BARBELITH underground
 

Subcultural engagement for the 21st Century...
Barbelith is a new kind of community (find out more)...
You can login or register.


About The Barbelith #496 thread... (PICS)

 
  

Page: 1(2)345

 
 
Tryphena Absent
20:59 / 17.11.03
I think it was meant to be just subtle enough that you had to look it over a couple of times before you guessed it was a joke... if you didn't get the reference.
 
 
Char Aina
20:59 / 17.11.03
if purple horse is that reference, then i will hold my hand up and say i have no idea what the heck they are on about.
but that is because i am not cool enough to be in on it.


christ, it reminds me of school.
you are edward greenwood, and i claim my prize.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
20:59 / 17.11.03
That's true, Lurid. But I think, at the very least, that anyone who's read any of my thousands of posts anywhere else on the board might see a slight discrepency w/r/t the mild retardation I display in the "496" thread.

Or maybe I'm flattering myself to think that anyone ever reads my posts in the first place...
 
 
Tom Coates
21:04 / 17.11.03
One to Flux: "And yeah, having some people know what's going on and others be in the dark is a crucial part of making the project work." There's the statement you make where you say that you wanted there to be people who didn't know whether what you were doing was true or not. Any subsequent statement you make in which you then say that it should be obvious to everyone that it was untrue seems to be necessarily disingenuous.

Two to Flux "I can't speak for the other folks involved, but for me this is in some part an attempt to find something new and fun to do on Barbelith since so much of the other forums have been boring me. I could either walk away, or I could make my own fun." I'm afraid being part of a community is also being aware of the other people in it. If you want to occupy a place where you don't have to take responsibility for your actions where you can act precisely how you wish without rehard for the consequences, I suggest a day-care centre or creche where you can be properly supervised. I know I'm sounding humourless and harsh, but bugger it - I spend a hell of a lot of the time being calm and reasonable and trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Here I think you made a basic and clumsy mistake. It's not particularly important and it may have been inflated out of proportion but the least you could do is just apologise gracefully for making me think I had another two weeks of board related horrors to deal with.

Three to Tryphena: "If we disagreed with Tom but just took everything he said as gospel- Tom has decreed so we shall do- we'd be pathetic and totally unworthy of being around here because I don't think that's the place he wants, he's never given that impression." You're absolutely right. That's not what I want at all. I don't anyone jumping when I say something because they think they have to, and I have tried as much as possible to stop that being the case. On the other hand there are a few small circumstances where I have to step in, no matter how much I'd like to devolve power completely, and they're to do with those things which I am financially, technically or legally responsible for. A legal threat to Barbelith is a legal threat to me. A technical threat to Barbelith can only be resolved by someone with access to my server. A financial threat to Barbelith can only be resolved by me as the intermediary. I wish it were not the case, that it was possible for the thing to be genuinely decentralised, but I can't see that happening completely ever. So basically, as long as people avoid putting me at risk or putting me in a situation where I am forced to act, then I'll be able to avoid playing the role of the evil godlike dictator that I dislike so much.

Four to Flux: "I suppose that I assumed to much to think that the administrator of this community was at all aware and involved with the activities of the community itself." So what you're saying is that as the person who has donated his time, money and effort to maintain the board over the last four/five years, that that's not enough? That I have a responsibility to know everything that's going on at all times as well? Oh brilliant! Well thanks! I wasn't aware that you providing me with this wonderful opportunity to build a community site for you came with so many conditions. I should have looked at the contract in more detail before I signed my life away. Bloody idiot.

Personally I would have thought it more honourable for me to have kept this place going despite the fact that I often don't have the time to be as involved in the community as I once was. Again - I'd be delighted to give up greater control over the place to the people who are more active members of the community. IN FACT JUST IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED, I'VE TRIED BLOODY HARD TO MAKE THAT THE CASE.

End Now as far as I'm concerned I've now spent more time than I wished of my first time off work in six months getting narked off with this situation and I should now go back to finishing off my presentation for work, which was supposed to have been finished before I left the office on Friday but wasn't. As far as I'm concerned the situation has been resolved, perhaps not amicably but you can't have everything. Good night.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:04 / 17.11.03
No, it just means I have an office job and happened to be posting a lot when the last but one thread was around along with the other people who did or would have picked up on it.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:06 / 17.11.03
I think it was meant to be just subtle enough that you had to look it over a couple of times before you guessed it was a joke... if you didn't get the reference.

Bingo. And the plan all along was for it to get increasingly silly, so that if you weren't sure about seven posts in, by the time we're putting together benefit concerts in Prospect Park featuring the son of a dead one-hit-wonder as headliner, you would surely be skeptical about the gravity of the situation.
 
 
Char Aina
21:12 / 17.11.03
a real hack would have happened faster than that, though.
by the time it was obvious it was a joek to all, a real hack would already have fucked the place up.

i think the street theatre analogy holds up.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:16 / 17.11.03
Tom - you've got valid points on all three counts. I'm sorry. I was very careless and clumsy with this, and I should have known better. I was very caught up in my thing, and I wasn't thinking it through.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:17 / 17.11.03
Actually, I find this thread far more interesting as drama and as comedy than the original thread. From the first post to the "sincere apology", Flux has adumbrated basically the same points.

1) If you don't get the joke at once, you are stupid.

I'm sure that none of you needed to be told that, but just in case you were concerned that Barbelith was really about to be taken over by Mob Hackers, you need not worry about it.

to


I'll admit that it was very insensitive for me to work out this plan and not realizing that Tom may take even a ridiculous and clearly unbelievable threat to Barbelith seriously.

2) If you don't know all about these merry adventures, and thus locate the thread immediately in context, you are not spending enough time on Barbelith, should not be talking about Barbelith and are not fit to express an opinion *about* Barbelith.

We're writing a story, and I'm sure all of you who regularly read the Conversation forum (or have been involved with Barbelith in even the smallest way over the past few months) are aware of our fictional NYC adventures.

to

It isn't surprising to me that the three people who are reacting the worst to this particular situation are all people who have not been active in this community lately and can rather easily be accused of being very out of touch with the current culture of Barbelith.

3) Therefore, although you are free to contribute to these threads or not as you wish, it is incumbent upon you to read them and pay attention to them, lest you not be genned up enough on them to fall into trap (2). They are, in fact, the only threads on Barbelith you *must* read. However, you must also *not* read them if you are likely not to enjoy them, even though you must also read them as if you do not you are not spending enough time on Barbelith, should not be talking about Barbelith and are not fit to express an opinion *about* Barbelith

I'm sure all of you who regularly read the Conversation forum (or have been involved with Barbelith in even the smallest way over the past few months) are aware of our fictional NYC adventures.

to

If you don't like it, then don't read it.

4) If you feel others may not have been following all the other threads, and thus might not immediately "get" this one, then you are being patronising and assuming that everyone else, like you, fulfils condition (1). Obviosuly, everyone else has, because otherwise they would fulfil condition (2). As you do.

One would think that the inherant ridiculousness of our previous stories combined with the silly presentation in the #496 thread ("Lo! There Shall Be A Reckoning!") would be major hints that it was all a fiction, but Tom Coates and Nick have strong doubts about how smart/gullible the lot of you are

to

Why do some people have to insist that a) some people here are gullible idiots with no ability to suss out reality from completely preposterous fiction

to


Well, obviously we have to mark everything, because apparently we're a bunch of drooling idiots around here.


The addition of "Hey, it's just a joke. If you don't get it, you should at least not complain about it" (see point (3))clears things up for me; this whole thread is an opportunity for the boys to have as much fun as the lovers of Matrix Revolutions are having in that thread: constant repetition of a few points, logical incoherence, suggestions that the haters are defective both as readers and people, and the belief that others just don't get it. Next up, we get "Oh, I suppose I'm not *cool* enough to understand why this is a controversial action. I just enjoyed a good, fun thread with some great effects and an interesting philosophy", and the gag will be clear.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
21:18 / 17.11.03
Hmm... it was forum theatre I guess. Basically the audience unknowingly begins to participate in something that could be an everyday activity. A couple aggressively breaking up on a train for example and there are some plants to get it going. Someone saying 'don't you think you're being a bit harsh'. It only works if people don't reveal it once they're let in to the secret... this thread's pretty much destroyed the whole piece to an extent which is an arse because it was pretty damn good.
 
 
Murray Hamhandler
21:25 / 17.11.03
Oh, yes. This thread is much more interesting and not at all in keeping w/the brain-hemmoragingly pedantic/bitchy nature of so many other threads...

I just wanna laff!!!!
 
 
Tom Coates
21:26 / 17.11.03
Do you not think there are any ethical problems at all with causing genuine fear or a sense of threat in people - even if it is slight and passing? Like me saying, "your house is on fire" and then you get home and I laugh and tell it wasn't really on fire, it was - you know - theatre. Even if it's not ethically dubious, I don't think anyone could conceivably have a case for saying that people caught up in this theatre against their will should not be able to be pissed off about it. Certainly it seems unlikely to me that they'd be happy about it.
 
 
Lurid Archive
21:31 / 17.11.03
Guys. Why don't we all sleep on it and avoid what is sounding like an increasingly scratchy tone?
 
 
Ganesh
21:32 / 17.11.03
Yes, let's all have a nice cup of tea. Sweet.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:33 / 17.11.03
I think Deric just wants a balance on Barbelith, Tom.

There's a lot more to what we've been doing than the one joke that offended you and caused everything to get mucked up. I take full responsibility for the mistake, but it doesn't change the project overall.

This thread = the Barbelith that most of us are sick to death of. The bitchy, pedantic Barbelith. It'd be nice to use Barbelith for something other than petty arguments.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:36 / 17.11.03
Plan. Sleep well, everyone. I'm not sure there's much left to say,and I feel rather bad that I didn't post my last post until after both Tom's explanation and Flux's apology - somebody phoned before I finished it.

My only wish is that everyone is nicer to each other as a result of all this. And stops saying "there is something wrong with you" or "your motives are unsafe" when they mean "I don't agree", on all sides.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
21:45 / 17.11.03
Haivng said which, there is a distinction between pedantry and correctness. I'm sorry that the (bitchy) positions you are adopting contradict each other, Flux, but that is not anyone else's fault. If you want to denigrate and insult other people, you should probably at least do it consistently.
 
 
rizla mission
21:48 / 17.11.03
This thread = the Barbelith that most of us are sick to death of. The bitchy, pedantic Barbelith. It'd be nice to use Barbelith for something other than petty arguments.

amen to that.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:53 / 17.11.03
Haus, I was only using Deric's words.

I'll cop to being pedantic and bitchy in this thread, sure.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:02 / 17.11.03
And I think there's a lesson for us all there. If people are nasty, other people are nasty back, and it all gets nasty. In this case, the pedantic, bitchy tone was set by a pedantic, bitchy first post (inspired, perhaps, by bitchery elsewhere, but also based on what has subsequenlty been accepted as a failure to understand the situation), and it is just possible that we have got somewhere subsequently, but the jury is realistically still out. Elsewhere, somebody is rude and bitchy in the "Red Indians" thread (admittedly, probably without really understanding the impact of hir statement), or somebody slags somebody else off (not their position - themself) for liking/not liking the Strokes/the Matrix/1602/Battlestar Galactica, and it all spirals because, fairly reaonably, nobody feels they should lie flat and be bitched out, but also it's pretty unlikely that post-bitching much progress will be made. Sometimes spats can be emetic or purgative, other times they just create unnecessary tension.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
22:11 / 17.11.03
Tom I think that you took something apart that was just beginning to get started. I don't think I've ever said I think you were wrong about something before but I did and do think you were wrong in your treatment of that thread, just that you jumped the gun and that it wasn't like your house was on fire, or even your board was being attacked and that there was too much jumping to conclusions because people are paranoid. Basically fun barbelith failed to emerge because instead of reading something people made assumptions. If mob hackers were going to actually attack the board I don't think there would be a thread started by Flux, I think he'd probably try to get hold of you in any way possible and the tone would be slightly less ambiguous.

I love this place dearly and I don't want it to go away but I have to ask, if these are the type of things running through your mind in all seriousness in reaction to a thread begun by Flux, do you seriously want to continue with barbelith? There's a part of me that's worried, although I don't know you personally, about the effect this board could be having on you.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
22:33 / 17.11.03
We should try to remember that the phrase "mob hackers" was not used on the 496 thread at all; it was used in *this* thread to illustrate how idiotic it was to think that the other thread was anything other than a joke. It's hyperbole. and that we are back to talking about what is wrong with people. Not even whether people are wrong, but what is wrong with people. All Tom did was get pissed off for the reasons he explained above and Flux accepted he had not thought about enough. One badly-thought-out thread getting derailed doesn't strike me as necessarily a good reason to kill Barbelith or a good reason to question anybody's mental health.
 
 
Tryphena Absent
23:02 / 17.11.03
I'm not questioning his (your) mental health, or at least I don't want it to come across that way or to cause offense or seem like I'm getting at anyone. That's not the nature of my post. It just seems that barbelith causes a lot of stress to the person who runs it but not much fun and I'm not specifically talking about threads like Flux's that aren't to everyones tastes but the whole thing. I have to ask if it's worth it because it's all I've been wondering today? Is the balance really there? Because when you just seem to clear up mess all the time and never appear to really revel in most of the board I wonder what's the point? Considering how pissed off I get with barbelith I can only imagine the horror of running it. Just why? because I really think that horrible circumstance must have driven you to distraction and that things like this are the effect.
 
 
The Apple-Picker
23:15 / 17.11.03
Mob hackers are everywhere.
 
 
bio k9
23:26 / 17.11.03
They hacked my LJ too.
 
 
bitchiekittie
23:42 / 17.11.03
BIO!
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
00:01 / 18.11.03
I demand my chance to be pedantic and bitchy:

you are edward greenwood, and i claim my prize.

toksik, you pedantic, bitchy shit! You're having a big laugh at my expense just because I don't know who edward greenwood is. You, sir, are tedious and autistic.

Tom, I didn't post in the #496 thread, but I was involved in the planning of it and would've posted in it if I'd been around, and it never occured to me to alert you either, so I apologize as well. No one meant to ruin your day.
 
 
8===>Q: alyn
00:01 / 18.11.03
Bio!
 
 
bio k9
00:05 / 18.11.03
Dude!
Dudette!
 
 
bio k9
00:05 / 18.11.03
HAUS!
 
 
bio k9
00:06 / 18.11.03
Nick!
 
 
bio k9
00:06 / 18.11.03
Tom!
 
 
bio k9
00:06 / 18.11.03
Toddius!
 
 
bio k9
00:06 / 18.11.03
Santa!
 
 
bio k9
00:07 / 18.11.03
Tryphena Sparks!
 
  

Page: 1(2)345

 
  
Add Your Reply