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Late Shift Fifteen: The Devil you Know

 
  

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Saint Keggers
02:53 / 26.05.03
Well My Capt'n Crunch says Apple Jack is going to make a great 'cabin boy' on those long nights at sea.

Oddly enough speaking of being doused with Orange Juice..when I was at the GnR, Metalica and Faith No More concert/riot security turned the hoses on us and the water or whatever was in the hose was orangejuice coloured..
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
02:53 / 26.05.03
Not particularly. Zilcho, I had hoped you had calmed down since the Ierne fiasco. I still hope that. But this obsessive fear of disrespect is disconcerting. Now, it is possible that my concerns are ill-founded. If this is the case, and you are not going to obsess, then all is well. But, insofar as it might disrupt the smooth running of the board, it is to some extent a potential problem; things have gone nuclear over yet more piddling things before.

So, how offended are you? How upsetting do you find the gag that, after your vaunting at the joy of starting a new Late Shift thread, the flag-planting was subverted? How hard are you likely to take it? Would it make sense if I moved to have every post referencing you not approved by you removed? Would that make ytou happier? And how far would you like that to extend?
 
 
Saint Keggers
02:55 / 26.05.03
I thought it was a me vs you fight. En Garde! (but the pirate in me knows i'd kick the ninja in you butt)
 
 
Mazarine
03:01 / 26.05.03
-Picks up Rhet, my field hockey stick- Bring it!

Okay, okay, I give. Mostly cause I feel kind of awkward having these two different lines of conversation running at once. It's just kinda weird. So I forfeit with the divine and entirely unsubtle subject change- Keg. Are you using the four "standard" suits for your minor arcana (Swords, Cups, Wands, Coins) or something else?
 
 
Saint Keggers
03:04 / 26.05.03
Yup...Im going standard...and using the Barb tarot thread alot. Why?
 
 
Mazarine
03:07 / 26.05.03
Just curious.
 
 
Saint Keggers
03:14 / 26.05.03
So far I only have the cup for the suits (Its an old bowling trophy my grandfather won)... I haven't found the right sword yet...Im working on designing the coin/pentacle and still looking for the perfect wand. Im mainly concentraiting on the major arcana and will worry more about the rest when I finsh them.
 
 
—| x |—
03:33 / 26.05.03
For someone who doesn’t want to discuss one and other, you sure seem eager to continue the discussion. Twelve minutes after apologizing for not being interested in discussing me, you continue to do so. Why?

Well, you say because of the whole “Ierne fiasco.” You want to talk about that again?! Sigh…

First, you were not much of a participant in any of controversy between Ierne, myself, and alleged others. So really, who are you to say what happened there—you merely saw it blow out of proportion. And who did that? Why, it was Ierne herself. She started that “Ierne’s Blind Date” thread, and I noticed that, even in my absence from the board, all that came up again in some thread in the Magick about “Identity and History” or something. So ask yourself, who is it that seems concerned with “disrespect”? In fact, if you go back to that damn dreaded diZzy, you’ll see that this whole so-called “fiasco” began exactly because it was Ierne who felt that she was being disrespected.

Second, in that other thread we see Ierne clearly state that she felt that there was this conspiracy between at least May Tricks, Rex, and myself. While I can't really speak for Rex and May Tricks, I am not aware of any such conspiracy. Moreover, I know for a fact that those "pink messages" Ierne was so upset about were intended to diffuse the situation. My only advice to May about that was it was probably better not to do it as, given the circumstances, it would probably upset Ierne further. So, who is it that is displaying “obsessive fear” right here, and even then? It seems to me that is currently yourself, and before, it was Ierne.

Besides, it seems to me that the only one going “nuclear” about this is you. You made some jab at me with suggesting that my action was inappropriate, I parried with the facts of the matter, and you then diagnosis me as having self esteem problems that need working on. Hmm, not really too offensive, I suppose..

You make reference to some sort of “flag planting” being “subverted.” I already told you how I felt about that, but if I must, let me repeat it: I don’t see the connection between your initial remarks and the accomplishing of such a task. Let’s face it Haus, you are a clever and witty fellow, and if you had wanted to make that your task, then you would have said something witty and ironic about the title or the Bladerunner quote. I mean, I know that you are capable of such things. But, I guess we aren’t supposed to be talking about one and other, so I guess I’ll stop talking about you. And while we’re on the subject of not talking about one and other, I respectfully decline to answer your barrage of questions at then end. Thank you.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
03:37 / 26.05.03
At the moment, it's 2:36 PM. I've just had lunch, replied to some emails and am getting back into work. And am compulsively listening to "Taxman" and turning it into "Batman" and realising it'd be the best crimefightin' theme ever.

Next up, a CD of jaws harp music. I'm serious.

*fingers trigger of BFG5000*
 
 
—| x |—
03:42 / 26.05.03
Well ya' know Rothkoid, I was under the impression that you lived in Australia, but when you said that you'd gone for breakfast at three am, it really threw me outta' wack as far as time zones go. I mean, I kept tryin to figure out how it could be three am for you when it was, I dunno', like midnight to me...made me wish I had a globe!
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
03:44 / 26.05.03
Oh yeah - am in Australia. The 3am was a typo that increased m'coolness. In (now) sunny Sydney, though it was raining almost horizontally about half an hour ago...
 
 
Mazarine
03:50 / 26.05.03
Poor horizontal rain. How will it ever land. Still in a good mood?
 
 
—| x |—
04:04 / 26.05.03
Horizontal rain--now that's cool--I've never seen such a thing. I mean, I've seen some hard driving rain, but not the kind I picture you as meaning.

And I think the coolness factor goes to you because you got the breakfast and I got junk food!
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
04:09 / 26.05.03
Heh.

Yeah, I'm still in a good mood. It's a pleasant way to be. Lots of work, but still nicely happy. Rock!
 
 
Saint Keggers
04:10 / 26.05.03
Horizontal Rain...sounds like the name of a mood music band.
Well its 1:09am here..Im going to go watch Children of Dune now.
Goodnight all.
and remember..no matter how you slice it, its still cake.
 
 
—| x |—
04:17 / 26.05.03
Whoo-hoo--three cheers for good moods!

"Hooray! Heerah! Heroh!"

Yeah, mood music, I could see that.

Hey, Rothkoid, you've seen a whole patch of stars that I've never seen: of that, I am certainly jealous! Do you get to see any "Southern" displays of aurora?
 
 
Mazarine
04:23 / 26.05.03
One twenty for little miss me, and I think I should be getting to bed. Night, my dears.
 
 
—| x |—
04:38 / 26.05.03
Good night Mazarine, good night Keggers.
_______________________________________

I’d like to say—for the Late Shift, and so, Barbelith records—here in part XV, “The Devil you Know,” and with respect to all that “holiday in selfawaria” / old news above, that I sorta’ don’t like having to have talked about Ierne without her, to my knowledge, being around. Moreover, I do feel bad that, because of all that happened, she is no longer a regular member of this community. Sincerely, I apologize to her for my role in this outcome. And I hope that she can forgive me because I would like to think that I’ve forgiven her.
 
 
—| x |—
04:57 / 26.05.03
And Mazarine, when you said, about forfeiting the flag game, that it was because you felt, “…kind of awkward having these two different lines of conversation running at once,” and that it was “…just kinda weird.” On reading over the thread it makes it so surreal: I find it kinda’ nice. Although, I am pretty sure I would have preferred playing the flag game instead of talking about reruns…
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
09:08 / 26.05.03
Hmm. I think we may have to nuke it from orbit.

It's the only way to be sure.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
09:30 / 26.05.03
Could somebody else explain how deflatio works to Zilcho? I don't think I'm going to get through, and don't see an awful lot of point in continuing to try.
 
 
—| x |—
10:36 / 26.05.03
Haus, don't ask someone else to fight your battles. What's your problem?
 
 
—| x |—
10:45 / 26.05.03
Also, while I have a vague, but likely somewhat reasonable sense of deflatio, it would be helpful if you filled the meaning in yourself—again, fight your own fight. While you're at it, why don't you reacquaint yourself with ignoratio elenchi?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
11:11 / 26.05.03
Well, there's not much point in me fighting my own battles, is there? You have decided to obsess in a particular direction, and I don't suppose anything very much that I say is going to steer you off that course. So, possibly somebody else might be able to explain a little more usefully. I might politely point out that the double post is often one of the signs that somebody is more interested in speaking than listening. Now, since you do not seem to have understood so far, I will try once again, but I am already expecting this to crash cacophonously against the far wall.

El Zilcho posts, very excited that he has finally started a late shift. Haus, gently mocking, suggests that this point of pride is in fact the result of poor practice (a mild deflatio). El Zilcho loses it completely at the suggestion that his actions can be criticised. Total sense of humour failure. Instead seeks validation and to get into a fight, as we have seen before but hoped was a thing of the past. Rather foolishly, Haus attempts to carry on something like a coherent conversation with him. For some reason, l Zilcho chooses this moment to start talking about conspiracies, which had not previosuly been mentioned. Haus loses the will to live when confronted with the confusion of "diffuse" and "defuse" in exactly the same context for the umpteenth time.

ignoratio elenchi, by the way, describes a conclusion defended by appeal to irrelevant precepts. Thus, for example, "Haus is pondering putting el Zilcho on ignore. This is clearly because el Zilcho's position is unassailable".

As I said above, I don't think I am going to get through. However, it is quite true that it is unfair to ask anyone else to try.
 
 
—| x |—
11:42 / 26.05.03
the double post is often one of the signs that somebody is more interested in speaking than listening.

Well your giving us all lessons in Latin, please remind yourself of the fallacy of secundum quid. Because obviously this particular case is clearly an example of me not wanting to listen to you simply because I posted twice in a row. I have been listening to you, but I don’t think you are listening to me or yourself! Put differently, I think that loud crash you hear is your own doing.

And truly Haus, you have balls when you try to paint the course of our little tiff here as:

El Zilcho posts, very excited that he has finally started a late shift. Haus, gently mocking, suggests that this point of pride is in fact the result of poor practice (a mild deflatio). El Zilcho loses it completely at the suggestion that his actions can be criticised [sic.].

Yes, I was excited to start the new late shift. Anna’s comment had the implicit inquiry, “why have the late shifts been going by so fast.” Your response is indeed a gentle mocking, but clearly not as you first tried to frame it in the context of an attempt to “subvert the flag.” No, it appears to be more an attempt to undermine the flag-bearer, but yes, gently. So I simply say something to the effect of, “well Haus, what Litherland do you live in? In case you hadn’t noticed, this is how we’ve been doing the Late Shifts recently.” Your response to this is further ad hominem attack: I simply *must* work on my self esteem. Hmm, sorta’ seems like you are the one who “lost it.” It seems to me that you started this fight.

Again, what’s your problem. If you can sincerely answer this, then I think you can avoid a trip to selfawaria.

Haus attempts to carry on something like a coherent conversation with him.

Umm, you call your responses thus far a part of a “coherent dialogue”? Didn’t ever seem like much of a dialogue to me.

For some reason, l Zilcho chooses this moment to start talking about conspiracies, which had not previosuly [sic.] been mentioned.

Clearly you brought up the Ierne thing, the only “conspiracy” mentioned was the one Ierne dreamt up, and it is very much involved in the subject matter that you yourself have brought into this scrap.
And ignoratio elenchi is failing to keep to the point of the argument, which, clearly, you have been doing all along.

I think what you might need to get through, in this instance, is to yourself, Haus. Certainly if a casual mistake in using "diffuse" instead of "defuse" is something that causes you to lose the will to live, then you really need to take some time to sort through some things, eh?

But, I suppose that none of this is getting through to you, is it?
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:18 / 26.05.03
More that you *always* make the same mistake, and you always do it while talking about precisely this subject, as indeed do your non-conspirators. It's uncanny...and the conspiracy was not mentioned. I merely mentioned the fiasco. You appear to have taken that as a cue to retread the same old ground, rather than possibly learning from it.

We get it. You read and write in a highly idiosyncratic way. This is a beautiful thing, and to be celebrated, but is at times unhealpful.

Now, some might suggest that "what part of 'litherland" was ad hominem to begin with, before we even consider the "snotty" issue. But anyway. What, at this point, are you trying to get out of this, Zilcho? I am familiar with your ability to insult, cajole, obsess and complain, although I had hoped not to encounter it again. We didn't *really* need the road test. I have asked you if you would like references made to you without your approval deleted, and am waiting for your reply. Did you listen to that?

Oh, and the sics. Very cute. In the same spirit of cuteness:


Well your (While you're) giving us all lessons in Latin,


El Zilcho loses it completely at the suggestion that his actions can be criticised [sic.] (older students may remember that "s" is used for "z" here in UK English).”

Yes, I was excited to start the new late shift. Anna’s comment had the implicit inquiry, “why have the late shifts been going by so fast?” Your response is was indeed a gentle mocking, but clearly not as you first tried to frame it in the context of an attempt to “subvert the flag.”

Again, what’s your problem? If you can sincerely answer this, then I think you can avoid a trip to Selfawaria.


That's before we move onto grammar and in particular sentence construction and commas. You might want to abandon this line of snide.

So, what have we learned from this? To be very, very careful with our words? To validate el Zilcho at all times? That further discussion in general and in other threads is only going to lead to this sort of hair-pulling? Because that *would* be depressing...
 
 
Char Aina
12:34 / 26.05.03
how about trying to play along with each others jokes, rather than trying to crush the others humour to prove your own might?


just a thought.

go back to ignoring me.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
12:36 / 26.05.03
toksik is wise....
 
 
Char Aina
12:37 / 26.05.03
also, a wee bit of information about me...

i also type the wrong thing regularly, and not due to incompetence of thought.

for some reason my mind lumps momonyms together and throws them out in place of each other.

see your, their, etc.

even occasionally sea/see, whcih i find particularly unsettling. im not thick, but my fingers are?
 
 
Char Aina
12:43 / 26.05.03
or even homonyms.


jesus.
 
 
The Return Of Rothkoid
13:01 / 26.05.03
Damn. And here was I about to start up a "Late Shift 16: Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Curtain".

It's a bank holiday there today, isn't it? Assuming "there" = UK.
 
 
—| x |—
13:09 / 26.05.03
Sure toksik has said something wise, but I am not willing to let you simply bully me Haus. And you are being a bully.

Perhaps the mistake you perceive is your own, and it is you who continues to make it? Someone in another thread described you like a perfect mirror; however, in this case, you are only reflecting your own images.

Again, no the conspiracy was not mentioned by you; however, the “Ierne fiasco” was. Now, part of the Ierne fiasco was her obsessive fear that there was a conspiracy against her; thus, since you brought it up, it seems quite clear that you are the one who wants to “retread old ground.” Like I said before, there’s only crappy reruns on, and I’m not so interested in viewing them, and yet, here we are—sitting in front of the idiot box.

You read and write in a highly idiosyncratic way. This is a beautiful thing, and to be celebrated, but is at times unhealpful [sic.].

Thank-you. In fact, if I recall, you paid my writing a very high compliment in that “come back thread” of Ierne’s.

Now, some might suggest that ‘what part of litherland’ was ad hominem to begin with, before we even consider the ‘snotty’ issue.

Yes, I tend to agree, but isn’t the post of mine that you are referring to in response to your already admittedly “mocking” but mild ad hominem initial comment? And, are you unable to have a sense of humour about my gentle ribbing back at you? Again, it seems to be that you are the one who immediately brought out the big guns and went ballistic by attacking me via your comment about self esteem. To get back to toksik’s remark, while your initial post and my initial response were of light humour, I don’t think you’ll find too many people who would say that negative comments about another person’s self esteem are in good humour.

But anyway. What, at this point, are you trying to get out of this, Zilcho?

I believe I’ve answered that above.

As for the rest of your post, it’s simply more drivel that makes you look even worse than you already do. You started in with the shallow criticism about linguistic mistakes, I was merely trying to follow your lead. And likewise, I too am familiar with your “ability to insult, cajole, obsess and complain.” You aren’t any different Haus, and that’s why some people love you, others hate you, and some—like myself—both love and hate you.

And again you close your post with a barrage of questions that reflects your own brand of shit stirring, and aren’t worth answering, because they are only intended to provoke conflict, and not resolve it. This is why I didn’t answer your other inane question.

Also, in closing, I wonder, are you a psychiatrist or psychologist? No? Then let’s do without all the pseudo-diagnosis’ regarding “esteem issues,” “obsession,” and the like. ‘Cause really, who are you to be pontificating about other’s difficulties when it seems you are unable to face your own?
 
 
Lurid Archive
13:17 / 26.05.03
Now, part of the Ierne fiasco was her obsessive fear that there was a conspiracy against her; thus, since you brought it up, it seems quite clear that you are the one who wants to “retread old ground.

For the sake of a bit of peace, I think it would be best if we let this lie. However, el Z, you will not help matters by criticising an absent poster in a way that might not be universally accepted. You may even undermine your own earlier declaration of regret.
 
 
ONLY NICE THINGS
13:23 / 26.05.03
So, to recap:

I say you are overreacting. You say I am overreacting.

I mention obsession. You mention obsession.

I say that you have an ability to insult, cajole, obsess and complain. You say that I have an ability to ability to insult, cajole, obsess and complain.

I refuse to address your questions. You refuse to address my questions.

You make speculations about my personality and motivations. I make speculations about your character and personality.

The mirror thing seems reasonably accurate, really. So, I suppose I should probably accuse you of being a bully, to continue the process. You big bully.

Corrigenda:

Sure toksik has said something wise, but I am not willing to let you simply bully me, Haus. And you are being a bully.

Perhaps the mistake you perceive is your own, and it is you who continuescontinue to make it? Someone in another thread described you as like a perfect mirror; however, in this case you are only reflecting your own images.

Again, no, the conspiracy was not mentioned by you; however, the “Ierne fiasco” was. Now, part of the Ierne fiasco was her obsessive fear that there was a conspiracy against her; thus, since you brought it up, it seems quite clear that you are the one who wants to “retread old ground.” by returning to it in detail and denying a series of accusations that had not been made? Yeah. For sure. Like I said before, there’s there are only crappy reruns on, and I’m not so interested in viewing them, and yet here we are, sitting in from tof front of the idiot box.

“You read and write in a highly idiosyncratic way. This is a beautiful thing, and to be celebrated, but is at times unhealpful [sic.].”

Thank-you. In fact, if I recall, you paid my writing a very high compliment in that “come back thread” of Ierne’s.

“Now, some might suggest that ‘what part of litherland’ was ad hominem to begin with, before we even consider the ‘snotty’ issue.”

Again, it seems to be that you are the one who immediately brought out the big guns and went ballistic by attacking me via your comment about self esteem. To get back to toksik’s remark, while your initial post and my initial response were of light humour, I don’t think you’ll find too many people who would say that negative comments about another person’s self-esteem are in good humour. Seriously, dude, get over it. Not a correction, just a hint.

“But anyway. What, at this point, are you trying to get out of this, Zilcho?”

I believe I’ve answered that above. Um. Nope

As for the rest of your post, it’s simply more drivel that makes you look even worse than you already do. You started in with the shallow criticism about linguistic mistakes, I was merely trying to follow your lead. And likewise, I too am familiar with your “ability to insult, cajole, obsess and complain.” You aren’t any different, Haus, and that’s why some people love you, others hate you, and some—like myself—both love and hate you.

And again you close your post with a barrage of questions that reflects your own brand of shit-stirring, and aren’t worth answering, because they are only intended to provoke conflict, and not resolve it again, wrong. I asked you what you wanted, you failed to answer. This is why I didn’t answer your other inane question.Yes, dear.

Also, in closing, I wonder, are you a psychiatrist or psychologist? No? Then let’s do without all the pseudo-diagnosis’ apostrophe? You got me. No idea why regarding “esteem issues”, “obsession,” like the obsession of mine you mentioned above? OK.... and the like. ‘Cause really, who are you to be pontificating about other’s difficulties when it seems you are unable to face your own?
 
 
Bill Posters
13:26 / 26.05.03
Haus, you are un-be-fucking-lieveable.
 
  

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