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Feminism 101

 
  

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Saturn's nod
17:31 / 10.10.07
I think it's a good core feminist question: how do we work with the cultural inheritance we are carrying to both honour our ancestors and also to help build a more just future?
 
 
Ticker
18:08 / 10.10.07
yes I agree with you, apt.

Most of our cultural traditions are based in the desire to protect and help people we care about. Even the more militant not so pleasant traditions can be sourced back to this intent.

I think it is a role of feminism to support the individual's experience including their cherished beneficial heritage, not to homogenize everyone as the critics of multiculturalism fear.
 
 
Papess
16:23 / 22.02.08
This gang in India has been inspiring to a lot of my female friends, and some of my not so female friends.

With all the apathy towards women's issues and issues of poverty, I am not surprised by this reaction. Especially, in India.
 
 
Hallo, Paper Spaceboy
19:25 / 22.02.08
That is amazingly, amazingly awesome. Totally ups my sense of esteem in humanity for the day.
 
 
Triplets
10:27 / 24.02.08
Arse. That article keeps crashing my browser. Can anyone copy and paste it so I can read more than the first two (awesome!) paragraphs?
 
 
Tsuga
11:33 / 24.02.08
Here you go:
Neeta Lal
18 January 2008
“We’re a gang for justice,” says the leader of a crew of sari-wearing vigilantes



Banda, a blip on India’s vast geographic radar, is one of the country’s poorest and most regressive districts. Located in the heart of the populous northern state of Uttar Pradesh, this 3,061 sq km region infested by dacoits, or bandits, invariably makes headlines for all the wrong reasons – drought, starvation, domestic violence, land-grabbing, killings and a thoroughly corrupt administration.

However, lately, blighted Banda has been attracting attention for an entirely different reason. The area’s Pink Gang, about 200 self-styled female Robin Hoods, is taking on dowry deaths, wife beating and even cases of government apathy and corruption, often fighting violence with violence.

A rambunctious and fearless posse recognizable by their pink-colored saris, the Pink Gang is the nemesis of violent husbands and inept government officials. Having personally suffered abuse, members of the vigilante club thrash abusive men, wife beaters and rapists, confront and shame wrongdoers and storm local police stations to accost lackadaisical cops.

Formed in 2006 by Sampat Pal Devi, 45, who was sold into marriage at nine and became a mother at 13, the gang challenges everything that is unfair and unjust, like some gang of desperados for justice on India’s wilder fringe. "Nobody comes to our help in these parts. The officials and the police are corrupt and anti-poor. So sometimes we have to take the law into our own hands. At other times, we prefer to shame the wrongdoers. But we’re not a gang in the usual sense of the term. We’re a gang for justice," Devi told a TV news channel recently.

Fed up with a corrupt system and social discrimination, what finally drove Devi to launch the Pink Gang was the tale of her sister, who was dragged by her hair around a courtyard by her alcoholic husband. This last straw led Devi to “teach erring men a lesson.” She rounded up other women in her neighborhood and confronted the abusive brother-in-law with whatever “weapons” they could muster — walking sticks, iron rods, a child’s cricket bat. He was then chased into a sugarcane field and thrashed by the women.

Sometimes, the gang’s bravado has a happy ending. They restored 11 girls –thrown out of their homes due to dowry demands – to their respective spouses. Usually the gang’s activities range from bashing abusive men who torture their wives for not bearing sons to shaming officials who have profiteered by selling subsidized grain intended for the poor in the black market.

Though the gang believes in arbitration and consensus, it obviously doesn’t flinch from employing stronger measures. Last year, they stormed the local police station to confront cops who refused to take the complaint of a low-caste man against a moneylender simply because of his caste.

Broadly, however, the gang protects the powerless by mustering public support to engineer social change. Last year, Devi even contested the state polls as an independent candidate but could muster only 2,800 votes. Despite being trounced, she isn’t keen to partner with an established NGO. “They invariably ask for kickbacks,” she says.

On the contrary, the Pink Gang prefers to set right things on its own by helping hapless people caught between administrative apathy and a social system steeped in ossified beliefs. Apart from administrative neglect, Banda’s natural resources, which could theoretically provide sustainable livelihoods to its people, are being plundered by a few as the local administration looks the other way, the group says. Many residents are forced to migrate for several months each year in search of work.

Though agriculture and allied activities are the primary source of livelihood for about 80 per cent of Banda’s populace, most farmers subsist on spectacularly low wages –Rs40-50 daily for men and Rs25-30 for women. In some villages, the farmers don’t even get money, only a meager quota of one kg of grain for a day’s labor. The system of bonded labor is rampant too.

Unsurprisingly, Banda’s human development indices for its women are dismal. Female literacy for the region is only 23.9 percent against 50.4 per cent for males, while its skewed sex ratio is 846 females for every 1,000 males against the state average of 879. Domestic violence is common. In other words, the district’s caste-ridden and feudalistic set-up does nothing to empower women.

Banda’s dalits or untouchables, who constitute over 20 per cent of its over 1 million people, are no better off. According to a recent government survey spanning 28 districts of Uttar Pradesh (including Banda), lower-caste students and staff still face open discrimination in education. Dalit children are even forbidden to eat their meals with higher-caste students. The segregation is so widespread that teachers even use separate sticks to discipline Dalits. Due to the stigma of untouchability, Banda’s Dalits are often beaten by higher-caste people on flimsy pretexts.

In such a scenario, sociologists say the only hope for a wronged people are mass movements like the one exemplified by the Pink Gang. And despite the fact that the group doesn’t have an office, its members gather in Devi’s house at regular intervals to discuss fresh cases and their strategy to deal with them. The women are also given training in self-defense by Devi and her trusted lieutenants. Interestingly, a male member joined the club last year.

The emergence of a women’s vigilante group in Banda is a symptom of deeper social ills. “If elected representatives refuse to heed the voices of ordinary citizens,” says New Delhi-based sociologist Dr Prerna Purohit, “then people have no choice but to take the matter in their own hands. It’s a wake-up call for the government in the world’s largest democracy.”
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:21 / 22.01.10
Reviving after a long slumber, but I thought this (rather wrenching) blog post about how a victim of rape feels about rape jokes was really something to read:

Link to blog
 
 
miss wonderstarr
09:01 / 24.01.10
Thanks, that just gave me the balls to call out a rape joke on another forum.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
16:58 / 24.01.10
I'm glad I helped! I think it's a really tricky and complex issue, and that the issue of "triggering" speech is a very complex one - and one that his in various ways been used for good and for evil in the history of ideas. And one problem with living in a culture that pretty consistently trivialises and also externalises rape is that it's hard to get the angle of attack right on these things - and also, of course, that there's a huge investment in the idea that treating rape _conceptually_ as funny is not the same as diminishing the horror of individual rape or not being a good feminist. I mean, there's a joke about Stevie Wonder that just turned up in the jokes thread that is pretty much there to PC-bait, I imagine, but it comes back to a bunch of questions about abstracts, concretes, personal qualities - to what extent is a joke about a particular chap on The Jersey Shore who displays characteristics familiar from offensive depictions of Italian-Americans a joke about race, and so on.

I hadn't thought about it when I posted this link, but I think this ties in with Eek! A Freek!'s link to the 70-minute review of the Phantom Menace, which I saw over the holidays but clearly missed a lot of - I was distracted by other things. I don't know what the rape humour there might be about, or how it is done. It's an interesting study on a number of levels - the narrator of the videos is clearly portraying a character, and a very unpleasant character, beyond the joke of someone spending an hour reviewing a film that came out a decade ago. So, there's the eternal question of what one is really laughing _at_ - the ugliness of the mind of the character being portrayed, or the misogyny o the humour. I dunno. It's complex, but talking and thinking about it are really positive, I think.

Group hug!
 
 
Eek! A Freek!
17:25 / 27.01.10
Y’know, I think that as a somewhat privileged WM I sometimes gloss over all sorts of unpleasantness, being acutely unaware of other peoples discomfort concerning certain subjects. I have to add though, that through interaction in these (and other) boards I have become a bit more sensitive, a bit less of an oblivious psychic bull stumbling through a mental china shop.

I believe that the Schrödinger’s Rapist thread, the links therein, and more recently, this one, has opened my eyes to problems I did not realize were so huge in scope. I had never come across such bleak statistics nor had I ever read such painfully honest stories from rape victims where they exposed their thoughts and fears. Although I cannot properly convey all my thoughts here, I can say that I have since become very introspective and have questioned and criticized myself over past actions as well as try be more aware of what I do now. I tried placing myself in a woman’s perspective and imagined how some things I’ve done in the past could have potentially been threatening. I’ve had long conversations on the subject with my wife, and have probed the thoughts of friends and family. In short, these threads have changed my world-view.

Still, when I posted the movie review in the YouTube thread, I knew that some people may find the “humour” to be potentially triggering, but I posted it anyway, with a warning. I believe that the film’s maker was making a statement about the mental state about someone so obsessed with Star Wars, and may have even done so as a self-mocking reference. To be honest, the narrator is probably trying to come across as a misanthrope in general and perhaps a misogynist in particular, but still: I could not really figure out if he was doing so as a sly statement or because he thought that the idea of an obsessive fanboy with woman issues is funny. He (the character) actually came off more as a serial killer than a rapist, albeit one who most likely targets women.

Like Only Nice Things said: It depends what you laugh at I suppose. In a certain way, I was reminded of the Belgian movie, “Man Bites Dog”, the point being that sometimes you laugh along for all the wrong reasons and thus become complicit. I mean, I didn't think that the bits not concerned with the "Phantom Menace" were funny, but I'm afraid I didn't find them terribly offensive, either: I just shrugged it off as being misguided at best, tasteless at worst.

Upon posting the link I was pounced on immediately by Merely Ducard (welcome back, btw) who hadn’t even watched it. I know why he did this, and I questioned myself if maybe I shouldn’t have posted it in the first place (I have since requested that the post be removed as the potential to offend outweighs the actual film critique, which I thought picked apart the film quite intelligently.) I thought that people would make up their own minds, but maybe by just posting it, I contribute to the trivializing of violence against women. I didn’t think so, but now I’m not so sure.

I do think that thinking and talking about these things is a positive thing, and in a way I am glad I posted it if only to be pointed in the direction of how thoughtless words and actions may be triggering for some.

I thought I was posting a link to something I thought was pretty clever (the critique, not the narrator’s back-story): I wasn’t trying to make light of or ignore the filmmakers potentially disturbing attempt at humour, and if in doing so I have offended, I'm sincerely sorry.
 
 
Quantum
21:21 / 27.01.10
From that blog;

"And if you ever wonder why women are kind of an angry lot sometimes, it’s because every day we walk around consuming popular culture that is quite evidently made by and for somebody who considers us fuck-holes that cry a lot, and not a whole lot else."

Totally.
Awesome.
 
 
Red Concrete
07:09 / 05.02.10
At a risk of being too brief and vague, does anyone have any recommended reading on "lad/ladette-ism"? I'm a bit disappointed in my thoughts about some female acquaintances' behaviour, and I need to explore this a bit more.

Maybe "ladette" is a bit strong - I'm not talking about fighting and drinking binges, rather ogling and objectification (of men). Behaviour that I try to check in myself, is throwing up all sorts of messy feelings when I observe it in women in my peer group, and I want to untangle these thoughts - I'm assuming ab initio that it's my thought process that should be unpacked first. Help?

Some googling of Barbelith didn't throw up any discussions in this area.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
18:53 / 05.02.10
I believe that the reason it hasn't been discussed, and specifically hasn't been discussed in the Feminism thread, RC, is because as you've described it it might be seen as falling under the category of arguments known as "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENS?", in which a problem generally seen as a problem women have (the risk of rape, marital violence not taken seriously by law enforcement etc.) is inverted (men are raped sometimes, sometimes women pretend to have been victims of marital violence to secure advantageous divorces), and the relatively miniscule or incredibly rare issue thus created is demanded (a) to be given at the very least equivalency with the problem as it applies to women and (b) be acknowledged, respected and discussed as a precondition of talking about the problem as it applies to women. In this case, the two are "women are the victims of a desiring gaze that has behind it millennia of control, power and the statement that by placing herself in a public place she is opening herself to leering, propositioning and, at the end of the scale, sexual or physical violence" and "women sometimes ogle men".

That's probably why it hasn't come up very much. But! This may all be a misunderstanding of your concerns! What feelings is it throwing up in you?
 
 
oryx
21:44 / 05.02.10
Red Concrete - you might want to have a look at Female Chauvenist Pigs by Arial Levy. Its not the most sophisticated of critiques, but it addresses some of the issues you mention. Also, just out this month, is Living Dolls: The Return of Sexism by Natasha Walters, which I've not read but which looks quite good.
 
 
Red Concrete
09:38 / 06.02.10
Thanks for the recommendations, oryx.

Only Nice Things, thanks for putting it in context. Indeed the feelings thrown up, or rather the first thoughts that popped into my head were of the "But what about the mens?!" variety, which is why I'm a bit distressed. I'm well aware that this is my problem, and hence I sought some guidance in a Feminism thread - and I don't want to dredge up the topic if it's been specifically avoided, for quite good reasons.

I see that this shouldn't be a discussion about the woman and her intentions from a gender politics angle. In fact, for the sake of the bigger picture of female empowerment, I believe I should grin and bear it (it is relatively trivial, after all) - but I feel like I need more understanding of what's going on. Perhaps the first reading I should be doing is on sexual psychology, rather than feminism.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
14:55 / 03.03.10
Hmm, well you've got me to log in to interact which is few and far between these days. I'm the thread starter btw.

I'm not talking about fighting and drinking binges, rather ogling and objectification (of men). Behaviour that I try to check in myself, is throwing up all sorts of messy feelings when I observe it in women in my peer group, and I want to untangle these thoughts

Primarily what I want to talk about is the fact that you're distinguishing between the behaviour of men and women. The term ladette- any term that criticises or recommends women's behaviour because it is like male behaviour is problematic because the first basis of comparison is to see it through a window of gender privilege. You need to think about that in the context of the way you're viewing this behaviour- not from the persepective of whether you would want to behave that way. The first question is whether you would find it offensive if your male peers behaved in that way. If so then why is the fact that these people are female even significant? Why are you making the element of gender significant?

Incidentally I wouldn't read either of the two books recommended. They're crap. Try One Dimensional Woman by Nina Power instead.
 
 
Anna de Logardiere
15:03 / 03.03.10
... it has problems but they're philosophical rather than problems with the perception of women. I think Levy and Walter both have fundamental problems outside the state of their arguments but I don't want to write a 5000 word essay.
 
 
Red Concrete
19:16 / 03.03.10
Anna, thanks for the post, I've got a lot out of this thread (I think) over the past few years. I did struggle to find any satisfactory reading material since my post - I'll put the Nina Power book on my list.

To answer that question, I do view it as distasteful behaviour in men. I don't engage in it myself and never have - I just have never had the urge to vocalise, or seek peer validation of, my attraction to other people. I have wondered if that's peculiar or not, but I wouldn't assume Barbelith wants to be my shrink.

Why does this behaviour stand out more to me when I observe it in females? I'd like to be able to say that it's not some sort of misplaced outrage that the people I'm trying to 'defend' are behaving just like the people I'm 'defending' them from... But perhaps I actually am suffering from some sort of 'White Knight' complex in my feminist views...?

I don't know if that even makes sense, but I guess I might have a way to go in how I view women, at a deeper level than I had previously thought.
 
 
haus of fraser
10:21 / 04.03.10
Tom is on super-extended leave from Barbelith. That fact causes many of us to have lots and lots of problems with Tom's status as the banninator.
 
 
Haus of Mystery
10:27 / 04.03.10
An interesting point.

My take on it is that Tom is on super-extended leave from Barbelith. That fact causes many of us to have lots and lots of problems with Tom's status as the banninator.
 
 
Haus Of Pain
11:53 / 04.03.10
Already posted about it in the Batman thread, but, hey, this is an archive so I think the forum can handle a second reference.
 
 
haus of fraser
12:50 / 04.03.10
I'm really looking forward to blogging about this. Far too many shite glossy comics on the racks at the mo'
 
 
Haus Of Pain
11:29 / 12.03.10
Unless someone wants to flesh this thread out - and I don't - I'm going to move for a deletion.
 
 
Evil Scientist
09:18 / 06.10.11
(Bump)
 
 
Evil Scientist
15:22 / 25.03.13
Bump
 
 
Evil Scientist
14:59 / 25.04.13
Bump
 
 
Evil Scientist
14:25 / 17.09.13
Anti-Spam bump
 
 
Evil Scientist
10:19 / 02.10.13
Anti-Spam Bump
 
 
Evil Scientist
15:06 / 16.10.13
Increasingly less energetic bump
 
 
kbackroma
09:57 / 15.11.13
none
 
 
Jub
20:42 / 26.11.13
Jesus Christ. Why this bullshit spam?
 
  

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