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Please Get Over The Invisibles

 
  

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19:59 / 08.11.04
Ok Dudley, and thanks for the reply, but I'm not your boss.
 
 
w1rebaby
21:21 / 08.11.04
I did try, didn't I? Didn't I try?
 
 
alas
21:59 / 08.11.04
Can we

Please get over

ourselves?

Please?
 
 
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22:31 / 08.11.04
I did try, didn't I? Didn't I try?

Yep. I pushed it no further after you posted warning me and it still came back in my face. My bad for bringing it up in the first place. Still tryin'a work out how Icke got into it.....no wait a minute : It no longer matters.

I know what I mean in my head and I did just explain it in a post that actually made sense, but then I deleted it and this paragraph is here instead. I no longer care.
 
 
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22:37 / 08.11.04
And Fridge, I liked the possum. I clicked on the site and found that my favourite was the Green Ringtail Possum, but a bigger picture wouldn't come up when I clicked. Anyone interested should google where if I'm right the Green Ringtail Possum picture from the same site does actually come up....yes it does.
 
 
Spatula Clarke
23:34 / 08.11.04
Jesus fucking Christ, Jack. Let. It. Go. This is *precisely* what I was saying earlier about derailing threads. If you really feel the need to do it, can you at least do it in single posts?
 
 
bjacques
08:06 / 09.11.04
It looks like a matter of finding your place on the continuum from random independent action to The Conspiracy. Personally, I think stupidity, laziness and greed control the world's baddies as effectively as any Archons or Ickean lizard-men; they're all acting on the same wave-length, so they'll act the same way, recognize each other and make (usually temporary) alliances. Traffic flows smoothly along the shining path of least resistance.

It looks like warnings about electronic voting and voter harassment came true, but it's not clear fixing them would have changed any outcomes. Kerry and Bush carried populous states by larger margins than would have been affected by fraud or error. Local conspiracies bred their own resistance. Democrats were prepared for Republican intimidation and they mostly counteracted it. States that had paper trails for Diebold machines seem to have confirmed the counts. I may be wrong about any or all of the above, but I think that's how it went.

There was certainly a conspiracy to entice Americans into a Middle Eastern crusade, but the conspirators--PNAC and others--have been fairly open about their plans. PNAC published their positions as early as the 1990s. By now everybody who cares knows about Leo Strauss.

But all that will come to nothing--democracy doesn't grow on the point of a sword (how can Iraqi parties campaign under martial law lasting to the elections?). Conspiracy (small "c") is a human activity. Humans fuck up. Only mythical--notional at best--superhuman beings like Archons, Deros and lizard men could run a Conspiracy that controls everything and doesn't fuck up. Except in The Invisibles they still do fuck up.

Conspiracies and conspiracy theories are inherently flawed because the ideas that govern them are closed. All of a conspiracy's actions are governed by those fixed ideas, while from the outside all events are attributed to the conspiracy. When reality sufficiently disagrees with a conspiracy it collapses; when it disagrees with a conspiracy theorist, that person is certifiably nuts.

Thanks, Perfect Tommy, for that purple link. It's better than the one I've found that shades only the states. People are hypnotizing themselves and/or others on the basis of that stupid Red/Blue map. Edward Tufte would have a field day with it. It's great for propaganda because it makes the US look big and red. Real scary. But it tells you nothing about population density, closeness of the vote or even electoral college votes. It makes Montana look like it has more votes than New Jersey, e.g.
 
 
bjacques
08:20 / 09.11.04
The Invisibles was and is a ripping yarn. It's got some good ideas in it and it's got some howlers (Kula Shaker?). But it's just a ride. If you take it all literally and make it your whole universe then you're falling into the pitfalls of conspiracy thinking.

As for what to do, I agree with Jack. Most everybody here has friends or at least relatives who voted for Bush or his local equivalent. With few exceptions, you can't just write them off. You probably won't convince anybody anytime soon, but you can get them to question their politics over time. My dad was as conservative as they come until his government and the company he's retired from tried to fiddle with his pension.


The personal is much more than the political. The right wing have managed to capture that '90s cult-stud mantra just like they did '60s rhetoric, so why stick with it? Friends get harder to make as you get older and even relatives die off. At least remember their birthdays.

Eventually Bush and his pals will rot in the dustbin of history. Don't let your relationships with your--for now, deluded--friends and relatives join them.
 
 
bjacques
08:22 / 09.11.04
But if anybody planned to liberate that Harmony House down in Jamaica, that'd be pretty cool.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
09:17 / 09.11.04
Christ... Frosty... you must have a vocational qualification in digging completely unnecessary bottomless pits for yourself and then jumping wildly into them. I'm starting to veer back towards my suspicion that you are not a real person but a 5-dimensional trickster being sent here to test us. I mean... this is a thread looking at how conspiracy theories in fiction can often obfuscate less glamourous but infinitely more relevant political issues. It's an emotive subject for people who take a practical activist position on current affairs. Did you really think raising the twin spectres of the jewish conspiracy and Ike's lizard men was going to endear anybody to your position? That is unfathomably insane.

As a magical exercise, starting in January 05, I suggest you spend twelve months disassociating from the conspiracy mindset that you obviously have a very strong, perhaps chronic, attachment to. Adopt the opposite perspective and see what you can learn from it. Do not believe anything that cannot be substantiated with solid evidence. I know this doesnt come naturally to you, and that's exactly why I'm suggesting that you do it. Magic should push you into spaces that you don't want to go. Supplement this experiment with the following practices:

1. Politely ask the people you are currently arguing with to recommend you 3 books that they feel will make you better informed about their argument and position. Read the books. These will be your magical grimoires for the year.

2. Everytime you read a thread in the Temple, supplement this perspective by reading a thread in the Switchboard and/or Head Shop. You don't need to post or contribute to the debate. Just read them and quietly absorb as many different perspectives on the issues discussed therein as you can.

3. Start a thread in the Temple that will function as a public record/magical journal of your responses to this experiment in altering your consciousness.

You will be a better magician for it. I know you like the crazy sci-fi stuff, but take it from someone who does communicate with invisible multi-dimensional entities: you ain't on the right track with this stuff .

Oh, and change your name back to "Cosmic Fireman". I liked that one best.
 
 
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10:44 / 09.11.04
Jesus fucking Christ, Jack. Let. It. Go. This is *precisely* what I was saying earlier about derailing threads. If you really feel the need to do it, can you at least do it in single posts?

Ok man, seriously, ok.

Christ... Frosty... you must have a vocational qualification in digging completely unnecessary bottomless pits for yourself and then jumping wildly into them.

Yeah man I know. I'm totally gobsmacked about it and have been thinking about it all morning at work.

I'm starting to veer back towards my suspicion that you are not a real person but a 5-dimensional trickster being sent here to test us.

I'd love that, I really would. But to think that would only be feeding my ego, and I can't do that at this fragile time for myself. Cheers (again!) for the advice though, like I said in the Temple : if I ever meet you on a future barbmeet or anything I owe you tons of drinks.

Oh, and change your name back to "Cosmic Fireman". I liked that one best.

I'm about to change it shortly, but I didn't really like that one because I started obsessing over the fire element. (I really shouldn't obsess over the fire element.) I need to lose the Frost again though, it's driving me mad because I only associate with the young Frost and not the mature one.

Enough of me anyway, it's grating on my brain. On with the thread! This is turning out to be interesting. (hope I don't kill it by saying that.)
 
 
alas
11:06 / 09.11.04
Could somebody please remind me what we were talking about?
 
 
Spaniel
12:01 / 09.11.04
So then, Frosty, what do you think of Lantern's suggestions?
 
 
Papess
12:38 / 09.11.04
But this talk of red states and blue states obscures the purple nation.

What about the mauve nation? They are always being left out. hehe

Maybe it would be more productive to start another thread on the actual commmon ground where the red and blue policy actually overlaps and make purple policy. (I am aware of the fact, of course, that the demographics on the map that Perfect Tommy linked us to represents votes and not opinion polls). We can come up with the Purple Platform of Reconciliation.

Let's get create harmony in our political spectrum.

Well, in theory, anyway.

P.S: I am so not qualified to start a thread like this. So, I leave it to the more sagacious and politically savvy to initiate, if they wish to. I think it would be an interesting read, though.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
14:11 / 09.11.04
I've lost track.
Have we got over the Invisibles yet?
 
 
_Boboss
14:18 / 09.11.04
GET OVER IT!

TYPE TO THE HAND!

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW ME AND MY FAMILY RIGHT!?

Everyone write like they talk on Trisha! It's so good! Do it. Doo-itt.

Duit.
 
 
Papess
14:23 / 09.11.04
Remind me... who are the Invisibles again, Stoatie?
 
 
Tryphena Absent
15:06 / 09.11.04
This thread is so much better if you play the Bewitched theme tune while you're reading it.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:08 / 09.11.04
ooh, I'm not sure I can remember, BarbeLilith...

I'm pretty sure the bassist was called Paul. Or maybe "Sir" Paul. And the drummer had a funny name.
 
 
Papess
15:28 / 09.11.04
Hmm, yeah...I think I know who you are talking about, Stoats. Whatever happened to them?
 
 
haus of fraser
15:31 / 09.11.04
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:34 / 09.11.04
As far as I remember, frogs.
 
 
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15:36 / 09.11.04
So then, Frosty, what do you think of Lantern's suggestions?

They are very wise suggestions, and I'm really thinking about it. The only downside is that it would mean creating threads solely about myself and I'm not to keen on that, I like threads that we can all learn from and contribute to, but yes, I'm definately trying to generate ideas from what GL has said, because it is really good advice and something that I'd learn a lot from.

Anyway if it's ok with everyone : no more of me in this thread please, because post after post about one person can often get really annoying and timewasting for people reading stuff here, especially when a thread has been derailed in making those posts.
 
 
STOATIE LIEKS CHOCOLATE MILK
15:36 / 09.11.04
ooh! ooh! and a tank engine. Probably hyper-dimensional or something, I expect, but there was definitely a tank engine involved.

I think it talked.
 
 
Papess
15:37 / 09.11.04
Da-da, da-da, daaa, d-d-d-da-da...

Oh, your right, Anna. Actually, everything reads better this way. I think I will go read some of Bush's foreign policy now.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
15:44 / 09.11.04
Remind me... who are the Invisibles again

The Invisibles were a group of telepathic, yet curiously rascally, kittens that populated the fiction of renowned author Wallace Patrick Fingers, who wrote under the penname of Paddy Fingers in the late 1920s. They had numerous exploits across a series of novels and collected short stories, and up until the mid-50s, were a staple of children's literature. Their charming, yet slightly risque, exploits took place in now forgotten tales such as, 'Polly! I Hate Your Rotten Whiskers!', 'Filthy Baxter', 'The Cat that Ate Christmas', 'Who Killed Barbara Longcock?', 'Prison Tattoo', 'A Canticle for Pussy' and 'The Terror of the Cat on Mars'. Sadly, the books fell out of circulation shortly after WW2 and have never been reprinted, following a public scandal involving the author, a gentleman's toilet, six siamese cats and a miniature trainset. The Paddy Fingers Society, set up by the authors grandneice, Ms Geoffrey Fingers, campaigns for reprints of The Invisibles stories in the hope that these lost classics can reach and traumatise a new generation of children.
 
 
Gypsy Lantern
16:00 / 09.11.04
The only downside is that it would mean creating threads solely about myself and I'm not to keen on that, I like threads that we can all learn from and contribute to

So do it anyway, but don't start any threads about it? I suggested you start a thread in the temple recording your responses to this experiment because I thought it might make for an interesting reading. We would be observing how someone responds to behavioural change exercises, and it would show whether you are capable of engaging in a transformative process, which I'd like to think you are. You could also receive the benefit of encouragement, advice, information and support from other people on barbelith as you go about it. A thread would provide a focus for this experiment and keep your momentum running so it doesn't fizzle out. I reckon it would be a good thing for you to have a crack at. Take it or leave it.
 
 
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16:13 / 09.11.04
I suppose I could do it, but I'll PM you later on about it Gypsy because there's a couple of Magick orientated issues that I'm not sure about connected to the idea of doing it.
 
 
Papess
16:46 / 09.11.04
Gypsy, you are evil. *wink*
 
 
PatrickMM
23:16 / 09.11.04
Things got a bit sidetracked, but I think the thesis of this thread, that The Invisibles is of limited value, is way off. So many people fall into the trap of saying that Bush is stupid and evil, when he's not. He's doing what he thinks is best for the country, he's got a clear vision, it's a vision that I think is leading the country awry, but it's a vision nonetheless. And, the people that voted for him aren't evil either, they're just voting what they believe in.

We are in what is essentially the struggle in The Invisibles, between forces of progress, and reactionary forces struggling to retain a status quo they can never keep in check. Forget about the idea of archons being literal, that's not as important as the fact that Bush basically is serving their agenda. But, to get caught up in the idea that he is the enemy is not going to help anything. The best way to change things would be to talk to Bush voters one on one and try to show them that homosexuality isn't wrong, or deviant, and that maybe his tax policies aren't helping you, even though you're getting a tax cut. People will only hate you more if you use violence or violent rhetoric, and that's going to create a greater dichotomy.

And another thing. Bush is the president who doesn't live in the reality based sphere, as talked about in a New York Times article, Bush said that he's going to act, and write history through his action, and not worry about reporters who are in the reality based sphere. If that's not a magickal/Invisible concept, what is?
 
 
Lord Morgue
07:21 / 10.11.04
I prefer the view that, since all the witches on the board, and all the witches THEY know, were willworking for Bush to lose, and he won, that can only mean he has MORE AND BETTER witches on HIS side. Maybe even Jewish Reptoid Witches. Hsss! Oy, such a pain in my tail I get.

Only Rom, Spaceknight can save us now.
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:30 / 10.11.04
I'd like to get over Franke Potente.

Bush can still be stupid and evil without that precluding him trying to do what he thinks is best for America, it just means that he's not going to get beyond the "big guns are kewl!" as a solution to his problems. I don't know whether his history of addictive behaviour and his behaviour in Government (ignoring anything that involves detailed planning towards a future more than a year or two down the line) is indicative of someone who looks only towards their near-immediate gratification, which I think RAW puts as one of the most basic of human needs.
 
 
illmatic
09:25 / 10.11.04
If you want a reading suggestion, Frosty Freeze, I think you should try Robin Ramsey's book on Conspiracy Theories in the Pocketbook Essentials series. Very good.

I also think you should adopt Gypsy as Guru, and make a yearly pilgrimage to Dulwich on foot, bearing gifts.
 
 
illmatic
10:05 / 10.11.04
Possibly also consider getting tattos of his advice, or indeed his face, on various parts of your body.
 
 
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11:04 / 10.11.04
HA! That was funny. Also, I might order that book at the end of the month, but I thought that GL was attempting to get me to be out of my conspiracy mindset. (?)

Erm, can you and Flyboy suggest three books for me please whilst I'm here? I'll probably only be able to buy one but if you suggest three I'll pick one.

Flyboy : as a peace token, reading a book of your suggestion could get me to be less of a conspiracy nut, or at least thinking a little more rationally......Chomsky? Errr No Logo?
 
  

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