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Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men - Will Someone Actually Die?

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The Natural Way

12:58 / 01.11.02

And seeing as the Phoenix = Horus (in his Rah Hoor Khuit, flamey-bird-of-destruction guise), then, well.....as with all good teenagers, it's out w/ the old, in w/ the new. Bye Charles.

yawn - thing's buddy

13:49 / 01.11.02

if thats the case, grant's sure wearing a dangerous fiction suit. I thought he got him out a wheelchair cos he didn't like the karmic comeback of portraying himself as a paraplegic.

The Natural Way

14:07 / 01.11.02

Oh, Charles'll be alright, even if he bites it. "Can't stop progress" as Reynard said to that old fart Jack.

Matthew Fluxington

14:26 / 01.11.02

Do we just assume that Charles is his fictionsuit in NXM simply because he's a bald guy?

Seems to me, it's Jean who's more like his fictionsuit this time around.

The Natural Way

14:41 / 01.11.02

Well....that was my first instinct too, Flux, but Charles does spout RAWisms and RAW is one of Grant's favourite thinkers/authors.

yawn - thing's buddy

14:45 / 01.11.02

well, in theory, all the characters, are his function suites. But you know wot I mean.

And i think the bald guy thing has some relevance.

From within the plot:

'Xavier takes xmen in new direction'

From within the pages of fandom

'Morrison takes xmen in new direction'

That said, if we play with the horus connection, then yes, I agree, Xaviers for the chop.

18:14 / 01.11.02

Kind of interesting that the series is being written by one of the dinosaurs considering the themes Morrison keeps hammering, huh? Or does he consider himself one of "the kids?"

19:39 / 01.11.02

And what themes whould "the kids" hammer on?

Matthew Fluxington

19:49 / 01.11.02

Perhaps Xavier's RAW-isms aren't so much there to voice Grant's views, but more to make Xavier more like Robert Anton Wilson.

19:50 / 01.11.02

Regarding the thread title: Of course no one will actually die—it's only a comic, after all.

20:20 / 01.11.02

From Above: "Geez. That's great. And it makes sense. Jean has the ability to do what Emma's doing w/r/t helping Scott through his shit but she hasn't. She said she'd be there for him, but where is she?"

At the end of NXM 131, when Scott and Emma are in her mind and Emma, dressed in the Phoenix costume, says how she's power and life and all that but can't help playing with fire, I got the impression that this was actually Jean speaking through Emma , and that Scott's reply, "Sure Jean, why not?" suggests he knows this too. No one else I've spoken to seems to agree with me on this, but that's just what I came away with (and thought the implications - particularly for Jean - were more intriguing than a simple Scott/Emma affair.

As for the real point of this thread: Ethan V's early comment about the Beast toying with being a gay mutant does fill me with concern for Hank's safety in the book. This would suck; more has been done with Hank in this series than the past 39 years combined. Other than that: Beak. that kiss from the (new) Angel was the kiss of deaht, nowhere to go but the grave, poor guy.

Question: how do I bold people's posted comments in this window?

00:00 / 02.11.02

"Thank you"

Regrettable Juvenilia

06:48 / 02.11.02

Regarding the thread title: Of course no one will actually die—it's only a comic, after all.

Jeez, Jack, thanks for pointing that out. Do you want to go and explain the idea of fiction by butting in to every relevant thread in the Film and Books forums as well?

Honestly, some fucking people...

10:00 / 02.11.02

Problem with a corporate owned fiction like X-Blah: nobody ever has to die forever. So does it really matter anyway?

Matthew Fluxington

11:46 / 02.11.02

Yes, Templar. We've already gone over this. IN THIS THREAD.

So again, nice and slowly:

In the context of Grant Morrison's self contained NXM run, yes, this is going to be a meaningful thing, and it doesn't really matter one way or another if a future writer undoes whatever Grant writes in his X-Men series, just as it doesn't really matter too much what Scott Lobdell wrote in the context of Grant's X-Men.

11:48 / 02.11.02

SMACKDOWN!

The Tower Always Falls

17:21 / 02.11.02

You know, I don't think anyone at any other one of those fanboy message boards has picked up on this little bit of foreshadowing.

Would it be trollish or Coyote-ish of me to post these ideas on some of the more fanboy websites just to see them sputter?

Then again, I have a feeling my annoyance would rapidly outweigh my amusement I wager...

(And I think killing off Xavier would be a brilliant move..)

Matthew Fluxington

19:23 / 02.11.02

I think it would be better for the people who don't know/don't see it coming to get a good shock out of it.

14:01 / 03.11.02

Would it be trollish or Coyote-ish of me to post these ideas on some of the more fanboy websites just to see them sputter?

Then again, I have a feeling my annoyance would rapidly outweigh my amusement I wager...

These people are brilliant! They speak like they're in a comic! Sometimes!

It's an easy thing to not get annoyed - especially by something so trivial as fanboy-uproar.

The Natural Way

07:54 / 04.11.02

Gerg: Emma and Scott are roleplaying. That line you quote? Emma's analysing and breaking down Jean's personality.... Jean would never talk about herself like that - it's a deconstruction (or an exageration) of Scott's wife's character/behaviour, precision engineered to get him hot/all cathartic. Sex thereapy at its best.

Herman Frankl BC.

03:13 / 13.11.02

Jean an Logan..... what do you think about that! .. its not new but.

By the other hand Scott and Emma you know... shes so white and lonely.

Matthew Fluxington

19:31 / 05.12.02

I'm starting to rethink this, and I'm starting to think that perhaps what will happen is that Jean will die and her secondary mutation will kick in, and she will be reborn fully merged with the Phoenix. After all, Grant did mention way back that he was going to do a story about what would happen if Jean actually *was* a Goddess...

"See me for what I am, OK?"

19:35 / 05.12.02

I did think Charles, but I'm leaning more towards Hank now. Think of it this way:

Mutants, protecting a world that hates and fears them, blah blah bliddy blah. Hank has survived this for countless aeons (okay, a few years...), but is killed within a few months of declaring his (fake) homosexuality. Killed by bigotry, but not the bigotry that has been the traditional core one in X-Men...oh, and isn't Grant moving AWAY from X-Men tradition...?

Also, in the second "Are these words from the future" segment, Xavier was (if I recall correctly, I don't have the issue to hand) surrounded by ruins, corpses in X-Corporation uniforms and facing Phoenix...I think this might happen in actuality (hence the introduction of Liefield characters for X-Corp who can die and only fanboys will care) and therefore Xavier must live (cue dramatic music).

A

00:52 / 06.12.02

As someone already mentioned, there's Ultimate X-Men, now, so I would think that anyone is potentially fair game to be killed off, never to return. They'll still be alive and kicking in the Ultimate "universe".

My money's on Xavier. The X-Men used to be about the conflict between Xavier and Magneto's visions for mutankind, but Magneto's death ditched that dynamic. Xavier's death wold be the final nail in the coffin for the "old-style" X-Men.

Also, the focus on mutant culture becoming more fluid and chaotic could logically culminate with the mutants lsing their authority figure.

The Natural Way

07:44 / 06.12.02

Yeah, Ad, I'd been thinking along those lines and it's a really convincing argument, but so are loads of them.....

10:59 / 06.12.02

The X-Men used to be about the conflict between Xavier and Magneto's visions for mutankind, but Magneto's death ditched that dynamic.

But Magneto's coming back in Uncanny apparently...

The Natural Way

11:07 / 06.12.02

Oh, he's NOT. Jesus.

13:14 / 06.12.02

From Rich Johnston's column this week:

"Gutterati Gonzo also told me that Grant Morrison's rumoured exit from "New X-Men" is looking more and more likely right now after issue 150. Sales have fallen back to the pre-revamp days....With his Weapon X retcon already being ignored by the "Weapon X" book, "Uncanny X-Men" bringing back Magneto who Morrison went to lengths to ensure was dead, lack of promotion compared to other titles, Quitely's Wolverine redesign being ditched for the Ultimate design enforced across all lines, more editorial suggestions being insisted upon, such as the Genosha/9-11 issue, the sledgehammer mention that Beast wasn't gay and that he was just joking (that seemed at odds with the artistic portrayals of the characters' body language) and more..."

(Italics mine)

13:20 / 06.12.02

How exactly are they bringing back Magneto in UNCANNY? And I wonder if this kind of editorial interference annoys Grant? Why the need to bring him back so early? Jeez, man, taking Mags out of the X-Books for the forseeable future was one of Grant's best ideas.....

The Natural Way

13:32 / 06.12.02

More to the point: that list! Urrgh! Is this stuff confirmed? And Quitely's hairy-beasty Wolvie was the best Wolvie in the world ever! Arrgh!

Matthew Fluxington

13:48 / 06.12.02

Well, when you're a talentless hack like Chuck Austen, sometimes the best you can do is bring back villains from the dead and piss all over your infinitely more talented colleague's work. Same goes for Frank Tieri, who's actually even LESS talented than Austen, who writes that godawful Weapon X comic.

14:21 / 06.12.02

I'm not sure the Weapon XII thing is a retcon, considering we've seen other Weapon X subjects in the past such as Lady Deathstrike. We don't really know that Fantomex isn't feeding the X-Men a line about the numbering, after all. No big deal contradicting that.

Magneto - yeah, he should stay dead. But then Grant knew this would happen by not showing the body, so I don't really have much sympathy for him there.

On the other hand, if I was forced to use the Nu Logan look, I'd quit writing the damned thing, too.

14:32 / 06.12.02

It's amazing to me that they would make such a cock-stupid decision as to make the Ultimate version the One True Logan - expecially given that they have the second film coming out shortly, exposing the rest of the world to the X-Men again, and Quitely's design is the nearest to Mr. Jackman...

The Natural Way

14:43 / 06.12.02

And why do I get the feeling the sales figures would be higher if the book had some kind of consistent art team (and no Kordey. Ever).

Imaginary Mongoose Solutions

15:14 / 06.12.02

"I'm not sure the Weapon XII thing is a retcon, considering we've seen other Weapon X subjects in the past such as Lady Deathstrike."

Lady Deathstrike wasn't ever part of Weapon X. Her father designed the adamantium bonding process that Weapon X then stole (as a side note, it was used on the Daredevil villan Bullseye as well). She went off to kill the people who had "stolen her father's legacy". For some reason she thinks whacking Logan will do this. Her cybernetics and such are NOT the result of Weapon X, but the makings of Spiral, a late 80's/early 90's x-men villan.

While the Weapon Plus programme is a retcon, it's a brillant retcon. It lnks Wolverine (and the other Weapon X types) all the way back to Captain America.

"These are the details to the entire Weapon Plus program, dating back to World War II."

You tell me that Steve Rodgers wasn't Weapon One or Zero.

And the existence of Weapon Plus explains who the people in Barry Windsor Smith's Weapon X were working for, since even they didn't know.

It's fucking brillant.

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