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Post-Modern Magick by Seth

 
  

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buttergun
16:25 / 11.04.05
Does anyone have any opinions on this book? (Info here). I'm trying to decide between it and Phil Hine's "Condensed Chaos." The only magic books I have are Kraig's "Modern Magick" and some Crowley books, along with some RAW and "Undoing Yourself with Energized Meditation," if those count.

I just wish Morrison's "Pop Mag!c" was finally available, I'd order THAT in a heartbeat.
 
 
Issaiah Saysir
18:32 / 11.04.05
Not our "Seth", is it?
 
 
Alex's Grandma
19:03 / 11.04.05
If it's by the Seth that posts on here, you should go out and get yourself a copy, instantly.

Otherwise, and I say this as a total dilletante, armchair magicky type person ( my powers are weak, very weak, ) Phil Hine has always seemed like the best commentator on this subject, at least that's around at the moment. Granted, I nearly died of embarrassment on the guy's behalf during his description of the Harpo Marx ritual, which I think is in Condensed Chaos - he describes it very well, I'm guessing, but a paragraph into that, and my spine had already detached itself, and was banging on the window, trying to get out. I found myself thinking I'd rather host a prime time ITV game show naked, with the family watching, than go anywhere near any of that.

Prime Chaos though, is well worth a shot. It's written with wit, irony and taste, and if Pete Carroll's a rocker ( leather, long hair, and, crucially, an apparently totally unjustified contempt for his fellow man, ) Hine's a modernist.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
04:22 / 12.04.05
Actually, Chaos Mass 'H' is in Prime Chaos. Having participated in performances of it a few times I have found it to be jolly good fun.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
07:58 / 12.04.05
Are you a scholar of ladies makeup? If so, then according to the editorial blurb, this is the book for you. Snap it up in an instant.

Otherwise, go for the Phil Hine books.
 
 
Seth
08:39 / 12.04.05
Definitely the Hine book. Although I'm interested as to how it came down to a choice between these two.
 
 
illmatic
09:40 / 12.04.05
Post-modern magick is an eclectic and deconstructionist non-system of reality shaping.

*barf*


Actually, there are a several books by a channelled discarnte entity called Seth. Has he moved into the CM market as well?
 
 
Katherine
09:47 / 12.04.05
I second or third Phil Hine's book...

But if you check out his website (philhine.org.uk I think)there are a couple of downloadable pdf's of his you can read which would give you a flavour of what his work is like.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
10:15 / 12.04.05
I haven't read 'Postmodern Magic' or even taken a cursory glance through its pages, so I'm not in any position to pass judgement on this book specifically. It might have some really interesting stuff in it.

However I'm really suspicious of any text on magic that beats you about the head with how edgy, stylish, iconoclastic, eclectic, post-modern and futurist it is, without seeming to present any new perspectives or ideas to back that up that haven't been widespread in the occult community for a good twenty years. It just seems like the title comes first with this sort of book, as opposed to the author actually having something new or interesting to communicate based on their own personal experiences of magic.

I'm not really aiming this at 'postmodern magic', having not read it and therefore not being at liberty to comment, but more generally at the current glut of post-chaos magic books that seem to spend an awful lot of time marketing themselves as 'the new exciting thing' without actually having very many new ideas or innovations to substantiate the tawdry glamour they are pimping.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
10:36 / 12.04.05
And postmodernsim is just so passé...
 
 
buttergun
12:59 / 12.04.05
Thanks for the replies. All of you have pretty much confirmed my original feelings -- that I should just go with Hine's book. I'm not even sure how I came across "Post-Modern Magick," but somehow the title stuck in my head, and I considered getting it.

As for Peter Carroll's books, I've never read any of them, either. Years ago I was interested in picking one up, but then a letter got published in the Invisibles "Invisible Ink" column where some guy had taken Grant's advice and tried out chaos magic, but found "Liber Kaos" to be "control-freak power-worshipping philosophy," and then went on to bash it some more.

How do they rate against Hine's book?
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
13:12 / 12.04.05
if Pete Carroll's a rocker ( leather, long hair, and, crucially, an apparently totally unjustified contempt for his fellow man, ) Hine's a modernist.

Phil Hine is indeed the Ace Face of contemporary occultism and can often be seen leading the tantrik mods scooter club down to Brighton during the summer for its annual clashes with Peter Carroll's mathemagical grease brigade and Alan Moore's moon and serpent motorcycle boys. Phil leads the pack with his impeccable tailoring, gleaming Vespa and vicious left hook, and many a dirty leather rocker has come a cropper late at night in a deranged frenzy of cheap amphetamines and driving northern soul anthems. I am eagerly awaiting his forthcoming book "Condensed Shiv Fighting".
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:26 / 12.04.05
Gypsy, are you sure you're not Stewart Home in disguise?
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:53 / 12.04.05
...crucially, an apparently totally unjustified contempt for his fellow man

I think this is a bit unfair on poor old Pete. Okay, he's not exactly a bubbly, effusive extrovert, but he is a man of wit & humour - even if his jokes are on the dry side now and then.
 
 
illmatic
14:22 / 12.04.05
Pete Caroll's Liber Null was the book that kicked off Chaos Magick, and is well worth reading, especially if you think about the time it was written - late seventies. Challenged lots of prevalent occult ideas, popularised Austin Spare etc

I think that's what several of us object to about that Seth book - he's claiming to do the same thing 25 years later, with out a shred of evidence to back it up - other than a load of jargon. Of course, I'd like to be proved wrong, I'd love his book to be a fevered creative ferment of incredible ideas but judging from the blurb, it'll be a load of deriative crap in postmod cybergoth pajamas.

Caroll's follow up Liber Kaos is, well - it's kinda like all the creativity went into the first part of the book, the physics, and the magical sections, I found a bit dull. If you like pop science and mad physics, you might like it. Still worth reading though. It's like all these books, try out what they suggest but priortise your own experience.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
16:16 / 12.04.05
But surely we should be er, supporting new authors rather than just rejecting them on the basis of some blurb which might not even have been written by them? Download Liber Null (link on the pdfs thread) and spend a few $ buying "Post-Modern Magick" - it's even available as a pdf download from Amazon.
 
 
Unconditional Love
16:49 / 12.04.05
Pop Culture Magick: An Exploration of Modern Magick
Taylor Elwood, Storm Constantine (Editor)


Synopsis
Pop Culture Magick is about a new approach to doing magick. The author recognize that in this day and age the truly flexible magician is the magician who adapts with the times and as such Pop Culture Magick is a reflection of the need for magick to adapt to the times. Ideas for practical magick can come from many unusual sources and Pop Culture Magick is about opening the mind of the magician to the idea that pop culture is one such source. In this book you will learn: How to create pop culture god forms and entities; How to invoke yourself into a godform; How to create practical techniques based off of TV shows, comics, and other forms of pop culture media; How to charge your sigils by playing video games; How to create your own system of magick based off of fantasy books, TV shows, or any other form of pop culture media.


this isnt a new idea, but i like the sound of it, and that its all collected in one place.

plus by establishing workings within ones own culture, you dont have to steal from a less familiar culture and risk misinterpreting ideas from that culture, or trying to assimilate those ideas into an already westernised personality, ie other cultures ideas dont become politicised in a certain way, or related too through a western spiritual sensitivity which can to a certain extent christianise or neo paganise external philosophies.

it seems to utilise the language of chaos, but has the potential to move away from it entirely, elvisey by jack womack comes to mind.
 
 
Chiropteran
16:53 / 12.04.05
I just really appreciate that Post-Modern Magick is reaching out to all the "rouge scholars" on the underground path of evolution. The razor's edge of modern occultism, where Hermetics meets Cosmetics.

~L
 
 
Katherine
18:48 / 12.04.05
It appears from a brief nose about Amazon that Seth has released a number of books has anyone here read any of them? There's Blood Magick and Tactical Magick to name two.

I haven't actually heard of this author before and I hate trusting amazon reviews. So anyone got any clues?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:11 / 12.04.05
I hate to sound snotty but having looked at the reviews, there's a bit of a flavour of... dare I say it... Well, you know Wicca and Silver Ravenwolf? Like that.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:15 / 12.04.05
...But with Blood and Tactics and War instead of pink marabou and txt mssgng. Obviously.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
21:28 / 12.04.05
Seth's website
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
21:31 / 12.04.05
Well, now, there's nothing wrong with having your website hosted free on chaosmagic.com. I'm thinking of getting one myself.
 
 
Unconditional Love
22:39 / 12.04.05
the first 25 pages of pop culture magick
 
 
Unconditional Love
22:45 / 12.04.05
p.s it takes a while for the page to come down, but eventually....
 
 
Unconditional Love
22:57 / 12.04.05
reviews of pop culture magick lifted from taylor elwoods site>


Pop Culture Magick Reviewed in Pagan Muse, 5 out of 5 stars!
Being of the generation X grouping, I found Taylor Ellwood's Pop Culture Magick to be highly thematic for the times. I can't be the only one who sees the necessity of the subject, nor the obvious validity of the magickal path he describes. I have children who watch Anime, I play an RPG with magickal connotations; from where do folks suppose the mythos and magick for those current cultural icons come from? It didn't just appear on its own..

Uh huh, I thought so - your brain is working now, isn't it?

Taylor has, in a quiet way, forced minds to work. I have to wonder how many "Ah HA!"s sounded across campuses and in homes after the book was released. Even though I had made those cross-references in playing the games and watching the Anime with the kids, I caught myself saying "Of course!" and "How could I have missed that before?".

Even Bugs Bunny is not immune to observation and scrutiny - and finding the archetype within the cell.

Taylor has found the bridge between generations and explained the path in such a way that no one should be able to walk away from the book confused. Just watch an episode of Pokemon, you'll see it.

by ierne Editor - Pagan Muse



Review of Pop Culture Magick by Vaughan of Pagannews.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You can use Pokemon characters as points of focus for ritual if you really want. Taylor Ellwood's new book Pop Culture Magick explores this concept in a lot more depth., examining ways that we can use contemporary icons in place of deities from ancient times. Undoubtedly, some people will be offended by this concept. For that reason, I think that this book would be most beneficial for those people that are quite far along in their personal spiritual path, and have come to realize that the public images of Britney Spears, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Captain Kirk are clearly egregors; Constructs worshipped on a daily basis and on a much larger scale than Isis or Dagda or Thor (unless you're talking about the Thor from Marvel Comics). In this books the author forces us to face the truth of that, and it is a truth that many people may not be ready or willing to accept.

It is clear that the author has studied a lot of the different genres in detail, because there are an incredible number of references from Advanced Dungeons & Dragons to Star Trek.

For those readers that can get past the obvious paradox of not wanting to accept pop culture idols as actual idols, Ellwood includes several useful pathworking exercises, suggestions for franchies to use as a base pantheon (Star Wars, Dragonball Z etc) and also shows us how to set up a Pop Culture Altar. The meat of the book is in the first 161 pages, followed by the seven appendices that provide a lot of useful reference information. It is a relatively quick read, although it will take longer if you pause to do the exercises at the end f each chapter. All in all, I enjoyed this book. I don't think I am ready to set up an altar to Arthur Dent in the hope that he can provide me with the Question to the Answer of Life, The Universe and Everything (the answer being `42'). But the book has certainly given me food for thought and discussion. In the final analysis, that is really what matters...



Pop Culture Magick by Taylor Ellwood Reviewed by Gwinevere Rain
If you read the last issue of Copper Moon E-zine you may have come across a unique article that involved a melding of Harry Potter and real magick. Who would come up with such a different concept? Two words - Taylor Ellwood. He is the author of Pop Culture Magick. In this book we see an analysis of contemporary culture icons with magick intertwined.

The underlying theory isn't bubblegum witchcraft but instead more occult philosophy. On page 51 the author writes, "When you or I believe in a concept, we give it reality and when a lot of people believe in it, they give it power."

Topics range from TV characters, Sci-fi shows, cartoons, comics and video games. It is important to note that this isn't directly a Wicca book. Where as some practitioners may be interested in utilizing this eclectic format its overall theme is an occult based system of magick.

Most notable is Ellwood's authentic passion for this subject. I applaud his creativity and willingness to challenge traditional views.



Review of Pop Culture Magick By Shade Ouroborous For SilverStar Magazine
Here we have a remarkable examination of the possibilities of developing a magical system based on the active images of the 21st century. All Pop Culture is essentially a form of outsider art, revolutionary by nature if not always by intent, ripe for the exploitation of the Spectacle that blinds the masses, but not yet absorbed into the mainstream. The cliques of gamers and fanboys who explore comix, manga, Japanese anime, role-playing or computer games are creating a whole new mythology, and an archetype in a new form retains primordial power while providing the thrill of novelty. Drawing on the surprising implications of psychology, technology, Chaos and sigil magick as well as the work of mages such as William G. Gray, Stephen Mace and Hakim Bey, Mr. Ellwood has really produced some unique ideas, carefully and systematically explored step-by-step. Jung’s Collective Unconscious just isn’t what it used to be… Our reality is formed by our environment, and that inevitably includes television and film, music and magazines, computer and video games. Can we assume the god-form of Superman or Xena, Warrior Princess? Do superhero costumes create effects through the same color codes employed in sorcery? Can we weave sigils into our collages and implant them into interactive gaming networks? Are the characters in fantasy novels or the complex and occasionally inscrutable metaphysics of anime now manifesting the spirits of old? Are the magicks of media replacing the doctrines of religion? Are the cards of Magic: The Gathering comparable to the Tarot? Strange thoughts for the traditionalist, perhaps, but we live in times of rapid and radical change. For the open-minded, this is an extremely thought-provoking book. How modern can magick truly become?
 
 
--
02:17 / 13.04.05
It's probably the slimmest book on my occult shelf: If you take out the blank pages, it's only about 57 or so pages. It's split into four "libers" with chapter titles like "Reality Hacker", "The Astral", "Goth", and so on. THe fourth liber is nothing more then a page of famous occult books to serve as reference to the reader, and it's almost all old-school: "Book of the Law", "Ambraelin the Mage", "Greater & Lesser Keys of Solomon", and so on. It appears that the "Book of the Law" is his most modern reference.

It's really not very good, perhaps because it's so lacking in content. For example, for the topic of "Art & Music", all he has to say on that subject is this: "These mediums are also just as effective at producing, channeling, and expressing magic as they are emotion and thought. Listen to the tribal music of the ancients and you will know. Read some folk myth and you will know". Er... Okay. There's also some stuff about a war across the Multiverse (he says "believe me when I tell you...", which should set off alarms), magical terrorism, goth glamour, the power of coffee, some bad poetry, a transcript of a ceremonial working, a list of spells... Frankly it's all very vague, written in a dry style without much humor, and seems very old-fashioned, despite it's title. If you're looking for a good old-fashioned braingasm, look elsewhere.
 
 
Alex's Grandma
04:27 / 13.04.05
Has anyone else read 'City Magick' by Christopher Penczak ?

It's just that I think that maybe some of you guys might benefit from Penczak's wisdom.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
04:43 / 13.04.05
Yeah, I've read that un and Gay Witchcraft by Penczak and I thought they were both bloody awful. He did a talk in the UK recently and people were getting up and walking out.
 
 
Unconditional Love
10:35 / 13.04.05
i got to thinking about pop magick culture and why i find the idea so attractive, i think because its not unlike ideas i have had myself, also because i spent 3 years as a media student it seems to tie into me quite well, the whole terrain to me is very familiar its something ive consumed through out my life, having made attempts to give up mediated life entirely, ive found i am not that ascetic in nature and need the symbol systems as communication points.

i would also like to start considering computer games as functional magickal environments, which he mentions, sigilisation of a character costume design in a mmorpg.
i am thinking along the lines of ritual performed by a group of players within a mmorpg using the game environment, fantasy medieval would be perfect, i am wondering if it is possible to transfer will and intent through an avatar in a graphical environment.

comments.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:03 / 13.04.05
Direct download link to excerpt from Pop Culture Magick pdf.

As an initial observation, I think it's a bit odd that he says Some of these authors, such as William G. Gray and Stephen Mace are almost unknown in today's contemporary occult world 'specially when you consider that Gray's books have been almost continually in print since the late '60's and Stephen Mace's self-published stuff has been circulating for nearly 20 years now.
 
 
buttergun
13:08 / 13.04.05
Sypha, were you talking about Post-Modern Magick or Pop Culture Magic?

Alex, I was also going to ask about City Magick. There's actually an older thread on here about that book. Apparently the author was inspired by "The Invisibles," and wanted to focus more attention on the part in Volume 1 where Tom O'Bedlam shows Dane "the hidden London."
 
 
illmatic
13:23 / 13.04.05
Trousers: I sort of see what he means with Mace, I'd guess that not that many people on here have read him. Might be wrong. He does seem one of the lesser known "Chaos" associated authors largely 'cos he doesn't have an internet presence I'd imagine.
 
 
trouser the trouserian
13:38 / 13.04.05
He does seem one of the lesser known "Chaos" associated authors largely 'cos he doesn't have an internet presence I'd imagine.

You're probably right ... bit sad tho' isn't it when a good author doesn't get read or discussed 'cos he hasn't got a website or free pdfs of his books? BTW, his books Stealing the Fire from Heaven, Squeezing Being and Sorcery as Virtual Mechanics are all available from Dagon Productions
 
 
A0S
13:42 / 13.04.05
Sorcery as Virtual Mechanics by Stephen Mace is a great book.
 
  

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