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What's going on in New Orleans...

 
  

Page: 12(3)45678

 
 
grant
19:18 / 02.09.05
DEAR ARIZONA STOP
NEED DRYNESS STOP
PLS SEND AS MUCH AS YOU CAN ASAP STOP
YRS LA
END
 
 
ibis the being
19:24 / 02.09.05
Jake, I feel exactly as you do. Helpless rage. Are we supposed to be impressed that Bush cut short his precious vacation to go to New Orleans on DAY FIVE? Why was he meeting with Alan Greenspan before meeting with Ray Nagin? Why is he talking about fucking PRICE GOUGING in his first TV appearance when people are STILL DYING down there? Why were funds diverted from improving those levees in a known hurricane zone and put into Iraq? Why did Bush suggest cutting the levee budget even more just weeks ago? Why was FEMA stuffed into the Homeland Security Dept and significantly downsized? Why were troops sent down there with the orders to "shoot to kill?" And why am I still hearing all these New Orleanians on the radio asking over and over WHERE IS THE HELP?

I just love that this administration and Congress, who staunchly defend the right to life of every fetus or vegetative white lady they can find, can sit around with their thumbs up their asses while thousands of Americans die, and die slowly, crying out for help. Fetuses, apparently, are people, but poor black Americans are not - they're lawless criminals, or utterly forgotten. I have the awful feeling that the administration may have quietly used the last four or five days just to get those fucking oil rigs going again and will get around to the black folks when they get around to it.

I want to see the whole administration frog-marched out of the White House over this. I'm so glad that leaders of the Black Caucus are getting on TV to put these douchebags' feet to the fire.
 
 
ibis the being
19:28 / 02.09.05
He can't wave the flag and blame terrorists.

Can't he though? I was pretty sure that's what I was hearing when he said
"I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this, whether it be looting, or price-gouging at the gasoline pump or taking advantage of charitable giving, or insurance fraud," Bush said.
 
 
Phex: Dorset Doom
19:32 / 02.09.05
WARNING: IF YOU HAVE A SINGLE SHRED OF HUMAN COMPASSION LEFT THEN, PLEASE, DO NOT READ THIS AS IT MAY CAUSE INVOLUNTARY RIOTING, ASSASINATION ATTEMPTS AND REVOLUTION.

Bush on CNN just now:

"We got a lot of rebuilding to do.... the good news is and it's hard for some to see it now but out of this chaos is going to come a fantastic gulf coast... out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house -- the guy lost his entire house -- there's going to be fantastic house. I look forward to sitting on the porch."
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
19:37 / 02.09.05
I just love that this administration and Congress, who staunchly defend the right to life of every fetus or vegetative white lady they can find, can sit around with their thumbs up their asses while thousands of Americans die, and die slowly, crying out for help.

Exactly.

Bush is running late, but I'm not moving until I've heard his pathetic excuses. That fucking Condoleezza Rice is supposed to be up first. At least during 9/11, there was immediate aid, if not immediate response when the planes went off-course. There is NO excuse for this. They should run these shits out of office on a rail.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
19:46 / 02.09.05
>>He can't wave the flag and blame terrorists.

>>Can't he though? I was pretty sure that's what I was hearing when he said
"I think there ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this, whether it be looting, or price-gouging at the gasoline pump or taking advantage of charitable giving, or insurance fraud," Bush said.

That shit's not going to fly. He can't blame the hurricane on it's aftereffects. Not even the docile American media or the glassy-eyed public can take much more. MSNBC had a Newsweek reporter on about an hour ago who ripped Bush a new asshole, and the MSNBC interviewer was in agreement. I think we're all still in shock here, but people are going to get more and more pissed.

I can see a real "beginning of the end" thing going on here. Or at least a very convincing possibility of one. They look like assholes right now, and it's obvious to everyone.

In contrast, CNN is covering interviews of some of the chief military officers in the area, and these people look unbelievably competent. I just watched a Captain from the Army Corps of Engineers, and he may not have been able to pronounce all the town's names, but the man had a plan, and they're getting shit done.

Whose fault was it that they just got here today?
 
 
bio k9
20:45 / 02.09.05
Is Bush running for a third term? How is any of this going to hurt him?

Who wants to bet the administration uses this to renew its push for drilling in the ANWR?
 
 
bio k9
20:46 / 02.09.05
(Other than Jake who mentioned it on the first page)
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
20:59 / 02.09.05
Yeah, I think I mentioned that, and I still think that is the plan.

How is it going to hurt him? He needs support from the House and the Senate, and, last time I checked, a lot of those guys were running for reelection in 2006, and they might not want to be associated with someone who's been publicly discredited. Thus, they may not want to stand with him on important issues.
 
 
Mazarine
21:24 / 02.09.05
It's very depressing to see that picture of W flanked by his dad and Clinton, both of whom are just looking at him with this expression of barely veiled disgust.

My god, what a coward this president is. He fights and fights for all these special powers, but when the citizens of his fucking country need him, he's paralyzed. Of course, they're not part of "his" country, are they? Not unless they drive hummers and donated to his campaign.
 
 
sleazenation
22:11 / 02.09.05
Notice that G. W. Bush didn't have the balls to go to N.O. Only to Biloxi...
 
 
Cherielabombe
22:25 / 02.09.05
I want to see the whole administration frog-marched out of the White House over this.

I do think this is the thing that will get Bush's ass handed to him, and that is the one of the only good thing that will come out of this. I don't see how you can recover from all of America watching other Americans left to slowly die on a curb in America - in one of America's biggest cities.
 
 
bio k9
23:21 / 02.09.05
Yeah, right. Just like 9/11 made the US rethink foreign policy.

Kathleen Blanco is going to be the fall guy here. Its already started.
 
 
grant
00:11 / 03.09.05
sleaze: W was just in NO. He went to Biloxi first, but that picture linked upthread of Nagin wanting to rip his throat out -- that was in New Orleans.

It's important to realize, also, that the devastation reaches from Oceanside, AL to areas west of New Orleans. There are stretches of Mississippi (the poorest state in the union) that were simply wiped clean. No more houses.

Biloxi, by the way, is Mississippi's prime source of income. It's where all the gambling boats are. Were.

Like so. And so.

The hurricane damage could cost Mississippi some $400,000 to $500,000 a day in lost gambling taxes. Last year, the state’s casinos generated $2.7 billion in revenue.

On NPR, they had a woman weeping about people she was seeing in Mississippi shelters. One man had stepped on a nail during or just after the storm. Gangrene was setting in. No medical supplies.

That's... bad.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
00:44 / 03.09.05
Bio K9- How can you compare the two? 9-11 generated a fervor of patriotism and a "with-us-or-against-us" mentality that Bush and the neocons capitalized on, and used to justify every horrible thing they did.

There's no scapegoat here, and that was a large part of my point. Bush has no Bin Laden boogieman to hide behind. It was his shiny new disaster/terrorist apocalypse agency (and I'd like to take this time to say that I find the term "Homeland Security" deeply creepy) that failed utterly to respond effectively in a timely matter. it was his war that kept huge numbers of Guardsmen thousands of miles away from where they were really needed, and his lying ass that showed up to Louisiana four days late, mouthing bullshit platitudes. He looks like hell on this one.

You know how the political "geniuses" are always crowing about how the guy who looks strong but is wrong will always beat the guy who looks weak but is right?

Bush looks weak and wrong right now.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
01:18 / 03.09.05
I've just seen the speech he gave before he left New Orleans. The shit was smiling. I know he doesn't live beyond the parameters of his own mind but jeeeeeezzzus. I'm in England and I seem to have more clue about what's going on than a man who's actually seen what's happened.
 
 
bio k9
01:38 / 03.09.05
The connection* (in my head, I know it isn't on the screen) is that this isn't the first time the Bush whitehouse has looked like its in for trouble. Sure, its a much grander scale, more immediate and in your face but from the bullshit reasons for the war in Iraq to Valerie Plame to God knows how many other things over the last 5 years- nothing sticks. Fox news is already pushing the blame on the residents for staying and the governor for not making the proper calls in a timely manner. Its bullshit but Hastert was on CNN earlier spouting the same lines to Anderson Cooper. And FEMA says everyone is doing a fantastic job despite all the evidence to the contrary. Its the media equivalent of chanting "four more years" over protesters at the RNC. Its sad but its been working for the administration so far and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Maybe I'm a pessimist.

Maybe. But I've already heard callers on the local public radio shows asking the hosts to "tone down the partisan rhetoric about whos to blame" and one guy actually blamed bin Laden for forcing our troops overseas.



*When 9/11 happened a lot of people on Barbelith thought the US would rethink the way it handles foreign policy, I thought we were going to drop the bomb on somebody. Everyone seems to be saying this is it for Bush, I think its just another bump in the road, unfortunately.

I'm kinda wiped out, sorry if I'm not making much sense.
 
 
Aertho
01:43 / 03.09.05
I'm with Bio K9. I doubt Bush will be held subject to any of this outrage. The lady governor will get the brunt of this. Silly women shoulda stayed in the kitchen, this is a warzone, and a Man had to step in to take care of business.

They expected her to be "Inspiring".

I doubt Bush will feel the fallout.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
02:23 / 03.09.05
I couldn't disagree more.

BioK9- You reference the Plame case and the Iraq war. Plame was small change compared to this. Seriously, that comparison is totally ridiculous. You're comparing the outing of a CIA agent to the deaths of thousands of Americans. Try again. Iraq? It's been irrevocably tied to the "War on Terror." Please try to tie a hurricane to Osama Bin Laden. Not even the most moronic shitkicker would make that connection.

This is big doings, people. I may be wrong, but the Bush nutsack is on the grill like it's never been before.
 
 
Aertho
03:02 / 03.09.05
Yeah, but it's an act of God. The Utah contingent will see this as an unfortunate circumstance.

It's only the blue states that will do the math.

The red states won't sway unless the economy tanks. It'll get bad, but not bad enough to blame him from the red pulpit. And with not-drilling-in-ANWR being a blue issue, he'll keep this all us vs. them.
 
 
Jake, Colossus of Clout
03:17 / 03.09.05
No way.

Not every red state is as fundamentalist as Utah. You're simplifying things. This has a good chance of solidifying the South against Bush. This isn't only godless N'Orleans. After all, it's hundreds of miles of ultra-Christian, Southern coastline on either side. No Sodom and Gomorrah, that.

You're buying into the Red state-Blue state dichotomy, which is total bullshit. Just wait. I, personally, believe that Bush stole the last election (as well as 2000), and even if that wasn't the case, it was a 51/49 split. Wouldn't take much to tip that, would it?

I can't believe the amount of defeatism I've read recently. Fucksake, y'all! He's just a shady asshole with connections, and now he's on the ropes! Stop being such a buch of naysayers!
 
 
Aertho
03:38 / 03.09.05
Maybe I am still seeing things that way, but I think the point you're missing is that people want it that simple. Especially the media.

All they need is a good hour of footage of armed forces doing rescue work in knee deep water, and they got all the proof they need that the military was there, in full force. That's what's happening. The truth won't be heard.
 
 
bio k9
04:04 / 03.09.05
I've never seen much of Shepard Smith but I hope he finds a job with a real network.

Fox News Video
 
 
Cherielabombe
06:16 / 03.09.05
I don't know, Bio. I think the difference between Valerie Plame and Weapons of Mass Destruction et. al and the situaataion in New Orleans and the gulf coast is that the other scandals in the Bush administration are, I guess more abstract and more intellectual and thus less interesting to Joe Average on the street.

With the current situation we have some pretty striking and heartbreaking images that I don't think the American people will be able to forget or ignore too easily. Worse, these people have been sitting there for days, which goes contrary to everything we've been led to expect of the U.S. government. And it is happening on W's watch.

It seems inevitable the people will think, 'Surely the department designed to handle terrorist attacks would have thought through what to do in the event an American city became uninhabitable?'and begin to connect the dots and start to wonder just what it is W's wonderful agency is actually doing.

And let's talk about gas prices. $3, $4, $5, $6 a gallon? Americans are not gonna go for that. I really believe most people don't care too much about politics until it personally affects them, and paying that much for gas will affect (and piss off) a LOT of people.

W's reaction just looks pathetic. You can't spin your way out of this. His grandly surveying the damage from Air Force One a few days after Katrina was one of the worst things he could have done - and yes I realize he's now been out there 'with the sleeves of his shirts rolled up' but he really did look like an arrogant leader completely removed from his people in that footage of him looking out the window.

The media who have been out there on the ground I think have been so horrified by what they've seen that some of them seemed to have been shocked into actually asking some difficult questions. I've seen reporters I thought only knew how to ask softball, pre-approved questions rake administration over the coals in the past few days. (Soledad O'Brien, we hardly knew ye!)

This is so much bigger than any of W's previous problems, I just really can't see how he can recover from this.
 
 
bio k9
06:23 / 03.09.05
I guess we'll see what the lives of thousands of poor black people are worth in the political arena. I'm betting its less than the price of gas.
 
 
Ganesh
08:33 / 03.09.05
I'm kinda with Chad and BioK9 here. While I'd love to believe this might serve to ignite some significant popular anti-Bush feeling (or even some proper, sustained criticism from the US press), I'm pessimistic. Just heard some of the New Orleans refugees interviewed on R4, in what was, I think, meant to be a people-pissed-off-with-Bush piece, and the sentiments expressed were surprisingly mild. Although framed as 'savage criticism', the interviewees themselves were disconcertingly forgiving, in a 'oh well, it's good that they're finally getting around to us' way.
 
 
Jack Fear
12:27 / 03.09.05
The evacuees may be forgiven for feeling grateful, but man, is the press ever pissed off.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
12:59 / 03.09.05
It'll be gas prices indeed that seal the deal. This is the first time in a very very long time that something clearly awful on television has crept into the American day-to-day. Bush cleverly already laid the groundwork by mentioning price gouging immediately, as if to say "Well, when you go to the pump, it might not be my fault you're paying so much, but rather that shady looking gentleman behind the bullet proof glass."

But I don't think that's going to get him off the hook.
 
 
alas
13:31 / 03.09.05
I'm going to recopy Maureen Dowd's "UNITED STATES OF SHAME" editorial from today, because of the annoying NYTimes registration/pay policies. It sums up my thoughts pretty well, despite her occasional cutesiness:

Stuff happens.

And when you combine limited government with incompetent government, lethal stuff happens.

America is once more plunged into a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, marauding thugs, suffering innocents, a shattered infrastructure, a gutted police force, insufficient troop levels and criminally negligent government planning. But this time it's happening in America.

W. drove his budget-cutting Chevy to the levee, and it wasn't dry. Bye, bye, American lives. "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," he told Diane Sawyer.

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in Hell yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins. He was clearly moved. "You know, I'm going to fly out of here in a minute," he said on the runway at the New Orleans International Airport, "but I want you to know that I'm not going to forget what I've seen." Out of the cameras' range, and avoided by W., was a convoy of thousands of sick and dying people, some sprawled on the floor or dumped on baggage carousels at a makeshift M*A*S*H unit inside the terminal.

Why does this self-styled "can do" president always lapse into such lame "who could have known?" excuses.

Who on earth could have known that Osama bin Laden wanted to attack us by flying planes into buildings? Any official who bothered to read the trellis of pre-9/11 intelligence briefs.

Who on earth could have known that an American invasion of Iraq would spawn a brutal insurgency, terrorist recruiting boom and possible civil war? Any official who bothered to read the C.I.A.'s prewar reports.

Who on earth could have known that New Orleans's sinking levees were at risk from a strong hurricane? Anybody who bothered to read the endless warnings over the years about the Big Easy's uneasy fishbowl.

In June 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, fretted to The Times-Picayune in New Orleans: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

Not only was the money depleted by the Bush folly in Iraq; 30 percent of the National Guard and about half its equipment are in Iraq.

Ron Fournier of The Associated Press reported that the Army Corps of Engineers asked for $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans last year. The White House carved it to about $40 million. But President Bush and Congress agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-filled highway bill with 6,000 pet projects, including a $231 million bridge for a small, uninhabited Alaskan island.

Just last year, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials practiced how they would respond to a fake hurricane that caused floods and stranded New Orleans residents. Imagine the feeble FEMA's response to Katrina if they had not prepared.

Michael Brown, the blithering idiot in charge of FEMA - a job he trained for by running something called the International Arabian Horse Association - admitted he didn't know until Thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center.

Was he sacked instantly? No, our tone-deaf president hailed him in Mobile, Ala., yesterday: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

It would be one thing if President Bush and his inner circle - Dick Cheney was vacationing in Wyoming; Condi Rice was shoe shopping at Ferragamo's on Fifth Avenue and attended "Spamalot" before bloggers chased her back to Washington; and Andy Card was off in Maine - lacked empathy but could get the job done. But it is a chilling lack of empathy combined with a stunning lack of efficiency that could make this administration implode.

When the president and vice president rashly shook off our allies and our respect for international law to pursue a war built on lies, when they sanctioned torture, they shook the faith of the world in American ideals.

When they were deaf for so long to the horrific misery and cries for help of the victims in New Orleans - most of them poor and black, like those stuck at the back of the evacuation line yesterday while 700 guests and employees of the Hyatt Hotel were bused out first - they shook the faith of all Americans in American ideals. And made us ashamed.

Who are we if we can't take care of our own?
 
 
grant
13:33 / 03.09.05
Did you hear Linda freakin' milquetoast Wertheimer this morning? NPR is doomed, I think. I mean, there's no way they're going to get ANY funding after the anchor does one of her only editorials, and says the stuff she said about the gummint.

I realize NPR ain't necessarily mainstream media in this country, but still. She must've repeated the phrase "failure of leadership" at least five times in three minutes.

The audio will come online at 1p.m. Eastern...
 
 
grant
13:55 / 03.09.05
Got an extra room?

HurricaneHousing.org
 
 
scaramouche
15:14 / 03.09.05
I grew up in the Gulf Coast, and the rumors I've been reading--that New Orleans may be a "lost cause"--just fills me with dread. I still remember the first time, in the early 80's, drinking coffee--real coffee, as opposed to the freeze dried powder I had grown up with--and eating brioche in a New Orleans cafe. I remember the great goth scene in NOLA in the 80's. I remember travelling from generic american carboard florida suburb #27a to this PLACE with its history of pirates, creole gentlemen gambling, storyville and the birth of jazz, the battle of new orleans, marie leveau healing the poor, marigny where the wealthy installed their mistresses, breakfast at brennans (!!!) . . . I just can't believe my country is letting one of the few sites of real culture and history and heart on this continent disentegrate.
 
 
ibis the being
16:04 / 03.09.05
It's only the blue states that will do the math.

The red states won't sway unless the economy tanks.


Dude, I'm sorry but I think you're missing the seriousness of this catastrophe and the fact that it is a palpable tragedy in the South. For Pete's sake, it happened IN the red states! I understand the basis for being cynical in America, but you can take it too far - you're reminding me of my friend who bitterly predicted on 9/11, "this won't even be in the media in a few weeks." This is a HUGE tragedy, and maybe it still feels somewhat faraway to us Northerners, but everyone south of the Carolinas is quite directly affected.

As far as this idea that it doesn't matter whether it affects Bush because it's his last term... for those of us who want to see him go down for this, it's not about a political victory, it's about justice.
 
 
*
16:46 / 03.09.05
Some people are quite angry, and are being loud about it.

I wonder if anyone can authenticate this quote from the mayor of NO for me as I found it on a messageboard?

"I am goddamned pissed. What the hell is that man in Washington doing? The only damned thing that man in the White House has done in this whole crisis is sending one great general down here who told people to get their damned asses in gear and stop screwing around. This is goddamned crazy. I got thousands of people down here who are starving and these jerks in Washington are sitting in their damned air conditioned offices and saying look at those poor black people, screw em. The (BLEEP) from FEMA is about as useful as fleas on a dog. That man needs to go work somewhere else. Homeland Security should be called White Homeland Security because they don't care about our people."

"Where the hell is FEMA. Where the hell are the busses? Every goddamned Greyhound bus in the country should be driving to New Orleans. And this (BLEEP) Hastert should just shut his mouth. Who the hell is this jerk to sit on his ass and tell the people of New Orleans that ... well, why should we rebuild New Orleans. If his lily white country club friends were in peril, you'd bet your ass they'd have their butts in gear. But no. These jerks are doing TV interviews and spinning and mugging for the cameras. Bush goes on TV, like he cares about us poor folk down here, and says he's doing all he can. Like accepting some guitar from some country singer while our people are drowning. I'm surprised he quit his brush clearing."

"I'll tell you what. If it wasn't for CNN and the other media, we'd all be dead. There are more reporters down here than FEMA. I'd give that Jeanne Meserve woman a damn medal because she's done more for our people than damned FEMA. We need the army. We need the generals. We don't need more stupid politicians coming down here to make speeches. Don't come here unless you got troops or help with you. We don't want you here."


Parts of it are cited in the CNN has an interview and twelve minutes of video of more of Nagin's fury. He's not entirely unconnected himself, and I bet he has a lot of sympathy from other Southern politicians right now.

But by itself this doesn't sound the death knoll of anything. Most people will feel like it's too disruptive to impeach Bush over this gross incompetence, when we can just wait him out. And how many people at the end of this mess will think and vote as if another Neo-Conservative will do a better job than Bush?

Libs, Dems, and progressives of all stripes need to show that we can do a better job— that it does make a difference to have a politician in office whose ideology is not built on abandoning the poor to coddle the rich.
 
 
Cherielabombe
17:07 / 03.09.05
What you have quoted is similar in tone but not what Ray Nagin said. Here is the transcript of that interview. But I will paste part of it as it's one of those NY Times Jobbies:



MAYOR RAY NAGIN: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect.


You know the reason why the looters got out of control? Because we had most of our resources saving people, thousands of people that were stuck in attics, man, old ladies. ... You pull off the doggone ventilator vent and you look down there and they're standing in there in water up to their freaking necks.

And they don't have a clue what's going on down here. They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn -- excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed.


WWL: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?

NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."

Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.

And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.

They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.

WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.

I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.

It's awful down here, man.
 
  

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