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What's going on in New Orleans...

 
  

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Ganesh
21:56 / 05.09.05
Fox News is trying to shift the blame onto the mayor for not having an evacuation plan. I want to punch something.

You and Mary Landrieu both.
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
21:59 / 05.09.05
Although actually, to clarify: is that a legitimate criticism of him? I was under the impression that evacuations were FEMA's department. Fox was waving around an aerial photo of several hundred buses in a parking lot that apparently should have been used in the evacuation. Anybody know what the deal with that is?

Whether or not this is actually a legit criticism, the whole tone of the report (actually a roundtable with some people) made me want to reach into my tv and rip their faces off. (Though they did sort of grudgingly acknowledge that Bush's response probably wasn't quite what it should have been).

Sorry. Still haven't quite got myself sorted out about this.
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
22:03 / 05.09.05
And by 'apparently should have been used in the evacuation' I of course mean 'that Fox news says should have been used in the evacuation.'
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
22:15 / 05.09.05
Update: my impression that this was FEMA's particular responsibility and fuck-up has been confirmed. Okay, I'll stop now.
 
 
ibis the being
00:18 / 06.09.05
The local news (Boston) showed a press conference with Governor Mitt Romney this evening. About 2,000 evacuees are being moved to the Otis Air Force base here in Mass, and they're looking for volunteers to put in 5-day stints in various capacities at the base. I don't think I can do it this month, but I'm hoping early October to get down there. They're estimating they'll be there until March. I would love to be able to help in some truly useful way. Any other Barbeloids nearby, they need people who can put in at least 5 consecutive days, for tasks including cooking, child care, teaching, pet care, etc.
 
 
Aertho
00:28 / 06.09.05
On the relocation:

Jesse Jacksons talking to that Lou Dobbs about how the feds want to move NOLA residents to Utah and Montana. Ten says there's several bases in LA itself, and isn't it smarter to keep them close to home?

I can understand MA and TX, as they're both rich and populace enough to handle a few thousand needy families, but UTAH and MONTANA? Seriously, how is that a good idea?
 
 
bio k9
02:02 / 06.09.05
Well, they could both use more black people.
 
 
sleazenation
06:28 / 06.09.05
Maybe the idea is if they were too poor to move away they will be too poor to move back...
 
 
Cherielabombe
06:42 / 06.09.05
As if the AP wasn't in enough trouble for 'looting' versus 'finding', in their article about how poor many of the people affected by the storm were, they've um, perhaps unwisely chosen the title, Storm Victims Unlike Most Americans"

I guess the idea is the rest of America can be grateful they are not as poor and have a car (and thus, better?)
 
 
Cherielabombe
06:58 / 06.09.05
And can I just say that, in a way I am so glad this has exposed the massive divide between the haves and the have-nots in the U.S.? Back when I was still in Chicago, I used to work for a charity that did a lot educational stuff for lower-income families, and I have seen some pretty desperate faces of poverty. The U.S. is one of the richest nations in the world, but poor Americans really suffer. It got worse under Clinton, when congress 'reformed' welfare, and worse still under W.

It would be great if this whole situation caused people to want to try and help these people by really reforming welfare to help these people have easier lives.

But then, I was optimistic after 9-11 that perhaps the U.S. would become more empathetic to countries that have suffered terrorism and other forms of violence, and I see how well that worked out.
 
 
sleazenation
15:00 / 06.09.05
Bush to lead Katrina Inquiry...

I'm kind of speechless.
 
 
sleazenation
15:04 / 06.09.05
On one level - it shows how much it is hurting the Bush administration that he has bowed to pressure to hold an inquiry so soon...

On the other - he seems to have gone one better than Blair on the 'selecte a sympathetic inquisitor' front by choosing... himself to lead it...

Conflict of interest anyone?
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
15:25 / 06.09.05
Well yes, but is a clever way of appearing to take action and responsibility while actually shifting all the responsibility elsewhere... whichever of his advisors thought of it should be given a pay rise/clapped in a dustbin and sent to Mars. It will be easy for Bush admin sympathisers to portray this in a very favourable light.
 
 
ibis the being
15:34 / 06.09.05
Conflict of interest anyone?

I almost kind of find it fucking hilarious. "You say you want an inquiry into whether I did a bad job? I agree! In fact I will PERSONALLY investigate into whether I did a bad job, and get that report to you ASAP!" One of the first things he said about his neat little inquiry is that right now - already on it, folks! - he's got Dick Cheney down there talking to Chertoff. I'm sure those two will totally rock an investigation into whether they did a bad job. Seriously, this administration has reached heights of absurdity I never before thought possible.
 
 
Chiropteran
16:41 / 06.09.05
"Bush to lead Katrina Inquiry..."

File under: Not Quite What We Had In Mind
 
 
Aertho
16:50 / 06.09.05
"Bush to lead Katrina Inquiry..."

File under: Not Quite What We Had In Mind


What happened to Bill and Hillary?
 
 
---
17:04 / 06.09.05
That's just unreal, he's leading it himself. I'm shocked, but at this stage I really shouldn't be.
 
 
P. Horus Rhacoid
17:25 / 06.09.05
Wow, I feel like I'm in an episode of the twilight zone, and I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I think my head might explode.
 
 
sleazenation
17:40 / 06.09.05
But you know, he has all this free time - all those vacations - it's not like he's meant to be doing anything else...
 
 
+#'s, - names
17:56 / 06.09.05
there is a new girl here in my office now
she came from our office in NOLA, her sister lives here in cleveland
i can't even imagine, your city is destroyed, and within a week you are doing your job on the other side of the country. amazing. not sure how i would be able to cope.
 
 
bio k9
19:35 / 06.09.05
Maybe Bush just wants to show that he really does care about black people.
 
 
subcultureofone
19:57 / 06.09.05
my first thought when i saw montata and utah was ‘reservation’. when new orleans is rebuilt, poorer areas like the ninth ward will be auctioned off to the highest bidder and the proceeds divided among those who can prove they have a claim. and they’ll be allowed to continue living on their african-american reservation. considering eminent domain now allows the government to take non-condemned, non-flkooded homes as long as it’s for development, it really should be no problem. then they can build cajun disneyland.
 
 
w1rebaby
20:58 / 06.09.05
considering eminent domain now allows the government to take non-condemned, non-flkooded homes as long as it’s for development, it really should be no problem

That was one of my first thoughts, and I am 100% sure it will take place. There will be "redevelopment" and compulsory purchases and those who were living there will be in another state and ridden with debt anyway, in no position to challenge it.
 
 
alejandrodelloco
21:22 / 06.09.05
my first thought when i saw montata and utah was ‘reservation’. when new orleans is rebuilt, poorer areas like the ninth ward will be auctioned off to the highest bidder and the proceeds divided among those who can prove they have a claim. and they’ll be allowed to continue living on their african-american reservation. considering eminent domain now allows the government to take non-condemned, non-flkooded homes as long as it’s for development, it really should be no problem. then they can build cajun disneyland.

It's quite possible that the rebuilt NOLA will be an ultra-gentrified museum of black history, only without the black people, since they will be too poor to return. This sickens me so much.
 
 
Slim
22:23 / 06.09.05
My assumption is that NOLA residents won't be staying somewhere else in Louisiana because all of the state's manpower will be diverted to clearing up the mess. Relocation zones may have been picked due to low costs as well.
 
 
Aertho
22:33 / 06.09.05
That's a fair point. Thanks Slim. I plan to volunteer at the local relocation zone. If they'd stayed near NOLA, I'd be stuck not doing much. Hopefully others will contribute similarly.
 
 
ibis the being
01:34 / 07.09.05
Saw this on another message board, and I thought I'd pass it on - just so you know what the Righty, Pro-Bushy spin is going to be....

9/6/05 - A Special Edition of NewsMax's "Left Coast Report" -- An excerpt from James Hirsen's "Left Coast Report" follows:

"While discussion is warranted to determine whether 72 hours is a reasonable time for a federal response to a crisis of this proportion, for some opportunists appropriate analysis gave way to political sniping.

Truth Be Told
A few facts are in order:

--President Bush declared Louisiana a disaster area two days before the hurricane struck the New Orleans area.

--President Bush urged New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco to order the mandatory evacuation that was issued on Sunday, August 28.

--First responders to a disaster are always state and local emergency agencies. FEMA is there to supplement the state and local activities.

--The hurricane threatened an area as large as 90,000 square miles covering three states. Immediate relief could not possibly have been delivered to all the places that required attention.

--An AP photo showed a large fleet of New Orleans buses soaking in six feet of water. The mayor apparently had the means to evacuate many of the folks who ended up stranded at the Superdome and the convention center.

--FEMA began its activities immediately, not expecting the magnitude of the flooding, the non-response at the city and state level, and the anarchy that resulted.

--The local and state governments had rehearsed for a different scenario. Disaster drills in New Orleans had taken place, but with a false assumption that the levees would hold.

--Both the law and protocol prohibit the president from ordering military troops into a state without a formal request to do so from the governor of the affected state."
 
 
Aertho
01:37 / 07.09.05
Sunuvabitch.
 
 
electric monk
02:43 / 07.09.05
To paraphrase John Stewart from tonight's 'Daily Show', this is Bush's Lewinsky.
 
 
Mazarine
04:09 / 07.09.05
Bush to lead Katrina Inquiry...

I'm kind of speechless.


Indeed. The man who can't find a pair of matching socks with out ringing his dad is going to find out what went wrong.
 
 
Loomis
07:41 / 07.09.05
Spot the difference if you can:

Bush to lead enquiry into Katrina response.

Mugabe to lead enquiry into election fraud in Zimbabwe.
 
 
Cherielabombe
08:02 / 07.09.05
Truth Be Told
A few facts are in order:

--President Bush declared Louisiana a disaster area two days before the hurricane struck the New Orleans area.

He did this because the governor of Louisiana asked him to do so.

--President Bush urged New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco to order the mandatory evacuation that was issued on Sunday, August 28. I would be interested in finding where this person found the information that says Bush urged the evacuation. All of my google searching indicates that Mayor Naygin ordered the evacauation, and non of them mention anything like 'at Bush's urging.'

--First responders to a disaster are always state and local emergency agencies. FEMA is there to supplement the state and local activities.

While this is true, FEMA's job is to respond to FEDERAL emergencies. I think it's quite clear that the destruction of a whole city is a federal emergency. Additionally, once a state of emergency is declared in a city or state, which it was by the governor of Louisiana 3 days before Katrina struck (see above), the emergency response is the responsibility of the federal government. From wikipedia: Federal

A federal emergency declaration allows the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to exercise its power to deal with emergency situations; federal assistance also become available to areas that are declared to be in a state of emergency. For FEMA, emergency declarations are different from the more common disaster declarations done for hurricanes and floods.


So, whose responsibility is it then?

--The hurricane threatened an area as large as 90,000 square miles covering three states. Immediate relief could not possibly have been delivered to all the places that required attention.

I'm sorry, but what is FEMA's job? To respond to emergencies! If there is any organization that should be ready for an unprecedented catastrophe, it is the organization that is designed to deal with catastrophes. The United States is much, much larger than the affected area; FEMA should have been prepared to deal with an emergency that affected people from coast-to-coast. It makes logical sense, no?

--An AP photo showed a large fleet of New Orleans buses soaking in six feet of water. The mayor apparently had the means to evacuate many of the folks who ended up stranded at the Superdome and the convention center.

I do think the mayor could have handled things a bit better in terms of having a plan to evacuate those without the means to get out on their own. That said, this disaster was quite clearly larger than what a local government could handle on its own. Again, that is why the state of emergency was declared!

--FEMA began its activities immediately, not expecting the magnitude of the flooding, the non-response at the city and state level, and the anarchy that resulted.

Again, if any organization in America should have been prepared for the flooding, the inability of the municipal and state governments to adequately repsond, it should have been FEMA!!

--The local and state governments had rehearsed for a different scenario. Disaster drills in New Orleans had taken place, but with a false assumption that the levees would hold.

Again, as the top 3 likely disasters to hit America were:Terrorist attack on New York, Hurricane to hit New Orleans, and earthquake in San Francisco, I think the that FEMA should have a bit more of a clue than reading in the paper on Tuesday that the levees had held. They are FEMA - they have the money and the manpower to know that a levee break is a real possibility.

Both the law and protocol prohibit the president from ordering military troops into a state without a formal request to do so from the governor of the

And the Bush administration has always followed the law and protocol, as they did in their invasion of Iraq?

Now you know what to say in response to all of that malarkey.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:29 / 07.09.05
Both the law and protocol prohibit the president from ordering military troops into a state without a formal request to do so from the governor of the

I think this is posse comitatus, which does not entirely apply here. Military troops are often in states - where else would you put them? What they are not allowed to do under posse comitatus is to "execute the laws" - that is, do the duties of the police. Preventing wide-scale rioting and looting after a catastrophic failure of law and order is not strictly the duty of the police. It's a judgement call..
 
 
diz
09:35 / 07.09.05
To paraphrase John Stewart from tonight's 'Daily Show', this is Bush's Lewinsky.

No. This is Bush's Rodney King riots.

Bush I was riding high on a victory over Iraq, until a major domestic event involving poor inner-city black people brought a lot of attention to the level of damage his administration's neglect had done in that area. Same thing now for Bush II, except he wasn't riding all that high to begin with due to the prolonged non-victory over Iraq.
 
 
Slim
11:06 / 07.09.05
Call me pessimistic but I don't see this hurting the Bush administration to a large degree. Bush and company have committed multiple blunders and gotten away with all of them. He doesn't have to worry about getting reelected and it seems to me that the Congress and the Senate haven't been heavily criticizing him (but perhaps I missed this).

I was watching a Newt Gingrich interview on the O'Reilly Factor and when asked why Bush responded a day late, Gingrich claimed it was because FEMA was giving the president the wrong information. Given that FEMA and Chertoff royally screwed the pooch, it's an excuse that will most likely fly with the American public.

I would love to see Bush get pinned to the wall on this issue. But the fact is that after no WMDs were found in Iraq, after Rove outed a CIA spy, and after the Downing Street memo, people on this board were hopeful that Bush was finally going to get blasted. Though his approval rating has dropped of late, for the most part he's gotten away with everything.

Maybe I'm wrong about this and the American people will finally realize that Bush is an awful President. Unfortunately, recent history indicates that this will not be the case.
 
  

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