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Underground > Film, TV & Theatre >

The Dark Knight - speculation and news

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22:48 / 22.01.08

Is the shooting of The Dark Knight over? Because, if it's not, this is totally gonna mess the film. And what about a third part? No Joker in it? (not that it is more important than the poor guy being dead, of couse)

Just so people see what's being said, here, on Barbelith.

22:53 / 22.01.08

shitfuckbollocks!

23:19 / 22.01.08

Why so serious?

23:22 / 22.01.08

wasnt there some discussion at some point about how his joker makeup was reminiscent of the crow?

wikipedia says batman is finished, but the new terry gilliam novie is not.

23:22 / 22.01.08

the movie will probably be seen on a much different light now... so strange.

tsc, just saw a pic of the plastic bag being taken out of the building at... the gothamist. =\

23:23 / 22.01.08

Yeah, all those "Why so serious" viral marketing ads just got a whole new meaning, didn't they?

A pretty dark one, to boot.

The Joker himself would find this whole horrible situation excruciatingly funny.

23:28 / 22.01.08

corecase, Mark Dacascos is still alive - last time I checked was at... The Asylum.

this is getting too bizarrely synchronized.

Shiny: Well Over Thirty

04:55 / 23.01.08

Shit. What an awful thing. In the face of this I don't care so much how it effects the movie; but I do kinda care how the movie effects the poor guy's legacy. I mean I imagine his performance was fantastic, but what a horrible thing to leave behind as one's last work.....

miss wonderstarr

06:40 / 23.01.08

It's kind of interesting the way message boards are discussing this: to paraphrase the key responses I've seen on maybe five sites

1. It's a great loss because I saw him in [movie] and his performance was amazing, and it seems particularly poignant now.

2. It's particularly sad because he had a young daughter (and this is used to trump other responses, ie. "how can you be arguing the toss about his acting/the cause of his death when a young girl has lost her father")

3. He died at the same age as Brandon Lee, wearing similar make-up... teh spooky.

4. I feel no sympathy for anyone who dies from recreational drug use
4.a) particularly when they're wealthy and other people in a lower social bracket are surviving and struggling on
4. b) particularly when you look at thousands of non-famous, unnamed people dying on the same front page

5. It's valid to feel sympathy because his death looks like an accident. And anyway, #2.

6. It's a great loss because he was so fit.

07:44 / 23.01.08

I suppose a lot of those are people trying to rationalise why they're feeling a reaction to the death of someone they've never met, especially given the reports of wartime deaths on a near-daily basis. It shouldn't be so surprising, though. If someone who works in the arts succeeds in even the most minute way they're going to make some connection with their audience and in that situation 'someone you've never met' doesn't really cover it. It's someone who's work you've engaged with on an emotional level. Plus, there's still room to observe for the million billionth time that it's easier to comprehend one death with a recognisable face than it is to digest the demise of thousands of people when you don't even know their names.

I have to admit the first thing I thought was "B-but what about The Dark Knight?" and felt a lot more comfortable when I learned that his work on the role was complete/nearly complete. Even so, it is sad that he died so young and with so little of his potential realised.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

07:58 / 23.01.08

Don't worry Dead Megatron, they're getting Michael Gambon in to replace Ledger for the second half of the movie.

09:10 / 23.01.08

Are we making jokes on the subject already?

ONLY NICE THINGS

09:26 / 23.01.08

It's certainly rare and impressive for somebody to come up with a response to a post by Dead Megatron that is more inappropriate, and "wouldn't the Joker find this funny?" was setting the bar high to start with.

So, well done Our Lady.

10:54 / 23.01.08

Nice taxonomy of responses, Wonderstarr—well-spotted. And Thorn’s got a point—the old “One death is a tragedy, a thousand is a statistic” thing.

I seem to recall there being an old thread somewhere about celebrity deaths, and which ones affected you, and why—might be worth resurrecting in light of this.

Anyway, all said: My wife’s response was just about perfect, I think. She just kind of sighed, then growled, “People really should just be more careful.”

11:24 / 23.01.08

The "Joker would find this funny" means it's just that awful. In no way I was trying to be humorous about the subject.

And you would do well to mind your own business, Haus. "Please".

ONLY NICE THINGS

11:36 / 23.01.08

In no way I was trying to be humorous about the subject.

Never said you were - I said inappropriate. Read more closely.

However, Dead Bobby Fisher. I agree, Dead Bobby Fisher, that it is a terrible thing to make cheap comedy capital from the death of somebody in the public eye, Dead Bobby Fisher. Forgive me for questioning, Dead Bobby Fisher, the appropriateness of your response.

Could we maybe just close this thread until the film opens? It's only going to get worse otherwise.

11:43 / 23.01.08

I forgive you for being oh so much more savvy than the rest of us on what is appropriate or not, Haus.

"Dead Bobby Fisher" was also meant to be a homage. Which I already have said elsewhere.

As for closing this thread, my vote is no freaking way!

11:44 / 23.01.08

DM: My objection to the Joker finding it funny are that for him to be laughing the person attributing it to him also needs to have seen it in that light, as the Joker doesn't actually exist in a manner whereby he can have reactions that are independent of the people who ascribe them to him. I think it's also a common theme to load an artist, musician or actor's final works with special significance due to proximity to the death, and so it's worth remembering that it was Heath Ledger's job to convince us (the audience) that he takes a character seriously, not necessarily for him to become so involved with that character that he takes it seriously himself (with all the implied tragic consequences). He may have just seen it as playing a good scary villain. There is no real irony here that isn't just a product of proximity in time in certain fans' minds, certainly not enough to imply that The Joker Has the Last Laugh (we're going to get enough of that when the movie is reviewed).

That's why people might object to that comment. I could also have done without reading it, as it seems to trivialise the sad death of an incredibly gifted man into unexamined squeeing fandom. Note that I wouldn't necessarily dismiss a considered fan response as inappropriate, I just don't think you've hit the nail in that respect.

11:57 / 23.01.08

Granted, it was a fanboy approximation prompted by the eerie coincidence, but not a trivialization of the matter. I happen to consider the Joker an iconic character spawned from pop culture that embodies pure, unabridged, unapologetic, terror that creeps the fuck out of me, not a clown that laughs at death (I do not find him - or it - funny at all). By mentioning that this horrible situation would fit his sense of humor perfectly, I'm actually expressing how much Heath's death seems horrible to me, not how little.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:05 / 23.01.08

I could also have done without reading it, as it seems to trivialise the sad death of an incredibly gifted man into unexamined squeeing fandom.

Quite. I found the comment inappropriate because there is no eerie coincidence (on preview) - a man who works as an actor died, not of a Smilex overdose or by falling into a vat of acid - and to claim that there is reduces Heath Ledger to a sidenote on the fan's fixation on the character, rather than focussing on the death of a young and talented actor.

As it is, I think I do have a better understanding specifically than you of what is appropriate, Dead Bobby Fisher, which is possibly why, among other things, if I were to change my name in tribute to a mentally disturbed anti-semite I would probably take the time to spell that name right. This does not make me "more savvy" than "the rest of us", unless the "us" there is "people with very little understanding of what is appropriate".

However, this will not get us anywhere.

12:16 / 23.01.08

As it is, I think I do have a better understanding specifically than you of what is appropriate

Sure you do. Don't you always?

if I were to change my name in tribute to a mentally disturbed anti-semite I would probably take the time to spell that name right

As for the anti-semite thing, I admit I had no previous knowledge and shall research into it. As for the misspelling, I blame it on the news site in which I first heard of his death, which misspelled it first.

However, this will not get us anywhere.

Easy for you to say, now that you brought us to where we are now.

And I think I'm just about done on this argument too

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:40 / 23.01.08

Sure you do. Don't you always?

Don't I always think that I have a better idea of what constitutes appropriate behaviour than you? Obviously, yes, that's what I just said. In this case, Seth made some good points supporting the idea that I am right to think so. Again, please do read what has been written before responding.

12:53 / 23.01.08

Seth did made some good points. You didn't. And stop using the it's-obvious-you-didn't-read-the-thread card everytime someone does not respond to what was said as you wanted them to. It's old.

12:55 / 23.01.08

"Quite. I found the comment inappropriate because there is no eerie coincidence (on preview) - a man who works as an actor died, not of a Smilex overdose or by falling into a vat of acid."

Well, I suppose one could say that a vat of chemicals fell into him.

ONLY NICE THINGS

12:55 / 23.01.08

And stop using the it's-obvious-you-didn't-read-the-thread card everytime someone does not respond to what was said as you wanted them to.

Not "it's obvious that you didn't read the thread", Dead Megatron. "It's obvious that you didn't read what I wrote". Which you just manifestly didn't again.

13:11 / 23.01.08

yeah, sure

14:27 / 23.01.08

This is not meant as gloating in any way whatsoever, nor it is meant to further any argument hereof, but this CNN articles implies there may actually be a connection between Heath's death and his role as the Joker, and I quote:

The role disturbed him, according to The Associated Press. He called The Joker a "psychopathic, mass-murdering, schizophrenic clown with zero empathy."

"Last week, I probably slept an average of two hours a night," Ledger told The New York Times. "I couldn't stop thinking. My body was exhausted, and my mind was still going."

He said prescription sleeping pills didn't help, according to AP.

"It was a very great challenge for Heath," director Christopher Nolan told AP. "He's extremely original, extremely frightening, tremendously edgy. A very young character, a very anarchic presence that taps into a lot of our basic fears and panic."

14:39 / 23.01.08

This is not meant as gloating in any way whatsoever, nor it is meant to further any argument hereof, but...

Then why post it? And why emphasize "implies"? Fucking let it go, DM.

16:02 / 23.01.08

Okay, I'm putting this forwards for a lock, if only a temp one, as per the discussion in P&H. Anybody who wants to argue that decision out can do it in the thread there, not here.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:06 / 23.01.08

As I said in Policy:

Well, DM is now cobbling together bits of interviews promoting the film to construct a theory that the malign psychic force of the Joker murdered Heath Ledger by forcing him to take an overdose of sleeping pills.

DM probably should be ashamed of himself, but won't be.

This is far beyond expectations. At present, discussion in the Policy seems to incline towards locking this thread, at least for a while. I'm going to stick the request in and see what happens. If it does lock, I'd appreciate a brief hiatus before a new thread is started. Meanhwile, If anyone wants to start a thread appreciating Heath Ledger's work - as opposed to the role of the Joker in his death - then go to.

ONLY NICE THINGS

16:07 / 23.01.08

Ah. Doublepost.

11:09 / 24.01.08

blaming the death to his work in the movie is bad Journalism for more web hits or tube views. if he had a problem getting out of the character nobody else is to blame. if disturbed roles in crazy pics were that much of an issue the current Asian cinema would be out of business by now.

i think locking the thread is a bit too much, folks. Heath's death is a sad, unfortunate event [as a movie and comic geek i'm crushed] and the movie marketing campaign is likely to be changed to focus more on Batman [comics2film says], so we can get back to "insightful" discussion.

death is weird sometimes, and death in Pop culture can be even weirder.

17:33 / 24.01.08

I think locking is probably unnecessary, as long as we agree to stay away from the topic of Ledger's death at present - mostly all that's been said here are a lot of normal expressions of shock/sadness (and further posts to that effect are sort of redundant, though understandable if people want to express more of the same, so to speak), and some other stuff that wasn't perhaps as healthy, to put it delicately.

Let's just move on from here. There probably won't be much to discuss about the film anyone for a while, as far as new material or info. coming out about and such.

at least, that's my two cents.

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