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Operation Coincidence Driver

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18:45 / 18.03.06

Sam welcome to the project. Now we will simply wait for some more "Yes" posts before we begin on a new experiment. For those of you who are posting things for me to reply to please read my previous thread and understand that I am not trying to be rude here but simply trying to get something done.

I am not going to pay attention to any post unless it simply says "Yes" at which point I will assume that you are offering your help towards a future project per my previous thread and that you are willing to follow the protocol outlined therein. All other comments, questions and replies can be sent to me via PM or another thread.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

18:59 / 18.03.06

Yes, but...

I for one support this project wholeheartedly and I'd love to be involved, but I don't feel happy making a firm commitment until we've thrashed out a feasible and realistic target. It's not really fair to suggest that people should uncritically volunteer their time, energy and resources if they don't know what they're going to be doing. Your post seems to imply that any form of evaluation of the proposed target is going to be unwelcome. Why? What's wrong with taking a serious look at the do-ability and value of our test case?

Is it really cool to ask people for a sort of blank cheque?

ONLY NICE THINGS

20:52 / 18.03.06

I am not going to pay attention to any post unless it simply says "Yes"

Quelle surprise. This is a new and exciting way to deal with the concept of a discussion forum.

21:05 / 18.03.06

You know, at least zoemancer came right out and said it. That's almost like progress.

05:27 / 19.03.06

Mr. Carnival -- you said Yes. Great. Now let me ask you what target would YOU like to suggest? Also what ground rules would you suggest as well.

I am wide open here, any and all suggestions are appreciated. It doesn't have to be done MY way just so long as we DO something and quit debating and analyzing.

Mr. Carnival, please I am all ears....

Unconditional Love

10:23 / 19.03.06

Yes, Id like the target to be me, i want you to recover the poetry in me, so i can engage with life again as if it is a romantic adventure. So lots of romantic adventure type events happening in the life of my movie please.

Many thanks.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

11:00 / 19.03.06

I think we should help a person. Maybe start a thread over in the Convo, invite someone with a serious problem to volunteer for guinea-pig duty. Then we all try to sort it out.

ONLY NICE THINGS

11:52 / 19.03.06

That just happened, didn't it? Undulating Spine has asked for the poetry to come back into his life. Now, Gipsy Lantern would probably try to determine just what he meant by the poetry, why it is missing and start to address practical approaches to deal with it.

This thread could actually turn into a very good example of how not to go about a group exercise. The "I'm raising an army!" "But we're not at - " "LALLALALALALALALAL!" recruitment method has already inspired me.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

11:58 / 19.03.06

I know, I saw the poetry thing, but I didn't know what the hell Spine was on about so I thought I'd wait for him to come back and explain further.

Unconditional Love

14:57 / 19.03.06

Well its that feeling of living a poetic life, and it is a Feeling. you know feelings? right? not really quantitive but a qualitative experience, not exact definitions, often irrational and fall outside logic, much like magic perhaps?
you remenber the magic you were as a child? Rather than all the bullshit education and fuck wittery thats been piled on top? sure you remember.

If the result of the magic is a good feeling and a series of events that make life more enjoyable, you know feeling happy, then to me thats results. I E BEING MORE JOYFUL AND POETIC IN LIFE BY FEELING THAT WAY.

irrational totally undefinable feelings like magic remember. DO YOU?

you know rather than arseholes that like to rip others lives apart because theres are so fucking miserable, you know the kind of fucking c**ts and wankers i am talking about, the pieces of shit that have no joy in them what so ever, so seek to cause suffering in others for there own problems, those fucking shits and c**ts can just go die somewhere, know what i mean?

Maybe ive had a particularly bad week and need just a little happiness and poetry in my life.

Not some c**v c**t riding a motorcycle up and down the park at the back of my flat, and some arsehole company not refunding me £340.00 they owe me.

maybe i just need to feel a little better.
a little less angry and like killing people as poetic expression.

just a little poetry.
you know?

A nice day, rather than toying with a razor, and deciding in a fit of rage this town is full of c**ts and i am gonna move to another town full of c**ts i dont know yet instead.

GIVE ME SOME FUCKING POETRY FOR CHRISTS SAKE!

Unconditional Love

15:00 / 19.03.06

I was so trying to calm myself earlier, you know how you do? ah i will lay on the bed, wile the hours away.

vrooom! vrooooom! die! die!

Unconditional Love

15:00 / 19.03.06

Or perhaps anger management?

Unconditional Love

15:03 / 19.03.06

Actually no, you could do a working to get £340 back from dabs.com for a pc unit i bought, that would really help, and i may actually cool down and stop being an areshole, that should be arse but i think it fits.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:09 / 19.03.06

Spine, those posts are completely out of line. If you need to vent, go to the Convo. And quit using hatespeech, you're not impressing anybody.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

15:29 / 19.03.06

For reference:

Feminism 101

Derogatory class rhetoric

The Temple is not a bloody ghetto, a dumping-ground for things that aren't acceptable anywhere else on the board. I think you should apologise.

Unconditional Love

15:40 / 19.03.06

I quit this place, ive had enough of all of this bullshit, it just isnt doing me any good, i think this place actually makes me worse, so bye bye enjoy yourselves.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

16:00 / 19.03.06

Right, well when you come back in five minutes' time, would you mind explaining:

1) how i want you to recover the poetry in me, so i can engage with life again as if it is a romantic adventure was a fully-formed and workable statement of intent, and

2) how asking you what the hell you were on about was so sickeningly offensive that your only possible recourse was to spit out your dummy and break out the gender slurs?

Kthxbai.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch: any advance on "more poetry in my life"? I quite like the idea of recovering that money from the PC company as a goal, although right now I'll be buggered if I do spell one for this jerkoff. Anyone else?

21:40 / 19.03.06

I gotta say I understand Spine's frustration, even if his expression of it was, ah, a bit over-the-top. Earlier I was going to suggest that the working be to increase the amount of poetry in his life according to his understanding of poetry; of course, that kind of goal is not quantifiable and there's no way to verify whether it worked. Then real life intervened and I had to get away from the board.

*sigh*

I think a new thread should be started for requests for magickal help. The thread we're in now was started with the intent of "proving" or "demonstrating" that magic works. I think one can, for oneself, keep track and see whether action A brings about result B, but I think as you move up to the macrocosm such proofs become entirely subjective. This too, is prolly a discussion for another thread (the Scientific Method applied to Temple thread).

Man, oh man do we have a lot of issues to unpack. It never ends, does it.

21:42 / 19.03.06

I think we should help a person. Maybe start a thread over in the Convo, invite someone with a serious problem to volunteer for guinea-pig duty. Then we all try to sort it out.

Right, will you go ahead and start that thread over in convo Mr. Carnival? I am keen on the idea of directing our intention and magical influence upon helping someone in need.

Good idea Carnival, damn good idea.

23:20 / 19.03.06

I think we should help a person. Maybe start a thread over in the Convo, invite someone with a serious problem to volunteer for guinea-pig duty. Then we all try to sort it out

If we're using this to do good, I want to join in too. Where do I sign?

04:17 / 20.03.06

Yes.
I embrace the idea of helping a person with open arms. Just a few questions though: 1) are there going to be any guidelines set in place?
2)Is there going to be some sort of control to measure results against?

07:50 / 20.03.06

I've got a suggestion, in order to create some level of scientific analysis of this you could choose two volunteers. Both of whom are told that they will be the focus of the working (one Control).

Neither should be told what the intention of the working is.

As some people think that a working needs nothing more but a Barbelith sign-on name to be effective you can refer to the two participants as Subject A and Subject B without lessening the effect.

None of the people performing the working should be aware of the identity of A and B (arguably they shouldn't even know which one the working is targetting, but I'm not sure how you'd achieve this).

Now, how do you suggest the subjects report any effects?

Oh, and Spine? Please feel free to grow up.

10:13 / 20.03.06

I need a new job that I find interesting. Also: while I read over a hundred books a year I have no demanding sex life to speak of. Any help with either of those bits of my life would be much appreaciated. Ta.

11:29 / 20.03.06

Yes, I think we should help someone with their problems.

After all, look how well we've done with the first person we tried!
Ze certainly had problems. We should be proud!

(In truth, I'm more likely just to observe on this one; and anyone crazy enough to be volunteering their life to be *cough* improved by us is beyond our help anyway)

Less searchable M0rd4nt

11:41 / 20.03.06

Right, I've had a PM from someone who's also willing to be a victim--sorry, subject. This is time-sensitive, needing to be dealt with within the next 3 weeks. This person recently went for a job interview and would like to get the job.

Ev. Sci.: I like your model very much. It wouldn't be easy to co-ordinate, but it would certainly be possible. I'd like to see some of these more informal trials go off first though, because although they can't really offer 'proof' even if successful, they could be said to offer corroboration. Also, I like the idea of pushing people towards doing a bit of magical community service now and again.

Unconditional Love

12:23 / 20.03.06

Apologies for the outburst, i am still thinking this place is in no way good for me, i dont like right think, right speech attitudes that are developing, and i oppose censorship in all forms, but especially when it comes to personal expression. Barbelith is fast becoming a place where freedom of speech is an issue, barbelith right think politics i think characterise what this place is becoming very well,(and too a larger extent society at large) which is why i wont be here or there. (your welcome to your chains.)

Again goodbye,
enjoy yourselves however you may find yourselves.

Mark.

Less searchable M0rd4nt

12:40 / 20.03.06

Cheerio then. The fact that your personal expression requires you to jump up and down screaming "c**t!" at your interlocutors puzzles me somewhat, and I regret that the Temple is not going to be an appropriate arena for you if this is the case. However, there are plenty of other fora on the internet where this is not only permitted but lauded as revolutionary!!11!23 behaviour.

Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.

Meanwhile, back at the topic...

12:42 / 20.03.06

How many times have we heard variations of this speech from you? This thread has got two statements like that from you already, but you are still here and probably will be tomorrow as well. Shit or get off the pot, eh. This record is getting old.

You are right. Magic, and this forum, are doing you no good. Leave them both alone and sort your shit out.

15:29 / 20.03.06

I oppose censorship in all forms, but especially when it comes to personal expression.

That's a load of toss. You made a statement using sexist language that upset someone. They were entirely right to call you on it. If you really want to play the mature card, why not just apologise?

ONLY NICE THINGS

15:39 / 20.03.06

Be fair, guys. 23 hours! That's almost a Temple best. Maybe we've already done a little magic here.

15:46 / 20.03.06

I'm still in.

Urm

"Yes"

So it's person X getting their desired job within the next three weeks. It's going to be tough to do blind but sure.

16:25 / 20.03.06

Both of whom are told that they will be the focus of the working (one Control).

Erm. I have an ethical issue to raise here. Are Subjects A and B going to be aware at the outset, or made aware, that they're involved in this little experiment?

In medical studies participants are made aware of the possibility that they may receive a placebo, and they agree to it. JSA.

16:56 / 20.03.06

So it's person X getting their desired job within the next three weeks. It's going to be tough to do blind but sure.

To be honest, I'd say it's extraordinarily difficult to work effective sorcery for someone without a strong physical link. The stronger the better, such as a bit of hair or personal concerns. But I think to try it with no information at all: "Person X is to get a job" is not just difficult but virtually impossible. I certainly wouldn't attempt it with any degree of confidence. You have to at least know the person's name or something.

17:43 / 20.03.06

Gypsy Lantern, I take it from your previous descriptions that at the core of what you do is having a significant amount of information about your subject. Perhaps you could modify the research design to something like this:

You have five people submit their problems and information. You come up with a plan for what you will do for each person and tell them what the plan is (to minimize placebo effect). You carry out the plan for only one person.

You'd want a little bit of demographic info to make sure the subjects are reasonably well matched. It makes sense to me that a person with no openness whatsoever to magic would be a tougher case than a person who has perhaps had some experiences which he attributes to magic. It seems to me that it would be a bit of a waste of time to try it out on somebody who's dug his heels in. I don't know whether physical distance or other factors would come into it as well, but in some case having matched or comparable subjects is more important than having random ones.

What do you think? (This post is meant for everyone, not just Gypsy Lantern.)

18:31 / 20.03.06

I would love to help in principle, but I think the interface will scupper any results. I tried doing Tarot for people but a) the accuracy was drastically reduced b) lots of misunderstanding arises from the textual nature of the communication and c) what's the point? Help people in the real world in your local community, offer to help friends and family, go out and do a good deed. Do we really need an experiment to prove magic works? Is this going to be the one? Won't our efforts reap better rewards if we all go out and help people we have more of a connection with than made-up internet names on a screen?

That said, good luck with it, why the hell not, I hope they get the job. Ignore my wet-blanket carping.

Oh and Again goodbye is going in the Barbequotes, I squeezed out a tear of laughter at that. It's like saying goodbye to someone on a merry-go-round, riding one of those sinister fake ponies while the tinkling music reminds you of The Lost Boys.

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