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Fathers For Justice dress up as Captain America, Batman. Then Get Arrested. [PICS]

 
  

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Tim Tempest
22:09 / 17.10.05



I stumbled on this by accident and found it amusing. The source is from YahooNews and www.groberunfug.de:

-Police Arrest Three Superdads Who Scaled Foreign Office-

LONDON (AFP) - Three members of a fathers' rights group have been placed under arrest on suspicion of criminal damage after scaling the Foreign Office dressed as Batman, Robin and Captain America, police said.

The trio, who prompted a security alert at the heart of government power in London, finally clambered down from a first-floor ledge on the Foreign Office building Monday night where they had been perched for several hours.

They were being held at a central London police station, a spokesman at Scotland Yard said.

The protesters -- from the Fathers 4 Justice group -- had reached the ledge using a ladder mounted at the back of a truck and unfurled a banner declaring: "Access denied. Don't let Labour stop you being a Superdad", a reference to the governing Labour Party and an expected May general election.

Police had been trying to coax the men down from their post above black iron security gates which protect neighboring Downing Street, where the residence of Prime Minister Tony Blair is situated.

-Conclude Article-




I checked some other sources, and apparently these guys are notorious for big stunts like this. I'm sure someone here has mentioned them before, but I had to share this. And their pictures are killer.





These guys are getting people's attention, and I think that this is how you should go about protesting. I get pissed off when people half-ass it, and just sit by traffic lights and picket with these "Honk If You Support Us" homemade signs.

Now, the relevant Act of Parliament, is The Children Act of 1989, which states that the welfare of a child [with divorced parents] is paramount and that the welfare "is best served by maintaining as good a relationship with both parents as possible".

I tip my hat to their methods...although I still have to wonder how they got themselves into a situation where they are not allowed extensive contact with their children.
But, to me, it doesn't look like these guys are 'deadbeat' Dads. Divorced, and deprived of their kids...it's a terrible situation to be put in, and they really do care enough to make a change.

So, from the information that I have seen, I really don't think that these guys are deadbeats. I mean, grown men don't dress up as Batman if they don't care.





By GD.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:16 / 18.10.05
Fathers 4 Justice is generally seen as something of a laughing stock in the UK - their finest hour was probably demonstrating that, if you are a terrrorist, your best bet for getting a clear run into Buckingham Palace is to dress as Batman. Rather an embarrassment for the police. They are not above the use of violence to achieve their aims, also calling in hoax bomb threats and picketing the homes of female judges.

Opening this up, as a Switchboard thread, two planks of the F4J campaign are that the parents of a child should have a straight 50/50 split in responsibility, and that women should be imprisoned if they do not keep to contact orders. These both seem to presuppose a total equality in commitment to and suitability to providing primary childcare that may not be supported by the facts. I'm concerned by their apparent lack of concern over whether or not violence against the partner affects the father's inherent right to look after the their child:

The case of Conrad Campbell is an example of the allegations and counter allegations, bitterness and anger which engulf relationship breakdowns and defy easy solutions. Mr Campbell joined Fathers 4 Justice out of desperation after losing contact with his child. "I went to prison for 84 days last summer just for texting my son because it was his birthday that week," he said. "She [the child's mother] said I was in breach of an injunction because I was trying to keep up contact with my son; that it was harassment and she was in fear of her life and I was sent to jail." He does, however, admit assaulting his partner and being sent on a programme to tackle his anger.

My italics - more here. I'd suggest that there is a big grey area between "superdad" and "deadbeat" - a father might be financially able to support his child, for example, but still not be an ideal provider of a large amount of parental care.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
08:44 / 18.10.05
Oh, and for ten bonus points, can anyone name the costume on the extreme right. Is the guy very geeky indeed or not geeky at all? Has he just grabbed whatever was going, or is this a loving tribute to the Golden Age Doctor Mid-Nite? If so, where's the mask? If not, who?
 
 
Supaglue
09:54 / 18.10.05
Its all gotta do more harm to the kids. I mean, I could just think back to when my mum and dad got divorced, when I was a kid. The thought of the old man on a roof dressed in spandex would have led to me in therapy for some time...

Whilst there is a lot of questionable motives for F4J - and when you delve behind the headlines, there is often far more problems than merely access to the children (I mean, not even new anti-terror legislation can send you to jail for texting your child on their birthday), there does seem to be problems with the whole children, divorce processes:

It is possible for the primary caring parent (and I guess statistically it's going to be the mother) to frustrate court orders for the children's access to the other partner, with little impunity. Alot of the time an acrimonious divorce or split can leave the couple using child access as a weapon. Frustrating court order on access (and I think this was a gripe put forward by one of F4J's more eloquent speakers) is difficult to punish, as no-one wants to send a primary carer of children to jail, and fines and suchlike don't often help what is already a difficult time for all parties financially.

Secondly, unmarried fathers have no rights under the law - unless a parental agreement is signed by the principle carer, allowing parental rights. I can understand there can be reasons for that, but its very prejudicial against fathers.

Thirdly, the dreaded CSA. For marriages that dissolve and the primary carer has to go on benefits and declare who the other parent is to the Child Support Agency(unless there is a good reason, such as a history of marital violence). This also applies to single mothers. If they don't their benefit is curbed. Whilst it might be acceptable to make errant parents pay for their children, in personal experience and hearing the horror stories from the press, it seems that the CSA sets payemnts for non-caring partners very high, in some way, no doubt, to pay for teh institution of the CSA. Again, it is geared to collecting money - a faceless institution with only limited and often expensive forms of appeal. It adds to the couldron of bad feelings when a relationship ends.

I suppose what I'm drivign at is that there are areas where non-primary-child-caring partners in a relationship are left feeling discriminated against and bitter in what is usually already a difficult time. The government often makes itself out to be the proponent of stable familty life, yet the process is still very adversarial when it comes to sorting these problems out.

I dunno how much F4J actually bring thses points to the public forum though...
 
 
Supaglue
09:58 / 18.10.05
And that guy on the right in the second picture has failed miserably to be Robin hasn't he?! He does bear a passing resemblance to Charles Xavier though, which might explain how they all got up there.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
12:42 / 18.10.05
I'm sure I read recently that one of the founders of F4J recently was divorced and lost custody of his SECOND child because he spent more time and energy arsing about being Batman or whichever than he did with THAT child. I can't find the story at the moment, but does this ring any bells with anyone else?

I do agree with supaglue that the system as it stands is overly adversarial... I think it's more a case that the whole thing needs to be re-evaluated, rather than just kept in principle the same but skewed more in favour of the fathers.

I dislike and distrust F4J for many reasons. Mostly, though, its for that fucking "4".
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
12:48 / 18.10.05
The problem is that divorce and custody proceedings will almost always have winners and losers, unless the divorce is an entirely amicable one. For every time 'F4J' complains about a lovely Dad who can't see his children because of the evilbitterbitchqueen of an exwife the example of a wifebeater or a Dad who deliberately bankrupted himself so he couldn't be made to pay child support can be thrown back.
 
 
Supaglue
13:28 / 18.10.05
Trouble is the papers love reporting the horror stories of people abusing the system, which just entrenches everybody.

As do F4J. Only they do it in saggy latex.
 
 
Supersister
17:24 / 18.10.05
The Father's Rights movement in the UK has generated a huge amount of press attention with demands for new legislation creating a presumption of equal division of time between parents. Their objectives are simplistic and they have angered Women's Rights organisations by their adoption of feminist rhetoric and tactless disregard for the historical development of Family Law*.

It's true that the wind was taken out of their sails somewhat by tabloid revelations about founder members having alcohol problems and a history of domestic violence, but they have some very influential and vocal supporters in the media, including Bob Geldof and Channel 4. Their suggestions for law reform are also being taken seriously by the newly appointed President of the Family Division, Lord Potter, who has no previous experience in the field incidentally but is the former pupil master of the Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs, Lord Falconer, whose appointment and job title warrant a separate thread and who was in turn the former pupil master of our beloved Mr Tony Blair. In particular, the demand for legal judgments to be given publicly is already being implemented on a case by case basis and may become universal policy in the near future; a real step backwards IMO. A recent example is the David Blunkett paternity case.

The Children Act does not state that children's welfare is best served by maintaining as good a relationship with both parents as possible btw, although that is a fair summary of the current judicial approach to the matter. The Act sets out a checklist of factors the court has to take into consideration when hearing applications but makes no attempt to define what is in children's best interests, apart from stating that delay in decision making is detrimental.

The real problem, as ever, is the lack of appropriate funding. Current referrals to CAFCASS, the independent agency set up to write court reports in place of the previous system of Court Welfare Officers, take between 12 and 16 weeks to process. During which time, the parties do usually become entrenched and the children almost invariably suffer from the uncertainty. Unless the parents get tired of waiting, see sense and sort things out themselves.


*I register my vested interest here
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:51 / 19.10.05
Does anyone remember F4J ever putting forward their case in a reasoned way, with flip charts and pie-charts? They're good at getting on telly with stunts like this, but after the first time they pulled this I seem to remember Newsnight (IIRC) went to speak to the boss who was a rich idiot who didn't seem to be able to go beyond the idea that full access/custody was his automatic right. Although I don't read all the newspapers every day or watch news telly likewise I don't remember ever seeing them following up stunts with substance.
 
 
pear
09:14 / 19.10.05
CAFCASS would probably get more work done if people stopped sending them fake bombs in the post. I worked in Archway tower upstairs from them for a while and evacuations were a pretty regular occurance. The Archway tavern was always a nice enough place to wait for things to get sorted out though...

Ofsted will take over the inspection of some of their services shortly, which should be fun.
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
07:01 / 20.10.05
Haus asked: Who's the 4th Man?



I want a geek-prize for this.
 
 
quixote
01:26 / 22.10.05
F4J sure do some funny stunts, but if they really want perfectly equal everything in an unequal world, they're full of shit. Granted, a good father and former husband shouldn't be denied access to his kids because his ex is a vindictive whatnot. Other than that though, they need to shut up, and exercise more before slipping into spandex.
 
 
Ganesh
05:43 / 22.10.05
I can't help feeling that at least some of them are likely to be faintly exhibitionistic spandex/lycra fetishists seizing upon an opportunity to wear their under-the-bed/top-of-the-wardrobe 'special' outfits on-camera - in the same way as The Rocky Horror Picture Show affords closet TVs a legitimate reason to glam up in public.

Look for the ones making slightly too much effort...
 
 
Sax
11:29 / 25.10.05
However, if you're an eight year old boy, what mum can compete with an estranged dad who dresses up as the Golden Age Green Lantern?
 
 
Supaglue
13:27 / 25.10.05
Look for the ones making slightly too much effort...



?
 
 
sleazenation
13:35 / 25.10.05
Fighting for fathers' rights, in his satin tights?
 
 
We're The Great Old Ones Now
14:18 / 25.10.05
He reminds me of someone, but I just can't put my finger on it...
 
 
Ganesh
19:47 / 25.10.05
David Davis?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:29 / 14.11.05
Did anyone see the 'Inside Fathers 4 Justice' documentary that was on a few nights ago? Nasty bunch of thugs, by all accounts - anyone really surprised by that? (Well, Oddman, obviously, but...)
 
 
All Acting Regiment
08:07 / 14.11.05
Well, Josef Cannon begs to differ:

TO MARK JORDAN/ Sir Trevor McDonald:
My name is Josef Cannon and I'm a writer/Actor from Hollywood ( LIke Mike, CSI, Sister-Sister, etc etc) and I'm also a member of Fathers-4-Justice. I just finished watching your program entitled:
Dads' Army: Inside Fathers 4 Justice.

Upon viewing it many thoughts went through my head both as a father who is a member of this group and as a member of the entertainment business who understands how "editing" can give a different slant to whatever story we want to tell...


Which surprised me. I didn't realise the organisation had an American branch (if this letter is real, of course).
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
08:14 / 14.11.05
Josef Cannon never met an exclamation mark he didn't like, I see.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
08:21 / 14.11.05
Ah, so it's all okay. The guy's only racist when he's drunk. That's fine then.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
11:52 / 15.11.05
That filmography in full.
 
 
w1rebaby
12:55 / 15.11.05
I did see somebody on another board, who I believe is no longer a member but used to be, very cross about the docco and calling the whole thing a stitch-up. And it is very easy for documentaries to pick targets within an organisation to make the whole lot of them look appalling, though not having seen it myself I couldn't say for sure.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
18:28 / 18.01.06
Fathers 4 Justice disband after claims of extreme elements intending to kidnap Leo Blair.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
20:37 / 18.01.06
Nice to see a group of mature gents with realistic, achievable, well-thought-out goals and a sense of proportion.

If I was a judge, I wouldn't let these people within six miles of their kids or anyone else's.
 
 
Dead Megatron
20:55 / 18.01.06
I kinda feel sorry for the dudes. I mean, emulating childhood archetypes to feel reconected with their kids in theory sounds nice. It's sad and pathetic, but at the same time it has a poetry to it, a "panache" (is this the right word?) that I can relate to.

But it would have been a lot better if they were there for the children from the begining, instead of trying to fix everything at the 11th hour (more like 13th+, actually), of course. In the real world, "super-heroes" don't work..
 
 
Spatula Clarke
21:48 / 18.01.06
In the interests of balance, can I just ask what you're basing that "11th hour" stuff on?

Cheers.

Also want to draw attention to the bit in the linked BBC report that says:

Police sources told the BBC that they were aware of a plan to abduct Leo, but said the plot only got as far as the "chattering stage".

Ex-Scotland Yard dude on telly this morning saying that he could very well believe that what this actually meant was somebody joking about it in the pub.
 
 
w1rebaby
09:14 / 19.01.06
How Santas scheming over a pint sparked Downing St security alert

But the leak's done its job. Nice work, MI5!
 
 
Supaglue
14:06 / 19.01.06
This is hardly reducing the entrenchment....

Highlights:

The government is bringing in a major accountancy firm to track down absent parents after admitting that the Child Support Agency is failing to collect owed maintenance payments.

Deloitte Touche won the contract after figures revealed that absent parents owed £690m in CSA-ordered payments to their offspring.

Ian Kelly, of the UK Men's Group, which opposes the CSA, told BBC Radio 5 Live: "I can't really see what a firm of accountants are doing being involved, probably at great expense.



Deloittes? The same Deloittes & Touche that did various reviews recommending the benefits of PFI and private sector involvement, to the government. I bet they did.

Passing debts on to private debt collectors to aggressively get the money back?
 
 
Dead Megatron
14:44 / 19.01.06
In the interests of balance, can I just ask what you're basing that "11th hour" stuff on?

Well, Randius, I won't remember the proper links now, for it's been a few months since I looked into the subject, but apparently, it is an usual complaint of the mothers of the sons and daughters of the Fs4F that they were not participating in their children lives while they had the chance. Absent fathers, violent fathers, and the such. And it does seem logic to me that judges do not forbid a parent from visting their children without good reason.

That, however, does not keep me from feeling sorry for them. To me, there's no better way to access a person's character (if it's not the only way) is to see how they raise their children. Those Fs4F dudes seem to be aware they fucked up and are trying desperately to fix things. But, when it comes to parenting, a damage done can seldom be undone, and certainly never by some stunt, so they are doomed to fail. And that's a sad thing
 
 
ShadowSax
17:09 / 19.01.06
this whole thing is a shame. the group has disbanded.

re: remarks about deadbeats, not being there, 11th hour stuff, thats all a load of crap, in general. of course you have the bad eggs. but i can say from direct experience that attys for moms routinely and categorically promote false/overblown claims of violence and abuse in order to villify the dad. most absent dads in early stages are not absent by choice.

as far as the kidnapping scheme, i can say that most of the extreme members of f4j dont see their kids anymore, so they have nothing to lose. how can they justify taking blair's son? the UK and US govts routinely kidnap dads' kids every day, for no justifiable reason. at least these extreme members or so called members had a "reason" - retribution. what is the govt's excuse?

the fact that some dads (and some moms) are willingly absent does not mean that the law should be built to those cases and routinely disregard parental rights based on their perception of "most" cases. the law is precisely for all cases. it should be blind to other cases and treat each case on its own merits.

i can say from direct experience that dads will always get less custody time than mom. if both parents are ruled fit, the mom gets more. period. this is patently unfair.

i dont think the kidnapping thing was a good idea, but i also dont think it was a well-evolved idea. i can absolutely see the justification for it, tho i would never condone it. i hate the argument that dads who do these things are not setting good examples for their kids. again, most of these dads never see their kids anyway. but that argument is inherently flawed. they werent removed from their kids lives after climbing buildings. they were removed from their kids lives for having penises. if you think i'm mistaken here, you're wrong and ill-informed. sorry bout ya.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:52 / 19.01.06
if you think i'm mistaken here, you're wrong and ill-informed. sorry bout ya.

This is a great way to ensure that you're treated as someone who is helping to lower the standard of discussion and unable to engage with other viewpoints in an adult manner, ShadowSax.
 
 
ShadowSax
19:28 / 19.01.06
gotcha. actually i thought it best to lower to the standards already presented in this thread.

anyway, just wanted to fend off any disagreements. dont i get the last word?
 
  

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