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Spiderman 2 news (PICS)

 
  

Page: 123(4)5

 
 
grant
00:41 / 13.07.04
Oh, and for those of you who skipped out before the credits were done, y'all are SUCKERS, because the third song in was a kick ass swing cover of the original Spider-Man TV theme. It burned.

Why they never did that with any of the Batman movies is beyond me -- the music is so identified with the character in the public's mind, it seems wrong to skip over it.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:58 / 13.07.04
Yeah, I heard this - big-band Harry Connick Jr.-esque version of the classic 60s cartoon song kicks ass!! it's hilarious - I can't believe they recorded it! Genius!!
 
 
FinderWolf
19:57 / 13.07.04
I think the Butch Cassidy reference was already mentioned in this thread, but I don't think the Godspell one was:

And the freeze frame (as well as the use of "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head") is a homage to Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, which was the first time that song (which was brand-new at the time) had been in a movie. Butch Cassidy ends with a freeze frame of the heroes facing their last showdown.

The other big movie homage in this is the subway sequence where the riders he just saved carry him over their heads -- this is a homage to the movie version of the musical "Godspell" (also from the late 60s/early 70s, as is Butch Cassidy), where the guy playing Jesus is dressed in a Superman costume when he's crucified, and his followers/the chorus take him down from the cross and pass him over their heads. Peter/Spidey has his arms out in the Jesus position in that subway scene.
 
 
+#'s, - names
04:36 / 14.07.04
That was totally hot when Dr. Octagon said Spiderman, you need a bad operation.
 
 
Spyder Todd 2008
21:10 / 14.07.04
I hated the annoying woman's annoying 60's spider-man theme. But everything else was aces. Saw it again last night, loved it even more. And is it possible that Harry won't be a Goblin? I know the book history and all, but I kind of like the idea of him just dealing with the fact that his father killed a bunch of people and deserved to die...
 
 
_Boboss
11:49 / 17.07.04
the cat-looking girl with the white hair must be the black cat. glass of milk? what do you need her to say, saucer? plus she knocked over the cooking in her first shot: bad luck power. what's more intriguing i think is the kid helping aunt may, they kept saying his name and i think raimi could make rocket racer pretty cool. have i got his name right? the one with the skateboard?
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
21:25 / 17.07.04
OK, my feelings post- watching the film, I'll reply to other peoples' opinions in another post.


I wasn't that impressed. I'm not a Tobey Maguire fan so any film which has him front and centre trying to emote rather than putting on the silly costume is not going to rate highly with me. The second film has so much thematically in common with the first it could sue for plagiarism. But Maguire isn't the only problem here, he, Kirsten Dunst and James Franco have to carry the film as the triangle of the younger cast and they just don't manage it. At no point does there seem to be any spark of interest between Mary-Jane and Peter, you would have thought that as M-J is supposed to be such a good actress she could at least pretend. But as one of the most interesting loose ends from the first film was the relationship between Harry Osborn and Peter while Harry wanted revenge for the 'murder' of his father the scene where Harry finally discovers Peter and Spiderman are one and the same is laughable in either tension or drama.

In acting stakes the film is rescued by it's older cast. Alfred Molina steps in to Willem Dafoe's shoes as 'crazy supercriminal that likes Peter while fighting Spidey'. Some effort is made to make him an interesting and three-dimensional character. We see more sides to him in his first scene where he meets Peter than we see Maguire performing in the rest of the movie. And despite having to dispense even more fortune cookie wisdom even Rosemary Harris as Aunt May manages to outshine the youngsters. The script is worse this time, presumerably to show Peter's angst Spiderman is almost silent in his fights, almost completely quip-free.

The first film seemed hampered because there was so much backstory it had to put into place, Peter getting his powers, his uncle dying, with great power blah blah blah. Sequels tend to blossom because they're largely freed from the necessity for world-building (look at X-Men and X2). S2 makes it look as if it was only those key origin scenes that actually held the first film together.

The main problem with film two is that there are two stories going on which don't work together. There's the fairly standard 'Spidey versus Doc Ock' story but the second story is one of responsibility, why should Peter Parker put his life on the line for others when he's in danger of loosing his apartment, when he can't make it to class, when he can't even have a relationship for fear of what some villain might do if they found out. So we have the slightly farcical situation in the middle of the movie, when Spidey has rescued some kids from being run over, stopped some criminals, saved countless people from being destroyed by Doc Ock's malfunctioning machines and fought off Doc Ock and saved Aunt May that he decides that obviously there's no point or value to being Spiderman and throws his costume away, deciding just to be Peter and not Spidey.

He does have a physical problem, namely his powers sputtering in and out. It seems psychosomatic but connected to what it's not clear. It can't be stress as there can't be more moments in one's life as stressful as trying to be killed by a 16 stone bruiser with four powerful cybernetic tentacles while he's hanging your aunt off a building. No, it seems that the root cause of this malady is one of plot, when the script-writers need help to start Peter along the path of doubting himself his powers start to vanish, when it's time for the main event they come back again.

This same plot device that upsets Peter's powers also has a negative effect on Mary-Jane's hormones as, not get anywhere with Peter, she announces halfway through the film she's getting married to J. Jonah Jameson's astronaut son. Peter's overdeveloped ego stops him from trying to woo her himself, but of course she gets kidnapped by Ock, rescued by Spidey and discovers he's Peter. She then runs out on the wedding to be with him rather than the astronaut. What could have been a nice opportunity for M-J to be more than the faux liberated object of Peter's mystifying adoration by actually pointing out that Peter has got her into danger twice while trying to protect her from super-villains and if he's going to risk his life to save others he's got to allow her to risk her life by being with him is wasted as presumerably too much effort. Aunt May presumerably also knows, a scene where she talks to Peter about how life is full of difficult choices and people need heroes lacks only her saying "Petey, go out and fight that nasty man, here, I've made you a new Spiderman costume out of bits of the curtain".

The money scenes do look quite nice though. The special effects people have worked hard to make Spidey and Ock as lithe as possible, giving them a fluidity that doesn't work on the comic page. However, the scene that everyone will have seen in the trailer is the one where Peter and M-J are in a cafe and Doc Ock throws a car through the window of the cafe at them. Now, he has no suspicion at this point that Peter is Spidey. Neither of them are looking in his direction and it's only Spidey-sense that saves the pair of them from being squished. So Ock is rather careless (I can imagine him going back to Osborne and saying "I accidentally killed Parker before he could tell me where Spiderman was. Know any more of his mates I could try?"). However, as he seems to come round the corner in the next scene maybe that's just a lucky rebound of a car being thrown from further away. Quite how he's able to track down Parker isn't explained either, Ock can hardly travel secretly around town so he's exceptionally lucky to find Peter in a place not seen before in either of the two movies.

The train fight looks nice but the whole rigmarole of Spidey having to stop the train is daft. Is the best idea they can come up with for Spidey to stop a speeding train is to stand at the front and fire webs at passing buildings and hope his arms don't get ripped off? And the horrible bit when the passengers stand up to Doc Ock, "If you want Spiderman you'll have to go through us", recalling the "if you attack one of us you attack all of us" scene with the Green Goblin in the first movie, is treated with the contempt it deserves as he simply sweeps them aside. However, the moment just before, when one of the commuters says of Spidey "he's just like any of us, he's no older than my son" (or words to that effect) showed a depth of feeling sadly absent from the rest of the film.

The final fight scene at his obligatory abandoned pierside base seems strangely anti-climatic, as though the train fight was the last scene and this is just a coda to wrap things up, they fight briefly until Spidey short-circuits the arms, allowing good old Otto to regain control and sacrifice himself nobly to destroy his machine which is about to destroy the world.

All in all, though it looks pretty Spiderman 2 is a thematic mess with unengaging paper-thin characters. In the comics Harry Osborn is a noble character gone bad, it's a genuine shock when he turns evil. James Franco can only reach 'petulant' here and it's worrying if he's going to be the main threat next time, though there's another adult actor who may get involved, Doctor Curt Connors who, in the comics, becomes the savage Lizard. So we'll have to wait and see, but there's little cause for optimism.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
22:47 / 17.07.04
Lady, if I was yr editor I'd spike that review.

Loved the movie, hate this thread (with the exception of Cameron, Jefe and the ex-Birdie).

Sheesh.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
23:01 / 17.07.04
Kisses!
 
 
Our Lady Has Left the Building
07:01 / 18.07.04
What's wrong with it then Flyboy?

Reading what other people have said I must admit I find the concept of Harry being completely useless as the Green Goblin Mark Two very appealing.

And when I saw that one of Doc Ock's arms had a spike I was sure that he was going to end up stabbing himself in much the same way as GG had, so at least that was one thing from the first movie they didn't copy.
 
 
The Strobe
07:25 / 18.07.04
Hate's a strong word, Fly, and suggesting that on a four page thread that only a couple out of nearly 140 posts are of any value is a bit harsh on, well, everyone who isn't Jefe, Cameron or Birdie. I mean, you seem to be saying there's something wrong with the reasons many people liked this movie, or at least the way they expressed it.

Care to elaborate?
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
13:59 / 18.07.04
I love that Tobey Maguire is now referred to as "the hunky Tobey Maguire" (on TV, just a second ago). Being Spider-Man does work!

I can't believe I haven't actually talked about what I thought about this film, yet. I will.

I loved it. Quickly...

Love that Peter is kind of stuck in immaturity, by way of being Spider-Man missed actually growing up. I love how Peter seems goofier this time out. I love how funny (albeit a more general and slapstick humour rather than quip-heavy) and fun this film is. I love how it actually surprised me by feeling different to the first one - which now seems pretty straight ahead story-wise wheras this one branches out all over the place, in ways I never imagined we'd see in the films (vibrant filmmaking can be attributed to this, I think). I love that this film encapsulates all of the stuff I like about Spider-Man, feeling at once like a Saturday morning cartoon stretched to feature length, all of the best Spidey comics I ever read slapped on the big screen and acted out by the only people I could really imagine in these roles (I remember thinking "Hmm, Jake Glynenhaal might have been pretty good", but as soon as the film got going thinking "Christ, I'm glad they didn't have to use him"). I guess I love Peter's emo style (which is kinda how it makes sense in the modern context) - in the luck stakes. The "raindrops" sequence. Failing powers - YES! Exactly as in the comics. Really feeling like he can't carry on anymore. The one thing he had right, to get away from his personal problems just conking out on him forcing his refusal to carry on... before the desperation of realising he needs his powers back, such a classic story, and I'm glad how the villain works in this story. It's less important than the first one - even though he drags Parker's life right in to it, it doesn't have the same sense of The Green Goblin - Spider-Man's mortal foe!!! which makes me feel a little lethargic. I have a feeling as a trilogy it may be bookended by the two more tragic tales, and this one in the middle is almost the anti-Empire Strikes Back, ie, full of fun (I should point out I find seeing "tortured Parker" a lot of fun), but containing the real meat of the story. As well as Ock just being an all round better cinematic villain and allowing what feel like proper superhero battles.

The references to the first film - fire, standing up to villain, etc - felt like they merely expanded on the original themes of the basic Spider-Man story and how things had changed this time out, as any good sequel should.

Mary Jane being exactly as MJ should be, ie, she really is one of those people who will always be in a relationship, accidentally hurting people, coming from an unhappy home background and needing something to cling to even though all she really wants are the simple homely ways of a certain Peter Parker. Although a little more on her relationship w/ Jameson might have been nice, all we reeeeally need to know he's an all round American kinda guy (ie, the new Flash). Yes! Shades of grey, shades of grey! I love that she tries to cling to the kind of life she thinks she should have, and that Peter urges to her to stick with, before realising she can't do it, which is so very like Mary Jane. I love that the film goes so far with emphasising the emotions and that the corniness of it fits right in to the feel of the comics.

J.K. Simmons seems so, so perfect.

I love Willem Dafoe showing up. He seemed almost clunky in the last film, but fitted right in here, which I think is a credit to the feel of the whole piece.

I love Sam Raimi, cutting loose.

Sequels? Self indulgent geek out time... Was Harry ever the Hobgoblin, or is that a change that's planned for the movie? No Black Cat, no Venom (so pleased to hear Raimi's lack of enthusiasm for this character!). I don't think there's any time to really explore romantic feelings for another girl, unless there's more than one sequel coming (but it would also be a bit lame anyway after PP finally gets the girl of his dreams). I'd prefer to see less of Connors, because I can only imagine him as the creepy paedophile from Happiness. I'm not sure how far they could go with him on his own in filmic terms, but I can see it working quite well as a tandem villain, maybe. I quite like the idea of Harry being an inept Goblin, making him even more sad and tragic. To be honest, though, I'd like to see it rounded off as a trilogy with everyone being friends and Peter and MJ getting married. Although maybe a little Goblin/crazed Harry/fighting in suits/MJ "where is Peter/what's happened to him/is this worth it?" action in and around it might be fun, too. And then for a honeymoon a final goblin showdown with Harry. Ah, I dunno. I think they should keep it in the frame of the original classic run of Spidey as much as they can, and try and round off the basic essential Spidey tale as best they can.

Wow, what a ramble that turned in to.
 
 
Lord Morgue
08:32 / 19.07.04
Trouble with Spidey is, unlike Batman, you run out of good villains too fast. I mean, after Green Goblin and Doc Oc, who is there? Mysterio? Electro? Sandman? The fucking GIBBON?! Let's face it, Spidey's rogue's gallery of losers barely make it even as a team. Eh, as overused and driven into the ground as Venom is, he's the only Spiderman foe left with any pizazz.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:27 / 21.07.04
weird tidbit I read in a Cinescape article on SPidey 2:

>> 5. Nods to the future

Did you know that Gwen Stacy appears in SPIDEY 2? Apparently she does, according to the credits, and she's not that sweet cake-serving girl from across the hallway.

Huh? I wonder who and where this "Gwen Stacy" shows up? Anyone???
 
 
FinderWolf
15:35 / 21.07.04
>> the cat-looking girl with the white hair must be the black cat. glass of milk? what do you need her to say, saucer? plus she knocked over the cooking in her first shot: bad luck power.

You really think the landlord's daughter next door is the Black Cat? You thought her hair was white and that she was 'cat-looking'? I didn't think so on either account (I thought her hair was blonde and didn't see her as looking like a cat), but I guess anything's possible... although reading the knocking over of the cooking stuff as bad luck power is an interesting way of reading that bit. (I thought it was just to show that she was geeky and clumsy, esp. when she gets flustered upon seeing her crush, Peter) I don't think she's meant to be the Black Cat, though.

Yeah, Willem's cameo rocked here. He's so intense and spooky. His "AVENGE ME!" comes off as damn scary rather than the cheesiness it could be, all because of his acting prowess. His "...and I'm your father" is hardcore also.
 
 
FinderWolf
15:37 / 21.07.04
>> Failing powers - YES! Exactly as in the comics. Really feeling like he can't carry on anymore.

just curious -- Did his powers ever fail because of his emotional state or stress in the comics? I thought they only failed when he had the flu (in the early Stan Lee issues)?

And yeah, the woman with the fiddle singing bad 60s Spidey TV show song is a silly Raimi-ism I could have done without.
 
 
Suedey! SHOT FOR MEAT!
20:24 / 21.07.04
To be honest, I'm not entirely sure about the specifics of the failing powers thing. Although I am in the mood to read through the essential books again. I think it works either way, though, even if it was more flu-based in the comics. ie, in the film Peter is tired, depressed and unhappy - so it all kinda makes sense. I really like the way it was done - and we got failing webshooters! I never thought about working that in that way.
 
 
Benny the Ball
09:26 / 22.07.04
I thought one of the better things in the film was the failing webshooters, and that PP his his head a lot after falling great distances.

But can anyone explain how a man who can stop a train bare-handed can't punch a fatheaded normal bloke with metal arms' head off. Yes Doc Oc's arms were great and pounded PP, but still being worn by a man, why did Peter's pounding not hurt him more?
 
 
Brigade du jour
10:15 / 22.07.04
I guess Spidey always pulls his punches subconsciously when hitting actual people, because of that whole not-wanting-to-kill-anyone business.
 
 
Brigade du jour
10:17 / 22.07.04
By the way, I watched SM2 on Tuesday and I'm really pissed off. I sat with two friends who muttered and fidgeted and ultimately it spoiled it for me.

But, after reading this thread from bottom to top (or maybe the other way round) I am now convinced to go and see it again before the week is out. Um ... maybe Sunday.

Anyway, the point is I want to thank each and every one of you for reconstructing my enthusiasm for the movie in record time. I doff my hat, Puss in Boots-style, to you all!
 
 
deja_vroom
11:11 / 22.07.04
Flyboy, care to elaborate?

Nah, why would he do that? He's an idiot.
 
 
FinderWolf
14:00 / 22.07.04
I thought about the 'wouldn't some jerk on the train want to spill Spidey's ID even after Spidey saved his life?' thing, but only for a split-second. It's a movie, and the whole 'willing suspension of disbelief' thing kicked in for me. Also, Spidey saved their lives, and anyone who thought about going to the papers with such a story might feel pretty guilty for just even thinking it. Whenever a small group of people share such a traumatic event, it bonds them in a unique way. 'Nuff said!

I just realized - no Flash Thompson in this movie! Not that we really needed to see him, I just hadn't thought about it til now.

"A guy named Otto Octavius gets 4 extra arms - what are the odds?"

That line is absolutely brilliant.
 
 
Brigade du jour
23:21 / 22.07.04
I wondered the same thing in a moment of unwarranted reality, Finderwolf.

But you know what? Combine the whole guilt reason with the whole "who was that anyway?" "I don't know, some kid" reason and Pete's secret is safe with all of them.
 
 
Lord Morgue
09:05 / 23.07.04
I loved the line about eating your greens, and the response- "That's exactly what my Mom is always telling me, but I never actually believed it until now!"
 
 
FinderWolf
14:40 / 23.07.04
Yeah, that line (and the kid who said it) was like awestruck cuteness personified.
 
 
The Natural Way
17:24 / 09.08.04
I completely fucking fail to understand *why* Flyboy is an "idiot". I can only assume he had the audacity to disagree with you at some point, Jade. And we all know what a mistake that is, don't we?

Anyway, I would argue that the odd slip up in realism doesn't necessarily mean the Director, studio, etc are treating the audience like idiots. And I'm relatively sure that's not Raimi's intention.

As for this:

Blech...I for one don't want to see Venom in the films. There's so many great Spidey villains to choose from, and a crappy early-90s alien monster isn't one of them.

C'mon, Cam, I expect better from you. Yr all into *the kids* and what they want, and, hey, guess what? The kids that read the Spidey books really like Venom. To my li'l bro and his friends, Venom's tops. He's the 90's spider-villain, like it or not.

And, finally, all this Black Cat business. Both Grant and Gambit notice it independently of each other. They're both pretty astute posters (fucking Gambit revealed the twist at the end of Sixth Sense to a whole room of pissed off future-viewers after hearing the high concept....), and, Wolfy, that girl is in there for a reason. She's not just some random element. And the milk, the milk, the milk. I bet, when she's got her mask on, all that shy shit drops the fuck off. Bit of a cliche, yes, but another thing pointing in the direction of black spandex and claws.
 
 
FinderWolf
18:05 / 09.08.04
I strongly argue that the nextdoor neighbor with a crush on Peter is NOT Black Cat -- we'll just have to see til Spidey 3 comes to know who's right. Or have someone interview Raimi or the screenwriters and ask that question. I and many other posters have already detailed why we think the milk and her clumsiness aren't sufficient to draw that conclusion, although I see your points. We'll just respectfully agree to disagree for now, or at least I will. Many times very 'astute' posters don't always have to be right because they're usually quite astute. No biggie. I look forward to seeing what Spidey 3 gives us, and if that next door neighbor does turn out to be the Black Cat, I will gladly eat my hat or some other hat-like thing I could consume!
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
18:21 / 09.08.04
Ah, I was being a bit of a twart*, Varriage. Jade had more basis than usual this time round. I was just kinda disappointed when I got home from seeing this all buzzing and full of JOY and saw people saying things like "how could Spiderman survive those fights? unrealistic!" and "this is for kids! stupid!". And maybe too much speculation about the details of what's next and who will become who rather than enjoying it on its own merits, but - see my last paragraph, that's understandable, so I was twartish.

Anyway...

that girl is in there for a reason

But why can't the reason just be to show that as shitty as Peter Parker's life gets, there are still some people who like him and are nice to him? Personally, I thought it was a nice little quiet moment, a nice little simple ordinary human being moment, and I'll be mildly disappointed (but also very surprised) if it turns out to be set-up. Lots of people drink milk, you know - it's a very homely, reassuring drink in a way, which I think is more the point. (I see milk gags coming...) Equally, the kid from across the street who idolises Spiderman is just the kid from across the street who idolises Spiderman. That's his significane. It's a pretty big significance.

There's a huge amount of set-up and foreshadowing in this film, though - Harry's green bowtie at the wedding, the presence of Dr Connors, and yes, the way MJ's fiance makes that jump certainly suggests he could be handy in an action scene (and Harry's right there at the wedding, well-placed to pull him to one side and buy him a consoling pint**). On the one hand, because there's so much of this kind of stuff in the film - and little nods to specific comics and so on - it's easy to get caught up in hunting for hidden easter eggs all the time. On the other hand, I think it means that for balance, there have to be some characters who are just ordinary people, and always will be.

*old skool vocab!

**a pint of VENOM. Ha ha. I kid.
 
 
The Natural Way
13:17 / 10.08.04
Well I'm totally ready for the idea that the BC thing's wrong, but there's one thing missing from the picture yr painting, Fly - the fact that the girl clearly REALLY FANCIES Peter. Now, sure, that could just be a bit of a random thing - a nice incidental detail - but I'm not sure this film's huge on those (little Boy aside) and especially not the type of detail that screams out for resolution. So: she's blonde, she suggests milk, she fancies Peter, there's two "baddies" in the next film (how to make it more interesting? Make one of them less an out-and-out baddie and more of a femme fatale/Elektra figure) and she's exactly the type of girl who, in full cliched stylee, would make a brilliant angry, beleathered fighty woman.

Yeah, there's nothing conclusive here, but I do like the idea.
 
 
FinderWolf
13:53 / 10.08.04
I feel like the moment is all about a nice, normal, sort of geeky but cute girl who fancies Peter. Someone appreciates him, someone normal, in the midst of all the chaos. Someone also is not only attracted to him but appreciates him as a person and as a friend.

Plus, let's face it: most likely, if they do Black Cat, they're going to cast a big star femme fatale type like Eliza Dukzhu, not an unknown.

I agree with Flyboy... in saying not everything is an easter egg for comic fans or foreshadowing for future films.
 
 
_Boboss
09:48 / 11.08.04
except, these films are conceived as series. if the next film does involve the black cat and it isn't girl-next-dorr, all the door-next-girl scenes in this one are disappointingly flabby and irrelevant. the whole 'interacting with a normo' doesn't strike me as being done very well considering she's obviously a bit shy and dominated by a caricature father, has freakish white hair and doesn't say much of consequence or insight to peter (far as i remember).
 
 
The Natural Way
10:18 / 11.08.04
I agree with Flyboy... in saying not everything is an easter egg for comic fans or foreshadowing for future films.

I agree with him too. You know, Wolfy, yr hardly preaching to the converted here. But I'm open to the possibilty that this particular thing could be meaningful. A random act of kindness from a stranger is a good and fine idea, but this girl has the horn. THE HORN! Something that suggests a narrative, a function as part of a plot - something requiring resolution.
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
11:19 / 11.08.04
Eh, I always thought the point of the Black Cat and Spidey's relationship was that it was all that chasing each other across rooftops in the outfits that made them hot for each other. I shall say no more, other than to reaffirm that I don't think these brief scenes are flabby and irrelevant at all, not if you want a Spiderman who has interactions as PP that don't all relate to his being Spidey...
 
 
_Boboss
11:23 / 11.08.04
well i kinda don't really. the way spider-man stories have been constructed in my experience is that all of his day to day doings are related to the fact that he's spiderman. like in the scenes with the black cat:

bc: you seem grumpy
smpp: well i am because i'm a superhero and it's causing me hassle only i can't tell anyone about it
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
12:27 / 11.08.04
Be that as it may, I think you're letting your desire for this theory to be true distort your memory of the actual film: "freakish white hair"? She's blonde, dude.
 
  

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