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Lost for Words

 
  

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Saveloy
14:42 / 13.01.04
Having trouble finding just the right word(s) to describe, explain or express something? Can you cobble enough words together to explain roughly what you're after? Well, bung it down here and, with a bit of luck, some lovely 'lither will take sympathy and provide you with just the word, sentence or paragraph you need.

It might be a simple 'what's the word for X?' type question, eg:

"What's the word for those two things which hang off my arse and keep me off the ground?" (possible answer: legs)

Or it could be something meatier, but fairly open, eg:

"How would you describe the look on your face this afternoon when you came round from the tranquiliser and realised you were still in the boot of my car?"

Or you could be really specific and ask for something to fill a gap in a half-finished sentence. Can't be arsed to give an example, but you get the idea, right?





I've got one here to kick off with:

I had a dream the other night where I was being taken on a tour of a small town by a miserable man who kept squirting my back with thin but powerful jets of liquid banana from a hose attached to a big, black sack which he was dragging along the road behind him. He used the hose itself to pull the great, slug-like thing along behind him, with the same.... [something or other] ....as a child pulling a blanket loaded with soft toys across a dogshit strewn lawn.

The thing I want to describe here is the way the guy was pulling the sack full of liquid banana along the ground. I want to highlight the fact that the way he was doing it suggested:

- a lack of concern over the physical fate of the thing he was dragging around, which could have been due to either childlike simplicity (a lack of awareness) or self-conscious, adolescent sulkiness
- a long-term attachment to the thing, possibly a 'needy' one.

The conflict between those two is what suggested the child dragging a beloved object through shite (as well as the obvious physical similarity). Can anyone think of a pithy way of summing up all of the above?
 
 
Smoothly
15:02 / 13.01.04
How I love Saveloy's threads; count the ways.

'Naive disregard'?

Hmmm, will think on.
 
 
Jub
15:24 / 13.01.04
I think you've already done it Saveloy. The metaphor you've employed sums up those qualities - I don't honestly think such an obscure word exists to sum up those opposing characteristics - so without doing a Lewis Carroll (Jabberwocky stylee) - a simple word like, hm, fondness (slightly ironic), esteem (intimates his attachment and ironic), or less emotive words like, attention or regard.

(top thread!)
 
 
Cat Chant
15:26 / 13.01.04
wilful... something? (persistence?) I like 'wilful' because it gets both at a sense of deliberateness and at a sense of perversity/unhelpfulness about the action...

I can foresee this thread being very useful in writing my chapter, by the way. If anyone can think of synonyms for 'apprehend' or 'traverse' as things you do to space by moving across it, or for 'technologically conditioned modes' to indicate that one might move across space using different vehicles (such as feet, oxen, horse-drawn chariots and armoured cars), I'd be grateful. Thanks.
 
 
Smoothly
15:36 / 13.01.04
Or perhaps 'helpless' something (disregard, insouciance, whatever) carries enough of the suggestion of a steadfast attachment in the face of hazard, Sav.
 
 
grant
16:29 / 13.01.04
Elan! The same elan!

Uhhh.....
 
 
Sax
17:45 / 13.01.04
There's something in Saveloy's example that says "stoicism" to me... but that's obviously only half the story.
 
 
Kit-Cat Club
09:10 / 14.01.04
Well, it's almost oxymoronic, isn't it? 'Indifferent attachment' or something like that... though I'm inclined to agree with Jub that the simile does the work perfectly well.

Deva, can you 'map' space in that way? Do you mean 'to gain a knowledge of space by travelling through it'?
 
 
Saveloy
11:08 / 16.01.04
Excellent, thanks you lot. Could I get away with something deliberately oxymoronic, like "...wilfully naive..." or similar? Hmmm...

I really want to help with Deva's one but my mind is a blank.
 
 
40%
17:48 / 04.02.04
I have a linguistic query:

It has to do with the meaning of music, or I suppose any kind of art. If you imagine going to an art gallery, someone might ask what a painting was 'about', and someone might say "it's about freedom", for example. Now this would be valid as a start, but on its own wouldn't really mean much. [Assuming it's not literally about freedom, like a picture of someone breaking out of jail]

Now what kind of description/explanation is that? I need a word for it, something along the lines of 'metatheme'. Where you have a meaning within a piece of art which could be described as fundamental to it, overarching it and behind it. In other words, this theme is so broad and so generalised that you can't quite locate it with a spatial/geographical metaphor.

It doesn't have to be an existing word, if anyone can create a new word which captures the concept well, I'll be just as happy. It's for my own use, rather than in an academic context.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
19:41 / 04.02.04
Okay, so there's this phrase that goes "something-or-the-other wood", and means really complicated and convoluted. I need the word that goes in front of "wood." It's some kind of Greek wood, or something. Anyway I really need that word because I was writing this story, and that was the title, except that I didn't put the title in the story anywhere and the file is just called "wood.rtf". Must've been drunk or something.
 
 
Smoothly
11:31 / 05.02.04
Mordant, I've racked my brain, rifled my book-shelf, consulted the appropriate authorities and googled widely; but I can't find this phrase.
The OED gives me 519 words and phrases that end in 'wood' and none of them is what you describe (although I skipped the details of a few). Can you offer any more clues?
Exactly how drunk were you?

40% - What's wrong with 'theme' exactly? Are you looking for a word for a theme behind a number of themes?
 
 
not nervous
13:28 / 05.02.04
I wanted to say something along the lines of "40% isn't as good at rapping as me".... it should be about ten lines long and rhyme... internally too, where possible... anyone?
 
 
ibis the being
18:39 / 05.02.04
Mordant... could it possibly be something to do with -
Woodbind The bindweed or wild convolvulus. This is quite a different plant to the woodbine. It is a most troublesome weed in orchards, as its roots run to a great depth, and its long, climbing stalks bind round anything near it with persistent tenacity. It is one of the most difficult weeds to extirpate, as every broken fragment is apt to take root.

For years I've been thinking there is a word that refers to a word's quality of sounding like you'd think it would sound given its meaning. I've asked people before and always had them scream "IT'S ONOMATOPOEIA!" - but I insist that's not it. Onomatopoeia means the word sounds like the things it's referring to sound. While ________ means the word (which can be an abstract term) just seems to suit its meaning (more intuitive or poetically). I'm sorry, that's as best I can explain it.
 
 
William Sack
19:17 / 05.02.04
I know what you mean, Ibis. 'Jeremy' is one such word.

Can we do this with names? What's a good name for a little boy who gets trapped after horsing around in a disused mine but gets rescued by Lassie?
 
 
40%
19:40 / 05.02.04
40% - What's wrong with 'theme' exactly? Are you looking for a word for a theme behind a number of themes?

Hmm...kind of. I'm looking for a word for themes which are conveyed so esoterically that they couldn't be pinned down to any specific feature of the thing being described. They are there, and you have to see them intuitively rather than based on an empirical observation of the piece of art.

But it's quite possible I can't really explain what I'm getting at.

I wanted to say something along the lines of "40% isn't as good at rapping as me".... it should be about ten lines long and rhyme... internally too, where possible... anyone?

lol. You great bloody cheat But I'll try and help you out...

Hmm, another way of saying "40% isn't as good at rapping as me". How about "fabriation"? "fallacy"? "woefully inaccurate and confused"?

Not quite as long as you were hoping for, I'm afraid, but should get you started.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
20:43 / 05.02.04
On "about freedom" - is this a bit like "this is a sad picture", meaning not that the picture is itself unhappy, but rather that, while not describing sadness, the picture has somne sort of capacity to suggest, if not evoke, sadness?

If so, it's sort of a Wittgensteinian second-order characteristic...
 
 
not nervous
22:00 / 05.02.04
Thanks 40%! Fabriation, i'll have to try that!
 
 
not nervous
22:18 / 05.02.04
Booyah!
 
 
Saveloy
07:35 / 06.02.04
40%> Would macro be any good to you? By using it you'd be acknowledging or implying that there are other 'micro' themes or explanations to be explored. How about - ahem - 'macrosplanation'?
 
 
40%
12:36 / 06.02.04
Let me try again. I'm talking about the way that a piece of art has its own built-in philosophy. Just as, with Marxism, for example, you can guess what its attitude is going to be to any given thing, and the terms it is likely to define it in, I feel that pieces of art have a built-in attitude to the rest of the world.

So you could take "Hit me baby one more time" and ask what its attitude is to the upcoming US elections, for example. In a large number of cases, the answer might be that the piece of art is entirely indifferent to such matters. But I'm talking about the attitudes and world views conveyed by a piece of art (particularly music) which it never directly tried to convey, but are there in such a way that even the artist might not have been aware of them.

Which all stems from my belief that every piece of art is a meta-narrative, or rather that an element of meta-narrative is a criterion for describing something as 'art' in broader terms than just working with paintbrushes.

A philosophy like Marxism is explicit, but art is never required to explain itself explicitly in this way, nevertheless I believe art has the same characteristic of giving a particular overview of the world.

So I'm asking what the themes of a piece of art are in the way that the themes of Marxism are revolution, the means of production, indoctrination etc. [May or not be accurate, please take as example]. But in the sense of its pre-occupations rather than its specific beliefs. So rather than saying that Marxism says there will be a revolution, you might say that Marxism is pre-occupied with the structure of society, for example [see above disclaimer].

Similarly, a piece of music might be pre-occupied with time, choice, change etc. You don't have to draw a picture of someone standing at a crossroads to have a pre-occupation with choice, and you don't need to show a picture of a clock to convey a pre-occupation with time. These things are built in at a level too deep to be articulated in that way. And these themes have to be very broad and meaningful. A piece of music could not have a subtle meta-theme about cheese. It's not possible to have an underlying pre-occupation with cheese, but only to think about it consciously. So meta-themes, or whatever they ought to be called, have to be grand concepts, by definition.

The 'macro' thing is definitely an element of it. I'll have to get back to you on the Wittgenstein bit.

Nrvous - yes, 'fabriation' is a common word. It means 'petty-minded point-scoring'. I'm surprised you've never come across it before.
 
 
not nervous
12:58 / 06.02.04
I was just kidding, it's actually my middle name, Nrvous Fabriation Timberlake.
 
 
Smoothly
13:44 / 06.02.04
'Fabriation'? Where is this a common word? Is this a joke that everyone gets but me?
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
21:59 / 06.02.04
Yes and we're all laughing about it behind your back. What's another word for neurotic.
 
 
40%
22:55 / 06.02.04
Oh, Smoothly...What are you like?
 
 
Smoothly
00:15 / 07.02.04
Regrettably, 40%, I'm just like this. Not the sharpest barb on the lith.
In this instance I think I was blinded by my appetite for new and exciting words. I refer you to my earlier frustration over Mordent's expression for something that's overly complicated and baffling. I spent ages trying to work that out, and the bugger still hasn't come back to help me out.

Hmmm. That was probly a joke too. *sobs*
 
 
gotham island fae
00:32 / 07.02.04
Knodge, hush.*

&

'I don't want to ask you to change, but I don't like who you are and the decisions you make.' [i ask with the stipulation that it be done with as little judgement(intended or not) as possible]


*alternately, welcome NU memberz. your ass candles are cuming. rightnow.
 
 
40%
08:49 / 07.02.04
You might enjoy the Blackadder episode "Ink and Incapability" from series 3, Smoothly. A conversation between Blackadder and Doctor Johnson:

"Here it is sir. The very cornerstone of English Scholarship. This book, sir, contains every word in our English language."
"Every single word, sir?"
"Every single word, sir!"
"Oh. Well in that case, sir, I hope you will not object if I also offer the doctor my most enthusiastic contrafibularities."
"What?"
"Contrafibularities, sir. It is a common word, down our way".
"Damn!"
"Oh I'm sorry, sir. I'm anaspeptic, prasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused you such pericombobulations."
 
 
The resistable rise of Reidcourchie
11:26 / 07.02.04
40% you really like Blackadder don't you.
 
 
40%
11:54 / 07.02.04
Yes Reidcourchie. Yes I do.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
12:17 / 07.02.04
Mmm... no, it's not "woodbine." It's some two-word phrase. The first word begins with H, I think. Pretty sure it's a got a Greek root. I thought I got it off thesaurus.com, but I've checked there pretty thoroughly and no dice.

Did I dream it?
 
 
grant
02:42 / 08.02.04
I believe you made it up.
Although "wood" is Middle English for "loony" or "crazy". Byzantine and Daedalian pop up in searches, and so do a few phrases, but nothing with wood.
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
15:59 / 09.02.04
And I belive you all know what it is and you won't tell me.
 
 
grant
18:34 / 09.02.04
The only Greek "H" that comes to mind is "halcyon," which doesn't work at all, and the only "wood" phrase that brings to mind confusion or complication is Imago Wood, the fantasy novel about the kind of interdimensional/collective unconsciousness forest. Which isn't what you're asking about either.

But do either of those jog any associations loose?
 
 
Less searchable M0rd4nt
22:13 / 09.02.04
AUUUUUGHHHH! This is driving me nuts.

I think it was one of those HY- words. Hypertension, Hyperion. I don't know. It's an extra-twisty kind of Greek wood, IIRC, and because of said twistyness it's used as a metaphor for complexity and stuff. Seriously, I'm going crazy over here. I spent hours today going through lists of outlandish words with a fine-toothed comb.
 
  

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