BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


My Technique is Unstoppable!

 
  

Page: (1)2345

 
 
lekvar
20:07 / 15.08.05
I know there are other threads on this subject, but they are more specific in nature. (For example, the excellent Suggestions thread thread) I'm hoping to get a broader discussion of the arts, what they are, what they mean to you, how they compare.

To begin, I've studied Aikido, Tai Chi, and a goofy amalgam art called Am Ka Jitsu. Am Ka Jitsu was my first, and it provided me with self confidence when I needed it, but the dojo was often derided as "the black-belt factory," as it wasn't a "serious" dojo. The art itself involved Aikido, Tai Chi, Karate, Judo, and a few other odds and ends thrown in to keep people interested. There was a sparring session at the end of each class, but it was strictly no contact. Fun, non-threatening stuff for a 12-year old who had just seen Karate Kid.

More recently I've taken Aikido at the local community college and enjoyed it immensely. Aikido can be translated as "the way to union with universal energy" and is characterized by circular movements calculated to use your opponent's weight, energy, and momentum against them while keeping yourself stable, balanced, and centered. One of the things I've enjoyed is the weapons training, jo (short staff) and boken (wooden sword). There's something satisfying about weapon's training that is utterly impractical (If I get in a fight, what are the chanced that I or my opponent will have a boken?) I've noticed in other threads that Aikido is probably the most popular martial art among Barbelith posters.

An interesting aside- the "do" in Aikido and other martial arts refers to a more spiritual or centered art, such as Kendo or Judo. "Jitsu" refers to military arts, such as Ninjitsu or Jujitsu. According to my sesei, there is such an art as Aikijitsu, but I've been able to find very little information about it.

Finally, Tai Chi.
I love Tai Chi. It's hugely relaxing and so incredibly graceful. This is not an art for the impatient.

I'm going to shamelessly plagiarize the wikipedia article for this one...

"T'ai Chi Ch'uan or Taijiquan (Chinese: ???; pinyin: Tàijíquán; literally "supreme ultimate fist"), commonly known as T'ai Chi, Tai Chi, or Taiji, is a nei chia ("internal") Chinese martial art which is known for the claims of health and longevity benefits made by its practitioners and in some recent medical studies. T'ai Chi Ch'uan is also known as a soft style martial art, an art applied with as complete a relaxation or "softness" in the musculature as possible, to distinguish its theory and application from that of the hard martial art styles which use a degree of tension in the muscles.
T'ai Chi Ch'uan is best known as one of the slow motion routines that groups of people practice every morning in hundreds of parks across China and, increasingly, other parts of the world. In T'ai Chi classes one is taught awareness of one's own balance and what affects it, awareness of the same in others, and appreciation of the practical value in one's ability to moderate extremes of behavior and attitude at both mental and physical levels, and how this applies to effective self-defense principles.

While its practitioners consider it primarily a style of martial art, T'ai Chi Ch'uan is also called an art of moving meditation. T'ai Chi theory and practice is also formulated in agreement with many of the principles of traditional Chinese medicine. Besides general health benefits and stress management attributed to beginning and intermediate level T'ai Chi training, many therapeutic interventions along the lines of traditional Chinese medicine are taught to advanced T'ai Chi students in traditional schools. T'ai Chi Chuan as physical training is characterized by its requirement for the use of leverage through the joints based on coordination in relaxation rather than muscular tension in order to neutralize or initiate physical attacks. The slow, repetitive work involved in that process is said to gently increase and open the internal circulation (breath, body heat, blood, peristalsis, etc.). Over time, proponents say, this enhancement becomes a lasting effect, a direct reversal of the physical effects of stress on the human body. This reversal allows much more of the students' native energy to be available to them, which they may then apply more effectively to the rest of their lives; families, careers, spiritual or creative pursuits, hobbies, etc."

I studied Yang style, the 24 form. Occasionally the teacher would take us through the 48 form, and she also taught sword and fan forms.

I've been wanting to study Capoera, sometimes called Brazillian War Dancing. As I understand it, it evolved in Brazil amongst the slave population. The slave owners wouldn't allow the slaves weapons or stand idly by while the slaves practiced fighting, so they concealed their sparring in their dancing. Thus Capoera is a rhythmic, dancing martial art, sparring and practicing are set to music. That strikes me as soooo fucking cool. Rumor has it that breakdancing evolved from Capoera.
 
 
Lord Morgue
07:43 / 16.08.05
There's also a theory that breakdancing came out of Jailhouse Rock, also known as 52 Hands or 52 Blocks, a martial art developed in prison from African fighting styles in the 1800's. The link is supposed to be through Uprocking, or Brooklyn Beat, a sort of "combat breakdancing" (hi, Illmatic!). You can see a good comparison of Capoeira and Uprocking in Robert Wise's film "Rooftops" (yeah, "Sound of Music" Robert Wise.), and some Jailhouse Rock in "Lethal Weapon".

Some good Tai Chi materials here-
Erle Montaigue online books and articles
Including the complete Old Yang form, combat applications, and Dim Mak charts.

I suppose I should give my martial arts credentials, too.
I was trained in a style that combined western boxing and wrestling, modified for streetfighting. My own research leans towards Jeet Kune Do, Tai Chi, Ninjitsu and World War Two combatives. My weapons are nunchaku, machete, and knives.
The main martial artists I look up to are Bruce Lee, Benny "The Jet" Urquidez, George Hackenschmidt, Myamoto Musashi, Kazushi Sakuraba, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson, and Parinya Kiatbusaba.

So, anyone else watch "Fight School"? we're just getting the series here in Oz, and I must say it's a buzz to see Simon Lau- I started off my own training with his book "Master's Kung Fu", and I based my own punching technique on his. I have to say, I can punch out a candle flame a lot better than the jokers on that show.
 
 
HCE
04:45 / 24.10.06
Did Lord Morque kill this thread? What are you folks practicing these days? What do you recommend for somebody smallish?
 
 
Good Intentions
05:01 / 24.10.06
I'm a quite serious practicioner of Historic European Martial Arts, with my forte being the Kunstes des Fechten (comprising wrestling, knife and dagger, single sword, longsword and polearms) of Johannes Lichtenauer and those who followed him (from C14 thorugh to C17). My speciality is messerfechten, the use of the "langes messer" (long knife, because mostly only one edge is sharpened), falchion, dussack, arming sword and other single handed swords within the Lichtenauer system. I'm also competent with Fiori dei' Liberi's Flos Duallatorum (same range of weapons, from around 1400) and some English medieval swordfighting from the same period (for both single and double-handed swords, with and without off-hand items). Also the more recent arts of the naval cutlass (C18), bareknuckle boxing (C19) and savate (in the style of defense dans la rue, turn of C20). Oh yes, and boxing, which got me started in all this.

Umm, hello!
 
 
Good Intentions
05:03 / 24.10.06
I've been attempting to teach Fred some savate over the internet, for shits and giggles. And removing people's knees. I highly recommend savate as a form of self-defense and martial art for women. Small guys should do wrestling.
 
 
grant
15:07 / 24.10.06
I miss my tai chi class terribly. Long form (108 moves), sifu was in the Yang lineage. Weilun Huang.

Damn parenthood.

I took judo a few years back, but dropped it to take film classes instead. It was OK, but as a mellow 20-something, it got emotionally tiring being beaten up by Puerto Rican 15-year-olds.

I always thought the "-do" suffix had to do with sports. "-itsu" was fighting, "-do" was something that had tournaments and rankings and scoring systems. That's wrong?
 
 
grant
15:08 / 24.10.06
Oh, and more recently, I went on a fencing kick, but it's hard to find good classes. I was having a lot of fun twice a week, though.
 
 
HCE
16:53 / 24.10.06
I think the question of what's good for small people had come up before -- I believe somebody suggested muay thai?

Who else fences? Haus?

Oh, I didn't realize that tai chi has lineages, like Wing Chun does. I found this chap who is supposed to be from a 'good' lineage: Hawkins Cheung, and took a few classes but it wasn't right for me. Although it's a system that's supposed to be designed by a woman, it felt very unnatural for my body.

I am very attracted to the idea of martial arts but still haven't found one that really feels good.
 
 
lekvar
18:06 / 24.10.06
grant - generally "do" forms are "internal," they are more meditative arts, not really suited for barfights. "Jitsu" arts are "external," meaning they're used for hurting people. I just found out that there's an aikijitsu dojo in Berkely. I'd love to attend, but as you said, parenthood.

Regarding wrestling, I never took it seriously as a martial art, but when a fiend of mine dragged me to a mixed martial arts tournament, it was the fighters who were skilled in wrestling who won every fight. It was brutal - there would be a few brief minutes/seconds of kicking and then someone would end up on the ground. Once the grappling started it was clear who would win. This really surprised me. The tall, long limbed kickboxers would end up getting tied in knots by shorter grapplers.
 
 
Proinsias
18:54 / 24.10.06
I done a fair bit of Shotokan Karate when I was younger and never really got much from it aside from alot of different coloured belts.
It still confuses me when I watch Karate practitioners these days, the beginners are all in horse type stances doing fairly solid looking movements and the high grade fighters seem to float around like Bruce Lee lightly slapping roundhouse kicks out of the way. Do they take you to a certain level and the tell you how to actually fight?

I started doing Wing Chun under Sifu Paul Smith, who had a reasonably direct line to Yip Chun/Ching through Samuel Kwok. I done this for around 5yrs before my attendence started becoming a little erratic. I have been attending Wing Chun on and off for the past five years and am keen to get back to it on a regular basis soon. I really appreciate the directness and non-nonsence side of wing chun although it seems ot could do with some sort of grappling and groundfighting, from my very limited experience of Aikido I rekon it could make a rather nice partner.
Wing Chun and Aikido seem to operate from very similar priciples of directness, simplicity and conservation of energy and come out with very different applications - the fact that wing chun uses very close quarter fighting could further help its integration with Aikdo.

Has anybody out there tried pairing wing chun and aikido?
Is it as beautiful as it looks in my head?
Am I the first ever to conceive of this and thus likley to rip through the competition as I step onto the next series of The Ultimate Fighter?

I would also vouch for wing chun as an art suitable for smaller people, it's all in the positioning and footwork, no need for brute strength. The techniques, although effective, are a good deal less savory than what I've seen in Aikido eg Aikido - put pressure on joint, only break if necessary. Wing Chun - take the fuckers eye out.
Feel free to correct my perhaps rather simple comparison.

The more Chris Cruedelli programms I watch the more I become convinced the great secrets of martials arts are - go for the eyes, throat, balls and knees, oh and of course him 'em first.

I have been wanting to try Tai Chi for quite a few years but I figure if I've not got time for wing chun then I might be aswell waiting a while before talking up Tai Chi.
Ah well one day someday. Would I be corect in saying that finding a good Tai Chi teacher may be even more important in Tai Chi than it would for other arts?
 
 
illmatic
20:05 / 24.10.06
Hi all

How did I miss this thread?

Good Intentions, one for you, if you don't know it already. A great Defence Dans La Rue DVD available here. Great training clip also.

Fred, can I just ask you what do you want to get out of your training? That might help settle your dilemma.

Is it self-defence? Because I think self-defence for men and for women are two completely different subject, while with martial arts there's not so much difference. I also think the majority of martial arts teaches self-defence quite badly - a different topic.

Again, going to scan the rest of this thread again and come back with another post.
 
 
illmatic
20:24 / 24.10.06
The more Chris Cruedelli programms I watch the more I become convinced the great secrets of martials arts are - go for the eyes, throat, balls and knees, oh and of course him 'em first.

Personally, I differentiate between martial arts and fighting for much the same reasons. One is a refined aethetic activity - an art, and one really, really isn't. Most martial artists being quite sensible and intelligent people, don't go around battering people and thus aren't sure if what they do would work "for real" or worse, convice themselves something useless is going to save their arses. If you do want to find out what has real world effectiveness, look for the people who've used it for real - bouncers etc. They'll soon tell you what works. Personally, I'm not that bothered about this - well, actually, I wouldn't mind doing some "eat their heart with your bare hands" training but life's too short and I'm too pretty.

I would also vouch for wing chun as an art suitable for smaller people

Wasn't Wing Chun was allegedly devised by a woman, a Chinese nun IIRC, who created the art after being attacked? I think it looks quite beautiful, but I'm not sold on all the self-defence aspects.

Would I be corect in saying that finding a good Tai Chi teacher may be even more important in Tai Chi than it would for other arts?

Well, it isn't as high impact as other arts, so you're less likely to fuck yourself up. Tai Chi has blossomed so much in popularity in recent years though that there are a lot of teachers around , some of whom are going to be not that great.

To answer your orignal questions Fred, I'm still training Ba Gua and Hsing I. Five years in now. When do I start getting good? I am hankering to do another art and to sate my cravings a little I've recently taken up weight training. There's a Kali/Escrima guy near me who I might try out soon.
 
 
Proinsias
21:19 / 24.10.06
Wasn't Wing Chun was allegedly devised by a woman

I think that's a pretty big 'allegedly' as far back as they can reliably trace the lineage it's been fairly, if not exclusively, male dominated. The nun, Ng Mui I think, sounds like a bit of a Lao Tzu type character.

I have to say I'm far more interested in the martial art side of training as oppossed to the self defence side. Self defence, combined with wanting to be Bruce Lee obviously, was the reason I began training. After a few years of Wing Chun it came to be me trying to figure how to use my body and chi sau(sticky hands) moved from being a means to get hands on experience to chess like game during which you can chat and laugh while your hands take care of themselves.

I'd like to try something else soon. I keep telling myself I need to get a good base in wing chun first but I don't think I'll ever been convinced I'm there, it's been ten years now. I'm swaying between aikido & tai chi although iamus has been trying to convince that ba gua is the way ahead. From some drunken talks I gather it's like tai chi only cooler, I chllenge you to beat that all encompassing description pegs, with spinny bits.
 
 
Twice
21:25 / 24.10.06
In the spirit of the 'Recently Updated' theme, I saw this thread. I don't really understand, but this caught my eye:

My speciality is messerfechten, the use of the "langes messer" (long knife, because mostly only one edge is sharpened)

Erm, why? (genuinely intrigued)
 
 
Proinsias
00:16 / 25.10.06
Erm, why?

I think Quantum might be more qualified to answer that question:

I roleplay, have a collection of heroclix figurines, play Magic: the blathering and post on Barbelith
 
 
HCE
01:04 / 25.10.06
GI has spotty internet access. I"m sure he'll be by shortly.

In answer to your earlier question, Pegs, somebody tried to mug me a while back, and while I am happy that I did not just give in, next time I would like to go further and try to cause physical harm to anybody who sees fit to attack me. Mental discipline is as important to me as physical discipline.
 
 
Proinsias
01:36 / 25.10.06
To be honest the more kung fu I do the more I'd be inclined to let someone mug me without feeling like shit*. Referring back to pegs talking about real life applications, I'd have to say I'd be worried about what would happen if I let loose. I know this might sound like I've got an inflated sense of ego but it's as much of a worry to know what you might do as oppossed to what you can't do. With power comes responsibilty etc.....

This is one of the reasons I feel inclined towards aikido as from what I've seen most of the techniques can be used to restrain and if needed hurt, most of what I know is about causing maximum damage with minimum effort with absolutly no in between.

* I do think think that this frame of mind actually prevents people trying to go for you - you learn to fight so as you don't have to fight.

(I'm a under the influence of alcohol and may well be talking shit)
 
 
Good Intentions
02:21 / 25.10.06
My speciality is messerfechten, the use of the "langes messer" (long knife, because mostly only one edge is sharpened)
Erm, why? (genuinely intrigued)

Why is only one edge sharpened? A number of reasons - throughout most of Central Europe the wearing of swords and other weapons were concidered threatening and possibly illegal, whereas knives were ubiquitious for various uses. The langes messer was used to dig trenches, clear fields and what not - it's the central European equivalent of a machete. You could thus carry one around in broad daylight (and they normally didn't have sheaths, being work tools) without being looked at strangely in almost every city in Europe. Knowing how to use one in a fight would be very handy. The moment the back edge is sharpened it becomes a weapon, and thereby liable to legal attention. Messerfechten works perfectly well for single-handed swords of every description, except for rapiers (too long) and smallswords (too light), though I could fudge using them quite well. The very front bit of the back edge of a messer is sharpened, the last three or four inches before the tip, which isn't enough to worry a judge but can be used very efficiently by the prudent practicioner.

Why am I a specialist at it? My instructor in South Africa is one of the two or three best users of the messer in the world - it suits his style and temperament, never mind his small, stout stature. Here in New Zealand my current instructor, like damn-near every other HEMA practicioner, has never really gone into the messer so I became the de facto specialist.
 
 
Good Intentions
02:25 / 25.10.06
I won't advance any opinions on the Eastern arts, since I don't know that much about them. In fact, within the HEMA community they are quite often looked upon rather derisively, because so many people who practice them are flailing idiots. I think that's a little unkind, because there are excellent martial artists in those traditions (Bruce Lee, Professor Kano, etc.) as well as the gargantuan mass of ineffectual, insulting morons.
 
 
Good Intentions
02:59 / 25.10.06
All hand to hand combat comes down to wrestling. In Medieval Europe, up until the late Renaissance, all hand to hand combat, even with 18-foot polearms, was described as an extension of wrestling.

Short people have two advantages when wrestling - a lower center of gravity, allowing them to get under larger people and lver them that way, and an advantage of leverage because of their covering a shorter space in the grapple - a shorter person can easily grab someone larger's elbow or get at his knee-crook. Larger people have the weight advantage, which isn't to be snuffed at, but while a larger man always had the advantage you can always defend yourself if you equal your opponent in skill and defeat him if you are better. A short person's best defence is to be better at wrestling than anybody else, since for him all fights becomes grapples even more easily.
 
 
illmatic
08:48 / 25.10.06
it's like tai chi only cooler, I chllenge you to beat that all encompassing description pegs, with spinny bits

I’ll have a go. It’s the same body mechanics as Tai Chi (and Hsing I as well), but if you imagine Tai Chi as being based on rolling with the energy of your opponent, Ba Gua is kind of evasive, based on circling round them. Hsing I is more like a straight line, steaming straight in. With Ba Gua you evade, slip and slide to the side, and a lot of the strikes and throws arise out of the non-linear movements who find yourself doing. Thus Ba Gua practice is based on walking in circles, imagining your opponent in the centre. The fundamental thing is evasion, getting out of the way, whereas with Hsing I the fundamental is hitting them hard. They complement each other quite nicey Hsing I has a directness Ba Gua lacks, but Ba Gua gives a kind of sense of all round awareness and movement that Hsing I lacks.

Ba Gua has a lot of associations with the I Ching as well. The idea of circular based movements, continual change and the eight basic strikes (palms) are allocated to the eight trigrams. However, because of the links with Chinese mysticism and it’s complexity, Ba Gua does also tend to attract the more mystically inclined – it’s that kind of cosmic art. The last person I met who did it (not connected with my class) was a fruitarian who lived in a forest. I think my class is quite grounded in comparision, though there is the odd, spinny mad, acrobatic move, which are actually really good fun to do.

next time I would like to go further and try to cause physical harm to anybody who sees fit to attack me. Mental discipline is as important to me as physical discipline.

I thought it might be that. I read about it on your LJ. I hope any negative effects aren’t still with you.

Well, IMO, 90% of good self-defence stuff is about what you’d call “soft skills” which is avoiding it all in the first place. This’d include awareness of your environment and people around you so you don’t get into situations, knowing how to talk to people so you don’t inflame things, awareness of “attack rituals” etc. A lot of this came quite easily to me as I’d done a lot of similar things in my meditation work. Can write more about this if you want. Anyway my point was, all this stuff can feed bigstyle into developing a sense of personal security.

If however, you want to have a bit of knowledge of how to hurt people, I would think that learning something with a big emphasis on ballistic striking would be the way to go. That’s the easiest way to get someone out of your face. Not sure how this would work with your size and weight. But I’d have a look for boxing classes or any other art that teaches you how to punch or strike properly. More thoughts later.
 
 
illmatic
09:10 / 25.10.06
All hand to hand combat comes down to wrestling

I think that while this is frequently true in a competitive situation (see the success of grapplers in UFC etc). I don’t think it’s true for self-defence. A lot of fights finish on the first strike. Sufficient aggression here can make someone back off, hurt them or render them unconscious. The best defence isn’t to start stuggling with someone, aiming for a throw, submission or strangle/choke/limb break, it’s to spank them as hard as you can, ideally striking FIRST and knocking them out. Grappling is good back up if this doesn’t work out admittedly but I wouldn’t advise it, in Fred’s case. Although grappling might be a fun hobby, I really wouldn’t adivse her to try it for real, against an aggressive, non-compliant attacker who may well be bigger and stronger than her.

Great article here on the difference between MMA-style grappling and fighting for real.
 
 
Good Intentions
23:03 / 25.10.06
It's easy to represent striking as a form of grappling. The medieval arts didn't differentiate between them, with techniques such as the (infinitely coolly named) "morßschlosse" and the various approaches sitting entirely within the "ringen" (German) or "abrazzare" (Italian). A strike is just another form of first wrestling - the first grapple of a pass.

The Greek and Roman martial arts also didn't have a destinction, even when the Roman gladiators wore steel gauntlets and cesti.
 
 
Good Intentions
00:08 / 26.10.06
Grappling is good back up if this doesn’t work out admittedly but I wouldn’t advise it, in Fred’s case. Although grappling might be a fun hobby, I really wouldn’t adivse her to try it for real, against an aggressive, non-compliant attacker who may well be bigger and stronger than her.
I have to disagree strongly. To quote George Silver's Paradoxes of Defence (1599) where he addresses this issue (in the face of rapier fencers who argued like you do in the face of their 5' long swords)

"But having both skill, not without special care of their guard [defence] or cross[ing of swords], the which they may safely do, by reason of the length of the rapiers: but happening both of one mind, the rather do bring themselves together: that being done, no skill with rapiers avail, they presently grapple fast their hilts, their wrists, arms, bodies or necks, as in lustring[?], wrestling, or striving together, they may best find for their advantages: whereby it most commonly falls out, that he that is the best wrestler, or strongest man (if neither of them can wrestle) overcomes, wrestling by strength, or fine skill in wrestling, the rapier from his adversary, or casting him from him, either to the ground, or to such distance, that he may by reason thereof, use the edge or point of his rapier, to strike or thrust him, leaving him dead or alive at his mercy."

In short, striking is sufficient alone only when one fighter outclasses his opponent, which is the case in most decisive real fights. Now, most people are terrible fighters, but it is disastrously bad practice to assume that all your opponents can't defend themselves. To fight safely, you must know how to grapple.

You'll see that Musashi agrees with Silver in this regard. Think of George Silver as the European Musashi - Silver was contemporarily read in the East long before the West caught on, since the traditions of martial art survived better in the East.

Grappling itself is a fine science, one that can be done by a person of any stature. Stronger fighters have the advantage, but you can always defend yourself if you are of equal skill to your opponents and defeat him if you are superior.
 
 
Proinsias
00:35 / 26.10.06
Fair enough GI but as Geoff Thompson, celebrated bouncer and street fighter, advises you should avoid the grappling in street fighting as while you are busy outclassing your opponent on the ground his mates are busy kicking your head in.

A reasonable striking ability combined with a fantastic running ability would be my preferred choice. I'm not so worried about winning as getting away intact.

I did train with a guy who practiced tai chi for over 10 years. His prefered strategy was to deliver a lightning fast kick to the opponents knee and run.
 
 
Good Intentions
01:51 / 26.10.06
Street fighting itself is only one special case. In a street fight I'd use savate. But I'll be mighty glad that I could depend on my grappling if need be.

There's no reason why grappling needs to be done on the floor. Especially not if you're the one setting the terms. Nothing like an hyperextended knee for an opponent to become pliant. Also, a very valuable maxim is "When you are busy up top, go low". When you're in an even clinch, I recommend a coup de bas (kick to the knee) followed by a coup de talon (driving your foot from his knee down onto his foot, rolling it around and breaking his ankle). And, as always in savate, repeat.
 
 
illmatic
07:02 / 26.10.06
Street fighting itself is only one special case. In a street fight I'd use savate. But I'll be mighty glad that I could depend on my grappling if need be.

In my response above, I was thinking specifically of street fighting, as I had in mind Fred’s statement above. Ze seems much more orientated towards a real world encounter (i.e. responding to a mugging) and all of the work I’ve read by people with extensive real world experience (Geoff Thompson, Peter Consterdine, Jamie O’Keefe and the like) favour striking as the first line of “defence” (or assault depending on which way you look at it), though they do acknowledge that grappling skills are important when/if it all goes wrong. If you click on the link I put up above there’s a photo of a doorman with a lot of grappling experience. It’s stated clearly that he wouldn’t rely on or even use grappling techniques on the door.

I think Savate would be a good bet, providing one can find a teacher.

Cheers for the George Silver quote btw, very interesting stuff.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
07:15 / 26.10.06
We seem to be looking at the needs of the shorter gentleman or lady, perhaps as a result of our focus group. What's good for those of average or above-average height? Pegs, do you find your height affects the way you practice Ba Gua or Hsing I? Did you choose them as practices because of their relation to your body type?
 
 
illmatic
08:14 / 26.10.06
I didn’t select the art due to my body type.

My height (6’4”) is a bit of disadvantage in some areas - co-ordination mainly. I find it hard to get all the smoothness and control that the internal arts emphasis - into the moves sometimes. There’s a lot of limb to keep control of,. But this has got markedly better the longer I’ve practiced. It’s a boon in other areas though - reach is the main one but I think size generally comes into it.

As to what’s good generally for those of above-average size – I’d say “anything” because having a go at anything that’s outside your comfort zone is a good thing. It depends on what tour hypothetical giant wants out it. Competitive hard knocks- muay thai maybe, flashy kicks and competition - Tae Kwon Do perhaps. Martial arts with a hippy feel – Tai Chi. Practical self defence – boxing (or boxing and judo per the discussion above) if there’s not a specialist class available.
 
 
Quantum
17:55 / 26.10.06
All hand to hand combat comes down to wrestling

In the ultimate fighting thingy, Gracie jitsu won IIRC, because it's great for grappling. A friend of mine caustically noted that very often in real life situations, while you grapple with someone their friends are kicking you in the head. The best real life techniques are mostly hit 'em and run according to my martial arts friends.
Haus- I did some Tae Kwan Do and I'd say it's ideal for tall people, but really any style involving lots of kicks would suit the lofty chap's physique. More leverage, you know.
 
 
Good Intentions
06:35 / 27.10.06
Ummm... I'll break my previous promise not to talk about the Eastern arts. Tae Kwon Do isn't particularily well-founded, not the more martial one and especially not the sporty one.

I have immense respect for tai chi and (traditional) jujitsu. Gracie jujitsu is a sport system.

Of course, if you're a black belt in TKD or Gracie or sport savate you are going to demolish most guys. But most people can't fight. Ballet dancers would destroy most people in a fight.

I have a real beef against bad martial arts practice, especially the instructors - most self-defence courses, especially the ones for women, would get those who follow them killed - because the stakes are high and the bad habits through bad training hard to remove.

For tall people I recommend boxing and savate. Make sure to get a passing eduction in grappling, especially takedowns and defence against takedowns. To quote Bruce Lee: "A year of boxing and a year of wrestling is better than 20 years of kung fu."
 
 
Good Intentions
06:37 / 27.10.06
Cheers for the George Silver quote btw, very interesting stuff.

All of it available here. Like I said, think of him as an English Musashi - a writer of short books with a lot of sense in them.
 
 
illmatic
08:08 / 27.10.06
I have a real beef against bad martial arts practice, especially the instructors - most self-defence courses, especially the ones for women, would get those who follow them killed

I completely agree with that. Also, most of that kind of training doesn't get over how deeply unpleasant real world violence is. It's bloody horrible, best avoided if you can. Which is why I like all the Geoff Thompson/RBSD stuff - the emphasis on general, common sense safety rather than getting "stuck in". Here's a post on it I wrote last year.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:09 / 27.10.06
Well, quite. Which is why a) I'd take the advice of somebody who has actually encountered these situations over the advice of somebody who has not and b) I'd be concerned, to be honest, about an unexamined response to a desire to cause physical damage to an assailant which goes no further than that. Inflicting harm to an assailant, I think, has to function in the broader context of an aim, which I'd normally suggest would be to incapacitate or at least discourage the other party, alllowing for an effective withdrawal. Moral victories have limited benefits in most scoring systems.
 
 
illmatic
10:08 / 27.10.06
unexamined response to a desire to cause physical damage to an assailant which goes no further than that

Yeah, I'm possibly a little guilty of that myself in my first response to Fred's post. So, learn to box, or whatever by all means, but if you are learning it for self-defence reasons, learn about the context of personal safety, which, as I said, pretty much always comes down to avoding trouble at all if you can.

This was why I wrote upthread that although particapaing in martial arts/sports should be pretty much the same for men and women, self-protection and defence should be very different. We won't face similar threats, and any training or instruction should reflect this.

For instance, I'm much more likely to be assaulted in or outside a pub on a Friday or Saturday night than most women, whereas I'm unlikely to have to face date rape, drug rape or stalking. Good self-defence for women should show an awareness of these broader issues.
 
  

Page: (1)2345

 
  
Add Your Reply