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The Invisibles : a call to arms

 
  

Page: 1234(5)6

 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
16:12 / 17.09.06
Well, don't know much about Rense, but that's a resume of book, Stargate Conspirancy (a very recommandable reading, that puts on the table a interesting theory about New Age Channelling).
Not an uncriticall link, Mordant.

That i'm saying is that, leaving apart from mesianic tones and all that, maybe it is happening something in the astral. And i only ask people about their impressions. That's ok?

About the Crowley thing and all that, yeah, my english grammar is limited tanhauser, but yes, i owe you a beer.
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
16:33 / 17.09.06
Its worth considering that not everyone is so adept at creating a clear system out of what they are experiencing, but that does not negate the experiences in the collective arena per se.

A little compassion helps.
 
 
Olulabelle
18:19 / 17.09.06
Making sense helps more.
 
 
Spinoza Splat
19:10 / 17.09.06
Wow, what an enjoyable mess of a thread. The response to the (I hope) well meaning noobs in here is not exactly encouraging. I'm looking at you Mordant. Being a Temple badass is all well and good but if you're going to shout down poor EventHorizon simply because ze comes to the defense of the confused first poster...maybe if all the blasted noobs repeating the same terrible patterns is too much for Mordant ze should take a break from Barbelith? Ze seems stretched to the breaking point in some of them frothing replies...

I'm sure I missed Mordant's sage and well rounded POINT and will be kindly reminded of missing said POINT.


At any rate, carry on my wayward sons.
 
 
Spinoza Splat
19:15 / 17.09.06
Just to fracture this thread a bit further before it gets taken down...Jakob Bohme...

What do you folks think of the German Xian mystic/gnostic/???

Has anyone found any online Bohme sources? I've had not much luck.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:34 / 17.09.06
Is that you, Mother?
 
 
Feverfew
19:41 / 17.09.06
I don't think that's particularly helpful, Spinoza.

While I can almost see your point of view regarding Mordant's dialogue with both parties concerned upthread, I can also see the reasoning behind Mordant's choice of phrases, I think.

Chao/you's initial post could be read as incredibly well-meaning but badly phrased; on the other side, it could be read as patronising and relatively incoherent. Another issue taken up was the simple nature of the unedited cutting and pasting from a livejournal, I believe, which added further to the disjointedness.

But... Five pages in, and the argument seems to have transcended to arguing about arguing, which is not a particularly productive discussion.

Where do we go, from here? Barbelith is not, contrary to the way it seems to be painted at the moment, a harsh place - so long as you abide by the loose social tenets, which, I believe, could be approximated down to one of the 'laws' of Las Vegas; "Don't burn the locals", or, more prosaically, don't march into the Temple with an outstanding new theory without planning on having to retract, rephrase or redo what you write down.

Considering that all we have here is text, then presentation could be said to be the most important thing. Chao/You's first post attracted a lot of flak for this; then ze started to unpack, but I think, in my humblest opinion, that we are a long way from true communication here, which is something I think is truly needed.

In short; what's the argument here, or the theory advanced, broken down into it's simplest possible terms? Perhaps foundations would be useful before building the house?
 
 
EventHorizon
19:45 / 17.09.06
I'm oficially pulling stakes on this thread and disconnecting life support. I've tried my best to put Chaos's ideas in a more appealing light, but failed on all accounts. I still think that he has something highly interesting on to boil, and encourage him to pursue it, but it seems apparent that Barbelith is not the appropriate venue, at least at this point in time.

Mordant, I am extremely disappointed in the way you've treated many of the posters on this thread, and I'm also very disappointed in the way that I've been treated. I have tried to remain as diplomatic as possible, but you seemed to be more interested in being negative and attacking parts of my and other people's posts that were completely accessory to the actual point that was trying to be made. In the first reply to my post you basically agreed to my major points, but spent five times as many words attacking parts of the post that were just trying to help translate the point in way that most people could relate to.

If you'd still be interested in my thoughts on the Event Horizon and of Domains of Consciousness, I'd still be interested in making them public, otherwise this is probably the last I'll be heard from on Barbelith in quite some time.
 
 
Feverfew
19:52 / 17.09.06
I don't think you failed on all accounts.

I think it's to your credit that you tried.

However, if an idea or an argument cannot stand up to criticism in any form to any degree of extremity - even the degree you accuse Mordant of, whom I do not presume to speak for remotely but; then maybe that idea needs more work than you can provide, maybe the argument has run it's course, or maybe it is just not strong enough and is washed away by the waters of either reason or criticism, whichever applies.

I don't come back to the Temple often - not for any profound or sustained reason, I just feel very out-of-my-depth here - but why is it whenever I do, someone has found it necessary to try and blame Mordant for something? Seriously. Perhaps if I stay away long enough all will be peaceful and fluffy.

It's entirely possible that Chao/you's post, if decompressed, rewritten and repackaged could lead to the communal blossoming of our lotus-flower-consciousnesses in one fell psychic swoop. But it's equally possible that, unfortunately, it won't.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
20:47 / 17.09.06
Yes, if people don't get off Mordant's back, be assured that, much like Jonathan Richman, I'm gonna meet them on the astral plane, but unlike benign, peaceful Jono, I will be bringing some psychic melee weaponz.
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
21:25 / 17.09.06
Wouldn't that be against the rules?
 
 
Spinoza Splat
21:49 / 17.09.06

Mordant Carnival: Reinforced
(prev. Mordant C says meen fings)
22:34 / 17.09.06

Is that you, Mother?

Yes Mordant, it's Mum and it's time for your pills...
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
22:05 / 17.09.06
But anyhow, I agree with Feverfew.

I didn't have any tact, and I had no idea it would be such a big deal, since I honestly didnt really understand how the Temple really worked. Sorry about that. I'm also sorry that I made that followup bitch post on my lj, the "fuck england" one. Honestly folks, I dont hate england.

I made my followup pitch, but even that seems full of holes to me, honestly. I think I'm going to take a few steps back from giving a damn about this whole thing for a little bit and see where I default at.

I wouldn't personally mind if you deleted this thread, and I wouldn't just start up a new one for at least a bit of a while. You could also stick me on the wiki as a head on a pike, as it would be my distinct honor.

I may not like some of you, [and not because you may or maynot be english], but I know when you are right, and I appreciate it.

The thread is too muddled [at its start down to its finish] to be recovered into anything useful for the Temple, IMO. Although the discussion has been useful for me, personally.

Thanks again.
 
 
petunia
22:09 / 17.09.06
Trolling takes its name from a type of fishing, in which one drags one's line backwards and forwards across a lake behind a boat, seeking to catch a fish.
- Haus

Spinoza, you appear to be trolling. Trolling is not much appreciated on this board.
 
 
Ticker
22:12 / 17.09.06
As stated elsewhere one of the beauties of this board is respect is earned and tolerance is offered freely until abused.

The posters wanting to talk about lucid shared dreaming wrapped up in language of cabal/quantum mechanics/Invisibles were asked repeatedly to shape their proposal in the language of this community, a community in which these concepts have been explored in great depth and revealed to be very complex. When the posters failed to offer in depth analysis the community responded with multiple requests and many offers of how to engage in meaningful exchange.

The posters with the proposal did not change their language or presentation even after repeated examples of how to do so. Finally many invested members of this community became more vocal with their frustration and this too was brushed off rather than treated with respect.

Let me be very clear, posters earn repect by the clear and thoughtful presentation of their ideas. Disagreement is a welcome process by which we learn new perspectives. To many of us the standard of communication in the Temple is a cherished protective tool so we may engage with other thoughtful folks and not have to waste energy on mindless ego derived prattle.

Using the word 'paradigm' fifty million times does not make up for craptastic faulty research. Shutting down and being dismissive of other people's traditions and forms of energy work makes you look like an asshole. Using hot topic words and phrases does not prove your point especially when you are not saying anything of value. Not bothering to become part of a community by listening to other people will quickly eat through any tolerance offered to you. Talking down to a respected member because you are unable to hold your own in an arguement will rightly earn you the boot and the sight of our backs.

Being a Temple badass is all well and good but if you're going to shout down poor EventHorizon simply because ze comes to the defense of the confused first poster...maybe if all the blasted noobs repeating the same terrible patterns is too much for Mordant ze should take a break from Barbelith?

Mordant has taken the time to engage with numerous people in helpful indepth exchanges. Who the fuck are you and do you even understand how offensive you are being? Do you even care about the topic or are you merely waiting for a moment to reveal your divine jackass finery?

To the infantile fucktards who are pulling up tent stakes and whisking off to hold court in less rigorous environments: PRETTY SOUNDING WORDS DO NOT MAKE YOUR POINT FOR YOU.

Now please kindly go forth and pour your tepid unimaginative regurgated drivel upon the welcoming ears of your true peers and stop wasting our time.
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
22:29 / 17.09.06
...
 
 
Char Aina
22:38 / 17.09.06
i'm still waiting on your response to my last couple of posts, chief.
are you unable or are you unwilling?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:43 / 17.09.06
What is the point.
He would only be picked apart.
By limeys.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:51 / 17.09.06
Ah, that was a bit mean. youchaothingwhatever, if you wanted to step back and maybe have another crack at this in a fresh thread, taking on board some of the discussion we've had here, that would be fine. Like I've been trying to get across I do think that this shared-lucid-dreaming project of yours might have legs, it just needs to be thought through and fleshed out a bit more.

I'll get to the rest of you later. One. By. One.
 
 
EventHorizon
22:58 / 17.09.06
xk,

To be quite honest, I am very appreciative that you chose to post what you did and when you did. I also must admit that I agree with you on just about all points, and would like to hopefully clear the air a bit on my intentions, and like others, would be happy to see this thread closed. I'll try to keep it brief and to the point.

My intentions when I made my first response to this thread, was simply to try to pull out the bits of meaning in the original first post that jumped out at me, and put them in a way that would be better received by the Temple community. I could not personally relate to what chaos was trying to accomplish, but I had hoped that if I translated it in a more tasteful way that more people that could relate would be receptive to his idea. Unfortunately, the examples and words I chose to do so, in hindsight, were not the best for that task, so I ended up fueling the flames even further. For that, I apologize. It's quite apparent that you's idea needs to be further developed, and better worded before it would be well received by the Temple community.

Also, to Mordant,

I would like to say that I still hold you and your practice in a high place of respect, and I look forward to collaborating with you in future threads, hopefully on much better terms. It's quite obvious that I myself have a lot to learn before posting to the temple, as the reception I received to my posts was truly not at all what I had expected, or intended. It was probably not a wise decision to make such an entrance on what had already become quite a painful topic. I apologize for making a painful subject even more so, and it is my hope that we can put this behind us and move on to far more productive conversation in the future.

to xk, mordant and all of the Temple old-timers...The Temple is the main reason why I joined Barbelith. I remember the first day I found Barbelith and The Temple, and how happy it made me to find such a sane discussion place, free from the plagues that you find on most Internet discussion areas, especially on the esoteric. I have been a long time lurker for a reason, mainly because I wanted to make sure that my first posts would be a contribution and be well-received. Although it was my intention and hope that this would happen when I launched the first long-winded post to this thread, obviously I missed the mark. It is my hope that my further contributions will not do so. It's quite apparent that I still have a lot to learn about Temple, so please bear with me as I try my best to become a better contributor in the future.
 
 
Spinoza Splat
23:13 / 17.09.06
Whoa. Whoa. Everything Horizon just said :P and Sorry Mordant and xk if my, admittedly off the cuff but passing, remarks have offended. Twas truly not my intention. I thought Chaosflux's intitial post ill conceived. However, the replies Flux and Horizon were given struck me as increasingly unhelpful and even savage. Granted, it was a fucked thread from the start. Still, are not we inexperinced posters given some exceptionally slight leeway? And no, I have nada stake in this thread nor do I particularly care about said thread. Do any of us? Are we going to kill our respective selves tomorrow if this thread doesnt go our respective ways?

I'm not entirely sure how Mordant's, "Is that you Mother?" is less smart aleck than my response, "Yes it's Mum" ...

I respect all who post on barbelith and I take posting here as seriously as I can for something contained within these internets. I hope this thread has not totally screwed my barbelith prospects. However I will humbly suggest that first time posters perhaps be given just a bit more comfortable an atmosphere in which to get shot down.

Hopefully my jackass finery has not revealed itself just yet ...
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:13 / 17.09.06
Thanks for that, EventHorizon, and I look forward to having more positive interactions with you soon.

Can I just point out at this juncture that xk is not a Temple old-timer. Check hir profile--ze joined in May of this year. I don't know if anyone here knew hir prior to that, but I didn't. Same goes for quite a few of t3h n00bs round here.

It might be worth reflecting on just why it is that some people can turn up in the Temple and mysteriously slot right in, whereas others get preserkuted by teh meen mods? Could it be that--GASP!--it's not just the fact that one is new that gets one a bollocking, but maybe the content of one's posts? I know, it's a wild and out-there notion, but there might be something in it.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:26 / 17.09.06
However I will humbly suggest that first time posters perhaps be given just a bit more comfortable an atmosphere in which to get shot down.

Shan't. They can read the bloody wiki and a few threads off the front page, can't they? Right then.

By the way, a swift click on that magic profile button would have revealed unto you that chaoflux, far from being a 'first time poster,' had actually been signed up here for over a year before his ill-judged Lj cross-post. klint, a member of his supporter's club, has been here almost as long as I have.

I'm just sayin'.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
23:33 / 17.09.06
I take posting here as seriously as I can for something contained within these internets. I hope this thread has not totally screwed my barbelith prospects. However I will humbly suggest that first time posters perhaps be given just a bit more comfortable an atmosphere in which to get shot down.

Well don't take the following as "shooting down" please, but you asked earlier:

Has anyone found any online Bohme sources? I've had not much luck.

There are in fact loads and loads of sources, from Wikipedia onwards. You got the guy's name wrong. It's Boehme.
 
 
Spinoza Splat
23:37 / 17.09.06
Actually Bohme's wikipedia article is rather light on outside sources, imho. As for his name, I've seen it spelled a few ways, one of which is Bohme with umlats over m...sadly I don't know how to use umlats with this keyboard.
 
 
Spinoza Splat
23:41 / 17.09.06
Could you perhaps relate to me some Bohme resources other than wikipedia and those offered therein, Trousers?

Yes, I negelected to check Flux's profile, alas.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:45 / 17.09.06
Maybe this will help, Spinoza. Don't say I never done nuffink for ya.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
23:52 / 17.09.06
Is there any profit in keeping this thread open? At lthis point, is it anything more than a lightning rod for people to attack Mordant and the barbelite/barbeclique/long-standing posters? Those who have contributed, at this point, seem primarily to have undertaken to start again and seek to post from better principles, which seems to me a positive outcome.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
23:56 / 17.09.06
okay, point taken, spinoza - and yes, I agree with you regarding the lightness of the wikipedia article, so what kind of material are you after, specifically?

There are a few online versions of Boehme's writings here including The Way to Christ. here's a link to Hegel's lecture on Boehme, and here's another essay on Boehme I found useful.

I'd suggest starting a thread on Boehme Spinoza, if you really want a discussion.
 
 
Spinoza Splat
23:57 / 17.09.06
Thanks for that Mordant. As an interesting side note, one hell of a storm has started outside, my area is suddenly under a tornado warning. I am suddenly rethinking my approach with Temple...
 
 
Spinoza Splat
23:59 / 17.09.06
Ah, much appreciated Trouser.
 
 
Unconditional Love
00:40 / 18.09.06
please please please lock this thread, delete it.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
04:45 / 18.09.06
Let's keep it going. I was actually intrigued by the idea of "quantum touch" ... although I guess it probably doesn't involve taking the lovable Temple moderator and rubbing him over someone's afflicted parts.
 
 
--
05:14 / 18.09.06
Personally, Doom Patrol were way cooler than the Invisibles ever were. Sexiness and style are horribly overrated by society. Though Mason Lang was kind of a bad-ass... Like Morgan Everett, just a little less old and fat.
 
 
Olulabelle
07:56 / 18.09.06
Okay. So now everyone has taken a deep breath, shall we try again? If everyone could agree not to reference anything confrontational back thread we can try to have the original conversation. Some people appear to think that here are some salvageable points for discussion here, so perhaps we could focus on those, using language and a presentation style that the Temple prefers.
 
  

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