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No Bush in 2004

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22:58 / 03.03.04

Okay, this thread has spun-off from the Kickstart the Magick. I proposed a Keep Bush Out of the White House in '04 mass sigil and a few of you were interested in the idea. So this is where we hammer out the potential and pitfalls of such a plan. This is where we come up with a sigil. And this is where we charge it.

02:18 / 04.03.04

I'm also a little leery of, as Bard put it, "using magic to hijack political change."

However, giving him another four years to pander to Big Oil, piss off all the non-Christian fundamentalists, and stack the Supreme Court, seems like it might be worth some risks.

How about something like a Pinocchio effect? Every non-truth he's told will make him look utterly ridiculous, like a mouthpiece for the Intolerant Right and a puppet of the CO2 lobby.

03:23 / 04.03.04

lad, your image link is not coming through for me.

Thoughts: I generally don't like to hex individuals, but I wouldn't feel too conflicted about a hex on the GOP. Or how about an enchantment to bring all BushCo's dirty little secrets to light? Maybe even invoking power and courage in the democratic congress to nail BushCo to the wall? Lord knows there are enough smoking guns nwo to take them down... There's also the angle of bringing Bush towards illumination, towards realizing what a complete soulless, self-serving, profit-mongering bastard he's been. IMagine a mid-life crisis in the White House...

03:36 / 04.03.04

A hex on the GOP? What a thought. I just heard this morning that the biggest contributor to the GOP was Phillip Morris.... do with that info what you will.

06:37 / 04.03.04

There's also the angle of bringing Bush towards illumination, towards realizing what a complete soulless, self-serving, profit-mongering bastard he's been. IMagine a mid-life crisis in the White House...

I'm not down for hexing anybody but 'helping' him sounds good. Like LVX said : he'll have a nasty fucking shock when realisation hit's him and it's for the good of the all.

07:09 / 04.03.04

Pinocchio effect.. I like the sound of that.. I think that could work pretty well, ofcourse, there would be a problem for Bush to even open his mouth..loooong nose

07:29 / 04.03.04

I am so not comfortable with this whole "anyone but Bush in 2004" thing. There are worse things than Bush. If you were to do a working wouldn't it be better to do something like "Most enlightend possible leadership for the USA".

I don't hate Bush, I just dislike what he does. I don't care who's name's on the oval office door (do they put names on it?). I want to see a world where the USA picking on the small kids to make itself feel better. And where it stops poluting the planet.

The "Bush out" working sets off all my be-careful-what-you-wish-for alarms. It's always possible that Bush is the better option (eep).

07:35 / 04.03.04

Good point.. Now my alarms are off to(kinda old and cranky though, I barely notice them at all )..maybe a "may be the best man win"-ish working would actually be a better idea?

The Folk King Idiot

14:21 / 04.03.04

I'm also a little leery of, as Bard put it, "using magic to hijack political change."

It should be remembered that is the basis of most forms of Magick.

14:30 / 04.03.04

Sigh. There is, unfortunately, no such thing as a perfect candidate... We could start another thread about the pain involved in choosing the lesser of two evils; let's stick to goals here.

What do we want the scope of this project to be? At this point, we're not dealing with "Anybody But Bush" but Bush vs Kerry. Do we want to influence the election as a group project? Or do we want to do less focussed workings for economic justice, social justice, and getting a gold star for the US in the "plays well with others" category?

If we want to put Kerry in the White House, how do we wnat to do it? Hexing Bush outright seems like a bad idea - there's a huge emphasis on martyrdom right now (that probably won't let up until weeks after Easter) and I'd hate to have him be able to turn that to his advantage. Holding Bush accountable for his failings seems reasonable, as does pointing out the strings on that pathetic puppet.

What about positive workings for Kerry?

Any other thoughts?

The Folk King Idiot

14:34 / 04.03.04

*This magical working brought to you by the Barbelith Kerry for President campaign*

the rake at the gates

15:35 / 04.03.04

im not sure that the combined magical might of barbelith could swing this thing either way, what with the millions of people who are consciously or subconsciously working their magic towards either party winning, like a drop in the ocean.
Remember the peace mango, didn't that start up just before the US decided they could do what ever the fuck they wanted, bollocks to the geneva convention or the UN, thats not what i'ld call a great sucess, barbelith starts working for peace and the opposite occurs, a dangerous precedent...

18:27 / 04.03.04

I'm really liking this thread. What if we cover both side? Hex Bush and charm Kerry. The people opposed to hexing Bush can charge the "positive" sigil. Those of us who don't care can charge the only "negative" sigil or both.

Double our efforts.

19:24 / 04.03.04

Flashback to four years ago,kids.
Remember?
The 50/50 split?
Now,that. That was Magick.

Shanghai Quasar

02:19 / 05.03.04

You can just feel the hate coming off this thread, can't you? It's just plain radioactivity, broiling and burning away at everything.

It has stirred me, forced me out of lurking mode. I must wonder what could possibly inspire such raw negativity.

Bush? The man who went around ousting stagnant regimes and letting civil war set in. He's cleaning out the system, infecting the old-new systems with new-old thoughts, letting these new-old thoughts try to fight it out. The boy is dynamic in his destructiveness.

Whether he realises this or not is another matter, but we're all just conduits to the bigger process, ain't we?

I don't hate Bush, I don't hate Kerry. Blessing them, hexing them, pointing out their strings, showing off our own strings. Maybe you'll be the drop that makes the bucket overflow, maybe you won't.

The American people will decide the direction their power flows.

But I'm not an American, so I'll just go back to being quiet now.

The Tower Always Falls

03:00 / 05.03.04

Hate, no. Concern, yes. I can't bring myself to hate Bush, despite everything. I would just rather he fuck off quietly to his ranch in Crawford and not bother anyone.

And it seems that the Bush regime has been hexed lately. Everything they try ends up blowing up in their faces lately. The Mars proposal, the Hate Amendment ironically causing more traction FOR the support of homosexual marriage and now this beautful bit of irony. How about not so much a hex so much as an amplification of this boomerang affect? It would just fan the flames of popular opinion, while perhaps also running on it? Just thinking out loud here, but that proposal sounds more servitor-suited... hm...

03:38 / 05.03.04

Shanghai- I don't hate Bush either. It's not like I want him dead or anything. Hell, he could live happily ever after for all I care. I just don't want him running this country.

That's a great link, Tower! And I think you've got something with the Bush regime has been hexed lately.

Fanning the flames is exactly the point.

03:39 / 05.03.04

Why not hex the ol' Skull n Bones club while you're at it, and charm the Dean/Nader ticket to victory in 2008?

Bush is the best thing that's happened to the world in decades. He's not a divider, he's a uniter...of his opponents. And I don't mean the Democrats.

03:58 / 05.03.04

Yeah, Bush & Kerry: two sides of the same coin. Kerry will bring a kinder gentler corporate globalization, may not kiss up so much to the Christian Right, back off on gutting the environment slightly, but he's still gonna play the same game. Multinational corporate special interests are running this country. Bottom line. Look how much bullshit went through under Clinton. But I'll still vote for Kerry.

I don't hate Bush. Cheney, on the otherhand...

05:29 / 05.03.04

This is fascinating. Make no mistake about it, the Christian Right in my country are doing a ton of magick to keep Bush in. Yeah, many people say that Christian magick is weak. Some is, but have you ever seen a charismatic prayer circle, eyes rolling upwards, continuous chanting, swaying and shaking? It's called gnosis up the wazoo! They believe that their prayer is in the name of Jesus, so they get a pass on that "thou shalt not perform sorcery" thing. The question that I ask is if they can do this, why can't anyone else? And if no one else does any, does that mean that the Christian Right is the only magickal game in town on this issue? In terms of hurting him or even just getting him out, to me, that doesn't focus on the real issues, reason being that the actual intent is focused on harming the person, instead of bringing about the desired situation. I recently performed a working to try to save affordable public transportation in the city that I live in. The woman who's trying to get rid of it said, and I quote, "Why can't these elderly people's children drive them around? Why should the taxpayer pay for it?" She's utterly dispicable. Still, focusing on HER diverts power from the issue at hand, which is affordable transportation for the disabled and elderly. Another thing to consider is that people in different countries will have different takes on this. As an anti-Bush american, my concern lies with the civil rights that have been disappearing since he has become president. A british person probably has differing concerns about him. Simply getting rid of him may not deal with all of those concerns. Therefor my proposal is this. Why not get everyone together and have them create their own sigils dealing with the corrections of various probs that the Bush administration has caused, and link them together with a "meta-sigil" that not only combines their power, but combines it synergistically, the "whole is greater than the sum of it's parts" thing? Set up a time in Greenwich MeanTime to perform the working. If you just get rid of Bush, you may get something even worse...... in short, perhaps focusing on the probs is better than focusing on Bush. Also, this effectively links together the concerns of persons in various countries.

21:10 / 05.03.04

Is that "No Bush" (red circle with line through W) the actual sigil we're proposing? Or is that just a nifty little graphic Imp thought was cool to start off the thread with?

21:55 / 05.03.04

That is not the sigil... just a cool graphic I wanted to start the thread with.

I don't want to get a sigil up until we've "agreed" on a propper statement of intent.

22:01 / 05.03.04

Yeah, Bush & Kerry: two sides of the same coin. Kerry [.......] he's still gonna play the same game. Multinational corporate special interests are running this country. Bottom line.

has it occured to anyone that we might need Bush for four more years (at least) to shake things up a bit and force mass consciousness into positive actions? you could think of this as the development of consciousness represented by 16. The Tower...you know, sometimes the shit has to really hit the fan so people wake up.
with Kerry or other Clinton-like "friendly" presidents it is much easier for the general public to keep assuming everything is fine, while actions are being taken which will ensure that humanity on this planet will NOT go on for much longer than one or two generations at the most...

so I think a sigil to hex him or associated parties would be contributing to the mess we're in (brought on by selfish manipulation of others), rather than helping any. I will definitely not participate. my opnion...I'm not trying o tell you what you should do or not do!
but why not hex up something constructive, like a sigil to
a) MAKE KIDS SEE REALITY MORE CLEARLY
b) GENERATE HOLISTIC IDEAS IN PEOPLES MINDS
or c) REMIND THE MULTITUED OF HUMAN SELF-CONSCIOUS UNITS OF THEIR INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY OF THEIR ACTIONS
(and as a result Bush, Cheney and the other NWO boys will be destroyed as a byproduct of this constructive process, without any manipulative energies directed towards them, their reason to be who they are will just cease to exist...)

12:36 / 06.03.04

I'm really liking this thread. What if we cover both side? Hex Bush and charm Kerry.

Yeah but what if Kerry turns out to be the antichrist and Bush is just the forerunner?

Someone said something about the sigil being for best possible leadership, i think that's the best idea myself but that's just my opinion.

Remember : Some of you people could have a lot more power than you realize, be wise when deciding on the intent!

13:32 / 06.03.04

Ahem. Apologies if this has already been mentioned somewhere on the thread, I looked
and I just can’t believe none of you chaps have seen this. It seems it’s quite okay to do magic like this because Grant say so, apparently. And he thought it first. Or simultaneously, whatever.

gotham island fae

16:17 / 06.03.04

Why not get everyone together and have them create their own sigils dealing with the corrections of various probs that the Bush administration has caused, and link them together with a "meta-sigil" that not only combines their power, but combines it synergistically, the "whole is greater than the sum of it's parts" thing? Set up a time in Greenwich MeanTime to perform the working. If you just get rid of Bush, you may get something even worse...... in short, perhaps focusing on the probs is better than focusing on Bush. Also, this effectively links together the concerns of persons in various countries.

The intent of the agreed upon group sigil could be:

Bring all connected workings into synergystic harmony and power. Bring all connected workings' intents into relative, synchronized manifestation.

I understand that there's the fact that some folk involved may push for opposite things. Hex 'em all, let the magick sort 'em out. This method seems to be most conducive to chaotic, non-local, group work. As discussion continues, specific intents will arise that individuals may choose as personally specific to their own work/play.

So, an arbitrary date and suggestions for central, group sigil would be in order.

16:48 / 06.03.04

That's a great link... nice to know grant's on our side.

Solitaire Rose as Tom Servo

17:25 / 06.03.04

Personally and just for me, I like the idea that Bush's lies, backdealings and other underhanded issues get brought out as a sigil, rather than a pure "anti-Bush" one. Just go go against Bush could have very signifigant blowback, including getting Cheney in power which would be much much worse, IMHO.

I do think that it is important for there to be a bit of a push to get rid of the very dangerous Neo-Conservitives, but the best way to do that would be to let people know just what they are planning and what they are up to.

But then again, I just lurk in this forum.

17:46 / 06.03.04

VERY good point. The idea of Cheney as president brings on visions of Apocalypse!! Let's protect Shrub from physical harm...

18:10 / 06.03.04

Hit Bush through Halliburton.

Simple, quick, and overdue.

Besides, Grant Morrison has alluded that he did certain sigilisations that may have helped lead up to the Enron debacle... why not try again?

Pooka

18:34 / 06.03.04

But then again, I just lurk in this forum

Well, me too. But seriously, I’m curious: is no-one here is even remotely concerned by the possibility of a counter-working by occult operatives in the White House? I mean, the bounceback from the Invisibles wankathon hospitalised Grant, almost killed him, and that was just to save a comic. The Bush family and these Project for a New American Century guys are bloody dangerous: tangle with them and you might end up with your bollocks rotting off. For starters.

Are you quite sure you wouldn’t rather just register to vote?

19:42 / 06.03.04

I thought that a scorpion loa hospitalised him?

And as for the Bush family being dangerous, your probably right, i can't see them staying in power anyway. Not unless the whole things rigged again, and that wouldn't be too much of a suprise either.

If he stays in and it's beyond doubt that he's had it rigged i'll join in on multiple sigil workings. I'll be happy to sigil against him all day regardless of his 'crew'.

20:53 / 06.03.04

[b]Just go go against Bush could have very signifigant blowback, including getting Cheney in power which would be much much worse, IMHO.[/b]

no, forcing Cheney to take direct control would be much, much better. Bush is the friendly good ol'boy mask that his corporate backers wear to build empathy with the public. Cheney is a much less suitabe mask: no charisma, dodgy heart, reeking of scandal, obviously a corporate tool. he's the man behind the curtain to Dubya's Wizard of Oz show.

anyway, i really like the idea that Z. deScathach and Fae Mage were discussing with some kind of emergent meta-working. it's kind of smart-mobby and very much in line with the sort of thinking which is starting to emerge from the husk of postindustrial society. so would everyone work the coordinating meta-sigil into their own work, or what?

20:38 / 08.03.04

I like the idea about sigilizing for the best possible leadership here in the USA in the 2004 election and maybe also building into it (or in a separate sigil) the idea of sigilizing for people to become more aware and care more about real issues.

>> "Dubya will most certainly employ teams of trained White House masturbators," he says, "and I imagine these dedicated men and women would be able to respond very quickly and gloppily to any incoming sigil attack directed at the president. Strategic onanistic capability is the big buzzword on Capitol Hill this year.

This cracked me up. I know he's partly serious, but "teams of trained White House masturbators" is a hysterical sentence!!

I wonder how many corporations really take Grant seriously when he goes in for consulting meetings and how many laugh at him and think he's a New Age freak. (bit off-topic, but I'm very curious about Grant's corporate consulting business) But the point about "maybe it takes a really shitty Prez for 8 years to wake people up" is a valid, if scary, one....

This is an excellent thread; people are really hashing this out and examining possible ramifications.

21:36 / 08.03.04

You could do Bush like those Gypsies in the Angel TV show did Angel, curse Bush to have a soul, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no but really, anything you guys want to do to Bush, just say when and what and I'll contribute my part. I got alot of old military friends he sent over and I'm itchin for a bitch slappin'.

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