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Underground > Comic Books >

New X-Men #136

  
  

Page: 12(3)4567

 
 
Quireboy
22:59 / 16.01.03
Given Xorn's actions it rather makes his earlier comment - "I cannot tell when you are trying to be funny or when you are trying to be cruel" - rather worrying. He's been locked up for 50 years, so isn't terribly experienced in the relationship department. maybe this is Grant's point - here we have a character with very strong ideals - that have never been put to the test. On the face of it they're worthy ideals, but also unrealistic and herein lies the danger - Xorn will be disappointed that people don't live up to his expectations - and could judge them harshly because of that. He's a calm, quiet psycho.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:17 / 16.01.03
Another great post by the Quireboy.

As for the Cuckoos, yes they're wary of Quentin, but they're also preoccupied with Emma and Scott - they know exactly what's going on. (Was it just co-incidence their hair looked like Jean's in the last issue?)

I noticed this too - in fact, when I first read it, I thought Henry's remark about seeing a hairstyle everywhere was a reference to their hair, but of course the next line is a reference to Quire's haircut. However, given that this is Morrison and Quitely, it's probably not a coincidence that it is on the same panel as the Cuckoos having Jean's hairstyle. I can't imagine that the Cuckoos approve of Emma's relationship with Scott, they are very attached to Emma and probably quite possessive. They're also smart enough to be afraid of Jean.

As for Xorn - I think Quireboy's right about his strong idealism being rarely put to any kind of test, and his episode in the woods with the U-Men showing a certain intolerance on his part. He definitely did not have to kill those U-Men, after all. Xorn goes from New Testement God to Old Testement God rather quickly. I don't think Xorn is a 'psycho', or a bad person - I would be very disappointed if he was ever made to be a villain, at least so long as Wolverine is still considered a good guy. I think Xorn is a person who is very dangerous and needs to learn just as much as his students do - he's being alternately naive and reckless, and he is in no position to be reckless given his power. However, so long as Angel keeps his secret, the whole school remains under the impression that he is harmless, gentle, hippy-ish, spiritually enlightened Xorn; just as the audience believed he was prior to this issue.

I think the person in this thread who thought Angel's lesson was to gain respect from and in return give respect for her teachers was pretty right on, that seems to be it basically.
 
 
LDones
23:59 / 16.01.03
Wow. Holy sh*t.

Just finished the issue, and man, am I impressed. Xorn is either the coolest or scariest person in super-hero comics today. I don't think of him as morally naieve - I think he's sharper than he seems, and certainly more world-wise than one might be led to believe from his living in a hole for the majority of his human life - I mean, how long was he a star before teleporting himself into that small boy's head?

Though I do have to admit - At first I didn't think oddly of Xorn's actions - the U-Men would have settled at nothing less than the murder of those children, and Xorn's severity of action seems reasonable to me in that light, they're serial murderers, the lot of them - It doesn't seem like Old Testament Judgement on Those Who Would Oppose Him to me, but juxtaposed with his previous extreme pacifism, it comes off a bit sinister - And makes me wonder why that star ended up inside that child's head.

I think the lessons he intended for the children are all very sharp, valuable. I also wonder - did Xorn only kill the U-Men for Angel's 'benefit'? We've seen Xorn with a very strong consideration for the young thus far (the young boy/creature from NXM #127), but not necessarily the grown (he absorbed the hell out of the guy torturing him & Scott in the Imperial arc) - maybe he sees something extraordinary in Angel - something that warranted his 'display', as it were, although that's still a bit creepy - Even Jean and the Phoenix didn't kill the U-Men assaulting the school. I love Xorn, however - I've seen no reason to not give his character the moral benefit of the doubt, but MAN - what a moment.

The U-Men and all of the 3rd Species ilk really get the ass-end of the stick in this comic - Poor, dumb bastards.

I LOVE that final page - it's perfect. The Open Day globe crashing down when Emma and the girls see Quentin - Emma looking to Henry in alarm when the banner comes down - The single, final half-panel image of Quentin's face twisted into a grotesque yell, screaming RIIIIOT! Impeccable. The pace in this issue is amazing.

My anticipation for the next issue is potentially unhealthy.
 
 
Seth
00:30 / 17.01.03
Poor U-Man. He saved all his money. I love the way that the issue made me feel sorry for such a nutter.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
02:39 / 17.01.03
I really don't think that the star in Xorn is or was something separate from him - the star is his mutation, his brain became a star, you see? It didn't teleport into his head, the star is him.
 
 
LDones
04:56 / 17.01.03
Flux: Some of my own wonderings about Xorn have revolved around wether he was truly a mutant - Wether he was a conscious, intelligent star on earth that accidentally overrode the consciousness of a small Chinese boy, or wether it was somehow a dormant part of him that erupted.

Actually, now I see that Grant points to the latter in the text of the Annual: "Two days after he reached puberty, his brain was incinerated by a microscopic sun. He survived..." "...So they built an iron prison around him."

I stand corrected, or rather, educated...
 
 
DaveBCooper
09:03 / 17.01.03
Enjoyed this issue, especially the shift to the Special Class, as I think Xorn’s an interesting character.

Odd items that made me smile : aren’t the Omega Gang driving the A-Team’s van, to all intents and purposes ? And that U-Man’s line about the Discovery Channel reminds me of that Bloodhound Gang song…

As for Quire, I’ve got to be honest and admit I’m a bit disappointed in the way this character’s panned out; despite lines like ‘what would happen if one of us had a dream you didn’t like, professor?’, QQ hasn’t actually turned out to be motivated by a dream and/or rationale that makes him like the anti-Xavier. I guess in part this is because the killing, Kick-taking and generally rather adolescent nature of his ‘arguments’ fairly swiftly delineated him as ‘a villain’, and he doesn’t actually have a dream or goal as such, apart from the rather unworkable one of killing all humans because some of them killed someone he cared about… in this way, isn’t he more like the mutant version of Bolivar Trask (think I’ve got that right– chap who designed the Sentinels ? Didn’t he do so because his wife was killed by a mutant or something)?

Anyway, whilst yes, he does indeed fill the ‘ideological void’ after the death of Magneto, I think it’d be more interesting to see someone of Xavier’s intelligence and focus with a different (though equally peaceful) dream about mutant-human relations, and how that would relate to the X-Men. Shame that instead QQ’s more obviously a ‘baddie’ – and interesting that we’ve seen this with most of the challenges the X-Men have faced in Grant’s run (Fantomex being perhaps the only real exception), when so much of Grant’s work in recent years has suggested that the good-bad us-them divisions can blur.

And was it just me, or would the speech bubble on the last panel have been better placed below QQ’s face, as opposed to above ? Just a notion.

DBC
 
 
The Natural Way
09:27 / 17.01.03
I think all this worry surrounding Xorn, well...I'm not sure yet, but something about it doesn't quite ring true. I don't think I agree with this "playing God" stuff, Quire. I'm not sure it's quite like that. And I think the girls had their hair up because they were going to a posh do - nothing to do with Jean.

Pranny pointed out something nice about No Girl: she's "purely conceptual", right? In many ways, however, she's the gelling agent in the group - a kind of cypher for the Special Class's alienation. The absence - something they can all relate to. When Xorn finds the "correct frequency", it's an emotional one, and that's why he couldn't access it before.

Mmmm, a very warm episode indeed.
 
 
The Natural Way
09:46 / 17.01.03
Oh, BTW, the Xorn stuff above: don't get me wrong - I do think he's dangerous - but I think the real danger's going to come from another direction.
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
10:38 / 17.01.03
I don't know why, Runce, but the way you just explained No-Girl just made that whole sequence even MORE wonderful (if that was at all possible). You spelled out a lot of the things that i had sort of gleaned peripherally but now, golly. The way Xorn quantifies the real world and people's emotions is one of Grant's most intriguing character's traits.
 
 
The Natural Way
12:39 / 17.01.03
Thank Pranny. I was just jamming on his ideas. Yeah, it IS more moving, isn't it?
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
13:21 / 17.01.03
Right, that is a good observation, and it does make the scene more warm and tingly.

See, reading this as a group, as a team endeavor really helps - without each other, it is only a comic book. With us, it becomes an adventure!
 
 
The Natural Way
13:26 / 17.01.03
Flux=Xorn
 
 
Aertho
13:49 / 17.01.03
Yeah, I'm the guy that originally called Beak the Special Class Cyclops. Basilisk=Iceman, Dummy=Angel, Ernst/Martha=Beast, Angel=Phoenix. It was a smart guess, and I'm glad it proved so far so good. Stay tuned! I think the Special Class needs X-Shirts.

The relationship of Xorn's godlike destruction in this way reminds me of an Ostrander Firestorm issue that stated that: "one cannot destroy anything in anger, only in sorrow." Kinda zen, but true in defence of Xorn's actions.

And I think there's more to Xorn's exchange with Angel than we've really discussed. I think it's probably one of the most significant ones in the series thus far. I think it's more than just respect for and from the teachers. I think there's a lot to do with intimacy, like someone else said, but not the kind Scott and Emma are sharing. I think Angel needed to learn a kind of secret knowledge from some "other". She may have needed to see Xorn at his darkest to really see him also at his most light, y'know? Xorn is trusting her with this understanding of necessity and duality, and it's given as a gift. He now represents awesome power and control, and Angel owns that knowledge, giving her a kind of self-worth and importance.

That leads me to wonder whether Xorn and Angel's exchange had taken place in some manner between their first class analogs, Charles and Jean. Not that Jean suffers in the way that Angel does, but that Charles may have trusted Jean with some telepathic truths.
 
 
yawn - thing's buddy
14:23 / 17.01.03
still not read it.

Egomania took priority.

'Gods are self referential idea structures which, on encountering a certain level of complexity, become self aware.'

And I've got a feeling I'm going to really like the latest Ultimates.

It looks like a Moonlighting episode after you'd got used to the characters and the strange plot deviations.

Or even some of the mid season Twin Peaks (first series).

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Don't give up (because you still have friends)

Hi!

(Fuck the Abstract and rock the Gasbah(yes Gasbah, the city in Rogue Trooper - it wasn't a typo alright now don't wind me up - did you call ma cousin a prick?)

IIIIIUUUUUUUUU
 
 
Regrettable Juvenilia
14:41 / 17.01.03
Yeah, I love the fact that we don't actually get to see No Girl or anything naff like that at the end of the scene. You could even read it as Xorn just pretending (and if she's conceptual, what's the difference?), although I like runce's take even more. When GM gets dialogue right, he sure has a way with words: "searching for you in all the wrong frequencies" - it's like something out of an indie pop song!

So much to say about this issue.

My main complaint about #135 was a lack of moral ambiguity - I'd assumed that the focus of 'Riot' would be the Omega Gang, and they seemed to be too much the obvious bad guys. But! Here we get moral ambiguity in spades, and the shift of focus to the Special Class really pays off. It's partly the fact that we've known Beak and Angel for so long - I also complained that Quentin hadn't been given enough history, but I see now that this isn't his story, not in the way I'd originally thought. And Xorn... fucking Xorn.

On the one hand, as has been said, the U-Men are very bad people indeed - Morrison's tendency to play them as slightly clownish may sometimes obscure (deliberately, I'm sure) that these are people who kill and mutilate children. Quentin's completely right about them. And yet... where does defending yourself from such people and bringing them to justie (human or "mutant justice") stop, and becoming a vigilante start? Xorn has done something quite questionable now, and the way that scene is handled leaves you pretty much in the dark about where this may lead... It *is* creepy, and it also makes me wonder - who's he hiding this from? What would Xavier think about him killing (presumably) those U-Men, especially if the whole thing was a set-up (incidentally, why does the helicopter turn up when it does - did Xorn just page Scot, or was he in on it too?) - mind you, Xavier's a bit dodgy himself, isn't he... And there's the question of influence/example - okay, the Special Class learn to defend themselves, but something about that panel of Beak smashing the rock down... And if Angel now respects Xorn, it's because he's really good at killing people, right? As do we. The warrior thing - defender of the innocent, sure, but also someone who's good at violence... Lines blurring, grey morality... Yeah.

Basically I haven't seen this question - the question of violence, and when self-defense and stopping the bad guys because retribution and blood-lust - I haven't seen it handled so well since Angel Series 2. And it's all very Buffytastic this issue. I've even started rethinking my objections to some aspects of Quire's presentation, because it occurs to me that I do appreciate villains in tv shows like that without necessarily objecting to the way they resemble people I know and seem to be demonising traits I value (Spike, Faith, etc). But I digress.

Oh, and Xavier "taking his eye off the ball" is dead right. Look how shiny his suit is, and the limo... Dear me, he's got complacent. And now he's fooked.

Beak/Quentin - Beak/Scot parallels - definitely there in this one, I think. Notice how both Beak and Quentin turn down sex in the last 2 issues (is it reading in too much to contrast that with Scot's adult, lusty indulgences? - mmm, sweaty mind sex). If we get a showdown between the two of them I will be a very, very happy bunny.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
14:52 / 17.01.03
(incidentally, why does the helicopter turn up when it does - did Xorn just page Scot, or was he in on it too?)

Ernst: "...and Martha says she sent a mind alarm to Miss Frost at the school."
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
15:01 / 17.01.03
"Oh, and Xavier "taking his eye off the ball" is dead right. Look how shiny his suit is, and the limo... Dear me, he's got complacent. And now he's fooked."

I think it's interestiong that both Morrison and Millar's Xaviers got blindsided in basicly the same way. Pride goeth before fall and all that.

This was a fantastic issue, most of my observations have been made by others on here, but I just had to chime in. Xorn is the king of badass and so far no one is actiong from a position of true moral superiority. Everyone's weaknesses and blindspots are at play in this arc. Except possibly Jean. Just what is she up to in Hong Kong? And poor Scott, this is the 2nd time he's been psi-seduced. Poor boy just wants someone in his head, I think.

And all the Xorn/Star talk has me sketching out ideas for X-Men as Major Arcana stuff here at work. Although that might just be due to reading the EGOMANIA interview right after this ish.
 
 
MJ-12
16:38 / 17.01.03
Did Xorn actually kill the U-men, or just incapacitate them? He certainly appears to have killed their van, but I don't seem to be seeing charred bodies or anything else that indicates that they're dead.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
16:41 / 17.01.03
Nitpicky stuff -

Quentin's dialogue baloons on the last page are coming out of the megaphone, not his mouth. That's why it's in bold and in the sharp-edge baloons.

Also - I'm willing to suspend my disbelief that Quentin was able to find the resources on such short notice to build the helmet for Xavier, and that Magneto's designs were available to him in the first place; but ummmmm...what exactly is going to stop Xavier from just taking the helmet off since both of his hands are free?
 
 
Yotsuba & Benjamin!
18:59 / 17.01.03
The blood on the cover of the next ish would seem to imply that it's clamped on somehow, extremely painfully too.

I could seem him building it in the X-Labs they uncovered while the Prof was unconscious. I'm sure we'll find out. Grant actually seems to be really attentive to those sorts of loose threads and details.
 
 
kid coagulant
19:52 / 17.01.03
Quire's a smart kid. Didn't he construct some sort of floaty device for Martha the Disembodied Brain? I'd think a super tight thought blocking helmet would be a snap for a kid like that.

I've been wondering about those U-men, as well. Like the one Beak broke open w/ that huge rock. If he was alive, was he just left in the woods there? Did they call the cops? Does the Xavier Institute have a dungeon/holding facility? Were the U-men allowed to receive medical attention?
 
 
LDones
20:49 / 17.01.03
In re: Charles behaving crippled while wearing the helmet: I could imagine that he MIGHT be - Being cut off from your telepathic/empathic abilities would probably be greatly disorienting, particularly for a guy of his power.

I imagine there may also be some kind of echo-chamber effect inside the helmet, bouncing his powerful thoughts around inside his own head without any dissipation or chance for them to 'escape' - Which may also account for the bleeding on the cover of next ish.

Or they could've just stapled it to his frontal lobes. With a stapler.
 
 
Imaginary Mongoose Solutions
20:56 / 17.01.03
"Did Xorn actually kill the U-men, or just incapacitate them? He certainly appears to have killed their van, but I don't seem to be seeing charred bodies or anything else that indicates that they're dead."

There certianly seems to be a leg that's missing a body in that panel.
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
21:04 / 17.01.03
Maybe Xorn just yanked all of their legs off.
 
 
Seth
21:14 / 17.01.03
Here's exp hoping that Xavier takes kick and overloads the helmet.
 
 
LDones
22:35 / 17.01.03
Oooo, now that'd be a sticky situation, wouldn't it? What kind of toll would that take?

Xavier: "DRUGS=VICTORY, kids, now get cracking!"
Beak would form a hardcore band in protest - they'd become famous, sell out, and he'd become the new Dazzler in yet another pop-nightmare rehash of Ziggy Stardust.
 
 
Mr Tricks
22:51 / 17.01.03
Xorn:
I've been search everywhere for what that word would mean in Chinese... The closest I've found is Xian which translates to "Brilliant"

anyone else try this?

ON the death of U-men:
While Xorns seems to have asked for it to be his & Angel's little secret, I'm sure Scott noticed the smoke rising from the wreakage. I think the point is that Xorn believes Angel needs to feel trusted. With the constant chip on her shoulder & earlier treatment/upbringing she's probably got some serious esteme issues. The Fact that someone SOOO obviously powerful would trust her not to "blab" to her classmates,must give her some measure of self-esteme.

Killing:
With Wolverine as their gym teacher... the Xavier institute has some mutant ideas about life & death. So while they may not like the idea of Xorn killing the U-men... they must differ to the danger of the situation and the need to keep the kids out of harms way. Now if it's revealed that XORN DID know of the U-men's pressance then that raises a whole other set of ethical questions...
Would this be Xorn's spin on the Danger room?

BEAK:
I think Beak killed that U-man. He;s probably in serious denile about it, or maybe just said that to ease the concern of ernst and martha thinking to himself that he's making "one of those hard decisions" an X-man must at times make.

I'm cerain the X-men have holding facilities... or could improvise with a danger room program anyway. I was curious about the Helecopter though, it must be a disposable little thing as I figure by now they would have antigravity technology. And why did scott land it on the front lawn? his mind must have been elsewhere . . .
 
 
Matthew Fluxington
23:24 / 17.01.03
One of my best friends speaks fluent Chinese and is very well learned about China, its language, and its history; and she tells me that Xorn is not a Chinese name or word in any dialect that she is aware of. It's just a made up name, really.
 
 
Eskay Uno
04:30 / 18.01.03
Beak and Xorn didn't kill anybody, way I see it. Just knocked those U-Men dudes out cold. Does Xorn necessarily have to be a killer to be so bad-ass? I don't think so. The fact that he can keep his lethal explosive powers under control and dedicate his life to peace and learning makes him even more badass than wiping out a couple of thugs, which any x-person coulda done. And if Beak is Cyclops, etc. Xorn is definitely Prof. X. More Xorn!
 
 
Jack Denfeld
05:21 / 18.01.03
I thought it was pretty obvious that Xorn killed those men. Or else that creepy shhhhh thing with the finger wouldn't have been effective. The only question I had was if Beak killed, which I'm starting to doubt. Maybe those things are like big football helmets.
 
 
Eskay Uno
07:26 / 18.01.03
How about this: Xorn set up the whole encounter with the U-Men, knowing the kids would step up and face the challenge. It was the lesson he set up as their teacher. He knew the baddies were there, he knew the kids could handle it, and he knew they'd come out of it all stronger and smarter. And now Angel knows too, but the lesson wouldn't be as effective for the others if they knew, that's why he gives Angel the "shhh". Maybe the whole thing merely looks creepier and more sinister than it actually is. If those bodies were incinerated or mutilated I might think differntly, but really they just look out cold to me. I guess I need more evidence before I believe Xorn is a merciless, cold killer.
 
 
Jack Denfeld
07:31 / 18.01.03
I dont have the comic on hand. But go back and check those panels. Someone said they saw a severed leg, which leads one to believ the U-Men were killed.
 
 
LDones
08:28 / 18.01.03
I don't doubt Xorn had at least an idea that there were some hostile people out in those woods - And I don't think it's endangering the children's lives when your head is a tiny star that can apparently do just about any damn thing it wants. I don't think anyone was saying that Xorn is cold-blooded, it's just alarming seeing him blow up a van and trash a bunch of guys considering his past behavior.

And, to kick this particular horse again, I don't know that he killed anyone after looking through the issue a third time - Here's a link to the panel in question.

I don't see any wounds on the U-Men, though all of their air-hoses have been disconnected - None of their bodies are too contorted, and the leg by Xorn's own right leg presumably belongs to a U-Man directly in front of him (out of our sight).

Though Xorn is still scary - I tremble at his asskicking abilities. And I wonder what the hell's going to happen when Jean gets back and starts kicking some ass of her own.
 
 
Quireboy
09:30 / 18.01.03
True the U-Men haven't been burnt to a crisp but I really came away from that panel thinking he's killed them. We don't even know the full scope of his power- maybe he used gravity to crush their hearts? It was surely meant to be compared with Jean's earlier defeat of the U-Men - she also blew up their truck but let them escape, albeit with their dignity in tatters.

Yes, I thought Xorn was set up as the Prof X of the special class. That's another reason why I think he set up the situation - or at least allowed it to happen - Xavier did that many times with his original students.

Re. Xorn and Jean - he's got a star in his head - and the Phoenix devoured stars. I wonder if anything should be read into that? It suggests she's the only one cappable of stopping him if it comes to that.

Given that the Cuckoos clearly know Emma and Scott are doing the psychic slamdance isn't it likely QQ, with his see through mind, will discover this also - and maybe use that against Jean. of course, she can't go all out against the Omega Gang when they've got Charles hostage - and who knows what Quentin comes up with in those secret X-labs...

Now Tattoo mentions she can smell Kick in the labs - is this just some Kick that Beast has been testing, or could it be possible that one of the teachers is involved in making it?
 
  

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