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The Invisibles : a call to arms

 
  

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Quantum
17:37 / 13.09.06
No no, we're not hostile to ousiders at all.

We're much more hostile to *insiders* in my experience.
 
 
Henningjohnathan
17:39 / 13.09.06
Have you had dreams of a 'different' nature in which you end up in bustling places, talked to strangers you met later, or had dreams with friends you know, to find out they dreamt of you that very same night? Yeah, so have I, so have alot of people.

and if not, then what? Am I not one of the chosen? Am I not allowed to join the ranks?


Honestly, Mr. Microcosm, are you really saying that you haven't had dreams of a "different" nature in which you end up in bustling places, talked to strangers you met later, or had dreams with friends you know, to find out they dreamt of you that very same night?

Who hasn't had these dreams?
 
 
klint
17:39 / 13.09.06
"No, any outsider who suggests a completely fucing pointless project that consists wholly or entirely of sitting in one's bedroom daydreaming about being Jack Fucking Frost will be ridiculed. Sorry, but them's the breaks."

Who proposed that?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
17:45 / 13.09.06
It might be nice if we came up with storylines to be carried out in the Astral Realm, created projects that could be carried out on a group level.
 
 
Quantum
17:46 / 13.09.06
Actually it's not entirely clear what he is proposing;
We are coming up on the beginning of a Western Hindu Group Think, we call it Occultism, Dreamspace, The Hive, Global Zees, Astral Anarchy, ... The Invisibles.
The Invisibles. You already know what I am getting at. Our approach is different here, this is time for our version. We are endowed with superpowers, and I'm making an appeal to you to use them. I'm not asking anyone here to subscribe to any particular religion, but I am asking you to read this next line: There are superheroes in your midst and you may already be one of them.


He wants us to use our superpowers maybe?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
17:48 / 13.09.06
That was actually proposed in the name of all that's holy, klint. I'll check the minutes.

We're very sorry your friend didn't get the kind of uncritical reception for his Matrix Online fanfiction that he gets on LiveJournal, but that's because only his friends read his LiveJournal. I think some of the ragging here was a bit harsh but, let's face it, if we're using your current quality of exchange as a benchmark, would he have responded better to more gentle questioning? I doubt it. Some Discordians, funnily enough, seem to take themselves very seriously and have very little sense of humour.

Prove me wrong, klint. Engage with the criticisms, or get CrowleyKitten23 to - he hasn't been banned, after all. We don't generally moderate out petulance. An adult response might have shamed the harshest critics and won over the milder. Storming off? Whining about t3h mean Barbelith? less so.
 
 
Princess
17:49 / 13.09.06
"There are superheroes in your midst and you may already be one of them."

This is the line that really gets me. It's like he is channeling M People.
 
 
Quantum
17:50 / 13.09.06
Whining about t3h mean Barbelith?

Teh meen Limey Barbelith.
 
 
The Ghost of Tom Winter
17:56 / 13.09.06
Have you had dreams of a 'different' nature in which you end up in bustling places, talked to strangers you met later, or had dreams with friends you know, to find out they dreamt of you that very same night? Yeah, so have I, so have alot of people.

and if not, then what? Am I not one of the chosen? Am I not allowed to join the ranks?

Honestly, Mr. Microcosm, are you really saying that you haven't had dreams of a "different" nature in which you end up in bustling places, talked to strangers you met later, or had dreams with friends you know, to find out they dreamt of you that very same night?

Who hasn't had these dreams?


No, not at all. I’ve had countless strange dreams. I was just so ticked off at his approach to his ideas that I didn’t really think through my thoughts either.
The statement just felt as if he had an elitist air to it, and I was wondering about those unlucky few who just don’t have weird dreams for one reason or another.


If I was chaoflux I would have come back and vigorously defended my corner

I second that. In fact I actually got a chance to reply to his original LJ post and told him exactly that.

Any person worth his time and money would gladly back up his idea in the face of ridicule.
 
 
Unconditional Love
17:56 / 13.09.06
Banish yourselves with ecstatic laughter.
 
 
Quantum
18:04 / 13.09.06
Banish yourselves with ecstatic laughter

Banish ourselves? Where would we go?
 
 
Henningjohnathan
18:08 / 13.09.06
No, not at all. I’ve had countless strange dreams. I was just so ticked off at his approach to his ideas that I didn’t really think through my thoughts either.
The statement just felt as if he had an elitist air to it, and I was wondering about those unlucky few who just don’t have weird dreams for one reason or another.


I was just joking by the way, but I think you must have a superhero at heart considering your impulse to protect the unlucky few.

On the other hand, "unlucky few" sounds a little elitist, doesn't it? No wonder Superman ticks people off.

"I got yer Man o' Tomorrah hanging right here, buddy!"
 
 
---
18:12 / 13.09.06
I would fly into random encounters with people I havent met yet in person, take on psychic-cancer villains, along side these 'strangers' as allies, or else exchange potent magical dialogs. When it wasnt that, I'd run into something cosmic, go to The Invisible College, The Spaceport, and all sorts of busied places teaming with traveling conscious beings. Then to go online, or talk in person, and compare notes, knowing that I haven't been dreaming these things alone.

Whatever you're doing, and no matter how badly this thread has fucked up for you, it looks like you need to be focusing on this type of situation and have a deeper look at what's going on. I mean : who are the people you haven't met in person and what are they saying to you? Who are the psychic-cancer villans and strangers? What type of magical dialogues are going on here and what type of meaning do you think they contain? Same for the Invisible College and the Spaceport, etc. They might look half delusory to you at the moment, but they could end up representing symbols, ideas, or perceptions that you might need to be understanding a bit more.
 
 
klint
18:19 / 13.09.06
OK, fair enough, I'll stop being a dick for a moment. I can see why Chaoflux's post isn't understood out of the context of his LJ, as people here haven't read much of the "back story" and his post is anything but concise. I don't know if he'll be back, but I still think this is interesting so I'll take a stab at an "executive summary."

This work is meant to take place as "day dreaming" but as, uh, "sleep dreaming."

This all started because he's been having a lot of what you could call Invisibles-esque dreams, and frequently he runs across people he knows who report back having similar experience (I've shared some "dreamspace" with him myself, but I haven't actually had any of the "battle" dreams [and I don't want to]). There are many people in these dreams (his, mine, and other's) who hav yet to be identified. Are they real people having similar dreams?

So what he's proposing here, if I understand it correctly, is a project in which people record their dreams and we all try to figure what's going on in "the story" and how many people are actually a part of it. From there, we can eventually start to change the narrative of the story, and and make a work of art out of it. This seems to be the point of most magical/shamanist/whatever practice. Plunge the depths of consciousness, come back with something concrete. Is that so crazy? As for delusions of grandure, well maybe, but it never hurts to dream big.

So is it a waste of time to try to map this particular dreamspace/human experience and try to make a comic out of it? Maybe. But it sounds like fun to me.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
18:22 / 13.09.06
(Well, i should have previewed the post. Here goes again. Feel free to skip last post.)

I think here underlies something. Not in the mesianic tone of chaosflux but, hey, mesianic complex is something that a strong spiritual experience can derivate to. I have lived it, and surely more than two more persons here too.

I have met in my town two pairs of (female) friends that, in her childhood, shared dreams; was that the astral plane? the dreamscape? I don't know.

I'm sorry that this page is in spanish: link. This people (onironauts) claims to have similar experiencies that the ones chaosflux describes. These onironauts say that they find common places, common people and they're able to share information. Stan Krippner contemplates this kind of dreams in this excellent article.

Lately i've been surfin' on Zoe7 stuff, and he does link to these ayahuasca's seminars. In intermediate level, they offer to learn you "How to fend off astral entities and psychic attachments" ...

holy crap ...

what do you thing?

Someone in spanish timeband wants to try dream intercommunication ... ehhhrrr ... mordant? 0:-) now i'm a white magician. Beyoncé has shown me the way :-D
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
18:27 / 13.09.06
Sorry, Digital Horus Eye, my dreams are already spoken for. My guys are total bandwidth hogs.
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
18:28 / 13.09.06
Okay, I'll come crawling back like the dog I am.

I do admit my livejournal whine post was more than a bit reactionay, and I already knew perfectly well that I was going to garner this exact sort of heat from posting on Barbelith. What I didn't know, is how I would react to it. Although what I put out there, wasnt anything I worked particularly hard on, and was much more of a caffiene fueled musing, it still bothered me to be misunderstood to such an extreme degree.

I would have responded to an easier tone, rather than opening up to fifteen posts this morning filled with name calling and coal raking. Its as if I made the ultimate social disgrace that deserved such a reception. The reason that you dont see me around on the Temple all that much is because most of the time, all of what I see is harsh and unconstructive. I ignored the mood of it because I wanted to offer an alternative, convinced that not everyone enjoys flaming. I still dont understand why its taken so seriously, its just the internet.

None of the ground I covered was fresh, and that was intentional. I wanted to get old school and get excited, and feel the way I did when I first heard this forum existed. Its a much different place now, and you dont see those old posters you wish you did because of it, not because of my supposed airey fairy wankery.

As far as myself being a fool pretending to be jack frost in my bedroom, thats not at all the right context for what I'm talking about.

Its hard to 'come out' and talk about the things that I've experienced just because of whats going on here. I dont want people to think Im trying to say, 'I have powers, check this out, Im awesome, and if you dont, you suck.' Thats why the whole construct of superheroism works, and I feel that those who have not had any experience with DreamWalking Encounters can find something accessable within this. I already feel like the things I want to share with people will be the same things that put me away, but I just have too much evidence to the contrary that goes beyond my own skull. This is why I made that remark against the Occidentalists, Western minded people, because the things I'm communicating are in no way revolutionary or exceptional in the context of the ancient East. Its just the context and the language I'm using thats new, and even then, thats only new within the last couple years, starting with The Invisibles, the whole reason this board exists.

... I just refreshed the page and Klint has done a much better job articulating my 'back story' than I can at the moment, so take it from there.

Something is up, or something is up with me, and Im just looking for friends who understand, thats the bottom line. Thats it.

OK, fair enough, I'll stop being a dick for a moment. I can see why Chaoflux's post isn't understood out of the context of his LJ, as people here haven't read much of the "back story" and his post is anything but concise. I don't know if he'll be back, but I still think this is interesting so I'll take a stab at an "executive summary."

This work is meant to take place as "day dreaming" but as, uh, "sleep dreaming."

This all started because he's been having a lot of what you could call Invisibles-esque dreams, and frequently he runs across people he knows who report back having similar experience (I've shared some "dreamspace" with him myself, but I haven't actually had any of the "battle" dreams [and I don't want to]). There are many people in these dreams (his, mine, and other's) who hav yet to be identified. Are they real people having similar dreams?

So what he's proposing here, if I understand it correctly, is a project in which people record their dreams and we all try to figure what's going on in "the story" and how many people are actually a part of it. From there, we can eventually start to change the narrative of the story, and and make a work of art out of it. This seems to be the point of most magical/shamanist/whatever practice. Plunge the depths of consciousness, come back with something concrete. Is that so crazy? As for delusions of grandure, well maybe, but it never hurts to dream big.

So is it a waste of time to try to map this particular dreamspace/human experience and try to make a comic out of it? Maybe. But it sounds like fun to me.
 
 
Quantum
18:29 / 13.09.06
Klint- see, that makes sense and sounds like the sort of thing a lot of people would be interested in- shared lucid dreaming, cool. The way it was presented was the problem, when you say it it sounds fine.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:31 / 13.09.06
This thread in itself isn't worth much, let's face it, but, man!, have any of you ever seen so many barbequotable lines so tightly packed together in one single place???

Specially you, Mordant. You're on fire!
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
18:35 / 13.09.06
Someone in spanish timeband wants to try dream intercommunication

thats interesting, one of the random emails I got from someone who isnt on my friends list or reads my livejournal, was a really nice guy from Argentina. Thanks for the links, thats really helpful.
 
 
Dead Megatron
18:36 / 13.09.06
My previous post was meant as a compliment, of course. I hope ot came across that way.

And you chaosguy, nothing against you or your intent per se (I don't even know you ro know what you're thinking) but your previous post was just not so well written, you know? Too much cliché lines trying to sound too cool, and hip, and epic. People here prefer a more serious, "academic" (in the lack of a better term) approach to teh magic(K) stuff, is all.
 
 
Quantum
18:38 / 13.09.06
Occidentalists, Western minded people

Aha! Thanks, You, although I'd dispute the underlying assumptions at least now we know what you mean.
So, shared lucid dreamspace adventures, can we have a bit more background? It sounds like you have consistent locations, which I do too, are they perceived the same way by all concerned?
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
18:44 / 13.09.06
who are the people you haven't met in person and what are they saying to you?

They are people I have never met before in person at the time, that I end up meeting later, or I have communication with on the Internerd, who share with me uncanny coincidences in their dreams, or else, have been dreaming of me the very same nights I have dreamed of them.

Who are the psychic-cancer villans and strangers?

Its weird. Sometimes its mythological in a sense, like my team and I are fighting the Police or evading them, almost always winning, since they dont know how to fly or speed up time, crazy shit. Other times, its like we stumbled into the basement of very twisted individuals, and find ways to unclog their realities, or disinfect their wounds. [Like the Cell or something.]

What type of magical dialogues are going on here and what type of meaning do you think they contain? Same for the Invisible College and the Spaceport, etc.

What type? Riddles, coded information that only makes sense in the respect to events that havent happened yet. Weird shit. I'm not sure I can say what they contain besides saying something like its a koan. The Invisible College and the Spaceport are common places that I've run across many other travelers, the former being very much in use like you know it is in the comic, and the later as being sort of a transdimensional gate with creatures I have trouble building imagery for in my minds eye.


They might look half delusory to you at the moment, but they could end up representing symbols, ideas, or perceptions that you might need to be understanding a bit more.

That is all true. I feel that these dreams, which I can tell clearly from normal dreams, or even normal lucid dreams, contain the elements deep self and resolution that are for me to unpack, understand, and use to grow in my world. But, on top of that, its a communicative grounds where everyone is coming across eachother, meeting up, and everything else I talked about. This leads me to the model that all of life, sleeping and waking, contains the same elements of information to try and goad an indvidual on to the next breakthru and growth, its is all just as much a dream as it is concrete reality.

Thanks for your reply ))
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
18:49 / 13.09.06

And you chaosguy, nothing against you or your intent per se (I don't even know you ro know what you're thinking) but your previous post was just not so well written, you know? Too much cliché lines trying to sound too cool, and hip, and epic. People here prefer a more serious, "academic" (in the lack of a better term) approach to teh magic(K) stuff, is all.


Im a horrible writer and I tend to highlight my ernest excitement. The thinks that excite me are cliches, and they will probably always be that way, thats just the imprinting Im stuck with fella's. :P Im personally not a fan of super-academics when it comes to this stuff. Id rather people have fun, and be honest about their internal environmenst. Id like to see much more epics and self-mythologizing, everything else is dry and bores me to tears. Again, I was trying to offer my alternative, but I suppose I'll have to work on my writing skills if I want to be taken seriously by people who dont know what Im about.
 
 
Quantum
18:54 / 13.09.06
I'll have to work on my writing skills

I don't think so, you sound fine now.
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
18:59 / 13.09.06
So, shared lucid dreamspace adventures, can we have a bit more background? It sounds like you have consistent locations, which I do too, are they perceived the same way by all concerned?

Yes, I have a few. The only two I mention that have been consistent places of visit have been the ones Ive mentioned. The Invisible College, and the Spaceport. The latter needs a cooler name, help anyone?

Anyways, most of the time there is a consensus on these places between different dreamers, but everyone seems to understand places/people/events in the way in which their minds will let them in, and so the story is colored by the viewer. To me, as dorky as this may be, this is basically illustrated in a company wide story arc in comics. Basically, the same story of Crisis in Batman has a comepletely different tone, meaning, and composition than in the books of Superman. I've been hanging out with super-friends here and there, and the point of my project is to try and compose the comic that could be the one that ties it all together, like the Infinite Crisis book, or the bookends of Seven Soldiers. Seven Soldiers is probably alot better of a way to illustrate what I just mentioned. The same story is happening to everyone, they all deal with it on their own terms, colored by their own world, and yet its all for the same goal [loosely.]

Comics have a whole framework to use for these DreamWalking Epics, and it makes the most sense to me to use, since all my occulty friends seem to resonate with them so strongly.
 
 
Dead Megatron
19:01 / 13.09.06
Sorry for the implied sarcasm, but...

since they dont know how to fly or speed up time, crazy shit.

Wouldn't it work better to, you know, know how to slow down time instead?
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
19:05 / 13.09.06
I don't think so, you sound fine now.

Its hard for me to get the initial idea out there without being all epic and trying to sell people on it, since when it comes down to it, I'm insecure about people putting my sanity into question. Also, making a dry academic post about superheroics, the meme Im going to stick with for this thing, seems even more laughable than my approach, which although seems impossible, can be done.
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
19:06 / 13.09.06
Wouldn't it work better to, you know, know how to slow down time instead?

Different tools for different problems. Im just going on my experience. What I really should have said is 'being able to move as fast as The Flash.'
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
19:16 / 13.09.06
This all started because he's been having a lot of what you could call Invisibles-esque dreams, and frequently he runs across people he knows who report back having similar experience (I've shared some "dreamspace" with him myself, but I haven't actually had any of the "battle" dreams [and I don't want to]).

Battle dreams in which the good guys have the mysterious power to move at superhuman speed and fly...

I think, and stop me here, that if you read the Invisibles a lot and watch the Matrix a lot, and conceptualise how you interact with the world in those terms, and if all your friends do likewise, I don't see it as hugely surprising if you and your friends dream about environments that seem a lot like the Invisibles or the Matrix.

However, it's as good a conceptual framework as anything. So, let's strip off all the superhero stuff and all the bits about being the good guys in a fight against evil, and start on the project. Basically, the start of the project is to attempt to share and record lucid dreams. How do you verify this sharing? I'd start there, and work up. Perhaps, rather than asking the next morning if the person you dreamed about dreamed about you, you might want to try a blind trial - say half a dozen people keep dream diaries for a fortnight without communicating with each other, and then see how they correspond. Of course, that presupposes linear time, but it might be a start.
 
 
My Mom Thinks I'm Cool
19:24 / 13.09.06
It's always nice to see a poster recover from a bad start and produce interesting conversation. kudos. you give me hope that even I may one day produce something worth reading around here...

my limited experimentation with shared dreaming didn't produce much; there was one time that I think a message got through but it was *so* distorted by the differences in our, uh, symbol sets or whatever...that it seemed impossible to differentiate between the message and noise until we were both communicating in person again (vaguely similar to the problem with using quantum entanglement to communicate, I believe.)

anyway...I often see reoccuring dream landscapes which feel, hm, closer to one than to another, and it occurred to me to try and make some kind of a map out of them...but I'm not sure that they're 2d, in other words one location might be "next to" too many others to fit on a regular map. guess it might still be worth trying out.

seems like I've seen a lot of threads around here for dreams, do we have a general "what did you dream about" thread (actually maybe that was in Convo?) to compare or look for an "invisibles college" setting...for instance I was tempted to write about a vaguely Invisibles College-like lucid dream I once had which might be interesting to some people here but not others...should that go here or somewhere else (or would you rather not hear about it?) limit it to just these kinds of dreams? just recent ones? etc?
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
19:46 / 13.09.06
From there, we can eventually start to change the narrative of the story, and make a work of art out of it. This seems to be the point of most magical/shamanist/whatever practice.

Da Fug?
 
 
Unconditional Love
19:59 / 13.09.06
Correct me if i am wrong but you seem to be saying that magick and religion construct narratives and story to create a context for experience to take place.

Its this context that you would wish to effect thus effecting your own perceptions and the perceptions of the other dreamers, this would of course have to be a consensual group decision between the dreamers in order to effect change.
 
 
Ticker
20:02 / 13.09.06
This seems to be the point of most magical/shamanist/whatever practice.


Yeah not so much the point of my whatever practice. I understand and support the concept of magic as an artform both product and process related but it has never been the point of my work and many cultures that have magic/shaman/whatevers also have art. I'm fairly certain they would be clear if that's what they were up to.
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
20:19 / 13.09.06
let's strip off all the superhero stuff

never! :O

Anyways, yes, I see your point that everyone I know can have the same imprinted memes. But that doesnt explain away all the times I talk with someone I havent talked to in a while, and we both have to tell eachother something about a dream from that very night. The blind trials is fine for those who still want to work on 'lets see if this is really real, for real', but I personally don't resonate with that. Call me unacademic, fine, if any academics are up for it, Id like to see their results.

The superhero thing actually only works when explaining in to people in person, because its not actually all that much like that when its happening. The construct just makes it all that more easier to understand in conversation, for me anyways. Sometimes the symbolism is apt, sometimes its not. Anyways, the comic thing is fun for me too. I like the idea of abstracting my friends and allies based on their talents and personas, as they do me, and finding a way to intergrate that into a greater narrative as we interact with the contents of Dreamspace. I dont want to get all serious and start calling myself a Dream Warrior, because that would be silly.
 
  

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