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Underground > Comic Books >

Astonishing X-Men #2

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13:08 / 29.06.04

It's too early to tell whether Joss' run is going to be any good? We're on issue #2 and it's not clear yet? With Grants first issue you could tells that it was going to be epic. I bought 114 and it was new; New X-Men was New and fucking brilliant from the word go. Astonishing X-Men on the other hand is stale and bah-bah-boring. I have, at least, seen the error of my ways and now realize that Cassaday is somewhat exceptional, definitely two scoops of genius.

I still have reservations about Joss Whedon, he’s part of an alarming trend that’s making me seasick, that being non-comic writers writing comics. Brian Singer (not a writer, I know), Tarantino, that guy from that Babylon thing etc. I’m not convinced if his writing will ever work outside of TV.

Beast is devolving, so why is he changing back into his previous incarnation? Does this make sense? He still has ewok paws but suddenly he gets new Chewbacca legs, why? Wolverine as part of the scenery? Scott looking like Dummy in his pervert suit? I don’t know. We’ll have to wait and see. Oh, and did Kitty really make a comment about Emma's smell? Because if she did…

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

13:41 / 29.06.04

Yes, dammit, because all the comic writers are so good! Oh, wait... I'm not quite sure why anyone would think Joss doesn't have as a good a handle on the comics form as anyone else.

All the panel changes, transitions and reveals are handled very nicely. The dialogue and timing of quips is spot on. I'm not sure how anyone could question that specifically, oh, except for it feeling like a TV show? Hm. Didn't Grant's first arc feel like a summer blockbuster? (Wide panels and minimal snappy dialogue) Who cares. Seems to me Joss is emphasising relationships between the members of the team more than the "comics as a medium can do anything which = blowing stuff up a lot". Personally I feel like he knows these characters pretty well. Sure, it's a familiar story - as was most of Grant's run - but I'm excited to see where it leads. The best thing about the X-men is that every story is really just someone elses take on it, I see no reason why it should go out of it's way to recognise the history before it, even though Joss is doing a nice job continuing a lot of the things Grant set up (or just tying up/making use of all the stuff he never quite dealt with).

And I wish people would stop trying to make sense of the larger continuity, because it just seems a bit self-defeating. Why are beast's hands/eyes/legs/paws/genitals different? Did Wolverine have that buckle before? Where did he get it? Did he buy it? Does Emma actually smell? I imagine she smells very nice and this totally destroys my suspension of disbelief for this fucking comic! I'm going to continue thinking she smells like a diamond or very expensive perfume.

I bet Kitty smells of B.O.

16:17 / 29.06.04

Whedon fails to reinvent wheel shocker!, the headlines scream.

Morrison accredited with having done so, experts say.

It's alright, this. But for all that its precursor was ramshackle, it was an awful lot more exciting.

Our Lady Has Left the Building

17:54 / 29.06.04

It took some ten to fifteen years to decide Wolverine's claws were claws and not knives, look at the Secret Wars artwork. Quitely's version of the Beast just looked more exciting than Cassady's is all.

18:03 / 29.06.04

I think Cassady came on a lot this issue.

He always has one or two shite frames, but there were about 8 last issue, and only 1 this time. His Beast is definitely improving.

Matthew Fluxington

18:07 / 29.06.04

Suedey is so OTM, especially about how awful most comics writers are these days. Most people writing comics these days are drooling buffoons! Whedon has a strong grasp on the basic mechanics of storytelling, which puts him miles ahead of most everyone else.

There was a lot of action in this issue, and it was handled really well. Sure, there wasn't any genocide, but you can't do that in every story.

Matthew Fluxington

18:14 / 29.06.04

Suedey is ultra OTM about this:

"comics as a medium can do anything which = blowing stuff up a lot".

Just because you can show almost anything in a comic doesn't mean that you should at all times. I think that by coming out of television, a medium in which the writer must always consider budget and time constraints, Joss has a discipline which greatly benefits his writing in general. Instead of going for the big bang, he goes for the big payoff, which is ultimately more rewarding. Just because they haven't gone crazy with the virtual pryotechnics in the beginning doesn't mean that something very much larger than life won't happen within two or three issues time.

22:12 / 29.06.04

Claremont, and I hasten to add I've only read choice quotes from Excalibur, seems to be one of these 'drooling buffoons', really, Matthew.

There's not much below him in the race to lowest common denominator these days.

Joss has gone for a tragic and appalling event (albeit on the microcosmic scale) early in the game which is always a good sign for x-fans. When I saw the preview cover (#117) that had Beast in tear, I knew it was on with New.

05:52 / 30.06.04

To summarize, Grant Morrisson was brilliant (he gave us Cassandra Nova), Joss Whedon is iffy (he gave us Ord of Breakworld) and Chris Claremont is undefeated (he gave us everything).

And yes, a good writer can be gauged by the villians he creates.

ONLY NICE THINGS

08:06 / 30.06.04

I still have reservations about Joss Whedon, he’s part of an alarming trend that’s making me seasick, that being non-comic writers writing comics. Brian Singer (not a writer, I know), Tarantino, that guy from that Babylon thing etc. I’m not convinced if his writing will ever work outside of TV.

I can sort of see the justice of this comment, in one very specific way. Writing across genres is often difficult. What I find interesting is that Jeff Whedon, Brian Singer, Tarantino and Straczynski are all successful in more lucrative and popular media, but are writing comics because they are big comics *fans* - in essence because they want to hang out with Chris Claremont. All right, apart from Straczynski. He's just fucked. Point being, they have all learned their trades in highly competitive environments and have, as Flux says, developed a grasp of pacing, dialogue, plot... I imagine they have consultants who help them with the mechanics of the panel grid, although perhaps I ma being uncharitable.

If you look at the reverse, you find comics creators struggling for the greater kudos and indeed the greater financial rewards of other genres. So, Neil Gaiman, who writes generally decent comics, turns himself to mediocre books and execrable film scripts. Chris Claremont's novels are unreadable. Leave it to Hollywood and get X2, involve Marvel creatively and get Mutant X...

09:17 / 30.06.04

Mutant X...shudder

Regrettable Juvenilia

09:50 / 30.06.04

New X-Men may have been brilliant from the word go, but what does it say about it that there are a LOT of people who think that 'E Is For Extinction' was by far the best storyline of his run?

Not that Whedon has never been involved with a story that lost its consistency over the years and had enormous plotholes, but so far what he's doing with the X-Men is pretty tight.

11:17 / 30.06.04

Gambit is sooo cheekily disingenuous. All this from one of the original Buffy lovers - who, I will add, did not just enjoy the series for it's cerazy kung-fu antics and spesh fantasy sheen.

Seriously, why are you buying the comic if it's such a disappointment? You **knew** that it was never going to be particularly novel or experimental or loaded with idea bombs. Joss's stories, despite some garish ostensible features, have always been intimate and somewhat traditional - character driven rather than ideas driven, etc...

11:20 / 30.06.04

one of? fuck all your horses i was the very first person you know to watch it, and the rest of you owe me big time for shouting about how good it was.

12:18 / 30.06.04

Flyboy - I think it says that Quitely drew it, really. A lot of impression of the story being rough-hewn would likely've been dissipated had there been at least set art teams for every arc.

Okay, there was a giant massacre, which was brilliant too.

Doesn't Tildie's mutation look like a 'mummudrai'?

I done all that with Buffy, too. It was a thing folk would dismiss out of hand, but by about the third/fourth series they were all lining up to tell me how right I'd been.

Oh yes.

13:08 / 30.06.04

Anyone else notice the back/silhouette of what looks like Ord standing next to Dr. Kavita Rao on the first page of issue 1 (or is it the second page)? Where people in darkness are looking into the sealed-off room (presumably behind a one-way mirror) where Tilde has just woken up, traumatized? It sure looks like Ord's hair and costume to me.

13:12 / 30.06.04

I owe you nowt. I stumbled across Buffy when it started on terrestrial.

This conversation is becoming rather dorky. I will stop now.

13:19 / 30.06.04

From the issue 3 preview.

...Wolverine's relationship with a fellow X-Man takes an unexpected turn...

Anyone reckon Beast and Wolvy are gonna tussle?

13:32 / 30.06.04

watching those hairy fuckers get stuck together like a pair of bears suffocating in velcro and vaseline - should be funny

howsoever, will it not be wogan and shitty? their friendship being tested by shitty's failure to live and let live with emma, who's enjoyed much support from wogan-san since joining the zen-men?

ONLY NICE THINGS

13:53 / 30.06.04

Well, I imagine Emma's not exactly in Logan's best books for the adventures of Cyclops and Penis, and collusion in the (ahem) betrayal of Dead Jean Grey. She has, after all, really been playing with the one-eyed champion.

What?

Regrettable Juvenilia

14:00 / 30.06.04

Anyone else notice the back/silhouette of what looks like Ord standing next to Dr. Kavita Rao on the first page of issue 1 (or is it the second page)? Where people in darkness are looking into the sealed-off room (presumably behind a one-way mirror) where Tilde has just woken up, traumatized? It sure looks like Ord's hair and costume to me.

WOW THIS IS AMAZING NOONE HAS MENTTIONED IT BEFORE IN THIS THREAD OR THE OTHER FINDERWORLF = BEST BARBELOITHER EVERRRX1000!!!

14:53 / 30.06.04

Hmm, the Emma and Wolvy thing's poss I suppose.

I went for Hank and Logan 'cause of Hanks trip to the doctor, and Wolvy's egginess re the cure.

Also, a flair up between the beast men is pretty much unheard of - read: very unexpected.

14:56 / 30.06.04

That last argument really was rather crap.

I take it back.

15:06 / 30.06.04

rather than referring to fisticuffs, perhaps the 'unexpected turn' is grogan (tee hee) and twitty (stop! my sides!) going for the hammers and for the tongs on one another. y'know, she's a bit growen now despite jeff rewinding her age, wolvie's been suppressing that paedo ninja shit for years, only left it alone because he was hanging on for jean who wouldn't have approved. now ooo..uh..uh..that they might not be mutants much longer so..uh..ahh..yeh..uuhh..they might want to see what fun they can have with their powers and willy and ladypart and that. do you get what i mean?

or maybe he's gonna do the dragon in the tits with his claws. or maybe something rubbisher than all these ideas.

I'm Rick Jones, bitch

15:06 / 30.06.04

Is Flyboy being a dick again?

15:52 / 30.06.04

oh not really.

thing is, it's hardly unexpected for wolverine to get in a scrap with anyone is it? he's either not scrapping someone or else he is, in a way that other xmen really aren't, nardamean?

17:20 / 30.06.04

Just because you can show almost anything in a comic doesn't mean that you should at all times.

Actually non!, a comic like x-men should be showing all kinds of cool stuff at all times. sure there needs to be some soap opera elements and stuff and joss is really good at that but where's the living islands, the leather "life incarnate" pudendery, "The world" etc.

The whole "Cure" storyline has been completely done to death though: x-men cartoon, I think Joe Kelly did something similar in his run, and x-statix only recently i mean its a bit boring really...

17:43 / 30.06.04

Uh...did I miss something? Did other people mention the Ord thing? Cause I didn't see it if they did, sorry.

I'm referring to

>> Anyone else notice the back/silhouette of what looks like Ord standing next to Dr. Kavita Rao on the first page of issue 1 (or is it the second page)? Where people in darkness are looking into the sealed-off room (presumably behind a one-way mirror) where Tilde has just woken up, traumatized? It sure looks like Ord's hair and costume to me.

>> WOW THIS IS AMAZING NOONE HAS MENTTIONED IT BEFORE IN THIS THREAD OR THE OTHER FINDERWORLF = BEST BARBELOITHER EVERRRX1000!!!

07:10 / 01.07.04

The proposed brawl will most likely be between Cyclops and Wolverine. It'll be the culmination and bring closure to a lot of things: Jean's Death, Scott’s betrayal, Emma taking Jean's place, Scott’s paranoid suspicion of Emma and Logan’s relationship and Logan's doubt in Scott as a leader. It'll be like the OC but with old super heroes...in Lycra.

Grant Morrisson was edgy and subversive and he perverted the cartoon characters that the X-men had become. Joss Whedon made a little purple dragon a team member…

09:50 / 01.07.04

The proposed brawl will most likely be between Cyclops and Wolverine

Somehow I doubt it. For a start we don't know that there's going to be a brawl, I was just idly speculating. And Wolverine and Cyclops going at it could hardly be described as "unexpected" - the Xmen wouldn't be the fucking XMen if Wolverine and Cyc weren't ready to kick the shit out of each other at any second.

Except when they're feeling the love.

And speaking of love, perhaps Cyc and Wolvy find closure through manly hugs and a good chat. Perhaps that is the unexpected turn of events.

09:53 / 01.07.04

Joss Whedon made a little purple dragon a team member…

How incredibly disingenous and reductive.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

09:56 / 01.07.04

Bumble: Ah for Christ's sake SHUT UP!

It's not even worth an argument if people on this board are going to maintain that kind of attitude to everything (esp. post Grant things). This really is the equivalent standard fanboy backlash, modified for Barbelith and optimum Grant-love.

They were cartoons before Grant! But he made them EDGY (wear leather) and subversive (maybe I missed it. Leather?). For Gods sake, Grant didn't do anything except move some stagnant character storylines on and give some decent action and suspense. Not to diminish his run, of course, it had some great moments. He's a decent and imaginative (even if we'd seen some of the story ideas before) comic writer. But if anyone thinks Joss has returned the book to being a "cartoon" by way of bringing lockheed/costumes back, then they're genuinely missing out. Oh, and possibly care for Grant far more than they would ever care for, or enjoy, the X-men. I really think a lot of you need to get over yourselves and stop expecting this comic to be something completely different just to fit your needs.

Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!

09:59 / 01.07.04

Ah, Boboss probably put it better than I.

10:21 / 01.07.04

Disingenuous.

10:30 / 01.07.04

You are naughty.

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