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Underground > Temple >

The Invisibles : a call to arms

  
  

Page: 123(4)56

 
 
EventHorizon
22:45 / 16.09.06
I would like to throw my hat in the ring for better or for worse. I have been a long time lurker of Barbelith, but have refrained from doing much posting for reasons I'm not quite sure of. Chaoflux's post caught my intuitive mind's eye immediately, and I was quite excited for a number of different reasons. I was then quite surprised and disappointed to read the flaming pejorative that quickly followed in great volume. I found for the first time in my life, yelling at the computer monitor, "you're missing the point!". Fortunately, things leveled out considerably as I continued to read, and I finally reached the end of the post, where I have stopped here to respond.

I resonated with Mr. Flux's post for a few reasons. First of all, the timing at which he presents such an idea/phenomena feels quite relevant to many things that are going on in my life, and in the lives of most of those around me.

In the past six months or so, I have commented to friends and associates more times than I care to remember that it feels that a superhero team is assembling all around me, but the reasons and for what purpose I am unsure.

Now I don't mean superheroes in the literal sense, as I have never cared much for comics (that is until I read The Invisibles), and certainly not for archetypical superheroes. What lead me to make such a comment was a myraid of syncronicity in my life and in others, that not only lead to my own beginnings of awakening and self-realization, but nearly simultaneously to that of many of those around me. Suddenly, I find myself not holding conversations with friends about technology, computers or the like as would have been commonplace previously, but of mysticism, esoterica, meditation and so on. Not only that, but synchronicity is moving people I know cross-country, and cross-world to allow for things to happen that would be impossible or improbable otherwise. Amazing things are happening to me, mystical and esoteric "superpowers" coming online that I didn't know I had and hitherto didn't even know existed, and the same to many of those around me.

Now in the past two to three weeks, my observation has been that all this change seems to have stepped itself up greatly. Things are happening many times faster all of the sudden, and it is becoming apparent to people who before were oblivious. When Mr. Flux spoke of his own change and observations, it resonated with the observations of my own and most people around me.

I apologize for becoming a bit tangential, but I felt it was important to outline a bit of my own background in order to explain myself better. I plan to devote a post of its own to this subject, which I call "the Event Horizon hypothesis".

So on to Mr. Flux's post, about dreams and superheroes. Now before throwing my hat in, I re-read Flux's post, this time with the added context of the entire thread in mind. The perjorative and specifically Mordant's responses seemed understandable after a quick reread, even though I had quite the opposite reaction myself. My advice to Flux (and hindsight is 20/20, naturally, so no negativity is implied or meant), is that while his idea definitely falls into the circle of things that the Temple folk would probably be into, he really should have re-wrote the post for Barbelith, instead of just cross-posting his LiveJournal entry, which I've found here.

Because Barbelith was formed, for among other reasons, to be a haven away from the rampant illiterati that run wild on the fields of LiveJournal, MySpace, and most other forums out there, you cannot reasonably expect that a post that received kudos and acclaim on LiveJournal, would go over nearly as well on the likes of Barbelith. Not that I really need to outline this, as you already seem to have learned that lesson to some degree.

So what I see as the biggest hurdle is getting over the vocabulary paradox that plagues any two or more people trying to talk about esoteric or mystical studies, but from disparate backgrounds or paradigms. I can more closely relate to Mr. Flux's experiences not because I have mystical dreams about superhero battles, in fact my dreams are rarely meaningful, although I'd like that to change. But mainly because, like Mr. Flux, I do not have a long standing, tried and true paradigm, so my paradigm is quite literally welling up from the things around me. In Flux's case it seems to be from superheroes and mythology and its base of operations seems to take place mostly in his dreamspace. To me, I see this as no less valid, than my friend who is a bonafied mage, or my many buddhist friends, some of whom are very very deep into esoteric buddhism. Between all of them, myself, and seemingly Mr. Flux too, the underlying message is the same:


"The world is changing. Quickly. Humanity needs help in accomodating this change. The people who are called to service to aid in this change need to join forces if possible, and be ready for what is to come next, which will be happening soon."



So perhaps I am projecting my own experiences and ego onto that of Mr. Flux, but this is genuinely how his post appears to be to me, with just a bit of paradigm unwrapping. I see this same thread happening in much stranger paradigms than this. In fact, as strange as it may sound, I have recently come across a bunch of young kids with their own group who seem to be doing some hardcore mystical shit, that they were coming up with on their own. Their paradigm? They all beleive that characters from their favorite television show "Digimon", are real, and use that belief to astrally travel and set up domains of consciousness around their television show pantheon. Crazy.

So that's my (more than) two cents. I am hopeful that they will be well received, and I tip my hat to Mordant, for trying hir best to keep Barbelith from becoming the wasteland that is most and increasingly more of the internet every day. I also tip my hat to Mr. Flux, for creating quite a sensation in a very short time, and for inspiring me to start posting on Barbelith.

I hope to see you all very soon.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:16 / 16.09.06
Does a bias against anyone who does not post often count?

If you can substantiate this bias, yeah. It would count. You might want to note the posters who are getting a warm reception despite their user numbers being 5500 plus, coz you'll need to explain this in your argument.

If you wanted to substantiate the anti-non-regular-poster bias, you could start by putting forward your evidence that you did not just write an Lj post you thought was pretty awesome and decide to cut'n'paste it into a Barbelith thread completely unedited, without bothering to read the forum a bit first and maybe adjust the post to an audience that isn't on your Lj friends list (the hint was in the first paragraph, where you refer to a change in your work schedual which we might have noticed being reflected in a steady decline in my posts about Dreamers Magic, and Internal Dialogs. I doubt that anyone here with the possible exception of klint had noticed anything of the sort. I mean, dude, you didn't even file off the last chick's name before you gave us the bracelet).

It just takes more to change a mind rather than drive ones off ideas you just dont happen to agree with or think are fashionable.

Yeah, thank you for that. I really appreciate the accusation that the only ideas that get short shrift around here are the 'unfasionable' ones. You want to talk about 'fashionable' ideas? Fine. Go off and link me to the dozens of fora out there where you can even mention some of the stuff that gets talked about down here without everone else in the community freaking out. Please. Because I'd really like to see it.

Sick of this? Yeah, I am. I get ever sicker with every poster that turns up repeating the same tedious pattern. I'm gurving up Heinz strained carrots and BrontofuckingSaurus, that's how sick I am.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
23:52 / 16.09.06
In the past six months or so, I have commented to friends and associates more times than I care to remember that it feels that a superhero team is assembling all around me, but the reasons and for what purpose I am unsure.

Do you honestly think you are unique in having that kind of experience? Dude, it happens. When one magicko has a breakthrough, it tends to have repercussions amongst the people ze works with or is close to emotionally. I get this at times of serious spiritual upheaval in my life or the lives of my close allies. It can reinforce existin ties, or shatter them; it can turn aquaintances into friends or friends into bitter foes. It can be a very intense thing and I don't wish to diminish the impact of the experience, but you're not the first person to go through it and this is not the last time it will happen in your magical career.

I have recently come across a bunch of young kids with their own group who seem to be doing some hardcore mystical shit, that they were coming up with on their own. Their paradigm? They all beleive that characters from their favorite television show "Digimon", are real, and use that belief to astrally travel and set up domains of consciousness around their television show pantheon. Crazy.

Yeh, I came across that too. We were taking the piss out of it over in the Convo a couple weeks back. Why? Because it's fucking stupid. If you need me to explain why it's fucking stupid to insist that fucking Digimon are really really real and that you really come from their world, which is REAL, or even if your reality tunnel is shattered by the concept, then frankly you're in the wrong forum. Did these kerrraayyzee kids actually do anything with their astonishing belief system? Did it empower them in any way? Or did they mostly sit around talking about how they saw a Sausageomon on the patio last Sunday or how they were secretly Fuzzomonia, Queen of the Fluffymon? (Actually don't answer that. I might cry.)

Yeah, one might, if one were really into Digimon, construct magical workings that drew upon the Digimon characters. I myself enjoy talking to fictional people for various purposes (currently Chrestomanci from the DWJ-verse and Lorne off Angel) and used to have a functioning practice based on evoking Marge from Fargo. If you go and look through the files here you will realise that this.is.not.new, nor is it helpful.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
00:27 / 17.09.06
I am touching my dinkle to make you a nicer person, Mordant. Pikachu is helping.
 
 
Unconditional Love
00:34 / 17.09.06
i think from a certain perspective the digimon thingy just seems sad, but if you had no idea where to start with something that was going on with you or a group, you may well turn to the thing that you shared most in common with your peers.( or you may well be taking the piss)

That could be comic books, cartoons, computer games, rpgs,etc. Popular alternative culture has changed a hell of alot in the last 20 years, crowley and thelema were pushed when i was a youth so were burroughs, leary, wilson etc and paganism and magick had there fair share of look in, i wonder if thats still the case, and if there still packaged in the same way, from what i see around me i dont think that is, i see alot of very easily consumed magickal ideaologies that i would gather are most peoples stepping stones into magic, that and alot of fantastic ideas from popular culture.

I think perhaps there is a case for a magickal generation gap, although the internet provides alot of access to all sorts of information, i am guessing you start from whats closest to where you find yourself at the time, those things you find most valuable to yourself, that could be any range of different items and ideas from popular culture.

Anyway, more dream links - Dreamlinks okay the last item the one i was looking for is not there, but if you go to the converted by website you will find it, go to his start page, then magick, where there is also a very good essay on lucid dreaming and some other pdf documents you may find intresting.
 
 
Unconditional Love
00:35 / 17.09.06
LOL @ Haus.
 
 
Ticker
02:07 / 17.09.06
Pikachu is helping.

The Cheat doesn't take any shit from electric squirrels.
 
 
EventHorizon
02:18 / 17.09.06
Mordant,

Honestly, I am a bit disappointed at your response. I've always had a lot of respect for your experience and knowledge on things magical, and still do, and also understand your desire to keep this board on target, and at a certain level of quality, which is an appreciatively epic task to be sure. I tried my best to word my post as so specifically not to draw your ire, as I feel that I can empathize with it's source (at least from what I've read of your posts on the board), but I failed to do so.

Perhaps it is my own fault, for choosing to launch such an epic post on what is turning out to be quite a hot button issue.

Allow me to elaborate a bit on some of the issues that you raise, which in my opinion are quite valid. Also, I kindly request that we both keep as neutral and cordial a tone as possible, as you will find no hostility from me--I am here to discuss and share interesting information and thoughts on the subjects of esoterica, mysticism and how it relates to our changing world, and do not wish to get emotionally involved in the conversation itself, but remain focused on the task at hand.


Do you honestly think you are unique in having that kind of experience? Dude, it happens.


The answer to that question is, "Absolutely not". In fact, it is my hope that similar events are happening to other people, not connected to me. But perhaps what is not apparent from my original post is that my experiences have not been one magical event touching off another, and so on and so forth, but what feels like divine circumstance lining up series of mundane but complicated sets of events in order to create the environment that would allow something magical to come in to people and places where it had never been before. I would like to elaborate on this in my planned post ("The Event Horizon"), if you think it would be an interesting addition. It would be an elaboration of the details of these events, as well as my hypothesis on why and where it is headed, along with others hypotheses, from both scientific and unscientific backgrounds from people which are making similar observations.

Also, my observation about the recent past "speeding up", has been independently made by myself, along with many people around me, and some who are not connected except by distant occasional communication, but alas, I believe that to elaborate further would be to continue to dull a thread that is in need of desperate sharpening.


Yeh, I came across that too. We were taking the piss out of it over in the Convo a couple weeks back. Why? Because it's fucking stupid. If you need me to explain why it's fucking stupid to insist that fucking Digimon are really really real and that you really come from their world, which is REAL, or even if your reality tunnel is shattered by the concept, then frankly you're in the wrong forum.

Perhaps I should have elaborated a bit more before throwing that rather wacky curve ball out.

Let me start by saying that, no, I have no interest in Digimon, or any television program for that matter, and I do not believe that digimon are real, at least not in my reality (last time I checked). And I am aware of the posts making fun of the group in Convo, because that is where I was first made aware of the phenomena, which first struck me as highly amusing as well--I couldn't stop laughing for hours. My next reaction was that I found it highly intriguing.

Why would I find a bunch of sadly deluded shared children's fantasy intriguing? To be quite honest, I believed, and I still believe that it's possible that some of these children are doing quite interesting things by using their favorite television show as an excuse, an outlet. To me this is along the same lines as a child having a "real" imaginary friend, which is possibly as real to them as you or I would be. Obviously one cannot step into their reality and verify that the "friend" is not just a product of their active imagination and pretend skills, so one has to leave the possibility open that, to them, their friend is as real as you or I.

Unfortunately I have not had the time or the resources to pursue the digimon phenomena as much as I'd like, but if or once I do, I'm considering writing an article on the it, depending on how interesting my findings are. My best guess is that quite probably a majority of these children are just projecting their own fantasies and wishful thinking to come up with some rather creative, if not derivative fiction, but until I've investigated further, I'm leaving the possibility wide open that something much more is going on. I do know for relative certainty that one of the ringleaders of one of the digimon groups is nothing more than a very spoiled, very indulged little girl with an active imagination, a lot of wishful thinking, and a lot of free time. However, I'd say that it's possible, improbable, but possible, that we might be getting to witness a pantheon of to-be digimon gods and demigods being created right under our noses. To explain why I believe that is even a possibility would take a post in itself, but for now, lets leave the whole digimon thing be, as I'm still interested in Mr. Flux's idea, if it could get translated into something that would jive.

At any rate, I was only using the digimon example to demonstrate that I careth not what paradigm one uses, and until I'm certain that it is not more than mere fantasy and wishful thinking, I'll do my best not to judge or squelch it, as it is certainly not my place. I know from direct experience, of a form of energy healing that uses Quantum Physics as its paradigm in order to teach it to people that would not be able to swallow what is probably the truth of the matter: which is that is probably a high-powered form of some sort of cabalistic magic. But does it work, even though its packaged in modern "science"? Oh yes, quite disturbingly so.

I fear that at this point, Mr. Flux's idea may be too far gone in the field of confusion, but I'm hoping that we could still manage to get something out of it. I'm grateful that it at least managed to bring me out of the woodwork, and a few other people along with it, it seems.

I also would like to devote a post to Domains of Consciousness, and my natal working theory on how they connect to a lot of disparate things together (thoughtforms, pantheons, chaos magic, Buddhism and mandalas, tulpas and servitors, etc..), which might be a way to slide in flux's idea, but perhaps modified in a way more suitable to barbelith. Any thoughts on that?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
02:30 / 17.09.06
You actually *know* Chrestomanci from the DWJ-verse do you, Mordant?

It's just that I've always wanted to meet hir, in a bar or a restaurant (realistically, a bar might be better,) and ask hir kindly to read my novel, even though at nine hundred pages, (ten-point type, not double-spaced) and in the first of a projected series of twelve books that will get progressively longer and more complicated as time goes by, but ultimately explain the meaning of life, this might seem like a bit of a facer.

Never mind about that though. Could you hook me up?

(Please not to pretend that 'Chrestomanci' *doesn't really exist* - I've heard it before, and I'm not buying it.)
 
 
Ticker
02:40 / 17.09.06
At any rate, I was only using the digimon example to demonstrate that I careth not what paradigm one uses, and until I'm certain that it is not more than mere fantasy and wishful thinking, I'll do my best not to judge or squelch it, as it is certainly not my place. I know from direct experience, of a form of energy healing that uses Quantum Physics as its paradigm in order to teach it to people that would not be able to swallow what is probably the truth of the matter: which is that is probably a high-powered form of some sort of cabalistic magic. But does it work, even though its packaged in modern "science"? Oh yes, quite disturbingly so.


Okay let's talk about your cabalistic-quantum physics derived magic. I'm not completely clear on what the defined goal of your work is. Collective lucid dreaming has been the only thing framed out of many posts. Collective lucid dreaming that changes the world in some undefined way has been touched upon.

Are you using specific rituals or just free form inspired by modern story lines fantasy narrative magic?
Are you aligning yourself to a specific intent or just the general goal of world improvement?
 
 
EventHorizon
03:26 / 17.09.06
Okay let's talk about your cabalistic-quantum physics derived magic.

It's not mine, it's a system developed by a guy named Richard Bartlett. You can check out a bit about it here. To be quite honest, they do a pretty shoddy job of explaining it on that site, but it's there if you're interested. I ended up attending a 3-day seminar under very odd and synchronistic circumstances, and it really does make Reiki or similar look like a leaky water pistol in comparison. I actually took a sabattical from touching it roughly a week after I took the course, also due to odd and synchronistic circumstances, because I was not comfortable with the source of its power, not to mention its strenghth.

But that's irrelevant to the goal of my original post, which was to come to the aid of a a paradigm under assail. Since I do not have the pleasure of having such intricate dreams as Mr. Flux, I cannot participate, at least directly, in his paradigm, so my goal was to try to translate what I felt he was trying to get across, into a form that would hopefully be more appealing and accepting to the Temple folk, so that this thread could get back on its rails, and perhaps make something meaningful happen. My own work/paradigm, which I am still in the midst of exploring and fleshing out myself, is not related to any of the posts I've made on this thread so far, although I would love to put it out in the aether some day to see what the Temple thinks. But for now, I am hoping that Flux will come back and flesh out his idea a bit more and hopefully some meaningful and productive communication can take place instead of what we've seen so far in this thread (at least portions of this thread).
 
 
Ticker
03:33 / 17.09.06
and it really does make Reiki or similar look like a leaky water pistol in comparison.

I'm curious after reading the link I did not see any mention of Reiki. Was there something in the seminar that has lead you to this conclusion?

But that's irrelevant to the goal of my original post, which was to come to the aid of a a paradigm under assail. Since I do not have the pleasure of having such intricate dreams as Mr. Flux, I cannot participate, at least directly, in his paradigm, so my goal was to try to translate what I felt he was trying to get across, into a form that would hopefully be more appealing and accepting to the Temple folk, so that this thread could get back on its rails, and perhaps make something meaningful happen.

...and is that collective lucid dreaming with the goal of altering reality?
 
 
EventHorizon
03:50 / 17.09.06
I'm curious after reading the link I did not see any mention of Reiki. Was there something in the seminar that has lead you to this conclusion?

Reiki and Matrix Energetics are both energy healing modalities (although Matrix can be used for alot of other domains as well). I was just using Reiki as a comparison, since most people here seem to be familiar with it. I am not attuned myself, but have been worked on by several Reiki practitioners. I am experienced with "Quantum Touch", which is basically Reiki under a bit more western paradigm and does not require attunements, and the reiki practitioners that I know that use it no longer use Reiki as they feel Quantum Touch can do everything that Reiki does plus some extra bells and whistles to make things go smoother. Matrix on the other hand is a completely different animal.

There's a few practitioners that use both:
If you click here, you'll find a practitioner's site that I googled, which has a quick definition of Matrix and Reiki to give a quick comparison.
 
 
petunia
03:52 / 17.09.06
and it really does make Reiki or similar look like a leaky water pistol in comparison.

always be suspicious of anyone trying to aggrandise something by belittling another thing. That's what my mum taught me.

But i guess if we disagree, we could meet up on the astral (i choose the Japan Stage from Street Fighter II) and battle it out. Which card set shall we use?

But seriously - what would you count as 'similar' to reiki? Could you perhaps name a couple of other energy systems that are similar to reiki? It's not that i think you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about, you see, it's just that i'm not too clued in about energy systems other than reiki and would like to know more about them.
 
 
petunia
03:53 / 17.09.06
Cross post there. (in both senses)
 
 
EventHorizon
04:06 / 17.09.06
Very wise point, .trampetunia. I should have chose my words more carefully when describing Matrix Energetics, (ME). I have nothing against Reiki whatsoever, and in fact, I'd rather be worked on by a Reiki practitioner than an ME one at this point. The comparison I can make is kind of like this. With Reiki (or Quantum Touch), it has always felt to me like that you "run" energy, that is, you allow your body to become a conduit of energy from where ever it is that it is coming from, and you allow it to flow into what it is you are trying to help. However, with Matrix, it's much more dramatic and sudden. It feels to me like you are tightly stretching a rubber band with your intentions, and when you release that intention "collapsing the wave of consciousness", in ME jargon. When you do that, it's like letting the rubber band snap. The effects are dramatic and instantaneous, and quite often extremely powerful.

So my intention was not to belittle Reiki, although admittedly my choice of words made it appear that way. As I mentioned, I do not use ME, and continue to refrain until I am in a position to do a bit of "background checking", on just where all that power is coming from, and to verify that it is not coming from a dark place.
 
 
EventHorizon
04:15 / 17.09.06
To answer xk's question about Flux's original intent:

I believe Flux's intent was basically an attempt to find people that were having similar experiences as his own with his shared lucid dreaming. As far as what he wanted to do once he found those people, I don't think he had a specific intent in mind, at least not at this point. My goal with my first post, was to try to reduce some of the stigma with which his original post was received, and try to show that his paradigm, although unconventional, was still valid. Unfortunatley, I feel that I may have arrived too late in the game to make a difference, and may have just muddied the waters further in this already very muddy post. If that turns out to be the case, I duly apologize. Perhaps it might be best to close this thread, and allow Chaos to start over, which a more appropriate and refined post in mind?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:47 / 17.09.06
I'd say that it's possible, improbable, but possible, that we might be getting to witness a pantheon of to-be digimon gods and demigods being created right under our noses.

Would your head, like, explode if you were to read any of the threads in the Temple that don't have "Invisibles" in the title? Say f'rinstance this one, or one of the other treads dealing with pop-culture icons as Gods?

I'm also pretty exasperated with your posts on Reiki and Matrix Energetics. Look, ever since Reiki got big there have been people coming along with rival forms of energy healing. Giving it a silly movie-derived name doesn't change the fact that this is just one more TEH NEW REIKI!!1! product devised less with healing in mind and more with financial gain.

You say that Reiki is less powerful than Keanu Energetics, when you don't even have a Reiki attunement. As if that wasn't bad enough you go on to say you've never actually worked with Matrix Energetics in case it comes "from a dark place," a comment so unbelievably risible I don't know where to start with it.

How can you claim to have studied Reiki, to know what it is capable of, when you've never even used it? How can you realistically compare these two systems when you've never actively worked with them? You can't. Sorry, but from where I'm sitting you sound like a windbag who's turned up protest that a thread with Invisibles in the title isn't being loved on sufficiently; and to say "Matrix" and "Quantum" a lot of times because they are shiny words.

My goal with my first post, was to try to reduce some of the stigma with which his original post was received, and try to show that his paradigm, although unconventional, was still valid.

Well that's just grand. Mind telling us what his paradigm is, then? Only I've been trying to tease this information out of that cruddy first post and subsequent ones ever since this thread started, with not much joy. I've got as far as "some kind of shared lucid dreaming thingy, possibly affecting waking life in some unspecified way that the poster won't discuss." Any advance on that?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
08:51 / 17.09.06
(PS: Alex's Relative, shut up or I'll tell Doctor Compton you've been hiding your meds in the mattress and you'll get a needle in the bum again.)
 
 
Princess
11:15 / 17.09.06
Ok. Four pages have been wasted to gain very little in the way of useful dialogue. Could someone involved with the project just write down in a very simple, clear way what they want to discuss?
This is a discussion board. Discussion revolves around questions. What question is chaoflux asking? What are we meant to be answering? As far as I can tell the question is "Is anyone else here having crazy dreams/synchronicity?", in which case the answer is a fairly obvious "yes, helooo, we are practicioners too and inviting shiny magical stuff is kinda the whole game there". We've gone over this, its just a thing that happens, calm down.
Unless someone can provide another question, dilemna, or even a central subject I suggest we just stop wasting finger strength with the typing. If there is an actual project being undertaken then please detail it here, I would like to talk. I think other people would like to talk. But at the moment all we have is a wandering row stemming from an unclear, patronising, first post. Can any one who wants to keep this thread going summaraize what they want it to be about in a single paragraph? Is there any argument against modding this thread into a "I've had crazy revelation\dream" thread and making it into a space where people can just post random "insight" and leave the rest of the forum for actual, discussible, topics.

This is a discussion board, for discussion one would ideally have a topic. Unless we can find one what are we all actually doing in this thread.
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
11:24 / 17.09.06
Hey, I suggested this lines: link and link that give clues to maybe a *real* astral war goin' on. Hey, here in Spain we have an Illuminati who says he talks with the astral spirit of Crowley!
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
11:28 / 17.09.06
I'm very tempted to move for a lock, actually. The Temple needs a kerrayzee dream/revelation thread like it needs a hole in the head.
 
 
Princess
11:32 / 17.09.06
But Mordant, maybe we neeeeed a hole in he head? Maybe it would widen our narrow, tiny, exclusionist (and worst of all British) viewpoints?
If it gets locked can we put a link to the thread on the wiki, underneath fnording, maybe with the image of a head on a stick?
 
 
E. Coli from the Milky Way
12:05 / 17.09.06
a trepanation thread you say?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:08 / 17.09.06
I think that 3 things need to happen here for the topic to become viable.

1) The topic starter needs to articulate his project in a way that invites discussion. Barbelith is not a weblog. You can't post splurgy braindumps and expect everyone to say "Woah, cool." You need to tell us what it is you're trying to achieve and how you plan to achieve it.

2) Nobody's saying that you can't post here if you're inexperienced, or if you don't practice magic at all, but posters need to understand the difference between tossing around kewl-sounding ideas and actually doing the bloody work. I'm sorry, but a lot of what's been posted here screams "I have no actual experience of the concepts I'm discussing and am just pulling stuff out of my ear." Friends, there is a difference.

3) Please read the wiki entry on the Temple.

I'm going to give the thread until I get home on Monday night to recover, and then I'll be moving to lock this trainwreck.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:38 / 17.09.06
Hey, here in Spain we have an Illuminati who says he talks with the astral spirit of Crowley!

Were I to bet you a tenner that every population centre in the western world has an Illuminatus who says he talks with the astral spirit of Crowley, dear chap, I fear that you would be tapping me for beer money that night.
 
 
Unconditional Love
12:46 / 17.09.06
Key23 may well be a warmer forum to discuss this line of thinking in, if i remember correctly there is a comic being put together there along similar lines with the involvement of neil gaiman and agent139. Taylor ellwood seems to hang around key23 so you may well get better reception at a place that has room for untraditional practices and an eclectic approach to Magick.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:47 / 17.09.06
And fucking rense.com, what an informed source. I think we need something in the wiki about linking uncritically to racist filthsites run by conspiracy nuts.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:59 / 17.09.06
you may well get better reception at a place that has room for untraditional practices and an eclectic approach to Magick.

Slackula, I really resent that. This place is about as eclectic as you can get and is a haven for 'untraditional' practices. The problem with this topic is not that it's non-tradtional (seriously, dreamwork is a new thing? Come on) but that it's shoddy and poorly thought out. The key word there is practices--you know, as in stuff you do rather than stuff you and your Lj friends-list think sounds cool.
 
 
Unconditional Love
13:53 / 17.09.06
I sometimes get the feeling that barbelith temple has only got room for uber traditional practictioners, its an impression i get sometimes largely from feeling. I think people could well feel alot of hostility, i also have a bee in my bonnet about the cultural appropriation thread which i think may well be very wrong in its magical approach especially with referrence to popular culture, mainly around multiculturalism and multispiritual practice. It seems to actually from a certain view point provoke nationalism, something i would like to see utterly removed from social thinking. But anyway thats for another thread.

I am getting deja vu about this thread, its reminding me of something thats happened before Astral rpg would it be possible to see if its the same characters, cause either i am being paranoid, or something just feels really familiar. I can remember how that all ended and i dont want to repeat that.

As it goes the comments above were made in haste so they are best ignored, apologies.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
13:58 / 17.09.06
Would you care to clarify what you mean by "uber-traditional practitioners?"
 
 
petunia
14:24 / 17.09.06
As it goes the comments above were made in haste so they are best ignored, apologies.

Nah. If you're gonna have hasteful thoughts and don't want people to engage with them, you should probably avoid taking the time out to post them on a discussion board. Don't want people to engage? Don't post.

I sometimes get the feeling that barbelith temple has only got room for uber traditional practictioners, its an impression i get sometimes largely from feeling.

Yes. Maybe you should look at that feeling and see if it's justified. Just have a look around and find something that is 'uber traditional. There are definitely some posters who use more traditional methods to acheive their goals, but so what? I mean, if you think about it, breathing is pretty traditional, isn't it? Maybe even Uber traditional.

You seem to be confusing 'person who uses old traditions from magic/spiritual stuff' with 'person who is unwilling to change their own belief system, because theirs is an old one and they cling to it'. Isn't it just as possible that a person clinging to a non-traditional practice will be unwilling to look at things outside their comfort zones? Isn't it possible that a Matrixmon W4rr!or might be unwilling to accept some ideas from ideas that are outside of their cultural realm?

What's the more 'paradign shifting'; Adhering fervently to a 'system' that relies on terms planted in our current cultural memes, or working with a system from halfway across the world/a few hundred years ago? Just because it's old, doesn't mean it's old news.

It seems to actually from a certain view point provoke nationalism, something i would like to see utterly removed from social thinking. But anyway thats for another thread.

That's an interesting thought (though it seems to miss a lot of the points made in the thread), but yes, it is a point for another thread.

I am getting deja vu about this thread, its reminding me of something thats happened before

I think many of the posters here share that feeling of deja vu. I think this might be why they are a little annoyed at having to go through it again.

...see if its the same characters

What would it prove if it were the same characters? That the same people are still pissed off by the same stuff? That the same people are tired of dealing with sub-standard posting on a board that aims for a high (or at least, though-about) level of discourse? That they've worked long and hard to gain some of the abilities and insights they experience, and it pisses them off to see people who seem to have next-to-no experience of these things writing sub-par fantasies about them?
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:32 / 17.09.06
Sure, i flit from thing to thing and have a very eclectic practice, to me a traditionalist seems to have found there holy grail and sticks with it, i keep thinking i have and then realise to myself, ah thats only a part of the picture cant stop there, i am not saying my approach is in anyway better, it just suits me more. Traditionalists have found a place they belong, a faith even in some instances, better to drop the word uber, perhaps i resent the fact that somebody else can find a path to belong to, perhaps.
I would think that is it, i am probably a little envious because i know from my very nature i will never be fixed, never find one totally meaningful path. It really isnt in my nature. I really feel lucky of late to have discovered for myself the ideas involved in maat magick, which seems so far to encompass the way i am used to working.

I am in a way very jealous, because its not in my nature to settle for any one thing or sense of self, i imagine traditional practitioners get alot more self assurance and stability than i find in my own practice. In a way thats similar to nationalism you have this fixed identity it gives you a sense of belonging to something greater than yourself, religion works from a similar premise and so can tradition.

I have always felt outside no matter how i try to fit, and i have been trying very hard for the last few years, i can see now i will never fit, i will always be outside, its easier to accept that than fuck myself up trying to fit. I relate well to other outsiders, people who purposefully put themselves outside rather than in the community, creating there own community of outsideness (crap expression), i am beginning to understand that while i remain true to my own experiences of life i will never be accepted, i will have to wear a wall of bullshit and lies for that to happen, something i am not going to put on, unless its at the expense of those trying to make me wear it, social institutions etc,

I guess i am jealous of what some people would consider routine and normal, i feel so far removed that it will never be in reach, isolated in a community of isolationism.

I figure if i belonged if i had a tradition i could be a part of something bigger than me, but then i would have to give up my ability to shift and change and be a tricky bastard, my nature wins out in the end.
 
 
Unconditional Love
14:34 / 17.09.06
I get the message.
 
 
ESOZONE : Oct 10 - 12 PDX 2008
16:08 / 17.09.06
Man, I'm starting to get even more confused than I was to begin with, and for that, I must thank you Barbelith.

First of all, I do undestand now that the way in which I started out posting, and the way it was posted, was basically forum abuse. Sorry about that. Lock and ghost it if you are still up in arms about it.

Okay, so if you would allow me to start over, with gained perspective on the whole thing, I'm going to take a crack at what I've been trying to get to.




I suppose delving around in the collective consciousness can be a bit maddening, because I assume that most people would think I'm crazy due to the way I talk about my experiences with it. I don't think I've been giving enough credit to people who arent involved with the occult. Its a simple enough idea that many people understand, but may not agree with.

In this collective arena, I've had a great many type of experience, from the shamanic totem experiences, sexual encounters with people many miles away from me, and meeting up with friends by chance. The first one, I can only prove in that it has given my results that have led to a change in being. The latter two, I've kept correspondences, and at times something uncanny takes place, where they had their own dream experience with me in it the same night, with a very similar subject matter. I've started taking notes on dream environments, some of which I feel exist as hubs of collective consciousness congregation.

After a while, I started to recognize a loose map of different places in the whole world of consciousness. Some places where peaceful places of knowledge, some were bustling airports, seeming to usher in the consciousnesses of beings not of this earth or dimension. Sounds like wacky stuff, and by in large it is, but that doesn't make it false.

Some of these places were full of turmoil and pain, and includes characters who were stuck in a negative pattern that hurt the other people around it, who happened to wander into these bad neighborhoods. I took it upon myself to try my best to right certain wrongs in these experiences, and make the place a bit healthier and happier for everyone to be in. Experiences like these, I can hardly find a way to verify, besides that I can intuit the difference between collective experience and an elaborate fantasy. At times I can, such as when I deal with the minds of people I actually know, but thats honestly the exception. Unless I make it a point to investigate certain individuals, which I haven't done willfully all that much in a while.

So in that context, I dont have a way to find out if those things are real unless I share my experiences in detail, and see if anyone has had the same experience, or has spotted its follow thru into the material realm. After a while, I ran across many other dreamers who were doing basically the same thing I was doing, and we began to work together. Its almost as if we fixing problems in the collective psyche before they can become even bigger problems, which of course, is a bigger problem as well, for the skeptic within me.


Another piece of the puzzle is that I found I could engage with the dreamspace while not asleep. If I knew when a person would most likely be in their REM cycle, and the days in which they would most likely sleep in, I could will myself into their heads. I've done this with an open invitation, and I dropped by unexpected, as planned. For that particular experiment I was able to meditate into sleeping, and found myself in that same space ready to participate.

My problem now is that I haven't set up any of these sort of tests with people, and my other problem is that I can't just drop in to say hello anymore. In those days I had alot of sexual intent to work on, as well as geewhiz magic is cool intentions, and now I am not as interested in that, although I know its probably one of the easier and more fun things to do in this realm.

The focus that has been resonating with me, tweaking that little magic nipple in my mind, has been this Task Force thing. I'm curious to know what would happen if I was able to talk to the dreamers who are on my crazy team with me in person, as well as meetup on the Otherside. Sometimes, I would just be a point man for some people, discovering a bad place, and sending in others to deal with it. Other times I would find myself in a personal dream, and then abruptly pulled into a dreamspace dialog, in conversation with occultists I've only known online, sharing bits of wisdom. Thats why I wanted to wrap this back into The Invisibles, a narrative about a diverse group of powered peoples, while also containing a narrative out the state of their world, as well their sets of personal mythos. I know its a cliche now to say, wow our occult lives are a bit like this comic, but I just feel really interested in finding a way to document a collective narrative between many people, and putting that back into the comic, full circle.

Its just my personal thing perhaps, I feel its really important to write ourselves back into the myth. This is what I suppose the overall point of the matter is, but I don't think that precludes anything else more interesting than that from happening.

I have already been doing so on materially on a personal level, but I want to take it further than I can alone.


As for any proscribed set of practices to meetup, I can't really give a how-to, since thats up to the diverse group of powered peoples to deal with on their own terms if they want to meddle with this. No one is discounted, its just self elected. If you would like to consider what Im talking about here, lets come up with a place to meetup and a place to try and navigate to beyond that.


This post is also going around on an email list, because I already have enough people interested in this. I have also involved Barbelith at this point, so everyone is welcome. So, we have a wider network of people to converse with about these things who speak our language. After all, its an Invisibles party, so Barbelith just has to be there.

Thank You
 
  

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