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New X-Men #152

 
  

Page: 12345(6)7

 
 
Tamayyurt
02:47 / 30.01.04
Don't know if this has been mentioned but I just noticed it...Um, this badass all horused out Beak isn't our chickenheaded Bernard. He's some guy called Tito. Cassandra call him that in the issue. I'm guessing he's one of Beak and Angel's sons. If so, what happened to all his brothers and sisters?

Now, if I'm missing something, please let me know.
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
05:24 / 30.01.04
Your're missing the "previously" blurb... it says Tito is Beak's grandson there.
 
 
Aertho
11:44 / 30.01.04
Was the reason Esme had Angel shoot Emma ever discovered or talked about? Maybe it's oot at this point, but what did Emma find out that necessitated her death? I'm ASSUMING Sublime was behind it, and Magneto played a part in it, because of Sage's mindwipe and the driverless car, but did anyone get a clue along the way?
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
13:42 / 30.01.04
Emma was told by Angel that Esme was behind supplying Kick to the student body. Esme discovered the Emma knew and decided that she needed offing, Kick being behind the deaths of quite a few people Esme was worried at being ousted before her plans had come to fruition. I presume those plans were Magneto related.
I can't remember where this was revealed or even if it was revealed in such a frank manner but thats the version of events I have in my head...
 
 
Quimper
15:25 / 30.01.04
I don't recall all of that being spilled out. I always just assumed that it was all part of Magneto's plan to destroy the X-Men (Emma's dead, Jean is under suspicion, Scott will be affected), coupled with Esme's hatred for Emma. All of the clues put this at the Magneto/Esme level and not anywhere above their heads, like Sublime or Weapon Plus. Except for the diamond bullet...
 
 
Rawk'n'Roll
19:37 / 30.01.04
Esme is of course an extension of Magneto so although I didn't mention him he was implied.

The actual reasoning I do believe I've garnered from too much forum posting and is something I've concoted so that the bloody story makes sense.

This is where I started getting annoyed at having to invent the reasons for the stories myself instead of being told the story by the writer (can you tell I'm a bit bitter about the last couple of arcs?)
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
01:57 / 31.01.04
One of the examples is Anthony Stewart Head was reported on aintitcoolnews.com as saying "I thought Joss was going to focus on my RIPPER series next, not write some bloody comic book."

I've pointed this out in another thread, but what the hell: Whedon has been involved with Fray comics for a while now. Head could very well have been referring to those comics.
 
 
DaveBCooper
15:38 / 03.02.04
Join the club, rawkusboi. But I don’t think this thread welcomes such comments; on the whole, people seem more keen to discuss why it’s all a plot by ApocaNotOnThePage or whatever.

The Emperor and Phoenix-at-the-end-of-NXM-152 appear to go to the same tailor.
 
 
The Falcon
17:22 / 03.02.04
Cheer up, misery gutses!

You don't like it. I think everyone knows now.

Well done.

'Tisn't very important, though, is it? Smile!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:43 / 03.02.04
Stop oppressing him, Falcon!
 
 
The Falcon
19:02 / 03.02.04
I love puzzle-fiction, maself. Great fun.

'S why I liked Donnie Darko so much, and why I am so down with PKD and Burroughs.
 
 
The Falcon
19:09 / 03.02.04
And this, obviously.
 
 
DaveBCooper
08:21 / 04.02.04
Thanks for the assumption, but my guts are fine, thanks. I just feel that any kind of level-headed assessment of Grant’s last 12 or so issues of New X-Men has rather been lost under the wave of plugging-the-gaps speculation and the like, which is a bit of a pity.

Maybe it’s because it’s the X-Men, who many people here clearly have a great knowledge of and affection for, that people are willing to accept some questionable storytelling (like, who DID shoot Emma ? Is there more than one person called Sublime ? How DID Magneto engineer the whole Xorn thing? Who’s making Kick? None of those are answered on the page, as far as I can recall, though I’m happy to be pointed to the appropriate issues) and some very questionable dialogue and pacing.
For my part, because it’s being written by Grant Morrison, I expect the opposite, and I certainly don’t expect to have to rely on internet postings to tell me what’s happening in the story. That’s technically referred to as ‘bad writing’, and having followed Grant’s writing since the days of Ulysses Sweet, I expect better.
Just cos it’s the X-Men doesn’t make it acceptable.

Or, if you prefer, Bizarro DBC : Me LIKE New X-Men ! Beak is Best-developed character of all time, and Quire second better ! Not shallow teen-angst version of Magneto at all ! Me hope it am Apocalypse or some-other hardly-referred to badgoodguy behind it all, that GOOD writing ! Take my money. Me not got better things to do with.
Maybe it am the Vanisher or Batroc. That be good twist !
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
09:19 / 04.02.04
So wait, you're not actually paying money for this anymore?

Bizarro am, bizarro does.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
09:59 / 04.02.04
Loads of people have expressed their dissatisfaction or unease with the major problems in the pacing, structure, etc of NXM throughout Grant's run, Dave. I'm sorry, I know you really want to be Jeremiah (don't we all?), but they have. However many of us are unwilling to dismiss the run on the basis that there are too many unanswered questions until the run is actually finished. If in two issues' time Morrison has failed to give us some answers, I'll be annoyed as anyone else. Until then, people speculate: c'est la vie.
 
 
The Falcon
10:12 / 04.02.04
Angel, under the influence of Esme, shot Emma. All inna comic - #141, the conclusion to the Murder arc, in which the perpetrator is revealed. Pay attention, Dave.
 
 
doctorbeck
10:30 / 04.02.04
i thought whoever shot her was 6ft tall and white? or was that just in my head

unless the next 2 issues are just the beast standing in some kiby knock-off pose as energy crackles around him spelling out issue by issue how everything happened and all fits into place in a brilliant talmudic-tachyon-tarot conspiracy i will come away feeling that the best writing on NXM has been on barbelith

saying that quite enjoying the 90s retro stylings of this last arc, even tho it looks like the sort of stuff that made me stop buying comics 13 years ago

a
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
10:35 / 04.02.04
embdi think Here Comes Tomorrow is Morrison's un/sub - conscious take on Moore's Twighlight of the Gods proposal?

I do.
 
 
Aertho
12:00 / 04.02.04
The six foot dude was the one in the cabin when Sage first made it out onto the schoolgrounds. She looks up, sees the eggsacs, and someone tall levels a gun at her head. Later she says the gun was at her ribcage, but ... c'est la vie? Anyway, it was implied tTHAT guy was Magneto/Xorn, becasue she walked away from that with gigabytes wiped from her brain. Magnets disrupt computers, we all know that.

I'm confusd as to WHAT EMMA FOUND OUT, and why Angel didn't know what it was. We were led to believe in the end of the "Riot" issues that Angel informed Emma of her pregnancy, but that was PROBABLY misdirection. Instead, perhaps Angel told Emma that Esme was the one selling Kick, but was mindwiped from her during the point she was remote-controlled. Perhaps half of Beak's exposition through "Murder" were references to ESME going to tell and get them expelled.

IF Emma DID know it was Esme selling drugs, why didn't she say so at any point during Planet X? It's the reason she was killed, for God's sake. You think the bitch would be pissed as all hell and ranting to Henry.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:15 / 04.02.04
It's never established that Esme is the one selling Kick, is it? I think in retrospect a strong possibility is that Emma hadn't found anything out after all, but that Magneto in his paranoia thought she might have...
 
 
DaveBCooper
12:33 / 04.02.04
It WOULD be marvellous if the last issue had the density of the last issue of the Invisibles, wouldn’t it ? I’d like that, really would. Hell, it’d be great if more comics had that kind of density, full stop.

Falcon, thanks for the pointer on the killer (though subsequent posters seem as unsure as I was). I’ll look that out.

And Flyboy, you raise a fair point about waiting until the end of the run, though some of the run’s more vocal supporters seem to have suggested that anyone who doesn’t think the book’s quite what it could/should be ought to shut up about their quibbles and stop buying it; I think the appropriate response probably lies somewhere between that and my killjoy stance, as you say, and wait and see…

Sudden thought : have we seen Dust in this storyline ? Aside from the one scene in the Mansion, I can’t recall her being of any great relevance to the plot, given the hoo-ha (and the number of pages) surrounding her introduction. Again, could be my faulty memory, but…
 
 
Quimper
14:29 / 04.02.04
Regarding the attempted murder of Emma Frost:

Emma didn't find anything out. Angel's line about finding something out but not knowing what was just how her brain was still responding to being hijacked. She was controlled to feel the emotion of wanting to kill Emma for some reason. There was no reason. She didn't find anything out. That's just how Esme controlled Angel's mind. She "didn't know what" b/c there wasn't anything to know. Esme just hated her and Magneto wanted the X-Men hurt.

It reminds me how some of Grant's lines are meant to invoke the emotion contained within and not be so literal. Like Emma waking up from Martha's influence in Germ Free Generation. "You've got to get blood on your spacesuit" woke her up b/c of the toughen-up emotional response involved and b/c it in some way applied to emma's diamond skin and bloody nose.

I always thought the cabin contained a mind-numbed Angel, Esme and Xorneto when the second part of Murder ended...the three players in the murder attempt.
 
 
The Falcon
00:26 / 05.02.04
Yeah. I'm pretty clear on the details on 'Murder...'; though Jean says in #148 "Esme, the young girl from Emma's group, was caught dealing Kick... she tried to kill Emma and implicate young Angel... so where does Magneto fit into all of this?" The first two clauses are a straight-from-the-horse's-mouth synopsis of that arc there, but the latter remains unresolved. As for Sage's attacker, it was never stated outright, but the 'Sun in a box!' gibberish in #141, would seem to point in the right direction. And the computer mindshite. Also, *kaff* Magneto is the right height for the attacker's description *kaff*. Presumably Emma found out offscreen, then.

Sometimes reading messageboards can confuse the issue, eh?

Yawn - with the houses/races? Could be, yeah.

DBC - you are spot on about Dust, who has destroyed Cerebra, and was the reason Wolverine and Fantomex first met, but otherwise... I'm hopeful she'll appear somewhere in this last arc, 'cos she ain't warranted her (lovely) cover as yet.
 
 
Sax
09:02 / 05.02.04
I'm wondering if developing the Dust character has been dropped completely. About a year ago I was in contact with Grant about writing a piece on the fact he was writing a Muslim "superhero" in a mainstream comic. I got a message that we could do an interview in "four or five months when the character has a major storyline". Which obviously never happened.
 
 
Quimper
17:30 / 07.02.04
So Martha is the engine that runs the Blackbird of the Future, eh? Martha=Engine. Hmmmm... Martha=Brain. Hmmmm....

You name me one disembodied brain that is NOT evil! Is Martha pulling the strings? Has she been this whole time?

Did Scott and Emma REALLY see Sublime fall? Or did he simply walk out the door while Martha implanted images in the X-Men's heads?

And those needles have been driving me crazy for almost three years now. Does she produce Kick or what?!? Can I be right already?
 
 
Aertho
18:23 / 07.02.04
OMG!

Martha is Weapon VXI!

Good point about Martha maybe making up images for us to think we saw Sublime fall, but at THIS point, shouldn't we be all of the understanding that everybody is potential a carrier for the Sublime entity? And I DO think Martha IS carrying a chunk of it. I think, if anything, Sublime was just the expendable "human face" that COULD die. There are other "Sublime" units, like the one at Weapon Plus, that are connected.

Just because some birds are black does not mean all birds are blackbirds.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:47 / 07.02.04
Was Dust's introduction that hyped up, really? She pops up in one issue, and is rescued and brought to the mansion. During that scene, Logan and Fantomex meet, which is pretty crucial bit of set-up for the Assault storyline. Xorn's creepy treatment of Dust in the special class is a pretty big deal, because it leads to her accidentally destroying Cerebra and Magneto revealing himself to Charles. She's less of a character than a plot device, really.

While I do think that there's something we don't know about Martha, I'm not sold on her being evil. The thing that always sticks with me is that one scene in Riot At Xavier's where she's deeply afraid of the U-Men because they were the ones who took her body away. Also, there's the bit where Esme is controlling Martha and making her sound "all snotty." I think Martha is meant to be a good person.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:50 / 07.02.04
Speaking of Martha, I think that provided she's not an evil whatever, she's a character with great potential for future writers. It would be interesting to get to know her - she's a teenage full-body amputee! What's it like to be nothing but a mind?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
19:52 / 07.02.04
I think Quimper is probably right in that Martha is probably the source of Kick.
 
 
Simplist
21:17 / 07.02.04
Was Dust's introduction that hyped up, really? [...] She's less of a character than a plot device, really.

The hype surrounding Dust was external to the book itself, and was almost entirely generated by a misreported story that Morrison would be introducing a Muslim character whose mutant power made her a "human bomb", which concept has certain rather obvious disadvantages in the current sociopolitical climate. If not for that little misrepresentation, I doubt the character would ever have been hyped at all.
 
 
Aertho
21:34 / 07.02.04
You know, if Martha IS the one resposible for the production of Kick, then she might actually BE the turqoise level Weapon XVI. I HIGHLY doubt it, but the "floating brain" that engenders the amplification-of-evolution makes quite a case for the holistic fully-integrated and all-viewing description of the transpersonal vMeme. That would be cool...

But we've only got two issues left.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
22:25 / 07.02.04
I think that Kick is probably derived from a unique hormone in Martha's brain or part of Martha's genetic structure that has since been replicated in labs now that she is in the custody of the Xavier Institute. I would think that Sublime Pharmeceuticals created Kick after tinkering around with Martha's brain/DNA.
 
 
■
07:50 / 08.02.04
I haven't got 152 yet, but I'd like to put forward a little theory. I'm a bit fuzzy on the specifics, but I recall reading that one of the ways to contain particles is to use a 'magnetic bottle'. Now, if the Phoenix force is released when Jean dies, could MAgneto's magnetic force be released when he dies? If so, could there be some kind of interaction where (In a Zenith kinda way) Magneto's power, combined with the netron bombs which I am presuming are the white at the end of 150 has trapped the Phoenix force and created a Bottle Universe?
OK, it's a hazy theory, and needs a bit more thought.
 
 
Aertho
15:56 / 10.02.04
Hey Flux, how did you come to the conclusion that Martha's brain may be generating Kick? I'm just interested in your rationale... I think it's a cool twist.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:49 / 10.02.04
Well, it's just a guess, but it seems logical. It's established right away that Kick is a hormone. In the panel where we first see Martha, John Sublime is talking about using x-hormones. Brains produce hormones. Martha's brain produces "psycho-chaff" which blinds mutant minds - this could be part of why the drug eventually makes the users go mad and die. John Sublime mentions that he controls her supply of this hormone. It's not hard to imagine that Sublime Pharmeceuticals crafted the Kick drug from Martha's brain. (Or just as well some other mutant, but it being Martha is convenient for the story.)
 
  

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