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New X-Men #152

 
  

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Matthew Fluxington
15:12 / 27.12.03
And I get the feeling that Cassandra is actually Martha, and not Ernst.

How could that possibly make sense? Martha is introduced several issues before Cassandra's body dies. Also, the image of Cassandra holding Martha in tow is obviously meant to be a literal echo of Ernst with Martha. I seriously don't think there is any weird unnecessarily complicated reversal going on there.
 
 
Shrug
15:32 / 27.12.03
Maybe the brain is Esme or Xavier? I'm just thinking about who hasn't been accounted for as of yet.
 
 
LDones
01:23 / 15.01.04
Out next week. First four pages are up @ popcultureshock. (Plus the 4 non-lettered teaser pages from before).

I can't find a proper copy of the cover.

Looks like the old image of what we thought were the 'New X-Men' were actually The Proud People...
 
 
LDones
04:13 / 15.01.04
Yes, yes, and yes, to all three posts. He mentions Homo Perfectus, which is what Sublime calls the '3rd Species' in the 2001 Annual where Xorn is first introduced.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
07:16 / 15.01.04
The Proud People would appear to be the non-mutant superheroes of the day, right? Complete with classic OTT dialogue and slightly retro, typically Morrison powers - "my Magic Car" indeed...
 
 
_Boboss
09:59 / 15.01.04
but the Whale should be Welsh, no?
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
10:32 / 15.01.04
I won't bore you with my enthusiasm for what I've heard (its already in the 151 thread) but Sublime appears to be the Beast.
I'm guessing Apolyon is Fantomex... although I can't fathom why he's altered.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
10:38 / 15.01.04
Because he isn't fantomex, that's why.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
12:16 / 15.01.04
I presume you know this rather than you guess this?

The issue isn't out for a while right?
 
 
The Falcon
13:08 / 15.01.04
21/1/04

'Brian's Magic Car'? - Morrison's kept that under his hat for 10 years.

Apollyon certainly looks like the boy Fantomex.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:44 / 15.01.04
Man, at first I was all, wait a second, what just happened? They got the egg back? Is this some (another) alternate reality? And then, duh, it's the Proud People. Hell of an opening.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
15:38 / 15.01.04
It's like a Thor comic gone Image! Weird.

Those pages are superconfusing.
 
 
Aertho
16:30 / 15.01.04
It's more like Morrison killing off more old X-Men ideas. Of course the PROUD people would have to die.
For more information on Apollyon, see: http://www.leftbehind.com/channelbooks.asp?pageid=77&channelID=41

Seems Apollyon is a cheif demon who is supposed to attack and destroy all those who do not possess "God's sign/sigil/third species mark. Why not just slap on a cross and live, right? Again, of course, the PROUD people would have to die.

And I have no idea who Apollyon is, and I'm not sure it matters just yet. I DO however think that Fantomex is JohnADreamsing it all over the place and playing black vs white to suit his personal desires.

I DO think that Apocalypse is behind it ALL, and I think Beast is NOT possessed. I think Martha might be though. Maybe John Sublime was always just a body being commandeered by the mutant brain?
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
17:25 / 15.01.04
Just a hunch, rawkus.
 
 
smh2001
17:53 / 15.01.04
Ernst seems to know that Scott is Apocalypse in 150.

Also in 150 Jean is communicating to Xavier from the future with Wolverine. Transatlantis appears in the background.
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
18:42 / 15.01.04
Explain. I can't see what you're saying quite, but I'm sure you have your reasons.
 
 
FinderWolf
19:53 / 15.01.04
OK, now that the spoiler/speculation is out - are we saying that Beast has ALWAYS been Sublime for most of Grant's NXM? Or that, at a specific point, they switched places or Sublime took the Beast's place?

I think far more likely is that in the future of "Here Comes Tomorrow," the Beast we know & love is dead and somehow, at some point, Sublime got some Beastie DNA and injected himself with it, just like they said he has access to pretty much all mutant powers/DNA/combos.

smh, what do you mean 'Ernst seems to know Scott is Apcalypse'? Are you putting forth a theory that Scott is Apocalypse?

Hey, for the record, is the name "En Nabah Sur" actually Arabic or something like that, a la "Ra's al Ghul"? Or is it just a made up sci-fi evil villain name? (I guess Scott Lobell probably named this character?) Well, at least for all the fans who wanted En Nabah Sur mentioned, he was finally mentioned in 150.
 
 
FinderWolf
20:19 / 15.01.04
Re: The Proud People

My inner geek notes that the name of deceased X-Man Thunderbird (who died in the first appearance of the ALL-NEW, ALL-DIFFERENT X-MEN adventure with Krakatoa, the Nuclear Living Island/Volcano - UNCANNY X-MEN #94) was a Native American/American Indian mutant named James Proudstar. And there was a Thunderbird II who hung with X-Force for a while. I wonder if this is a geekalicious tip o' the hat from Grant?
 
 
smh2001
20:49 / 15.01.04
Ernst screams, "He's coming!" before Cyclops shoots Mags from below after Mags says to Ernst, "I always knew there was something different about you." Somehow Ernst knows. Maybe it has something to do with Martha.

Also, it was Martha who caused John Sublime to jump from Emma's grip in Germ Free Generation.

Maybe one of those brains we see in the future is from Mags' decapitated skull.
 
 
LDones
22:07 / 15.01.04
HunterWolf: Scott's namedropped En Sabah Nur in Grant's run no less than three times prior to 150. And James Proudstar is actually IN an issue, working for X-Corp in India (I think). Ethan Van's last issue, whatever the number was.

smh: "He's coming!" could mean anything. It could just mean "Scott Summers is coming to beat your ass and thus I am getting the hell out of the way!" And it seems somewhat obvious to me that Ernst is Cassandra Nova/Stuff put back into the mutant educational process.
 
 
doyoufeelloved
14:13 / 18.01.04
This issue is out on Wednesday the 21st (of January -- this Wednesday). They did a quick turnaround from 151, which was nice -- I guess they knew most of us would've read the preview and didn't want to twiddle our thumbs for over two months.

"Die for us" was great. I just reread Morrison's JLA run last week (soooooo good) and it was an echo of one of my favorite bits -- "Nnnn yes! DIE FOR DARKSEID!"
 
 
doyoufeelloved
14:15 / 18.01.04
According to a quick Googling on a soccer team website (ha!), En Sabah Nur means "The Chosen Ones." Dunno what language that is; the character's supposed to be from 3000 BC Egypt. What were they speaking there then?

This could all be nonsense; one of the kids on that site might be a comic geek who made up his own translation. Will poke a bit more.

UPDATE: Apparently, Marvel's translation is wrong -- "En Sabah Nur" in Arabic translates as "The Seven Lights." Could the phrase exist in some other relevant language as "The Chosen Ones"? Is this worth the time I'm spending on it? I really ought to get away from the computer...
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:33 / 18.01.04
Just to make something clear: The Thunderbird who died in the second All New All Different X-Men story is named John Proudstar. He has never come back to life. James Proudstar is the guy who was a Hellion and then a member of X-Force, and was seen as part of the X-Corporation in New X-Men. He is John's younger brother.

Also: When Ernst says "he's coming!," I'm certain she just means "Cyclops is here to fight Magneto!"
 
 
Tamayyurt
16:49 / 18.01.04
doyoufeelloved- Actually, the name En Sabah Nur literally means "The First One".
 
 
malpractice
18:19 / 18.01.04
Apparently it doesn't really translate. 'En' means 'That', 'Sabah' means 'a morning' and 'Nur' means 'light'. So, if anything, it means 'That Morning Light'.

(I C&P-ed this from the X-Fan character bios. You need to register to see them, so I didn't link directly.)
 
 
I'm Rick Jones, bitch
21:39 / 18.01.04
We'll just put this down to the general shittiness of marvel comics, shall we?

Starting to doubt this is poccy. Shame. Lots of unfulfilled potential in that character. Ah well. there's always Ultimate X-Men to have another go. And it isn't as shit now Mark "I Suck! I FUCKING Suck! I've never written a decent comic in my life! Check out my fucking cool dialouge, duders!" Millar is off it.
 
 
spidervirus
22:56 / 18.01.04
i keep reading all this speculation of ernst being cassandra nova. is this implied anywhere in the book? i don't remember this being mentioned in any of the pages.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:22 / 18.01.04
I'm wondering what is making people think that it's not En Sabah Nur, despite all of the evidence to suggest that it is. What is making you think that it's not? Other than gut instinct?
 
 
Aertho
23:24 / 18.01.04
It's inferred that Ernst is Cassandra through her confidence in her scenes with Magneto in NXM 150 and that pic of Cassandra with Martha from the previews in Wizard. Other than that, we have Xorn's observation of Ernst during the Riot, "Ernst needs someone to be responsible for."


Now, if you are willing to accept that Cassandra is actually Weapon Eleven, and that Grant assigned each weapon a different VMeme... Cassie is Red, AKA Maniacal Egocentricity. Devolve her in her Stuff psychic education prison, and counter her programming with a child's need for purpose and affection, and she actually evolves to become little Ernst.

Ernst is what again, actually? A painter, right?
 
 
Eskay Uno
02:11 / 19.01.04
Hey Chesed, what're VMemes? And what do you suggest the other Weapons fall under?
 
 
Aertho
12:56 / 19.01.04
first think of a matryoshka doll, they're those russian hollow dolls that have repetitions of themselves inside of them. You start with this little wooden painted doll, and then there are larger dolls that go around it, ad infinitum. For a better idea of what I'm talking about, see: http://www.natashascafe.com/html/doll.html

VMemes are a unit of measuring levels of consciousness and the evolution of the "self" in something called Spiral Dynamics, a psychological theory proposed by Drs. Beck and Cohen and revered by Morrison and Kenny Wilbur. Spiral Dynamic VMemes describe the emotions and rationality of different kinds of people. Each of the dolls can be representative of a different wave/layer of "self". As you get higher and higher and on larger and larger dolls, the Vmeme level of "self" begins to include a larger and wider sense of "self".

In short, the Vmemes can be attrributed like this:

The First Level - AN - Beige vMEME Code that produces instinctive skills in the rain forest, the savanna, the bush, on the tundra, in the inner city, as well as in cases of serious deprivation and human tragedy.
I think we were supposed to see that Nuke dude with the flag painted on his face as Beige.

The Second Level - BO - Purple vMEME Code that creates animistic thinking, bond humans to closely-knit groups, and enriches inanimate objects with vMEMETIC meanings and magical significance.
Chief(Purple)
Tribal chieftain, family patriarch, corporate founder, head of a family business
Weapon X//Wolverine//memeory implants confuse him to the point where he defines himself according to his "family" and X-Men "tribe".

The Third Level - CP-Red vMEME Code that awakens individual senses of the impulsive self while generating powerful images of aggressiveness, conquest, predator/prey relationships, and pontifications from on high perches-high horses, kings of the hill, and queens of the valley, or vice versa..
Achiever(Red)
Head of a fiefdom, gang leader, team captain/coach, opportunist leader, mafia head, celebrity “personality”
Weapon XI//Cassandra//Super-powerful mutant Cass destroys her two biggest rivals Magneto and Xavier in one super-violent hammer throw.

The Fourth Level - DQ - Blue vMEME Code that engenders transcendent purpose, impulse control; creates abstract causes, principles, explanations, and orders, while imposing authority-driven command structures.
Authority(Blue)
Religious leader, bureaucratic government official, professional, leader of a traditional institution
Weapon XII//Zona, the Huntsman//Viral hive-mind suppresses will and individual thought amongst the collective in order to fulfill

The Fifth Level - ER - Orange vMEME Code that frees the autonomous person, creates the algorithms of strategic changeability, and shifts the thinking away from fatalistic ideology and into pragmatics and positivism.
Strategist/Entrepreneur (Orange)
General, CEO, political party leader, entrepreneur
Weapon XIII//Fantomex//misdirects and manipulates to win and succeed.

The Sixth Level - FS - Green vMEME Code that rejects authoritarian and materialistic codes while awakening the individual to inner states in a search for harmony, and external communities in a quest for peace and caring.
Community builder(Green)
Environmental activist leader, president of a company with a social purpose
Weapon XIV, Stepford Cuckoos, Consensus Thinking in its larval stage

The Seventh Level - GT - Yellow vMEME code that restores human viability to a world of vMEMETIC chaos, while legitimizing and enhancing all of the vMEME codes as they produce healthy whorls along the Spiral.
Visionary(Yellow)
leader who sees beyond the organization in its current state and sees possibilities that haven’t been envisioned before
Weapon XV//Ultimaton//Watch how he talks, he's always pontificating and wondering about the meaning of life and possibility

The Eighth Level - HU -Turquoise vMEME code that detects the holistic energy flows that bind everything together and permeate every aspect of the Kosmos. This code "sees" everything before "doing" anything.
Servant/Steward(Turquoise)
Evolved leader who realizes that his/her role is that of a conduit for all; takes their organization or system to the next level of evolution by focusing on serving stakeholders
We never see a Weapon this layer, but it's potetnially where Xavier and Phoenix and the rest are supposed to end up, maybe?
 
 
Tamayyurt
15:29 / 19.01.04
I love you, Chesed.
 
 
Quireboy
16:28 / 19.01.04
Hmm, HunterWolf thinking about your Sublime theory - that would make sense as he's got a homo perfectus to serve him. But is Sublime just another mask of Apocalypse ... though he's more like Sinister.
 
 
Eskay Uno
17:48 / 19.01.04
Chesed, I raise a pint in your name - cheers!

Is there any parallel between vMemes and Leary's 8 neurological circuits? The Chakras?

And as for SUBLIME - yeah, he and his Third Species group remind me more of Mr Sinister than Apocalypse. However, I say Sublime is not someone else in disguise or possessed by someone else, he's his own slimy self.

Some questions:
- Are Fantomex and Apollyon one and the same? Cassandra and Ernst?
- Will Xorn return?
- Scott and Emma make a great couple and I hope they stay together post Morrison, but why must Scott always wear the panties in his relationships?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
19:20 / 19.01.04
Because he's a sub.
 
  

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