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Jenny Everywhere - Updates

 
  

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moriarty
14:50 / 23.03.03
Um, what they said.

I can see this Jenny Everywhere thing becoming like a parlour game. A few years down the road, maybe someone will draw her without the goggles (or the scarf, or the hair) and that will be the standard which many future installments base their character on.

Basically, it looks like everyone leaves out one or two things about her (like her weight, because she originally had some weight to her), which is absolutely fine. Just so long as it doesn't get to a point where you can't recognize her at all.

Believe it or not, I'm planning a story where she may not be wearing her goggles or her scarf.
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
21:38 / 24.03.03
Heretic.
 
 
Sax
13:34 / 09.04.03
Okay. By way of something of a challenge for would-be comics creators like ourselves who should perhaps be putting energies into brand-new characters such as Jenny Everywhere rather than getting stiffies about the possibilities of writing for Marvel, respected professional comics sex god Cameron Stewart has said that if the Shifter group wants to get its arse into gear and perhaps think about producing and financing a proper comic made out of paper and staples and stuff and try to flog it, he will do us a cover. For free.

What do we think? And use this spot to update about your Shifter projects - I'm behind schedule with my script for Kit Cat Club but I'm catching up.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
13:49 / 09.04.03
With this exciting new development, I think I'd really like to contribute a brief piece, maybe modifying my Longshot & The X-Babies pitch into a Shifter story with Li'l versions of public domain characters, a la Jasper Fforde. I'm liking this. I am liking this.
 
 
Tamayyurt
14:02 / 09.04.03
Not to sound like an asshole but I don't like the idea. I do like Cameron's art especially his girls but I don't think it's fair for the artists who've been on this project from the beginning. I'd much prefer to see a cover my moriarty, nelson evergreen, or MC lentil. They're the ones that've been busting their asses to see this project get off the ground and one of their covers (the best one among the three) should be showcased. I mean, it's not like Cameron's name power is going to boost sales or whatever and I think our artist deserve the cover.

Now, I'm probably alone is this and if it's cool with everyone it's cool with me, but... I'm just saying.
 
 
CameronStewart
14:14 / 09.04.03
Hey man, I'm not offering to do it out of vanity, or to grandstand, or to trivialise the efforts of everyone who's already done a story. I'm offerng to do it because I think it's a good character, and a worthwhile pursuit for everyone here, instead of doing junky Marvel revamps. I've wanted to do a story featuring Jenny for a while but I doubt I'll have the time. A cover is something that I can do reasonably quickly.

While I don't think people are necessarily going to rush out and buy any book that has a cover by me, like they would if it was Alex Ross or Adam Hughes, I certainly don't think it would hurt. The people who run the comics shop near me said they wouldn't have ordered the Stripperella book if I wasn't doing the cover, and I'm sure that having any kind of "name" (even if it's a B-list name like mine) associated with the book is better than no name at all.

It's an offer I made because I'd like to see it happen. I don't work for free, but I'm willing to make the exception.
 
 
Sax
14:27 / 09.04.03
Impulsivelad, I take your point. This is, after all Moriarty's baby and he'll have right of veto on anything. But I think if we are deciding we want to do a print product and we are going to try to sell it through comics outlets we have to be professional about it. Everyone has done sterling work so far on the Shifter, and we're a hell of a long way from having enough stuff to fill a proper comic. But if we decide that's the road we do go down, and we want to make a go of it, I think Cameron's offer should be taken at face value and not seen as a diss to anyone who's already worked on Jenny stories. Hell, Cameron's cover might not even be the best one, but from a business point of view (and if we decide we're all going to put money into this and produce a professional product then, yes, we're going to have to stop being fucking hippies and think of this in business terms) that having a "name" artist for the cover is going to get it more press and more attention.

Of course, there's more chance of this not happening than there is of it getting off the ground.

1,000,000 Words, anyone?
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:27 / 09.04.03
I have to say, impulsivelad, I think you're going to be in the minority here. It's not like Cameron's treading on anyone's toes here...
 
 
CameronStewart
14:46 / 09.04.03
>>>Of course, there's more chance of this not happening than there is of it getting off the ground<<<

Put it this way - there's likely far more chance of this happening, as long as everyone gets fucking serious about it and DOES it, than there ever is of anyone here getting an Epic deal.

All it takes is the will to produce, guys. Get your stories done, set up a paypal account or something so you all can put up the funds for printing (and if there are enough contributors it shouldn't cost anyone too much), and get it done. If there are over 100 pages you can skip the staples, do a nice bound book, and get it into bookshops.

If this DOESN'T happen, if everyone hums and haws and comes up with lame excuses as to why they haven't done their story yet - then you have absolutely no right at all to ever complain about wanting to work in comics. It's fuck or walk time.
 
 
Tamayyurt
14:51 / 09.04.03
Yeah, I knew I was going to be in the minority the second I clicked on Post Reply. everything you guys are saying makes perfect sense... I guess I got a bit defensive, sorry.

And about not having enough stories to fill a comic. I've actually written a bunch of 8 page Jenny Everywhere stories and most of them are, not fantastic, but quite good. The lack of artists on this project is extremely limiting, though.

So, I guess what I should've said was, welcome aboard, Cameron
 
 
CameronStewart
15:02 / 09.04.03
I guess that's why you're known as Impulsivelad.

 
 
grant
15:13 / 09.04.03
How many pages do we already have done? I mean, with art and words and already readable by those in the know.

24? 32?

How many do we need?
 
 
CameronStewart
15:17 / 09.04.03
Here you go:



Just whipped this up a few minutes ago as a warm-up. Unlikely to be the image I do end up using, but it's the first time I've drawn Jenny.

Just so you know that I'M ready to put up the goods. Are you?
 
 
moriarty
15:35 / 09.04.03
Go to school for a few hours and all Hell breaks loose. I probably wouldn't have even noticed these latest developments until later tonight if Perse hadn't sent me a message asking what I think in a way that suggested that I knew something about this.

First up, Cameron, thank you for the offer. We all know you are an insanely busy and overworked professional, so it is great that you consider the Jenny thing to be worthy of your time. To be honest, I had considered asking you if you would be interested in contributing, but I thought I would wait until we actually had the whole thing up and running to show that we are serious.

I would like to apologize for not having my share of the work done yet. My reason for being late, and also for not posting as much anymore, is because I am drawing literally hundreds of pages of artwork a week for class. I keep rubbing my arm in a way that makes people think I am a heroin addict. The good news is that I will most likely be staying in Canada for the summer, working a job during the day and putting all that artistic energy into other works, mainly Jenny. Also, I'm not sure if I've mentioned this already, but Perse will be helping me with the site.

Personally, I think it's best if we have a good backlog of stuff before we move into printing it up. That means at least 3 issues of at least 32 pages each, or one big trade, or both. We could publish it as a 4 issue series, which, if successful, could spin off into subsequent regular or mini-series. I was hoping that every issue would have no more than one story by the same creator, though they could work on consecutive issues. Also, if you have a hankering to do longer work, then by all means do so, but only after you have shown the ability to do a complete short story. So, if Flyboy and Nelson wanted to take up, I don't know, an entire issue (hint hint), then I don't see a problem with that.

Off the top of my head, I'd say if we were to have deadlines we could make it that we would have a minimum of 2 issues worth of material (approx. 64 pages) and the rough site up by the end of summer. By the end of the year 2003, the site fully operational with a new comic online every month for the year 2004, plus a promotional campaign leading up to the launch date for the site and a third issue in the can. In the beginning of 2004 we start making inroads to have the actual comic published and solicited, with possible convention appearances in the summer.

This means that approximately one year from right now we will have one issue published, with three more written and drawn and ready to go.

This gives us time to make the comics, while giving us something to plan and look forward to. Everyone involved so far has been from the site, but that does not mean that you can't look elsewhere, especially if we are hard up for artists. The launch of the site, and the promotions previous to the actual publication, will hopefully result in people outside of Barbelith contributing. For instance, we will have a message board set up to match people together and answer any questions.

Sorry, that's a lot to go through. Yes, I started this, and yes, it looks like I'll be editor-in-chief and have the final say on things. However, the above, and anything else I say, is not set in stone. If you think anything I have suggested needs retooling, then by all means, I am open to all ideas.

Lastly, I don't know if I'll be contributing a cover. I'm shy. I do think Nelson's brilliant Jenny headshot should be a cover, maybe to an all-Flyboy/Evergreen "novel-length" issue (hint, hint). Can you imagine that lone headshot of Jenny staring out of the comic shelves?

And this will not die like previous projects. At the very least, the very least, we have enough stories to make a really cool photocopied zine that I would pass out to all the stores and all my friends. The Canadian version of Factsheet 5 is having an all-comics issue, and I seriously considered submitting what we have so far. But slow and steady wins the race.
 
 
grant
15:58 / 09.04.03
Y'know, Cameron, you're pretty good. You ever think about getting a job as an artist?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
16:01 / 09.04.03
Actually, after reading Moriarity's post, I think I'm going to focus on two page Milk N Cheese style gag strips, with Jenny Everywhere appearing, well, everywhere and anywhere. How's that sound, Mo?
 
 
CameronStewart
16:08 / 09.04.03
I really think, Moriarty, that the best way to go with this is to do a single trade paperback book, rather than a couple of issues. That's the way I'm going with my stuff. The cost of a 100+ page book would be daunting for a single person, but with a big group it'll be split between enough people to make it inexpensive for everyone. Plus you can get it into bookshops.

You can do followups, of course, and I think a big hook for potential buyers is that ANYONE is free to do a Shifter story and submit it. Which you can then collect into a second volume. And third...
 
 
Tamayyurt
16:16 / 09.04.03
Brilliant! So, 100 pages before 2004 and the cost of publishing will be shared by the collective. I can so see this at Borders, Barns&Noble, Virgin.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
16:49 / 09.04.03
Definitely do it big. I see it as a Monkeysuit style book.

I've been doing some sketching and I'm thinking about actually rocking some Li'l Jenny Everywhere short stories, the first one tentatively titled "The New Girl" with her shifting from 1st grade to 1st grade until she finds one she likes.

I'll post some sketches tonight.
 
 
Sax
19:47 / 09.04.03
All right! Nothing like a little row in the comics forum to kick things off.
 
 
rizla mission
20:27 / 09.04.03
ooh, how exciting. i might make an effort to get off my arse and try and make something of one of my botched stories.

(actually i was drawing a guest appearence by Jenny Everywhere for my own idiosyncratic, rambling comic yesterday - what would you guys say to a submission in which the shifter wasn't the central character, and which didn't make a great deal of sense?)
 
 
Optimistic
21:17 / 09.04.03
I would like to offer my services as an artist.

Never said that before...

Anyway, no scanner here but I'll try to find somewhere so I can post a sketch or two tomorrow.

And I really can draw, I promise, so if anyone has a story lying around I would love to be the man to illustrate it.
 
 
Nelson Evergreen
22:23 / 09.04.03
'You good and ready to plough through several lifetimes' worth of jennyscript, Optimistic?

If we were to go down the tpb route, how about starting things off with a precursory 22 pager, featuring introductory material that wouldn't necessarily appear in the book? It could act as an all-in-one taster and promotional showpiece, like a killer single preceding an album that doesn't contain it, and be all the more cool and slinky because of that.

Delighted to see Cameron on board. I'd always envisaged celeb artists doing Shifter covers and posters once the whole thing had escalated into an international cause celebre, but this is a welcome early kick up the collective backside.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
23:15 / 09.04.03


Young Jennifer Everywhere
In
"School In Summertime"

Coming Soon
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
23:17 / 09.04.03
 
 
Tamayyurt
23:18 / 09.04.03
Awe, that's cute!
 
 
moriarty
23:20 / 09.04.03
Bastard. We're always thinking of the same things at the same time.

I had always envisioned that if I were to ever create or help create a comic that one of the cool things to do would be to create an original story as a promotional teaser. I hate when previews are just a few random sample pages, usually without any closure.

Please, PLEASE keep in mind that the dimensions of your page MUST be width = 2/3 height (or height = 1 1/2 width). This is standard comic book page dimensions. The industry standard is 10 inch width x 15 height, though you can go smaller or larger, so long as you stay in the same proportions! I cannot emphasize this enough. Do not just take an 8 1/2 by 11 sheet of paper (A4?) and have the borders run right along the edge of the paper. If you screw this up, I can guarantee you will not make it into the printed version!

And don't forget to check your legibility. Make your lettering is clear and not too cramped (unless that's what you're going for). Make a sample page, take it to a photocopier and shrink it down to the size of an average comic. Is it legible?


Whew.

OK, a few more stupid things. The reason I was holding back on the original tpb proposal was because I understand the comic book market much more than I do the book market. That said, I'm all for a full-scale tpb thing. Definitely. If it goes well maybe we can make it a yearly event, though there's no reason to get that far ahead of ourselves.

Though I will have all sorts of time this summer, next year is going to be even busier for me schoolwise. So I'll be doing as much as I can before Fall, but if it's going to be up to me to see this thing printed, it probably won't be until next Summer. I'll do some research on the tpb thing, but Cameron, if you're working on something similar I might come pestering you with questions eventually.

When I originally suggested the Jenny thing, it was for a bit of fun. Hopefully it still is, to an extent. I had hopes of starting a website with the stories and making a photocopied zine. Someone misunderstood me and thought that I meant a professionally printed comic. See, for me comics are just a hobby. I love making mini-comics for fun, and don't really have any ambition to go beyond that.

My idea of what Jenny's about is still relatively the same. When we were originally discussing "open-source" characters, I took a look at some of the other stabs at the idea. Most of them pretended at being free and clear while still having all sorts of strings attached to them. Most of these attempts petered out because there were so many hoops you had to jump through that it defeated the purpose, and nobody wanted to get involved.

My main goal (and obviously this is not necessarily the goal of other individuals or the collective as a whole) was and is visibility, accessibility and fun. To get some really cool stories out to as many people as possible and invite them to join in the party. Money doesn't really enter into this other than to keep the party going. I will not be making a cent off of this and I do not expect to recoup any money I invested personally. If Jenny does turn a nice profit (unlikely, but you never know), investors will obviously be repaid if desired. However, expect the majority of funds to go back into the bank to keep this thing going. In fact, it's my hope that because we're doing this without salries or overhead that we will be able to keep the actual price of the book at a decent level, or at the very least have the preview be absolutely free (even if it means just making photocopies). Imagine taking part in Free Comics Day!

I think it's always a good idea to plan ahead in the event that a party should break up. A few things we should decide upon.

If you invest in the project then decide to back out after the book is printed, you will not get your money back until and unless other investors get theirs. I'm really cool about people deciding that this isn't for them, all the way up to and including deserters starting their own Shifter publication (though we'll have to look into trademark issues, since I don't think the same title can be used as it will create consumer confusion). I realize that nobody here would ask for their money back immediately, but I thought I would spell it out just in case. I can ensure you that I am one of the most easy-going guys that you will likely to never meet, and if someone decides to leave there will be no hard feelings on my part.

Related to this is the possibility that someone will want to take their story with them if they leave. If we do sell out of copies (Big if) and decide to reprint, it would be nice if we had made sure where we stand on the publication rights. Would everyone be cool with the notion that once your story is printed, the collective has the right to reprint it in that particular book only? Under no circumstances will ownership of the title belong to the collective, though it would be nice to have perpetual reprint rights so as not to have a big gaping hole in subsequent editions. You are, of course, free to publish or have published any of your stories concurrentlyin other venues, whether you're still with the collective or not.

I know this all seems like we're putting the cart before the horse, but I've been involved in a great many collaborative efforts that have fizzled out, and it's always been far easier to sort things out when the ground rules have been set up from the start.

Though I think these are things worth discussing, and if you disagree feel free to mix it up, let's not forget that we have some fucking comics to create.

TOAST!
 
 
lentil
23:28 / 09.04.03
Wow. just got back from the pub so excuse me for any incoherence. Great to see this thread blowing up.

This project will not die. It has already been birthed thrice and its death would mean the brutal murder of sweet six-page babies.

Comics pro-lifers in da house!

Thanks for your offer Cameron, love to see you providing a cover. I don't see this as a dis/patronising or whatever - why shouldn't cam think Jenny is a cool character?

Had more to add but I can't remember what was posted in the rest of the thread now. Um, for one thing I feel enervated by this burst of activity. Think Cameron said something above about not-getting-off-arseness being the only viable route to failure for this project and agree wholeheartedly. I ain't submitting shit to epic, I got my mini and this and that's good for me!

Nelson - from where I'm standing you are a celebrity artist

Optimistic - happy to help w/ any scanning needs if convenient. I'm in London.
 
 
moriarty
23:28 / 09.04.03
Shit. Forgot.

Cameron - That rocks. Love her hair. However, give us kids the slack. You have plenty of experience with drawing cool kids on their motor scooters.

Benjamin - Cute. One of my dreams was that someone would attempt one page gags. That would be rad.

Oh, yeah. What I said before about nobody contirbuting twice to an issue. If we're doing the tpb thing, I think we should have it so no team can do more than one story, and that includes a team of one. That way we can mix it up a little and not have any one team or individual dominate the book. Feel free to disagree. I know you want to.
 
 
moriarty
23:31 / 09.04.03
However, give us kids the slack.

Hahahaha.
 
 
Tamayyurt
23:31 / 09.04.03
I hope you all realize this all this energy is thanks to Marvel's Epic.

And moriarty, all that sounds fair and reasonable.
 
 
lentil
00:12 / 10.04.03
moriarty's post occurred while I was writing mine; had I posted a few moments later I would deifinitely have included a vague and incoherent but heartfelt YES! to pretty much everything there, particularly the part about this being fun.

I am generally awed by the amount of joined-up thinking displayed in that large post but probably only say that to come across as a lovable buffoon.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
00:24 / 10.04.03
I'm down, Mo. I'm all over it.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
03:39 / 10.04.03
Will we need contracts? What's to stop one of us from demanding money and going to court? And is it positively going to be a 100 plus page book available at bookstores? I mean, is that the plan right now? Will it be in color? And is Moriarty handling the logistics? Will materials be mailed to him, or is there someone more responsible? Moriarty, would it help if someone else handled certain things. Perhaps one of the advantages we'd have would be that Cameron is trying to do the same thing with his book, but probably a few steps ahead of us. So emails between Cam and Mor would probably be very helpful.
 
 
moriarty
04:30 / 10.04.03
I'm in the process of creating a pretty damn huge FAQ for everyone to pore over. I am reading every post made in both the major Jenny threads in creating this FAQ. Some of your questions have already been answered, Jack, though they've been buried for awhile, so I can't blame you for asking.

Will we need contracts? What's to stop one of us from demanding money and going to court?

I imagine contracts will be drawn up. Off the top of my head I'd say that they will specify that at the very least the creators give one time use publication rights to the collective. We have to decide what is to be done for reprints, whether it will be indefinite, a certain number of reprints, or over a certain period of time, like say 10 years. The creators will get no pay. None. Unless you have to be paid something by law, in which case you will get a dollar. The Jenny Everywhere Collective is a non-profit organization at this point. The creators get to keep complete ownership of their story, and can have it published or self-published anywhere else, both during and/or after the terms of the agreement. If their secondary publisher insists on having exclusive rights to the story, then we can discuss something. I would hate to keep someone from making some cash.

This can, of course, be debated. As you will see, we have nothing finalized yet. If anything makes anyone uncomfortable, I'd be more than happy to discuss it.

And is it positively going to be a 100 plus page book available at bookstores? I mean, is that the plan right now?

The plan right now? Yes. The final plan? No. This is all snowballing fairly quickly. I imagine many of these points will be debated until we come to a reasonable conclusion, and it may take a while. That's what this thread is for.

Will it be in color?

No, not unless someone is ponying up mad cash.

And is Moriarty handling the logistics? Will materials be mailed to him, or is there someone more responsible?

Great questions. As it stands now, it looks like I am running the show. I am more than happy to do so and am excited by the prospect of learning how to publish a book. However, as I have stated already, I will not allow this project to interfere with my schoolwork. Therefore I will only be able to work full-time on this project during this and next summer. If someone is willing and able to take on the duties, has more experince or can do it more competently than me, I will step down as project co-ordinator. If I keep my position, I will determine during my studies on the printing process whether I will need originals or can make due with copies.

Moriarty, would it help if someone else handled certain things. Perhaps one of the advantages we'd have would be that Cameron is trying to do the same thing with his book, but probably a few steps ahead of us. So emails between Cam and Mor would probably be very helpful.

I have already enlisted the help of a few people with certain areas of expertise. In the FAQ I make mention of setting up a kind of advisory board so that my decisions are tempered by other opinions. I believe that past posts have shown that I am open to any and all suggestions made by the people involved. At least it's worked so far. I will never, ever hesitate to ask for help if I have a problem. This is not all about me, and I will not allow any pride or shortcomings I may have to get in the way of this project. While I'm sure I will be asking Cameron a few questions about his experiences, I do not want to monopolize his time. I know many other people who have had similar experiences, in the small press, book distribution and comic industry.
 
  

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