yes that's right the last bit. Hey look, all these people married people they went to school with etc. GROSS OUT.

I was glad that JK didn't make Harry nasty, she was nice to him, it was good. I'm glad she killed Tonks and Remus, their love annoyed me so very, very much in the last book. She needed to kill her mistake.

12:09 / 23.07.07

I can't believe JKR felt the need to introduce another set of macguffins for the last book, what the hell for? Weren't the horcruxes enough of a waste of time? Blimey.
I did enjoy it though, she touched on all the old locations, no Quidditch, tied up most loose ends etc. and there was some good action, some funny bits (remember the poisonous duck?) and most characters got their time in the spotlight.

Tryphena Absent

15:13 / 23.07.07

I enjoyed the Neville Longbottom creates havoc and so does his gran bit.

Hallo, Paper Spaceboy

15:40 / 23.07.07

The Longbottoms really and truly did rock.

Hermione really needs to ditch the two prats and strike out on her own.

I like that they just gave up and started apparating everywhere.

That said, the pacing was still pretty bad and I could have done without the latest iterations of "[Harry/Ron/Hermione] is in a snit about [Ron/Hermione/Harry]."

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

16:11 / 23.07.07

With regards to Lupin, I sort of feel odd about how I didn't mind him dying in the slightest. I think if he'd died in books 3-5 I'd have been dreadfully upset. But at this point it's been so long since he's really done anything to make me appreciate him, and indeed could have been regarded as a bit of a wanker in his brief appearance in this book, that as a result I found I just didn't care at all that he died.

17:02 / 23.07.07

That Lupin/Tonks death felt forced and unnecessary and reminded me of similar stuff that George Lucas did, when he repeated lots of "themes" from the OT in the new trilogy (for example, Luke lost an extremity, so Anakin had to lose one as well) for no apparent reason.

In the first book, there´s a baby that loses both his parents in that fateful night, when Voldemort finally is defeated and loses his body. So let´s have something like that for no good reason in the last book as well for the sake of symmetry or whatever. Why do they both have to fight and risk their lives, when they just had a child? Just seems to be very irresponsible and careless.

And the only elf ever to get his freedom has to die? That was pretty much the only death, that made me sad. Potter screws up by saying "Voldemort" even though his best friend explained to him, that this is the reason they got attacked in London in the first place, and Dobby has to pay for this stupid mistake.

Also, with Remus, Pettigrew and Snape dead, all the characters, that were so important in the third novel (HP´s parents plus their best friends) are gone. It just seems so unnecessary for the story to have all these deaths. Did Rowling get nervous after all the fuss with Sirius´ and Dumbledore´s demises that she thought "Why, we can´t have enough of a good thing?"?

But overall, I liked it. Except for the months of camping, it was quite the page turner. I didn´t get the impression that JKR held back for the sake of the movie adaption. Some screenwriters will have sleepless nights, how all those key scenes can be put to screen when the main characters don´t look like the actors (Graveyard, Gringott´s, Ministry, wedding, for example). Now I´m looking forward to Susanna Clarke´s sequel to Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell!

Page: 1(2)3 4 5