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Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men - Will Someone Actually Die?

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Matthew Fluxington

20:49 / 28.10.02

One thing that we all seem to have neglected in our discussions about the upcoming Riot At Xavier's storyline is that Grant has heavily hinted that one of the X-Men will die in this story before it ends.

Who do you think it might be?

I think that the odds are even that it will not be Logan or Scott. I would think that killing off Henry would be silly and pointless, there's no obvious dramatic impact in killing him, and he's too popular a character among writers to be written out. I doubt Xorn gets the ax, because he's so new.

So that leaves us with the following:

Emma. Grant may be setting us up for a second helping of the U-Go Girl syndrome, killing off the character that fans seem to like the most. She is relatively expendable franchise-wise, and there are plausable reasons why she might get killed in this story. Namely, Jean murdering her.

Jean If we're doing the Phoenix story again, it only makes sense that the original ending is updated, and Jean dies. Thus setting in motion Scott's total grief-ridden nervous breakdown.

Charles Well, he's being set up for a major fall, isn't he? Maybe the kids just kill him, and then both he and Magneto will be gone...and politically, the X-Men are forced to change. This story is supposed to change the school forever - that's a pretty obvious way of doing it.

What say you?

21:17 / 28.10.02

Does death ever mean anything to X-Men? All three of the poeple you named have already "died" at least once.

Matthew Fluxington

21:36 / 28.10.02

That's not true. Emma and Charles have never died in the main continuity. When Scott "died" it was made abundantly clear that he was not really dead straight away.

Ethan Van Sciver

21:44 / 28.10.02

First, I'd like to say the following: YES, someone will die. Here are some things I'd like you to think about:

1. Jean is manifesting her Phoenix aura again, and the Shi'ar isn't happy about it.
2. Hank, who is having some fun in the media with his 'homosexuality' may not have considered how dangerous the world is for mutants and gays, let alone gay mutants, carefully enough. Murdering gay people happens often enough.
3. Magneto is dead, a martyr to his ideals. Charles is still alive, and ripe for martyrdom in my opinion. Jean has been groomed to take his place for many years. It would be nice to have bookend martyrs, and only Morrison could make this meaningful enough.
4. Scott's apparent philandering has been weighing on Jean's mind pretty heavily. Jean could be a ticking time bomb.
5. Emma's apparent affair with Scott is weighing on her mind as well.
6. Wolverine...hell, Marvel won't kill Wolverine. Forget that one.

Ethan V.

22:53 / 28.10.02

...well I didn't expect that reply...

but isn't it nice to have a "voice of authority" (of sorts) chiming in

I say it' s Beak. Do you really believe Beast took that beating with such good humor? Actually, I heard a rumor that Doc McCoy will actually use the feathered student in a nice hot soup. Is this true, Big E?

Seriously though (?), it would be interesting to see Morrison's take on the death of Xavier, but it's been done, at last count, 38 times already. Nobody would care if Cyclops died (his tombstone would probably read: "Here's to pulling the stick out of your ass in death that you could never pull out in life"). Emma? Finally, this character is cool and will play a role in future storylines (the Scott/Emma thing isn't that close to conclusion, is it?). Jean? Reborn as 100% Phoenix? Hmmmmmm...

Matthew Fluxington

23:01 / 28.10.02

Seriously. They've never killed Xavier before. They've taken him out of the picture several times over, but they've never killed him.

"Are these words from the future?" Hm.

01:11 / 29.10.02

Emma's been put in a coma (or "mentally killed") at least twice, while Charles' original body has been killed, and an early X-Men storyline "killed" him for a while. And frankly Charles has been absent for so much of the series' history that his death would hold only symbolic importance.

I can't see any death having much emotional weight. Xorn is too new for people to care, Emma doesn't have a following approaching the other characters', Jean and Cyclops have already "died" and therefore another "death" will be viewed in quotation marks anyway. Even a death for Beast only has impact until Queseda is replaced, when he'll inevitably return along with Colossus, Psylocke and Magneto.

There are, after all, licenses to service, cartoons and films to think about etc. Nobody ever stays dead in comics, and there's no real reason to expect that will change now. All we're looking at is a hiatus, let's face it.

Boy in a Suitcase

01:43 / 29.10.02

My guess is Xavier; although Morrison has turned him into the best character in the series, it makes sense that he would off him during the Atari Teenage Riot. He'll probably kill Xavier and then have the students run their own school. It would only be a cheap dramatic trick if anybody else died; Xavier dying clearly fits into GM's ethos & direction for the book.

01:50 / 29.10.02

Hmmmmmmmm....

Emma's affa obvious, assuming one of the 'main' team dies.

I think Jean is being built up toward something beyond 'Riot...'

Actually, I would care if Scott died. He's my favourite superhero. I might even cry. I'm warning you. I nearly did after that Beast trauma in #117. Don't think he will.

Henry is a Kirby creation, like the above two, and thus will not die/stay dead.

Xorn's a possibility; he's still a bit naive, as we saw in #127, and the preview of #135, and we know what happens to naive characters in comics. They die, don't they? I hope not, though, but Morrison has a record of going for his own characters - c.f. Aztek.

Logan - hahahahahahaha - what Ethan said. No chance.

And Charles, who I'm making odds on favourite. Acting up? Check. Magneto dead? Check.

Okay, I realise he's a Kirby one, too, but he's not got the same dynamism behind the concept - although that tartan he used to have over his legs was pretty sweet, and I have a feeling.

Like Flux says, "Are these words from the future?" Twice. Premonitions, much?

Murray Hamhandler

01:55 / 29.10.02

I will go w/the Xavier, as well. Seems that we're heading towards the "death" of Xavier's way w/r/t the school. Would make sense that the symbolic death would be extended literal-wise.

Matthew Fluxington

02:06 / 29.10.02

Going through the past issues, I'm getting the impression that it is Xavier who's going to die - the "words from the future" thing is the what really gets me. I knew from #114 that line was no mere throwaway, and went it came up again when he was confronting the Phoenix in #128, on a panel in which there is a premonition of the destruction of the X-Men, it's just too much. Also, the issue with Magneto makes a lot more sense in where it fits into the narrative, it is Charles' final reckoning with his old foe and sets up the first of the martyr bookends. Also - note how for Charles has been acting more and more like Magneto since after Cassandra outed him. There's no need for this binary Xavier Vs. Magneto morality play anymore - they're the same, really.

I don't think it matters one way or another if future writers reverse whatever it is Grant is setting up. This is about Grant's X-Men, and when Grant leaves, that X-Men story is over, and this death will have great weight within that story. I'd like to think of #114-1?? as being one big graphic novel, and it doesn't particularly bother me what other writers might do afterwards. I'd like to think that people would understand and respect Grant's vision, and I think Grant is working hard to build a future for the series after he's gone, but if people want Magneto and Colossus again, they'll have them. It doesn't need to cheapen what went before, though.

Ethan Van Sciver

06:51 / 29.10.02

S'fun, no?

They can't kill Beak, he's a Van Sciver creation, which surely bears as much weight as a Kirby creation!

The Natural Way

07:34 / 29.10.02

Any big death (Beak excluded) will have a lot of weight for me. I doubt I'll be reading the X Men after Grant's run (and I didn't read it prior to - well, on and off I s'pose), so it'll seem like the first and only time for this 'ere reader. And, you have to remember, that's how Grant will play it. Not to mention the fact that Marvel's editorial policy has changed immensely over the past year - I don't think we can guarantee Jemas and co. will favour the idea of endless resurrections (that way lies mid-nineties Marvel and shit sales). They've already played a large part in shaping Millar's Ultimates, and there's no reason why they shouldn't take an equal interest in X Men.

But that aside, isn't the idea that the emotional impact of death is permanently neutered in the X-verse perilously close to conceding that nothing truly dramatic can EVER take place in these books? And if that's the case, why are you reading?

07:49 / 29.10.02

%Rot%

I'd like to see Beak team up with this guy. Anyone else remember him?

%/Rot%

yawn - thing's buddy

09:12 / 29.10.02

I don’t see Emma dying. But I do see Scott and Jean splitting up for good (whatever that means in the MU).

And Emma and Scott will become an item – the ‘fling’ meme is too obvious and weak. They’ll fall in love.

But I’m not an X-watcher so that’s probably bollocks.

Oh yeah, hopefully Fantomex will kill some established character in an extremely violent manner.

That’d be nice.

09:41 / 29.10.02

While Xavier feels the obvious choice I think there is still a good chance that its jean who is going to go- As long as jean is alive the phenoix will keep coming back to her - She *needs* to stay dead for the good of the cosmos - plus imagine the guilt Scott will feel for betraying her... (though i still think the whole white queen affair thing is a red herring...)

The Natural Way

10:00 / 29.10.02

Yeah, and Jean can be given a heroic, world-saving send off - and, what with the phoenix and all, there'll be the strong inference that she's simply stepped into the light: the things she doesn't need (her body etc) simply cast off like A REALLY SHIT BERET.

Matthew Fluxington

10:47 / 29.10.02

Hmmm. Well, think back to Grant's interviews when he started on NXM - he said something about writing a story that would explore the implications of what would happen if Jean really was a goddess. Hmmm.

11:37 / 29.10.02

But that aside, isn't the idea that the emotional impact of death is permanently neutered in the X-verse perilously close to conceding that nothing truly dramatic can EVER take place in these books?

No. Or, to put it another way, Buffy's died twice but that show's still fun to watch.

11:51 / 29.10.02

A storyline with the Afghan Muslim mutant Dust begins in five issues or so. Perhaps she is involved in the death, or replaces a character who dies in the team. Or something.

The Natural Way

13:01 / 29.10.02

Now, Loz, I know they did it w/ Taggart, but.....

It IS (albeit loosely) Buffy's show.

13:27 / 29.10.02

Jean becomes a distinct possibility, when you think about the goddess/ Phoenix aspect, I suppose - in that she'd die, but not really. Morrison's good at those sort of compromises.

Still going for the prof., though - we've already had his 'Testament', and Jean, for me, makes the most likely successor to his legacy.

13:51 / 29.10.02

Still going for the prof., though - we've already had his 'Testament', and Jean, for me, makes the most likely successor to his legacy.

If it's Xavier, surely he'll return in a few years somehow. They've got movies, cartoons and all sorts of licenses to service. That's the problem here - if an X-Man eventually dies, it'll mean as little to me as when Colossus or Jean or Storm or Cyclops or Xavier or Psylocke or Magneto died. Because we know they're coming back eventually. There's no drama in the death, as has been pointed out. I'd expect Morrison to find something better to hang his drama on.

14:01 / 29.10.02

It's Hank. It has to be Hank. It's OBVIOUSLY Hank. I mean, seriously - he's a popular character to write, but he's not a crucial character. One would generally expect them to spend a considerable amount of time making a character seem genuinely lovely and good before they got killed, and he's not done anything wrong in a long while. It's him. He's the cuddly heart. He's who I'd kill.

The Natural Way

14:19 / 29.10.02

Well, Laurence, when and if, after I put the book down (and I will), some cute little fanperson explains to me that such and such an X person is alive, I'll smile and pat them on the head and KNOW that they are wrong.

And that's enough for me.

But I'm going to have to join everyone else in ignoring all yr naysaying now - it's more fun to care.

Yeah, I thought Beast, too. And then I thought Jean (see above: Dunc and I appear to have reached the same conclusion there). And now I'm thinking Beast again. But Emma's a good candidate (it would be okay not to bring her back etc). Oh God, who knows.....

Our Lady of The Two Towers

14:21 / 29.10.02

As Peter David had Xavier say in the last issue of the original X-Factor "mutant heaven doesn't have pearly gates but revolving doors."

If it's a death that could be reversed at any second, anyone could die. If it's a death along the lines of Magneto, that is supposed to be 'it' for a character, then the inner circle are safe, it's only Xorn or Emma that could snuff it, because they don't have big licenses and won't be in the upcoming film (the Morrison reboot was supposed to be accessible for fans of the first film). I reckon it'll be a swathe of students.

14:40 / 29.10.02

It'd make sense for it to be a student. The faculty, after all, are being incredibly irresponsible WRT safety.

Matthew Fluxington

14:40 / 29.10.02

1. Laurence, for the love of god - it does not matter if a future writer resurrects whoever is going to die. In the context of this story, that character ain't coming back. Very simple. In fact, I wouldn't put it past Marvel to not bring back these characters. It doesn't matter if characters appear in monthly comics for them to be in movies, cartoons, etc. So few people read the monthly comics that the events that transpire in them aren't that important to the larger franchise anyway. It serves the monthly comics better to leave the characters dead, really. It lends those comics more weight. But still - it doesn't matter. The story is the story, and that's what matters. If you're a continuity pedant, then yeah, this is a distraction. If you're interested in the storyline that Grant Morrison is writing, then it's a big deal. The first time Jean Grey died, it was a big deal for several years til it was reversed. I imagine that it could be this way this time around too.

Anyway, have fun with it. It's meant to be fun. Your cynicism is kind of boring.

2. Misgendered Lord - no, it's not a student, though several students probably will die. It's one of the core 7 X-Men (Charles, Scott, Jean, Logan, Henry, Emma, Xorn). Do y'all skip Ethan's posts or something?

3. I'm feeling pretty confident that Emma and Beast are in the clear. There's too much going on in the past year's worth of stories to suggest that it's either Jean or Charles, and I think the clues point to Charles more than Jean.

Think about how much of the past 20 odd issues have been setting Jean up as Charles' successor, and how she filled Charles' role while he was absent for most of the first year. The X-Men don't need Charles anymore, and Grant's been weaning us off of him since he started writing the book. This is a story about youth vs. experience, and I think Charles is the casualty.

And his name is in the title of the story.

14:44 / 29.10.02

when and if, after I put the book down (and I will), some cute little fanperson explains to me that such and such an X person is alive, I'll smile and pat them on the head and KNOW that they are wrong.

Actually, I like this idea of interactive fiction. I'm going to pretend Buffy never came back from the dead a second time, because Season 6 was such crap.

The big X death? Judging from the new version of Wolverine, it's obviously style...

14:50 / 29.10.02

Of course, this is all pure fanboy speculation, and maybe no-one will die. LLB - I think the drama of an open day going dreadfully wrong will suffice, as will the rise of a new and different challenge to the dream, but foreshadowings of death add spice for me, personally. Xavier could die and stay dead for a long while, and we could actually see some kind of advance on the Kirby/Lee-Claremont/Byrne blueprint, 'cos there's no-one else really added much along the way, is there?

I'll feel it's a cop-out if Emma or Xorn die, as I did when we saw the end of Darkstar (which is still enough to distress some fanboys, apparently) rather than someone out of the old X-Force or Factor. Prior to this conversation, I did actually have Emma pinned as victim, but she's a bit interesting just now. And Xavier makes more sense, in light of recent, and forthcoming (via that tasty preview) events.

Superhero, not just mutant, death does indeed have a revolving door policy - but, hopefully, that's changing. We need new icons. Xorn's a good start; the Milligan approach, even better. Comics are changing.

And let's never quote King Fatbeard (recently usurped by Kevin Smith) here again, please. Having seen photos of him, I - in my lookist way - am revolted, and find the image hard to dislodge from my brain.

15:01 / 29.10.02

Laurence, for the love of god - it does not matter if a future writer resurrects whoever is going to die. In the context of this story, that character ain't coming back.

Yeah, but it's a one-time thrill. UXM 137 has no emotional impact anymore, because Jean doesn't die. It's hard to suddenly drum up empathy for whichever character gets it, because these characters have all died multiple times anyway. It's not cynicism to say that. Hell, Scott died within just the last few years. Claremont has already proposed stories to bring back Colossus and Psylocke (and though Queseda has said no, his successor may say yes). Comics are a business, and killing off popular characters is a canny business move. Telegraphing the death in advance makes it a sales gimmick ... and those sales will spike again with the inevitable Return of X storyline in five years.

Anyway, it'll be fun to see who dies, and it'll be fun to see how they return.

It doesn't matter if characters appear in monthly comics for them to be in movies, cartoons, etc.

I totally agree ... though Marvel doesn't seem to. Wasn't their entire justification for the line's reboot and the Ultimate version that the monthlies had strayed too far from movie territory? Weren't the Spider-Man writers told to drop the ongoing Mary Jane storyline to avoid further distancing themselves from the film?

If you're a continuity pedant, then yeah, this is a distraction.

Who isn't a continuity pedant? I'm always amused by this. I suppose you mean to say is that X-Men continuity doesn't carry the same value as, say, that of The Invisibles or The West Wing.

Matthew Fluxington

15:18 / 29.10.02

To put on my Continuity Pedant hat, I really want to point out again that Charles Xavier has never truly died in the main continuity - he's been taken out of the picture, he's been believed dead, but never actually dead. It was made obvious and clear in the very issue Cyclops "died" that he was not dead at all, and that he would be back before too long - he was only believed dead by his teammates. I would say that is different.

The X-Men who have died to date are:

Jean Grey (as the Phoenix)
Thunderbird
Colossus
Psylocke (though her death was made to be intentionally vague)
Magneto
Madelyne Pryor
Havok (sort of kind of maybe not anymore)
Longshot (off-page, mentioned in passing)

plus, Magik and Cypher. I'm not clear on what happened to Rachel Summers after Excalibur.

Do none of you trust Ethan, by the way? He does know the story in advance, after all...

The Natural Way

15:24 / 29.10.02

It won't be fun to see how they return, because I won't be reading.

And that's the point.

Again.

Another season 6 naysayer.....where will it end?

15:51 / 29.10.02

To put on my Continuity Pedant hat, I really want to point out again that Charles Xavier has never truly died in the main continuity - he's been taken out of the picture, he's been believed dead, but never actually dead.

Yeah, but that's kind of my point. Whoever dies this time will, looking back after their inevitable ressurection, only been believed dead. Just like that first Chuck death, Jean's and so forth.

Also worth mentioning, perhaps:

Storm's died four times.
Wolverine's died twice.
Dazzler's died twice.
Longshot's died twice.
Colossus has died three times.
Psylocke has died three times.

God, I could go on. Even Maddy died twice. Havok's died four times now, I think.

16:12 / 29.10.02

I read the 'Dark Phoenix' saga in tpb format, long after Jean was resurrected - I'm 23 now, so I couldn't exactly have read it first time round.

It was and is the finest X-Men story I read pre-Morrison, although 'From the Ashes' (featuring a non-resurrection) was pretty fantastico. So, the impact of he original story was, for me, not especially diluted.

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