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White boy. Can't dance. Please help.

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10:49 / 23.02.05

I find this thread a little odd, almost quaint, but that's probably because I grew up with the UK rave scene, when huge swathes of a generation grew confident on the dance floor by not giving a shit. Arms were flailed, legs were bent and nobody looked twice (except at my friend - see above).

The notion that you had to learn to dance didn't enter into our thinking, you just did it. The emphasis was on dancing as fun, rather than dancing as spectacle.

The thing is, I'm not sure those crazy days haven't left a lasting impression on our (UK) club scene. As far as I can see, people aren't usually expected to be great dancers*, just not embarassingly bad.

*Okay, there are exceptions. The UK club scene isn't quite as homogensied as I've made out, but I'm making a general point.

11:22 / 23.02.05

The notion that you had to learn to dance didn't enter into our thinking, you just did it. The emphasis was on dancing as fun, rather than dancing as spectacle.

At last, a voice of reason.

STOP FUCKING THINKING ABOUT IT SO MUCH AND JUST DO IT.

Try listening to different aspects of the music, there might be one part of the composition that effects you more than others, one aspect that you can feel the most. It may not be the same thing that everyone else seems to be dancing to. Try to feel it inside you and just move with it.

IT IS NOT A FUCKING TALENT CONTEST FOR WANKERS

It's about having fun. Dancing is supposed to be fun, joyous, life affirming thing. It shouldnt be about scoring points with an imaginary critic. All of those people on the dancefloor really arent that interested in what you are doing, and if this thread is anything to go by are probably more involved with their own unnecessary paranoia. Just feel the music and dance to it instinctively however you want to. In the unlikely event that someone does take the piss, laugh at them for being so uptight and idiotic. If you are enjoying yourself, that is what is important.

Can I just say again:

IT IS NOT A FUCKING TALENT CONTEST FOR WANKERS

11:30 / 23.02.05

Interesting point about the UK club scene.

VERY important point about the vanity element here.

I grew up in smalltown USA, and that meant school dances that immediately turned into kiddie clubs in Canada. A bit of MTV-inspired sluttiness was(is?) expected, but the task was to reign in your hormones and enthusiasm to look like you belong in the background of a music video's slow cam montage.

I'm not the greatest dancer, but I'm decent enough to look like I belong.

11:33 / 23.02.05

IT IS NOT A FUCKING TALENT CONTEST FOR WANKERS

But it is. It so is.

11:35 / 23.02.05

There a supremely cheesy yet still wonderful quote which I'm sure you've heard; "Dance like nobody's watching."

Do that. It truly shouldn't matter what you look like, and if it does, if the person you go with says, "Ewww, well you're a crap dancer" abandon them because they're not worth dancing with anyway.

These people are generally the same ones who finish relationships on the basis of the fact that their partner developed a spot.

11:41 / 23.02.05

But it is. It so is.

No. It isn't. It really, really isn't.

11:51 / 23.02.05

so is that what clubs and that are like in america? people WILL point/laugh/judge/cast stones etc.? sounds rubbish.

i think you could probably learn a lot from watching footloose, but also a lot more from the aforementioned 'clubbing' episode of 'spaced'.

what kind of club is it (if you know which one the girlfriend wants to go to)? is it drinky, druggy? what kind of music do they play?

12:14 / 23.02.05

but the task was to reign in your hormones and enthusiasm to look like you belong in the background of a music video's slow cam montage.

The task? Dancing is about having fun and feeling the music in your body. It's not supposed to be a "task". No wonder you people are conscious of the fact that you look like idiots if you think that dancing is supposed to be this soulless, conservative, imitation of a half-remembered MTV video, filled with insipid shufflings, constant self criticism, and crushed spirits. Fuck all of that. You are as wrong as wrong can be. Dancing is a natural human function that expresses joy. It doesn't matter a damn what else is happening in the space you're in. It's not something you have to "learn" or "practice" (unless you're planning on becoming a northern soul floorwork champion or equivalent), just dance to the music as you will, unselfconsciously, unafraid, with the passion and joy of being alive. Do you constantly speculate about how it might look if you were on film when you're making love as well?

I'm not the greatest dancer, but I'm decent enough to look like I belong.

Belong to what exactly? The human race?

12:29 / 23.02.05

Just to bring a little balance, the dancefloor isn't just about dancing, is it?

Dancefloors can be a space to meet to people, or, more specifically, a place to attract people you're attracted to. In this context "good dancing" *can* be an aid.

Also, dancing can be used to foster a sense of community by sharing common "moves" or, less specifically, obeying certain rules: breakdancing is an example of the former, "making shapes" to techno an example of the latter.

There's lots more here, but I think I've made my point.

12:36 / 23.02.05

more specifically, a place to attract people you're attracted to. In this context "good dancing" *can* be an aid.

My point being that good dancing, all good dancing flows from relaxing and enjoying yourself, not beating yourself up over whatever else may or may not be happening in the minds of other people who may or may not be looking in your direction. Even if you're in possession of John Travolta's secret manual of mystical dance steps and have learnt them all off by heart, if you forget the bit about having fun, relaxing, letting go, enjoying the music and the movement of your body, etc... then you will dance badly.

12:45 / 23.02.05

I think that's totally spot on Gypsy, but there's something to be said for loosening yourself up with the suggestions above, to get yourself to the point where you're capable of letting go, enjoying yourself and removing the barrier between what you want to do and what your body (for one reason or another) can actually do.

12:50 / 23.02.05

Word up.

13:07 / 23.02.05

Gypsy:

Wrong as wrong can be? Are you having a rough day, or just absolutely resistant to understanding me?

You're in London, he's in Texas. Rules are different. Dancing, if you are insecure about how you move, isn't fun, isn't joyous, and certainly not life-affirming. We have to give the guy tools he can use. You gotta fit in before you can break out, right?

And a club dancefloor totally is a contest, like Bobossboy says. Especially for wankers. Granted, I was being silly, but you're being rancorous. I agree with everything you wrote and stated about dancing being natural and stuff, but that's a big leap for wallflowers. Have some tea.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:12 / 23.02.05

If Barbelith is a disease, Gypsy Lantern is the cure.

Why was it inevitable that some Lither on this thread would say: "just watch a black man because they have natural rhythm"? Consider that question.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:19 / 23.02.05

I mean, really. It is not a talent contest for wankers. If you buy into the idea that it is, then you are doomed to either be a) a wanker clogging up the dancefloor, or b) the type of misanthropic malcontent who thinks anyone who has a shred of confidence in themselves or the ability to loosen up for a few moments at a time is a wanker.

13:22 / 23.02.05

no-one said that. you're lazily paraphrasing to fit your 'i see racists' pathology.

maybe it would be best for you if you left again?

13:24 / 23.02.05

Who said to watch black men for rhythm?

13:36 / 23.02.05

also: b) the type of misanthropic malcontent who thinks anyone who has a shred of confidence in themselves or the ability to loosen up for a few moments at a time is a wanker.

Huh? I meant wanker thinking of the "Night at the Roxbury" chumps. They're the club types who make it a contest. Confidence and loosening up doesn't make wankers. It makes it fun. But Charrelz is a post-headbanger uncomfortable with girlfriendly clubs. These are just pointers.

13:38 / 23.02.05

Rules are different.

No, they're not.

And a club dancefloor totally is a contest

No, it isn't.

Dancing is by definition a fun, joyous, life-affirming thing. Approach it otherwise and it ceases to be dancing, and more of a soulless, horrific, ugly movement of warm meat around a cruel, garishly lit space for some curious and unknown purpose. There can be nothing wrong with your dancing if you're enjoying it, and enjoying it is the point of dancing. That's all there is to it. Everything else is a neurosis around the subject.

Regrettable Juvenilia

13:44 / 23.02.05

I'm sure it would be best for me if I left again, but I live to serve, gumbitch. For example, I help you to read good. Previous page, Count Adam:

Now, in pretty much every single one of these movies that feature dancing, one of the dancing participants will be an African-American gentleman of more than considerable girth. He will probably be wearing a cool hat. This man is your dance instructor.

Watch this guy.

13:45 / 23.02.05

So now we're defining "dancing."

Jesus. Fine. You want to keep saying dancing is this pure unadulterated expression of the human experience, cool. Charrelz, have fun. Do what Gyspy says. Doing otherwise would be ugly and horrific, and you don't want to be that, do you?

14:03 / 23.02.05

What Adam is doing is refrencing a well-known movie stereotype. It's pretty much a fact that in movies such as these, african americans are great dancers. By pointing this out he is not making a racist comment but is using cultural reference. He's not saying that all african americans are good dancers. Simply that, regardless of reason, most are within these movies. That's just a simple fact.

Would you be as annoyed if he had told us to look out for the white-haired, blue-jeaned kid from the big city, who's moved to small town america with his aunt to stay out of trouble?

14:04 / 23.02.05

White-haired????

Well, that too.

14:10 / 23.02.05

Bruce Forsyth is going to be pissed when he finds out you guys have been calling him a wanker.

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:13 / 23.02.05

Meludreen, all of that would be wonderfully relevant had I said that anyone had made a racist comment. Focus on what I say and not what dribbles from gumbit and you'll see that the only adjective I used was "inevitable".

14:27 / 23.02.05

Okay, so you're saying it's inevitable that someone on Barbelith makes a racist comment? I'm not going to step first. Break it down a bit more please, Flyboy.

14:27 / 23.02.05

the questions are do you know what looks good, and are you dangerously vain?

No, I have no clue whatsoever what looks good, and I'm dangerously self-critical.

GL: I understand what you're saying, but it isn't exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for. I know about letting go and having a good time. My problem is I have no clue what sort of things I should be doing out there while I'm having fun. So far I've got move to the rhythm, and have fun and feel the music in your body. I'm picturing myself jumping on one foot, flailing my arms around, moving my shoulders alot, and making screeching noises, all in time to the music (and without biting my lip). Now, that does sound like fun, but I'm pretty sure it's not what I'm aiming for here.

Granted, I understand that this is something rather hard to put into words, so I'm not terribly upset that I haven't found the advice I was looking for. 60% of my reason for posting was I knew some would get a laugh from it. Though I didn't expect it to turn into an argument over racism.

14:28 / 23.02.05

It does appear to inevitably descend into...er...this whenever you are posting. How is it now a battle about Racism when people were just (seriously, just) talking about dancing?

I agree with Gypsy still. Really stop thinking about what you look like, and instead just feel the music. Then you really will be dancing, and then it really will be OK.

14:30 / 23.02.05

Sorry - that directed to Flyboy

14:32 / 23.02.05

Yes, but there isn't a broader racist narrative about the white haired boy.

I'm sure that Adam wasn't intending to be racist, but he was playing fast and loose with a rather nasty sterotype.

Gypsy, I'm with you, pal (in the main), but I don't agree with this.

There can be nothing wrong with your dancing if you're enjoying it, and enjoying it is the point of dancing. That's all there is to it. Everything else is a neurosis around the subject.

As I've already argued, I'm not sure that "enjoying it" is always the point of dancing, and, as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with that.

I think you *can* get it wrong with dancing. We can behave more or less appropriately - depending on context - when we dance. To take an extreme example, say I'm taking a ballet exam, would it be appropriate for me to start Up Rocking? Further down the scale we find Chad's example: "Texas". I don't know what's expected of me on a Texas dancefloor but it looks like there are certain rules that are best not broken if I don't want to be negatively judged.

For me dancing is the same as any other human activity, you can get it right or you can get it wrong, with the rightness and wrongness being dictated by the context. I've just been lucky enough to have been brought up in a culture where the rules of the dancefloor are very broad and the emphasis is on enjoyment rather than looking cool!!11!!.

14:40 / 23.02.05

what kind of club is it (if you know which one the girlfriend wants to go to)? is it drinky, druggy? what kind of music do they play?
I found out the name of the place she's wanting. Lucky for me, she lost her ID, so I've got a little more time.

It truly shouldn't matter what you look like, and if it does, if the person you go with says, "Ewww, well you're a crap dancer" abandon them because they're not worth dancing with anyway. These people are generally the same ones who finish relationships on the basis of the fact that their partner developed a spot.

I'm not worried about her leaving me because I'm a shit dancer, but I would like to dance well for her. I've got a whole bag full of other things I'm trying to work through right now, and I thought correcting my dancing problem would be a nice little gesture to show "Look, I really can fix something about myself, see! I'm a fully functioning human willing to put effort into a relationship!" Dancing isn't really crucial to the relationship, I'm just trying to do something nice for my girlfriend.

14:42 / 23.02.05

I'm sure that Adam wasn't intending to be racist, but he was playing fast and loose with a rather nasty sterotype.

No he wasn't. He was pointing out that there is, if you like, a 'rather nasty stereotype' depicted in films between A and B period, who always seem to impress the ladies with their dance moves and who should therefore be copied.

I don't see how that means Flyboy can arrive flinging cries of Racism everywhere and I don't think you are correct in saying he wasn't 'intending' to be Racist. He simply wasn't being.

The post in question copied below for reference.

What you need to do is this- rent yourself some movies that are set in the USA at some point between the onset of Prohibition and the onset of rock'n'roll, and that are likely to feature some dancing in them.

Now, in pretty much every single one of these movies that feature dancing, one of the dancing participants will be an African-American gentleman of more than considerable girth. He will probably be wearing a cool hat. This man is your dance instructor.

Watch this guy. He's too big to pull off fancy moves of any sort, but, by god, he's the King of the dance floor. Look! He's dancing with the hottest lady in the place.

He just stays rooted to the spot, shakes side to side a little, and spins his dancing partner all around the place.

Do what this guy does. He gets all kinds of action.

14:51 / 23.02.05

charrell, you can definitely take ecstasy at that club by the looks of things, so perhaps you should (if this is amenable morally etc.)? it is the drug for making the dancefloor your home. plus, post-club post-pills cuddles an thing? best part of the evening usually.

15:07 / 23.02.05

'rather nasty stereotype'

Lula, to be fair I don't think he was making any kind of value judgement. Rather, he was pointing to a cultural artifact and suggesting that that way lies cool dance tips.

I'm running the risk of having double standards. It was only recently that I defended a not dissimilar post over in Comics, although that post was pretty obviously a humorous dig at the representation of Japanese characters in superhero comics.

15:10 / 23.02.05

I don't think he was making any kind of value judgement.

At least he wasn't making a value judgement that I can clearly identify.

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