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Lost (E4 Thread)

 
  

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Smoothly
16:34 / 12.09.05
I don't think that's much of a spoiler, but with the best will in the world, I don't understand why you posted it here. I mean, who mentioned The Office? If you're just going to drip feed us with teasing factettes about future episodes that you don't think will spoil much, then that's going to get annoying pretty quickly.
There are other threads for you, Marty McFly.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:55 / 12.09.05
Sorry. I was *gloating*. It won't happen again. I've moved off to the US thread.
 
 
modern maenad
10:54 / 20.09.05
So no, he doesn't stay flat and boring and predicitble. Is that a spoiler?

Just wanted to say that for me that is a spoiler, but then I have to confess to be especially obsessive about not wanting to know anything before seeing/reading stuff. Although you haven't told me a particular plot development, you have closed down a potential option for my brain to play with, which, in an admittedly minor way, reduces my viewing/musing pleasure. Don't mean to sound like an ass, but would rather people only posted on episodes screened to date......

Back to show - have only just caught up on past couple of episodes, and wanted to say that though enjoying overall, and feel this thread is helping - loved Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now heads up, thanks barbie dolls - I am finding Lost just a bit heavy handed: Thought the Charlie/Heroin storyline was appalling - especially the classic 'TV representation of addiction'. In my experience addicts do not say things like 'Give me the drugs', and it takes more than one rough evening to get through detox - though once again perhaps this is all part of the magic of the island. Anyone else?

Again, was enjoying Sawyer episode, but then why oh why did he have to have become a confidence trickster? And did we really need Kate to point out that he 'wants to be punished/have everyone hate him'......also uncomfortable with two racial stereotypes - firstly did it really have to be the Korean woman who worked out the eucalyptus herbal rememdy? And having Said do the torture? Anyone else feel uncomfortable about this? Also was glad they took on the whole 'fat guy' stereotype in the Charlie/Hugo/peanuts segment, but then it got all undermined with the humour, 'cos fat guys and funny stuff just go together.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:28 / 21.09.05
In Sayid's case, before this episode he'd already been established as an ex-member of Saddam's Republican Guard and a guy with a vindictive streak he's trying to keep under control. His failure to do so leads him to leave the rest of the survivors in shame. That's not racial stereotyping, that's progression of character. And I'm not aware of any racial stereotype that says that Korean women know all about herbal remedies, but again there's no reason why Sun couldn't know that, and the fact that Michael is the only one who knows she speaks English, so the only one she can ask for help, moves their own burgeoning plotline onwards. It makes less sense that Jack felt more like resorting to torture than thinking about herbal remedies himself, but that's network drama for you.

Regarding the representation of Charlie's withdrawal... seemed fine to me, again given the constraints of network drama (did they actually mention it was smack? They just kept calling it 'drugs', didn't they?). And it wasn't just an evening - he gave the stash to Locke the previous episode, and had obviously been suffering for a while. Everyone's cold turkey is different in my experience, anyway, and some people don't suffer as much as others.

Think you're nitpicking, to be honest, and you're worrying too much about stereotyping in what is essentially a fantasy network drama about pretty people surviving a plane crash on a mysterious island. And considering that you can only be bothered to refer to Sun as 'The Korean woman', you're one to talk about perpetuation.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:47 / 21.09.05
It makes less sense that Jack felt more like resorting to torture than thinking about herbal remedies himself

...Unless he's not really a very good doctor. Aha!
 
 
modern maenad
13:48 / 21.09.05
Think you're nitpicking, to be honest, and you're worrying too much about stereotyping in what is essentially a fantasy network drama about pretty people surviving a plane crash on a mysterious island. And considering that you can only be bothered to refer to Sun as 'The Korean woman', you're one to talk about perpetuation.

In my defense, I couldn't remember Sun's name and I don't think calling her a Korean woman is perpetuating a stereotype. My point about the herbal knowledge is that, to me, it plays into the opposition between a supposedly superior western, white, masculine, positivistic, medical-scientific model and an 'inferior' eastern/oriental model which equates 'native'/nonwhite people (especially women) with nature, sees them as 'closer to the earth' (i.e. less sophisticated/scientific) and thus more likely to engage in practices such as herbal medicine. I do accept though that this is my reading, and was posting because I wanted to hear what other people thought, and fair doos if you don't agree.

Regarding the nit-picking, I'm afraid I don't agree - for me its vital/critical that we engage with the culture we're immersed in and consider the ways that the images and narratives that surround us contribute to our understanding of and behaviour in the world. Jack, you talk about the constraints of network drama, but I really don't know what you mean. Shows like Lost have a choice in whether to perpetuate or challenge racial/gender/etc. stereotypes and to engage in a more sophisticated dialogue with their audience, and I feel disappointed when they role out the same old cliches.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
10:38 / 22.09.05
Yes, that's my point. You shouldn't - it's to be expected. There's a committee approach to showrunning, and sponsorship to consider, so of course there are certain constraints. And when I referred to network television having restraints, I was specifically referring to the portrayal of drug abuse, addiction and withdrawal.

I would point out, however, in defense of the supposed perpetuation of stereotypes in Lost, that it's highly unlikely the vast majority of people here or anywhere else would have knows that Jin and Sun were Korean unless the writers had very specifically pointed it out. In fact the show raised the same issue you're raising by having characters just assume they were Chinese or Japanese.

Whether you could remember her name or not isn't the point. You were perfectly happy to refer to her by characteristics of race alone instead of doing a ten second search. If you want to engage with the culture, as you put it, it does you no good if you fail to examine your own position as well as trying to understand others, because essentially you're potentially laying yourself wide open to becoming judgemental, and as ignorant and narrowminded as those you decry.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:12 / 22.09.05
But on another note, holy shit it's Mira Furlan, and she is MAD AS BILLY. Or maybe she isn't! Uh-oh!
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
14:25 / 22.09.05
I really found the Sawyer line to The Pretty Love Interest (hah) post-torture laugh-out-loud funny.
(Paraphrasing)

Her : Are you alright?

Him : Freckles, I'm tied to a tree on a mysterious island after a plane crash, and I just got tortured by a spinal surgeon and bona fide I-raqi...Hell, I'm just peachy!

And people are complaining about verisimilitude?
 
 
h1ppychick
14:55 / 22.09.05
Aaaaah, it was Delenn! Of course! I was racking my brain last night trying to work out where I knew Mad Danielle from.
 
 
sleazenation
15:00 / 22.09.05
Of Course Mira Furlan as Rousseau gives lie to the whole 'actors playing their own nationalities' thing what with Furlan not being french, but rather hailing from the former Yugoslavia...
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:57 / 23.09.05
Okay - I've seen a lot of people, even people who've seen more of this show than I have, speculate that because there's a polar bear in the comic that Walt is reading in an early episode, the polar bear is somehow something Walt created.

But Rousseau says to Sayid "If we're lucky, it's one of the bears", or something like that. Presumably, she would have added "Which only appeared a week and a bit ago" (or however long they've been there now), if that were the case, right?
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
16:06 / 23.09.05
But Rousseau is of the crazy...
 
 
electricinca
17:08 / 24.09.05
Unless Walt created the crazy French lady portrayed by a Croatian in addition to creating the bears and in his creating of her gave her a history of surviving on the island for 16 years with other survivors who were then killed etc.

And then Bobby will step out of the shower and it will all turn out to be a dream...
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
14:52 / 27.09.05
But even a bear would have been too small to be the big fucking thing that attacked the cockpit in episode one, although something of that size and ferocity hasn't been included since so it might be one of those things that the show's producers want us not to remember so much...

The thing that gets me is that Sawyer calls Kate 'Freckles' and yet I can't see any freckles at all. Do these come out clearer on American telly or is this some sort of joke that I'm far FAR too innocent to understand?
 
 
sleazenation
15:17 / 27.09.05
Do these come out clearer on American telly I've not notice much coming over clearer on American TV due to different TV standards...
 
 
Smoothly
15:20 / 27.09.05
Look at her nose.



Definite frecklage.
 
 
Sax
14:30 / 30.09.05
Electricinca may be quite close, there. Maybe Walt created the polar bear, Jack created his Dad, Sayeed creates Rousseau - he's the one who's been most obsessed with the signal, after all.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:35 / 30.09.05
Forget that, let's talk about ETHAN ROM.

Is he one THE OTHERS? His name is an anagram of OTHER MAN.

In the 'previously', I noticed that Rousseau's message actually says "It killed the others". Are those the same Others she's scared of, the ones who now hold the ground where the transmitter/power source is?
 
 
Sniv
16:24 / 30.09.05
No, I think those "others" that crazy french ledy mentioned were the other people in her group that she was telling Siaid about, and not Ethan Rom's people. This still leaves the question of who they are though - how they got there, and why they have some kind of baby-mania going on... this show is goooooood!
 
 
Triplets
17:16 / 30.09.05
That's why "The Others" is such an awesomely ambiguous group name. Expect the characters to be saying it a lot more.
 
 
sleazenation
17:20 / 30.09.05
Which raises an interesting question - are the 'others' a single unified group or are there many different groups of 'others'...
 
 
DaveBCooper
13:34 / 03.10.05
I thought Ethan Rom was an anagram of More Than, and he was going to turn out to be a pushy insurance salesman. Would scare the hell out of me.

Like the idea that the psychic ‘forced’ Claire onto the plane, and thought the dialogue between Hurley and Sawyer was good; almost as if the writer was acknowledging that Sawyer talking to anyone tends to go along certain predictable lines. I like the way Hurley’s written and played, so far he seems an affable character with no real agenda, but I’m sure that’ll change once we’ve seen his flashbacks…
 
 
DaveBCooper
10:21 / 07.10.05
Oh, look I’m talking to myself. Not for the first or last time.

Thought this was a good episode – though for once the flashbacks felt a bit like interruptions; pleased with the way they kept the momentum going, and then kept the questions coming up: who are ‘they’? Why do they want Claire ? What exactly happened to Charlie ? And what IS that metal thing in the ground ? Etc.

Enough questions to keep me interested, giving a damn, and coming back for more. Which is the trick, really.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:32 / 07.10.05
I quite like how Jack has been totally undermined after being set up as the hero: he managed to split the group up, he handled the Claire situation badly, Hurley has smarter ideas, Kate has more sexual chemistry with NotSawyer... As Locke says, Jack needs to stick to being a doctor. Except wasn't it Locke who told Jack the group needed a leader?

But I like the ambiguity of Charlie's miracle resurrection ('cos that's what it was - check out the way the coil of rope behind his head looked like a halo or crown of thorns when he was lying on the ground): did Jack bring him back just by wanting it badly enough, so that the island obliged?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
13:45 / 07.10.05
Also, how preposterous is it that Jack's dad's name is Christian Shephard?
 
 
DaveBCooper
14:13 / 07.10.05
Yeesh, I never noticed that. Hmm, a bit heavy for my tastes.
 
 
Scrambled Password Bogus Email
16:40 / 07.10.05
Hey, don't mock - truth is stranger than fiction.

I used to know a family near where I grew up - the Dicks. OK, this could be unfortunate - parental discretion is required in the naming of any offspring, right??

Everard, Ophelia and Rhoda (married into the family!) definitley waaaaaay off limits.

I swear this is true.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:27 / 13.10.05
I quite like how Jack has been totally undermined after being set up as the hero

He's still starting to really, REALLY irritate me. Hey Jack, why not a) ask Kate specifically whether she thinks it's a bit of a coincidence that her keepsake is a toy plane that looks a lot like the one you all crashed in, OR b) prioritise establishing whether Kate's past makes her an actual risk to the castaways (when she offered to tell you all about it would have been a great opportunity, remember?), OR c) be nice to her, rather than just being a sanctimonious but ultimately usless dick about it?

I would have preferred this episode to have more Sawyer, frankly.
 
 
_Boboss
09:56 / 13.10.05
you could almost hear the studio guys screaming 'goddamnit this show needs more guns!'

so, they've just forgotten about claire? the trail's cold? yeah but folks, you're on an island, there's a finite number of places she could be, just tell the search parties to keep an ear out for the birth pains or screaming baby noises, yeah? no no no, it takes all of us to move the suitcases a bit further up the beach.

'i can't help you child...let us pray'. is this just jelly-kneed payback for daring to imply last week that 'christian shepherd' might be a pissed-up old twat?

and, apart from a very small bit they've let us forget about the metal floor? that's a two-cliffhanger backlog by my count. the quality of individual episodes varies wildly in this show, and last night's was a bit of a stinker.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
10:05 / 13.10.05
I dunno, not going after Ethan and Claire kind of makes sense given that he beat the shit out of Jack so effectively (good Ethan!) and fulfilled his promise to kill one of his hostages. Now the two trackers are preoccupied (Locke with the metal thing, Kate with the other metal thing), who else can Charlie go to for help but teh Lord Jesus?
 
 
lord nuneaton savage
10:14 / 13.10.05
I've started calling the good Doctor "Flashjack" now.

Example; Close up on Jacks face looking moody, the bottom lip starts to wobble, the eyes mist slightly and: Flashjack! We're in the past.

What the hell was the point of those flashbacks anyhoo? OK, so Jack doesn't like it when pregnant women are in danger, fair enough, who does? But do we need a backstory involving his pisshead father to explain this to us?

Although it did give him the opportunity to cry "Not again!" in a dramatic manner, which was pretty funny.
 
 
Jack The Bodiless
11:48 / 13.10.05
And is it just me, or is Jack always out of breath, as well?

And he's a really shitty doctor. C'mon, seriously - failing to consider natural remedies as an alternative to advocating torture, threatening to withhold medication unless a patient hands over property that was given to him... where was he when his classmates were taking the hippocratic oath, kicking the shit out of a crippled kid? Chip off the old block, that one.

And why (in friggerty fuck) does Kate act all nonchalant and give NotSawyer the briefcase, and then resort to increasingly stupid kid's tricks to get it back when she could have just NOT GIVEN IT TO HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE. I mean, she said it was hers, he asked her whether she wanted to keep it... the girl's an asshole. And an odd choice of swimming clothing for the two of them, too - Kate removes almost all the clothing on her lower half but leaves all the rest, NotSawyer keeps his jeans on but takes off his t-shirt. Practical AND sexy!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:54 / 13.10.05
Not to mention that Kate lies to Jack about what's in the briefcase as if it contains secret files about her criminal past, whereas she could have just said "it contains a keepsake of sentimental value" and he would have helped her. The only way lying about it would have made sense would be if Kate already knows the connection between toy plane and crash plane, and sadly I fear the show is not that cool.

Anyway, pick only five Lost castaways to save on a little boat. I go with:

Sayid
Sawyer
Locke
Hurley
Shannon
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:56 / 13.10.05
Maybe room for Charlie as he is half a person only.
 
  

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